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12:04 AM
Also, @Gilles I've nominated you :)
12:21 AM
@Zizouz212 Three users had their accounts deleted? News to me.
When did it happen?
^ was for @ArtOfCode
@Zizouz212 I think our current site is working fine. I think the open info questions are already on topic.
@curiousdannii why u downvote
@TrevorClarke Don't accuse anyone of downvoting, it is rude across all SE sites
your right
I just assumed.. That was wrong
@curiousdannii do you forgive me? :-(
12:23 AM
Well you're right, I did downvote you, and I explained why in my question to you.
But the point is I have contributed to the growth
of the site
Which is irrelevant for mods
so then why are you judging me based on that
Because you nominated yourself
@Zizouz212 look I finished the photography page trevorc.ca/photography.php
@curiousdannii what do you mean
12:26 AM
You show the behaviour of a valuable contributor to the site
But I personally think that mods should be more careful when they post
self nominations are encouraged
12:40 AM
@Mnementh Your answer is good, the question is not.
@curiousdannii how long have you been on SE
@TrevorClarke 1 year 9 month according to his Christianity account
1:09 AM
Ouch, already -2 votes against my self-nomination.
1:21 AM
If that's news, then it's leading us to something dangerous
@Zizouz212 Is this a reply to me saying that I didn't know 3 users deleted their accounts? When did they do so? Must've been very early in the beta
Actually, it wasn't early in the beta, they had placed many votes, and many posts...
It was quite sometime after
@Zizouz212 Well when did it happen?
Where are their posts now?
I can't say exactly when
Nor do I now believe I should reveal their identities
@Zizouz212 You already did in chat didn't you
1:24 AM
I could've, but now I don't think I want to
Do you at least have a link to the meta arguments over it
Meta arguments?
Surely they made lots of noise on meta before deleting their accounts
They have, and the posts have likely been deleted, but I won't link you to them because I don't want to reveal their identities now.
Did their posts in the main site get deleted too?
Ragequitting isn't allowed
We may need to get some CM's involved to undelete their posts
1:27 AM
Actually, no
Are we still talking about Bikeshed guy (Carpetsmoker) and Tichodroma?
So only their meta posts were deleted?
There meta posts weren't deleted, but there are more users.
So which posts were deleted?
For the last time, I won't reveal it
If their accounts are deleted then their posts will just say user11224
they're anonymous
1:29 AM
Perhaps, but perhaps not
I don't understand why you're being so disagreeable
If we want to make this a welcoming site then we need to know why those who left felt unwelcome!
I believe I've tried with that
@Zizouz212 Links please
I've looked through every question in Meta, and I haven't seen any big fights about neutrality
Is it @user114?
@user114 is Tichodroma, if anyone is wondering. He does have some posts in Meta, but I can't really see why he wanted to delete his account
Not fights, you need to look at them carefully. People are going to retain their calm and professionalism - they're on the internet after all
I haven't even seen any big arguments
Everyone seems to think that the site needs to have both OSI, FSF and CC
Tichodroma was just insisting that it be in the site name too
1:43 AM
I wouldn't be so sure actually
I have large respect for Tichodroma. He was willing to actively voice his concerns, and while I disagreed with a lot that he had, he helped the community get a bigger picture of what we needed
Maybe there was more disagreement really early on, but from a couple of days in it seems like the scope has been pretty open (and pretty consistent)
5 hours later…
6:55 AM
Well I missed all of that. @curiousdannii @Zizouz212 any remaining issues I can help with?
1 hour later…
8:09 AM
@ArtOfCode Not really. I still feel like the claims of big infighting on this site have been exaggerated, but we're all agreed that we want the scope and site to be welcoming to all
Now if you could come up with a magical new term for FLOSSetc that everyone will love that will help :P
I wonder if we should go more in the direction of "Ask Different"... have a title that has no direct connection to the topic
@curiousdannii I tend to agree. I haven't seen any major fighting, though I have noted several smaller issues which could have done with prompter resolution.
How about LICENSE.txt as a title? :P
Nice idea... But there are always problems: that implies we're about licenses ;)
Name might have to be an ongoing debate
Q: free-software, fsf, free-software-definition and other associated tags

curiousdanniiFor both the FSF and OSI we have a few set of related tags: free-software, fsf, free-software-definition osi, open-source-definition I created the two -definition tags, as I thought they were more appropriate for questions concerning the definitions than the straight fsf and osi tags, which c...

