Language Overflow

12:12 AM

Hacked?

@tchrist It's my idiolect. :P

Basically, it happens when a learner finds a sentence in a book or some other place and then tampers with it a bit here and there.

Ah. Thanks.

I don't know if a man of quick parts is still common in English.

What the heck is it?

Living parts?

Rather than dead ones?

Q: next time bring a clue, not a paintball gun (meaning)

I think it's used in Pride and Prejudice to mean a smart man.

Ah, I see. You were trying to suggested that people don't use it anymore! Thanks!

1

From the movie Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines If you have not seen the movie, here's a short summary to give you come context: John Connor in the middle of the night breaks into a pet pharmacy to steal a bunch of pills because he's suffering emotional breakdowns or something like that. But ...

meaning

It alludes to the idiom You don't have a clue?

12:38 AM

@DamkerngT. That's right.

I haven't seen that movie yet.

It's a bit odd for me (at the moment) that Sarah Connor would say, "You don't have a clue" in that scene.

I probably don't have a clue either! :-)

heh

Huh? Wait. It's Terminator 3! Why couldn't I remember that scene?

Hmm... I can remember that he was locked up in a cage, but I can't remember the paintball gun, or that line.

Early-onset Alzheimer's?

Scary!

12:44 AM

That's what I keep telling people. :)

A: 'At the battle' or 'in the battle'? Why?

9:45 AM

3

A very nice question to ponder upon. As I see, both the styles are in practice. This makes me think that it depends on the style of the writer here. However, if you refer COCA, you find - 286 results mixed with common use of 'in the battle of non historic battles + the historic ones. For e...

I'm pretty sure that this answer is not quite right, but I don't know enough to assert anything useful.

In any case, in and at should suggest different things, and it shouldn't be just a matter of numbers of results found in a corpus.

@user3169 What about the sentence written in the question? Which one is correct? — RuchirM 5 hours ago

This suggests that the learner believes that in each given sentence, there is only one possible "correct" choice.

It's not true in several cases.

Then again, I'm not sure if that applies to this one.

I think one works better than the other.

> with victory ___ the battle

> a) on b) in c) at d) of

The search (case insensitive): victory * a battle,victory * the battle

> That made her the 40th monarch in a royal line that traces its origin back to Norman King William the Conqueror who claimed the throne in 1066 with victory over Anglo-Saxon Harold II at the Battle of Hastings.

Reading the text again, I think it also suggests that the claim happened at the battle.

10:04 AM

Hmm.

Well, you can talk about an act at a battle

(Perhaps 3 words, not just two, besides the semantic, are involved in the choice of the preposition: battle, victory, and claim.)

But you can't talk about an act in a battle

On the other hand, you can say an outcome in a battle (let's set aside of for the time being)

But you can't say an outcome at a battle

I think the issue here is that victory is both an act and an outcome

And hence, both in and at are equally valid.

Great point!

I wonder whether the data supports my completely wild theory.

> A fight at the battle
? A fight in the battle
A victory/defeat in the battle
? A victory/defeat at the battle

Hmm.

Maulik's observations are okay, imo, but his assertions are not solid. I mean, they could be, but they're probably not right-right.

> However, if you refer COCA, you find -
286 results mixed with common use of 'in the battle of non historic battles + the historic ones.
[an example]
On the other hand, 350 results to 'at the battle of' gives us more on the historic battles.
To conclude, yes, 'in the battle or at the battle' both are okay, but then, using the preposition 'at' seems to be more common when you are talking about the historic ones.

10:10 AM

Another issue is that lots of the events that happen in battle - victory, defeat, massacre, bloodshed - have become synonymous with outcomes.

@DamkerngT. I question the methodology in determining the historical/non-historical distinction.

None of us are trying to write a peer-reviewed paper, but still.

@jimsug That's what I have in mind.

@jimsug Indeed we are not, but we're giving our learners our guidance.

It's not surprising to find strange rules and suggestions in grammar textbooks written by non-native speakers.

corpus.byu.edu/coca/?c=coca&q=41306948

@jimsug a fight at the battle has no plot on Google Ngram!

Hmm. The data does not seem to support my theory.

It supports his observations.

10:17 AM

Not necessarily.

Only the observations, not the conclusion.

I would not call a 15-13 persuasive... it's far too close.

I mean, all 15 results of VICTORY AT THE BATTLE OF are about physical ones, historical ones.

And 13 results of VICTORY IN THE BATTLE OF are just mostly about physical ones, with a couple about abstract battles.

So it's 15-11

Need more data.

nods -- I think so.

10:20 AM

What if instead we search for verb in|at the battle of the

But the conclusion is another matter.

Interesting. I'm not sure if a search I can come up with is a good search.

Well

[v*] in|at the battle of: corpus.byu.edu/coca/?c=coca&q=41307011

Almost tie, again!

It's interesting how close the split is for all values of verb

nods

10:22 AM

Even on the previous search, for noun

I think maybe the use of in (the battle) suggests a zoomed-in view, and the use of at (the battle) suggests a zoomed-out view.

Examples?

Like, say, a minimal pair, to illustrate?

Like in the fought in/at the battle results.

Right.

Wait.

Hmm.

In also seems to better fit for abstract battles.

10:25 AM

@DamkerngT. That's almost indisputable, based on the data.

nods

Q: 'At the battle' or 'in the battle'? Why?

* in|at the battle of: corpus.byu.edu/coca/?c=coca&q=41307101

no clear pattern. How frustrating.

5

Here is a source in which I read the following para: That made her the 40th monarch in a royal line that traces its origin back to Norman King William the Conqueror who claimed the throne in 1066 with victory over Anglo-Saxon Harold II at the Battle of Hastings. Now my questions are: Can ...

prepositions sentence-structure

I think when the use allows both, it's probably really about the zoomed-in vs. zoomed-out views, even though this probably happens unconsciously.

It's really close to needing protection, IMO

But whatever shrugs

@DamkerngT. So what's the difference in meaning, then... zoomed-in vs -out?

I'm thinking of the metaphor point-surface-container of at-on-in in time expressions. At may suggest the zoomed-out view, a point in the history. In may suggest the sense of "during" the event.

10:33 AM

You're right, it's not really something I would think about.

Hmmm....

And at can suggest both a point in time, and a point in space (as in a place).

Prepositions are difficult, aren't they?

Q: What does the preposition to mean here in the sentence?

Very!

Probably the most difficult among the big four.

(articles, tenses, modals, and prepositions)

Contrary to popular belief, I believe that vocabulary, even the rare words/phrases, is actually relatively easy for an adult who learns English (and probably any language) as a second language.

0

We shall pilot several new cosmetic products to selected potential purchasers. Does it emphasize that we shall test the cosmetic products for the selected purchasers? Or it emphasizes that the products are inteded to be sold to the purchasers?

prepositions

Another example that shows how hard English prepositions can be.

> We shall pilot several new cosmetic products to selected potential purchasers.

Frankly, I haven't seen pilot used like this (pilot ... to) before.

But it's not a problem, reading the text.

Choosing the right one in our own writing (as a learner) is another story.

10:50 AM

I think usually pilot with

Although my last hunch didn't pan out :P

I expected pilot ... on!

(With also sounds better than to to me, too.)

(I mean, the potential purchasers are not an island or an airport so that we would pilot our "products" to them.)

Q: What's the full answer to "shall I"?

11:44 AM

5

The form Shall I is used to make offers, in general. For example Shall I help you? and one would answer Yeah, help me but what's the full answer? I mean, with a question like You will go for meat, won't you? Short answer: Yeah. Full answer: Yes I will. But shall as a second ...

grammar sentence-construction

Syntax vs. implication?