Yeah I think it always will be debated, but if someone came up with a brilliant alternative before we left private beta that would be awesome
8:24 AM
How about using a word that expresses something that is true for all licenses we cover? Like ShareAlike (just a raw half-baked idea)
or PullRequest
Yeah, I was wondering if "Libre" would work as a title
or Fork
Share alike of course only works for half the licenses, not the permissive ones
you're right!
The Pirate Bay uses the term Kopimi... maybe "Copy Me" or "Fork Me" could work as titles
"Free & Open"
8:40 AM
Hmmm... All possibles but none I'd actually go with...
I'm going to open a brainstorming post in Meta
8:54 AM
Q: Alternative site name brainstorming

curiousdanniiSince there are still many people unsatisfied with the current site name, I thought it would be good to have a centralised place for some brainstorming. If you have any ideas, please post them below! And please vote up and down the options you like/dislike. This is not the place to argue for any...

Downside of making the post is now I can't vote on any options!
@curiousdannii add a note to the posts you want to vote on saying your vote.
9:11 AM
@ArtOfCode It's okay, my creation of the posts is sign enough that I like them. I'd be happy with any of the ones I suggested then.
9:26 AM
I want to ask a question about patents and how they relate to open source but I want to avoid the link to software patents
9:43 AM
@ratchetfreak give it a go :)
10:41 AM
@ArtOfCode I gave it a go...
2 hours later…
12:31 PM
@ArtOfCode Argh. Sorry for starting an edit war.
12:46 PM
@Zizouz212 Please explain your last edit on opensource.stackexchange.com/posts/807/revisions
Did you read the question?
> Maybe a solution could be a translation platform with "points", where people would earn points for good translations, and give their points as "bounty" to the project+language of their choice?
And perhaps you can explain why you think this question isn't a license recommendation question? opensource.stackexchange.com/posts/854/revisions
And you might as well justify this one... opensource.stackexchange.com/posts/826/revisions
1:23 PM
there is talk about making license questions off topic on progs.SE and directing people to open source for them.
at least once we are a stable beta
1:50 PM
@curiousdannii No worries, we just don't want edits to become a contentious issue that overshadows more important things.
@curiousdannii The first link you've given: I'd agree with you there, was justified. I've rolled back. The others, however, I'd uphold.
854 (the second link) was originally based on a misconception. Having cleared that up in comments, the remaining issue was a more general licensing issue.
And the final link, 826, definitely has to do with collaboration.
@ratchetfreak Are you involved in that?
I keep an ear out on their chatroom
Well I'm OK with them directing those over here, as long as they don't completely eclipse our other questions.
they are currently cleaning up off topic questions by tag and licensing came up and one of their mods suggested it
in The Whiteboard, 34 mins ago, by Thomas Owens
I figure if at least Open Source has a strong beta and wouldn't mind being called out in our Help Center, then I would say we propose making all licensing questions off-topic and direct people there (like how we direct people to The Workplace or Stack Overflow for certain questions). Then, we can historical lock a bunch of old questions because that whole thing becomes not confusing.
@ratchetfreak Thanks. I'll jump over there
1:56 PM
Afternoon :)
@ArtOfCode it won't happen until we are public beta at least though
I took the gamification tag out because it was looking for an external platform that was ramified with other contributors: the gamification was not specific to the open source project
It was about encouraging translations, but the op was asking for an external gamified translation platform
That's why I took that tag out
@Zizouz212 Have another read of the last paragraph. He's looking to see whether gamification could be a solution
> here are tens of translation platforms with the same features as the one we are using, so if your answer is to suggest another one, please make sure to explain how it is different, thanks! Maybe a solution could be a translation platform with "points", where people would earn points for good translations, and give their points as "bounty" to the project+language of their choice?
There's that, but his app is an android app
That's the target application, and here we're looking for a platform that will help. Gamification is not related to the open source platform, but rather this external platform that will help the project
He's not developing that external translation platform, but rather the android app
@Zizouz212 Good point, but since he's asking about it I think we err on the side of the OP.