Also consider, "What shall I do tonight?" — Damkerng T. 14 secs ago

1

Q: Word for mood or (facial) expression if awaiting laughs on a commentary / rhetoric question?

Imagine the following (chat) conversation: John: Can you name all the presidents? Marry: I thought they already had names ^_^ The text smiley ^_^ - or alternatively ;) - indicates irony. There are multiple ways to put that answer in spoken language (+countenance): dead pan, monotone voi...

word-request

> The text smiley ^_^ - or alternatively ;) - indicates irony. There are multiple ways to put that answer in spoken language (+countenance):

Huh?

"^_^ indicates irony"

That's the first!

And isn't ;) just a wink?!

12:15 PM

ELL template for proofreading:

Hello, @Nad, and welcome to ELL! It's admirable that you care English usage and want to avoid grammatical mistakes in your writing; however, this is not a proofreading site. As stated in our Help Center, proofreading ("are there any mistakes?") are off-topic, unless the source of concern is clearly specified. Please consider editing your question to be specific about a grammar point you concern. — Damkerng T. 42 secs ago

+1000000

Mine is

> Welcome to our community! To keep the quality of the questions high, we do not answer proofreading requests. Unfortunately, the way your question is currently formulated, raises the alarms of being such question. To make it on-topic, you need to tell us what confuses you. For more info, please see Alternative websites for proofreading and Details, please!.

Nice!

Q: hurdles in/for implementing

2:04 PM

2

Prepositions mostly confuse me while writing. I stuck in the following sentence: These difficulties can create hurdles in implementing effective business operations that ultimately result in stagnant growth. Grammarly shows that 'in' preposition is wrong in this context. I should use 'for...

prepositions

An interesting sentence written by a learner:

> These difficulties can create hurdles in implementing effective business operations that ultimately result in stagnant growth.

Shoot it. Shoot it now.

These troubles make it hard to do business and therefore hurt growth.

Why in the name of all that's holy wouldn't they just write it that way instead?

And it's probably hurdles to implementing.

Although I wouldn't say you super-had to.

2:25 PM

@tchrist I really have no idea, but if I had to guess, I'd guess that it sounds more "authoritative".

2:42 PM

Note to self: 'How to Master the Art of Gobbledygook (for Non-Native Speakers)' could be interesting as a book title.

I added a comment. It may be too strong.

Hmm... if that comment were to me, I wouldn't think it's too strong, but I would consider it guidance.

But that's just me. All learners are different.

A: What phrase should I use to say that a girl rejected a guy who was rude to her?

3:30 PM

0

.^_^. I don't know where you are from but I'm a fluent English speaker, a native American-English speaker. I'd love to help. The answers you received are wrong because they do not address the fact that the male trying to pick up the girl was rude to her. To "Snub" someone is to disregard, "turn ...

An interesting answer.

Curve in this sense is new to me.

So I'd better move my not-so-good comment here:

Probably not a very good answer, but I think besides Adam's suggestions, She just said no to him and She just refused him would work too. — Damkerng T. 18 hours ago

Q: Writing seems easier than understanding something written. Please help!

3:50 PM

Hmm...

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Is this the same for you? (I remember that you mentioned writing/speaking is easier than reading/listening for you.)

0

I try to be cool by using english words randomly (just because they look fit into the sentence). But when it comes to explain something written, it's a problem for me. So, I'm not confident in front of my buddies when something is asked from me in the expectation that I must be knowing its meaning.

word-usage vocabulary phrase-usage

@DamkerngT. It's hard to evaluate whether I understand written stuff better or I can write stuff better.

I can't make my mind.

@DamkerngT. It's hard to evaluate whether I understand written stuff better or I can write stuff better.

I can't make my mind.

Damn you internet!

Reduplication!

Megareduplication.

Oh, wait... I think I misunderstood the sentence. Bad me. I should've read the news first.

Q: Seriously need how to use words and need to build vocabulary fast. Please help!