2:01 PM
Perhaps, but the OP is just asking for a translation platform. That's the baseline
It doesn't matter if it's gamified or not, he's just looking for a platform
Yes, but he's relating it to gamification, so the tag has merit. I think in controversial tagging issues the OP should be given BOD to their tags.
That tag wasn't actually added by the author
Let me have a dig
into the history
like an archaeological dig xD
2:05 PM
the author did provide precious little detail on the actual translation process
Oh lol
All I see is that the author is trying to get his app translated. He's asking for various translation platforms to do this
Because the author is trying to encourage it, he's suggesting the idea of a gamified translation platform
But there is no gamification in his main android app
the question title "How can I encourage translations for my app?" is quite matching, I think
there is no proof yet that there is any problem with that platform
This is the revision it was added. The paragraph about the gamification was added by the OP, the editor (wonder who that might be...) added a relevant tag.
(except that the author made it appear as if they were pushing that platform, at first)
@MichaelSchumacher So are you suggesting the tag fits, or would be better not there?
2:07 PM
well, gamification has been mentioned, and is mentioned in the current revision of the question, iirc
I think that this is not the actual issue and won't help, but this is just my opinion
Here's an analogy: I'm not going to give the tag popcorn to my question because I'm looking for a platform to help me do math. Perhaps, to encourage: it offers popcorn? It doesn't make much sense
I've outline my view - and tried to phrse it as objective as possible - in my answer
Well. Controversial tag edit, so here's a controversial solution: how about we all stop appeasing our sense of duty, stop arguing about what's right when it's perfectly good enough, and leave it alone?
lol sure :)
I think that the question has uncovered an issue with how the author advertizes the translations of the app - gamifying the translation and advertizing that might solve this. actually
but it certainly does not meet a min-max approach
2:10 PM
XKCD has something for every situation...
Yep :)
In fact, I just found this one, which I didn't know existed...
lol... tomatoes?
Lol, this is pretty good too: xkcd.com/389
I'm just scrolling through them all now :)
Same :D
2:23 PM
Ziz why did u retract ur nomination
@Zizouz212 ^
Woah why indeed
@Zizouz212 Why oh why have you deleted your nomination?
Well, I prefer not to say
People seem to hate me tho
@Zizouz212 If it's because curiousdannii's bugging you about things, don't worry. One user matters not. Yes, you had some downvotes, but you also had more upvotes than most, and I think you'd be a good mod.
@TrevorClarke You do also have 3 upvotes, so you're not doing terribly
It's not just that, it's also do I want to moderate when I'm not feeling 100% respected?
2:29 PM
Yeah i guess
Oh come on man. Welcome to the Internet, where everyone is hated on.
Well yes, but still
@Zizouz212 there's a difference between being liked and being respected
No, my experience with other betas has been incredibly different then this
2:30 PM
Why a did u remove ur nomination
Here there's been more activity, but I've also started to see that people aren't wary that they are on the internet, and then there are the disputes between users and such
I'm not 100% respected. Anywhere. Including here. There are probably plenty of people here I've disagreed with and they've not respected me or my opinions, but I'm not going to let them get in my way. I can do a good job anyway, and so can you.
10 messages moved from Chatbot Dev
(point, thanks)
@Zizouz212 floss is a topic a lot of people have strong opinions on
we're still trying to figure things out
2:32 PM
Seriously, opinion: you don't need 100% respect to be a mod. People are going to hate you whatever you do, just ignore them. If some of the top users on the site think you'd make a good mod, you probably will - and there are plenty of top users rooting for you here.
I'm not denying that, but I feel like something isn't right here
So come and help make it right. I can't moderate on my own! D:
Thing is, I don't know what's not right
I'm at -2
I would love to help u @ArtOfCode but it seems people don't like me... I have tried my best
2:35 PM
Again, come help me work it out.
@Zizouz212 Allow me to make this a point: are you going to undelete that nomination?
@TrevorClarke To be honest, I think you would be a good mod as well. You're very calm about things, and even though you're looking new to this site, you'd be good in the tasks of a moderator
@ArtOfCode I don't think I'll undelete it, I think I'm just going to think it over
In that case...
@Zizouz212 thanks... I fear other people don't think the same @ArtOfCode
Me? No, I'd be happy to see you as a mod, you'd be a great help.