0

I try to look cool by using english words randomly (just because they look fit into the sentence). I use them like I know all the slangs and my vocab is sky high, on FB, whatsapp or whatever. But when it comes to explain something written, it's a problem for me. So, I'm not confident in front of ...

word-usage vocabulary phrase-usage slang

3:56 PM

Also similar, a dangerous act that is unthinkable is also extremely frightening just to think of doing it. — Damkerng T. 1 hour ago

Q: Seriously need how to use words and need to build vocabulary fast. Please help!

@Dam would you go and comment please.

0

I try to look cool by using english words randomly (just because they look fit into the sentence). I use them like I know all the slangs and my vocab is sky high, on FB, whatsapp or whatever. But when it comes to explain something written, it's a problem for me. So, I'm not confident in front of ...

word-usage vocabulary phrase-usage slang

@Dam would you go and comment please.

0

Q: Seriously need how to use words and need to build vocabulary fast. Please help!

I try to look cool by using english words randomly (just because they look fit into the sentence). I use them like I know all the slangs and my vocab is sky high, on FB, whatsapp or whatever. But when it comes to explain something written, it's a problem for me. So, I'm not confident in front of ...

word-usage vocabulary phrase-usage slang

I'm not sure what kind of comments he really needs.

Facepalm

:D

Waiting for the second 'facepalm'...

@DamkerngT. He asked another question.

3:59 PM

Huh?

@Dam don't forget to recommend chat to them!

I'm not at my desktop. Is this 'Seriously' a new question?

Oh, they are two questions!

If you vote to close as duplicate, I will followe.

I'm writing (i.e. finishing) the title thing/

(I'm not at my desktop, so I don't want to search anything much.)

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Yay!

Please don't do that. You may think that you are looking cool. But people who know enough English would probably see through you and call you an "idiot". In the end, you are only looking cool to people who know less English than you, so what's the point? Also, slangs and facebook words do not make your vocabulary sky high. — Anachor 7 mins ago

But we have the saying, "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

So it could work (I think it works), in the land of the blind.

I don't have eyes. I'm a cation.

4:10 PM

Aww... my dear chemling

I see through my electrons. Which is way cooler than seeing.

In any case, the "look cool" attitude is probably not unreasonable. It's easier these days to use words and phrases a learner is not ready to handle. The Internet is so vast a resource.

4:46 PM

That reminds me, I have to ask Pittayaporn a question about the pronunciation of ค in the past. Sorta promised you I would.

No need to hurry. :-)

He'll probably give me a long history though. Given his thesis is on Proto-Tai phonology.

Hehe!

What's Tai? How is it different from Thai? O.o

It's the language family, Tai-Kadai.

4:49 PM

The members include Thai, Lao, Tai Yuan, Tai Lue, Saek etc.

Pittayaporn seems to like the name Kra-Dai better for the family though, for some academic reason I'm too lazy to read.

Sometimes I think Thai is the true Chindia.

Well, yeah, it's been heavily indianized and sinified indeed.

@Fantasier Ahh... there must be a good reason.

And it's becoming Chindinglish. :P

More like Monkhmerchindianinglish hahaha. A month ago I learnt เดิน 'walk' is not Tai, either...

Hehe!

4:55 PM

I find the idea of not using any loanword at all incomprehensibruuu

And still people complain when we loan new words :-P

We really make it a good blend. Whatever that means. :P

I still don't like when someone tries to force English words in Thai sentences, just for the sake of having some English words and perhaps looking cool or sounding refined.

Ah, you'll probably hate me then :-P

But I'm more like. One utterance in Thai, another English.

^_^

I think you're not really like that, and probably do it when you're with your peers.

They say, you can tell a gentleman by his shoes. I say, you can tell a gentleman by his words.

I think I got it from my friends at Arts.

(I'd use "they" if the original is not only about gentleman.)

5:02 PM

And also partly because I study in English a lot (all English major's classes use English to teach).

nods -- That's quite understandable. To master something, you have to play with it.

← 27 messages moved from ELL's Cabin

5:43 PM

Worst journalist of the year award goes to camerawoman who tried to trip a refugee so they'd be caught by the police. http://t.co/2vRTYMLfmm

Tweeted by DavidKenner on September 8, 2015 at 7:59 PM

I'm speechless.

Anonymous

I've never heard of that slang use of the verb curve before.

@DamkerngT. Um.

@snailboat Ah, I'm not alone!

What slang use of curve?

Oh, sorry. Wrong link!

Here: ell.stackexchange.com/questions/67527/…

Anonymous

5:57 PM

I think unusual words and usage, especially unusual slang, should come with a warning on ELL. It's not that learners can't use unusual words, of course. Just that they should know they're doing so and consciously choose to do it

@DamkerngT. ಠ_ಠ

Anonymous

Otherwise, they might end up rather surprised by the reactions they get down the road!

@snailboat It happens all the time, I guess!

HALP!

I need to find examples.

'Get a clue' can also mean 'be more intelligent generally', rather than suggesting that John should have prepared better. She's calling him stupid for undertaking the attempted theft. If he'd brought his intelligence and common sense along, instead of a paintball gun, he wouldn't be in the cage. — Damien H 13 hours ago

I think the comment is correct.

Sadly, it's just a comment.

6:10 PM

OMG

@Dam is it really done?

Done?

A: How can I write a better title for my ELL question?

0

Titles give a first impression of your post. Good titles bring positive attention to your question, and you will get it answered sooner; more upvotes will follow etc. Bad titles don't allow your question to get the attention it deserves. (Less upvotes, less likelihood of getting an answer etc.) V...

That's really long!

I'm getting the feeling it's not long enough.

@Dam are you reading my answer? If so, please gimme feedback!

I already gave it. :P

6:19 PM

No I mean, tell me if something is missing.

I have the creepy feeling that I missed and didn't write something I should have.

I can't tell you at the moment what is missing, but I can tell you that it looks better than I expected!

Oh?

It's not easy to write anything long and still keep it readable or enjoyable to read on SE.

@DamkerngT. There's a TL;DR section coming.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M That's my compliment. I think you pulled it off.

I'm sure I will point our learners to this meta post from time to time in the future.

I wish I could award a bounty on the meta.

6:27 PM

@DamkerngT. :)

No probs. I just want to have a clean(er) ELL.

Sooo, @Dam when are you going to suggest I add more tips?

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M When it's needed.

(Which basically means, I ran into something that your meta post doesn't cover.)

I requested Maulik to feature it BTW.

nods -- (Still haven't seen it. Probably tomorrow.)

Q: What does "educated at university" mean, exactly?

8:09 PM

2

"Educated at university" seems to be a British English expression. I wonder does it necessarily mean that someone "educated at university" or "educated at Oxford University" (for example)... (a) necessarily graduated from/received a degree at the named university, (b) can it only imply the perso...

word-usage meaning-in-context phrase-usage expressions british-english

^To be reviewed tomorrow...

@DamkerngT. This reminded me of Simpsons: The movie.

:D

educated at is a participle phrase. You may view people educated at ... as a reduced version of people who were educated at .... You might also find this answer helpful. — Fantasier Jun 12 '14 at 6:36

The first comment actually got the OP's intention right, imo.

A: 'Waters' in this context confuses me

8:24 PM

2

The colour of the (X) is magenta because The word for (X) here is indisputably "water", as it is referring to the actual substance in the sea. at that place, the (Y) of the Indian Ocean and the (Z) of the South Atlantic Ocean meet. Here, you can use the "water" to refer to the actual s...

I think both of these are plausible:

> a) The colour of the water is magenta because at the place, the waters of the Indian Ocean and the waters of the South Atlantic Ocean, which are red and green respectively, meet.

> b) The colour of water is magenta because at the place, the waters of the Indian Ocean and the waters of the South Atlantic Ocean, which are red and green respectively, meet.

Me too.