No problem
Honestly, don't let other people bug you cause you do something others don't like
2:40 PM
How many people downvoted
You're +2/-4
@TrevorClarke check that again
Thanks guys
3:20 PM
How long do u think it will be before they make a decision?
@TrevorClarke It won't be until we go public, at least. Hopefully we don't have a third week of private, which would mean we go public tomorrow or Wednesday, but we've just got to wait and see. They might also take longer about it to see if things settle.
In fact, it would likely be a good idea to ask that on meta now
3:43 PM
@Zizouz212 Ask what?
What's left to go public?
Aye, could do
4:29 PM
@Zizouz212 Did you delete you self nomination?
@michaelpri Yep - I've since re-nominated him :)
Hmm why did he delete it?
Good question:
2 hours ago, by Zizouz212
Well, I prefer not to say
Let's force him to tell us :P
Heh. Have fun with that...
Easier said than done, methinks.
@michaelpri I mean, I'd like to know, but...
4:35 PM
Wow -1 again
@TrevorClarke Really? Some people...
but it's okay because I've also got a DV now
@TrevorClarke I didn't make 3 sock accounts and downvote you with them or anything :P
Wow why?
@TrevorClarke Pretty sure he didn't...
4:38 PM
Given that that would be a breach of some part of all the terms Stack Exchange has
Hehe, I actually upvoted your nomination :)
Aww thx
Hmm, I got 5 comment votes on this
@overactor I don't find that a very big problem. Of course, it would be nice to have a moderator with experience, but I think that three rookie moderators would do a great job. Sites can vary greatly from each other, and, while past moderator experience can help, it can't fully prepare you to moderate another different site. — michaelpri 11 hours ago
@michaelpri Because it's true, perhaps?
Yeah, but I almost never get my comments upvoted
4:44 PM
Join the club :D
Erm... I appear to have found a 27-year suspension... android.stackexchange.com/users/74188/venus-house
Uh... wow
I didn't even know that was possible...
@ArtOfCode I've seen one until 2043 once. That account is deleted now.
4:46 PM
@ProgramFOX I'm not surprised, somehow.
Why wouldn't they just nuke the account?
Hello :)
@Zizouz212 Evening :)
Hey @Zizouz212
Heard my name pop up, what's up?
4:49 PM
I was wondering why you retracted your nomination?
I don't know... I'm not entirely sure if I want to go on with it
@Zizouz212 Give it some consideration. I think you'd make an excellent mod; so do plenty of others here. At least consider it, if the team do ask you to step up.
If the community team asks me, maybe
They might actually ask you if you decline
If I decline?
4:53 PM
You nominated me?
I did, because I think the you'd be a good mod and the community should have somewhere to express that. You're on +4/-1 plus my vote is +5/-1: looking strong.
I guess
Hey that puts you not far behind me :)
@Zizouz212 Yeah, maybe
4:56 PM
If you like, you can edit that post with a note saying you're unsure. Something like you'd be willing to consider it if the community team consider you.
Sure, I'll edit that post, there's a comment there too...
Evening @Air
I don't know who is down voting me
I don't underatand hat I did wrong
@ArtOfCode Or morning, as the case may be. I actually have to run to a meeting just now but I'll be back shortly. tl;dr: I haven't decided on yours yet
OK - we can discuss later on :)
@TrevorClarke Some people just form opinions, which you can't do much about. Don't worry about it. In the end, it's the community team that decides, so if they think you'd be a good mod then they'll pick you.
5:04 PM
Mind you, all the candidates but one just got a wave of downvotes
@Zizouz212 True. One being who?
@Zizouz212 Well he just got a DV as well so all's evens
Ah well. The votes go how they go, there's nothing we can do about them except sit and watch :)
5:07 PM
Yep, such is life :)
It's not only about votes though
True. The CM's'll look through our contributions as well, I expect
I expect that as well
Votes are useful guides for them from the people who've been here right the way through, but if they prefer one user over another they're in their rights to say "we'll do what we want" xD
I haven't been top 3 in the voting on either of the sites I moderate
5:09 PM
Help us choose, but you'll never really choose!
They do take it into consideration though
Like if someone has 10 votes more than everyone else, they will probably be the mod
@michaelpri I challenge you to make a prediction based on the current incredibly messy set of votes :)
150 votes -> you're not mod!
-150 votes -> you're the best mod we've ever had!