B) is probably less likely, but I think it may be possible if the speaker is a reporter reporting the news on site.

I think A is less likely.

LET'S FIGHT.

Hmm... b) may need to be edited a little: at the place --> here

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M No fight.

We'd want to seek the true answer, not to win a fight.

@DamkerngT. But I want a fight. :'(

q_q

8:36 PM

I wonder if you ran into your ex-teacher and had a pleasant conversation with him or her, and before leaving your teacher said, "It was nice talking to you," would you reply your teacher with "Thank you. Same here."? — Damkerng T. Jan 5 at 0:34

@DamkerngT. you can come with n number of possibilities to have someone telling me that! I'm afraid I cannot include all! When the question is general, I'd certainly answer in a general way. OP's straightforward question is 'how to respond' such sentence. It can come from anyone's mouth -right from a gf to a teacher and even a stranger! And yes, I'd certainly answer that way to my ex teacher and trust me, here, they'll still like my answer! :) — Maulik V ♦ Jan 5 at 5:13

Maybe I was wrong to speculate that the politeness in India is similar to the politeness in Thailand.

Perhaps the idea of "seniority deserves respect" over here is more related to China's culture?

+1 Definitely good for informal or casual, in my opinion. Although I would say 'Same here. Thank you.' — user6951 Jan 4 at 15:56

I think, "Same here. Thank you." sounds a little better than "Thank you. Same here."

Hmm... probably not just a little.

KTHXBAI is the best and only polite response.

Heh!

A: What is the proper way to write time in a manuscript?

8:49 PM

6

AP Style requires a.m. or p.m. -- lower case, separated by periods. There is no need for an additional period if the sentence ends with the time. The briefing began at 2:30 p.m. This would be the correct format for anything journalistic (newspaper, magazine, wire service, etc.) In additio...

I sleep. Night @Dam!

Ahh... so it's safer to write "a.m." or "p.m." than AM or PM.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Sleep tight! I'm going to make my tea. :D

@DamkerngT. Many latin abbr.'s are abbreviated in that syntax. e.g. i.e.

Anonymous

9:04 PM

AM and PM are fine. If you have a particular style guide to follow, you can always do that, but there's a lot of variation in how people write things.

Anonymous

Maybe avoid ㏂ and ㏘ in English, though :-)

I prefer ᴀᴍ and ᴘᴍ wherever possible.

Anonymous

I want Q in small caps. I need it for phonemic notation.

It is a sadness.

    tr[aæbcdðeǝfgɠhiɨjklłmnoœɔȣprɹꝵstuʉɯvwyzʒγλπρψл]
      [ᴀᴁʙᴄᴅᴆᴇⱻꜰɢʛʜɪᵻᴊᴋʟᴌᴍɴᴏɶᴐᴕᴘʀᴚꝶꜱᴛᴜᵾꟺᴠᴡʏᴢᴣᴦᴧᴨᴩᴪᴫ];

Anonymous

Oh, I'm getting zero results from chat search again.

9:12 PM

@snailboat That's almost unreadable!

@snailboat Server rebuilding indexes maybe.

Anonymous

I tried working around it by using font-variant:small-caps in HTML, but my Q ended up the wrong height in half the browsers I checked.

@snailboat I think they changed the search engine a while ago, perhaps last month.

A: Proposal to add small-capitals formatting directive

@snailboat That's because it is fake small caps. I have a posting on this somewhere.

Last paragraph here:

7

EDIT: Replaced incorrect samples at bottom with true ones showing the difference between faked small caps and real ones, and made all images clickable for enlargement. In The Elements of Typographical Style, Robert Bringhurst writes: Genuine small caps are not simply shrunken versions of t...

> The actual small caps in the first example are using CSS with font-feature-settings: "smcp" 1 and therefore use the true small caps in the font instead of trying to fake it. The emulated ones in the second examples are using CSS with font-variant: small-caps which despite its name perversely enough only emulates them!