Heh. I doubt they'd go that far
@ArtOfCode Out of the nominees right now that will be very hard. There will probably be more nominations soon too
5:12 PM
I'm kinda eager to see who else will pop up, and then of course, if people want to nominate themselves after we go public...
Current prediction: myself, Ziz, curiousdannii. They might chat to Gilles and see if he's willing.
But right now, I'm gonna have to say you (ArtOfCode), Ziz (if he accepts), and curiousdannii
He looks pretty adamant about not being one...
I'm thinking of nominating @Mnementh though
5:14 PM
But watch how everything changes :)
I did think about it, but Mnementh said he'd rather step back and let someone else do it when we talked about it a while back - so I didn't
I'm probably gonna still
Go ahead though, no one said you can't nominate others :)
For Health, two of the four mods had declined
Well it'll be an interesting choice, anyway
Almost as interesting as Lifehacks :)
5:17 PM
It's been forever since i've cruised around lifehacks...
I very rarely go there...
Funny thing is I love lifehacks
It's an.... interesting site
How so?
It's helped me in so many ways though...
5:20 PM
And once again, I missed a lot in Open Source Stack Exchange after being away. Did anything Earth-shattering happen over the last four days?
@HDE226868 well only the mod nominations went up :)
Why hello again :)
Tim replied to that open info post
That said: go vote
@ArtOfCode Just saw that.
Yeah, and he did a good job on it
5:21 PM
Yeah, better than everyone combined :)
In fact, the CM's are having a find-the-grammar-mistake competition on Tim's post if you see the revision history :)
Yeah, it's quite exciting :)
@ArtOfCode OK so what I'm trying to remember re: your nomination is whether you voted to close the previous nomination thread or not. I can't see the deleted history to check.
@Air I believe I did, let me find a screenshot
@ArtOfCode It's kinda hard to explain
5:26 PM
I know we disagreed about whether it was too early or not but can't recall who, other than Madara Uchiha, were the voters, and I wanted to remember to check later and see who was quick to nominate themselves the second time around...
Of the closers, 3 have nominated themselves.
@Air I was fairly quick to nominate myself, I'll admit, but mainly because I was here when @michaelpri brought up the subject of a new nominations post.
@ArtOfCode Thanks for that. Man, chat is sluggish for me right now.
@Air I'm interested: what formed your impression of Zizouz212?
Anyway - I feel obliged to bring it up and give you a chance to respond (in comments), since I brought it up on Meta earlier.
@air To bring what up, sorry?
5:34 PM
I'm back :)
Hello again :)
Also @Air While you're here, what did you mean by this?
> In the interest of explaining a downvote, while I have no doubts about this user's level of interest or engagement, my strong impression has been one of quantity over quality
@ArtOfCode See the comment I just left.
I don't see any comment...
@Zizouz212 on my nomination
5:48 PM
@Air reply is there also
@Air What about the comment you made to my nomination post?
@Zizouz212 Hmm. I'm thinking how best to clarify.
Okay sure :)
You remember we disagreed about whether a second thread was useful for some topic or other on Meta.
5:51 PM
I certainly remember that, let me see if I can find it
I've also read a couple of your answers (one of my own question, so that's easy to find) where you cited the same reference given by the author of the question.
That strongly suggests you rushed to answer without thoroughly digesting the problem statement.
Of course, sometimes people don't read their own references fully when they ask, but in that case usually the answers will at least acknowledge, "here's the same link you had, you missed something, look at this" because they realize it's odd to post the same link.
I want to be clear, it's not a problem to ask quickly or to answer quickly. Everything gets evaluated on the basis of whether it's useful, and so as long as the site's healthy, voting evens it out.
Some of the highest-voted answers on SO are really fast and off-the-cuff quotes from documentation, after all. They are useful.
But at the risk of being cliche, moderation is at as much about when and why you choose not to act, as it is about what actions you actually take.
Ok, I don't entirely remember myself answering that completely, but I'll tell you this: Generally when people reference, I don't normally bother going to the link, mostly because I assume that the OP places all, or the relevant quotations within the post
I likely wrote that answer because I probably saw a misunderstanding in what happened, and I acknowledged that I was unsure of the second question you had.
Generally, I do take some time to research the subject, however if it falls under a clear view of required expertise, I'll share my thoughts and normally acknowledge that I have nothing else to share

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