Anonymous

This 1968 paper has small /Q X R N T J/: dspace.wul.waseda.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/2065/3124/3/…

9:18 PM

Try using the first CSS variant instead of the second.

Anonymous

I can write /ɴ/ or /ʀ/ or /ᴊ/ if I like, but I can only write /Q/ or /X/.

Anonymous

Well, /X/ isn't really relevant at this point, but /Q/ is commonly used.

Anonymous

People write /taQte/

@snailboat I got that message! -- sad

I guess I could open it just fine on my Mac.

Anonymous

The ones I want today are /Q ʜ ɴ ᴊ/. But with a small ‹Q›!

Anonymous

9:22 PM

@DamkerngT. Oh! Maybe you could install the fonts it wants? I don't know what fonts those are.

Anonymous

Here's the HTML page which links to the PDF: dspace.wul.waseda.ac.jp/dspace/handle/2065/3124

@snailboat I don't know either, but I don't like the idea of installing new things much.

Anonymous

I understand. If I had the energy, I'd make images and circle the letters for you. :-)

@snailboat No worry. I can open it somehow later. :D

ᴀ ᴍ ᴘ ʜ ɴ ᴊ

Hmm... they look like Unicode characters from the same range.

(Block is probably a better word.)

Anonymous

Japanese phonemes: /a i u e o k g s š z ǰ t c č d n h f b p m y r w ʜ ɴ ᴊ Q/

Anonymous

9:27 PM

/š ǰ c č f/ were all originally allophones but are now in the process of turning into phonemes

Anonymous

Not everyone acknowledges /ᴊ/, and /ʜ/ is sometimes written /ʀ/

Anonymous

There's a very marginal contrast between g and ŋ for some speakers in a small number of words, but for most ŋ is an allophone

Anonymous

/Q/ sticks out like a sore thumb!

Ahh... there is no small Q!

ᴀʙᴄᴅᴇғɢʜɪᴊᴋʟᴍɴᴏᴘǫʀsᴛᴜᴠᴡxʏᴢ

What character is that? ...

Anonymous

I think it's ‹o› with the diacritic ̨ added to it

9:34 PM

Indeed!

Anonymous

/taǫte/

:D

Anonymous

It doesn't look like a Q to me. Is that because I know it's secretly an O?

Anonymous

Would it look like a Q to people who don't know the secret? :-)

It doesn't look like a Q as much as I hoped for either.

But if you told me it's a Q, I'd believe you. :-)

Anonymous

9:37 PM

It's a Q!

A-ha! It's a Q!

Anonymous

Get with the believin'!

Hehe!

It looks more like a Q when it's between P and R: ᴘǫʀ

Anonymous

Yeah, our brains use context when determining what letters are present.

Anonymous

We read letters in parallel, and we're good at reading sequences we're familiar with. When we see a sequence like inform_tion, we can fill in the gap pretty easily.

Anonymous

9:41 PM

The other letters in the sequence give us information about what the missing letter is.

Anonymous

So when a letter is partially obscured by, say, an ink blot, it usually doesn't cause us any problems.

@snailboat Oh, that's so true! I thought of information just a split second before I noticed that it's written oddly with the underscore.

Anonymous

microsoft.com/typography/ctfonts/WordRecognition.aspx

An interesting V on the left bar!

(BTW, thanks for the link!)

Anonymous

Occasionally, Japanese.SE gets questions asking what a single character is. For some reason, people do their best to remove all context when asking these questions.

Anonymous

9:44 PM

Sometimes it's obvious. Sometimes you can't tell without the surrounding characters.

Oh, have you seen the handwriting example I posted here?

Anonymous

I'm not sure. What handwriting example is that?

2 days ago, by Damkerng T.

(BTW, It looks pretty much like gobbledygook to me. :-)

Anonymous

Right honorable rassafrassin' whatchamahoosit durn gul how is no heifer joyous of terwilliger on phosphorus.

(Even though I know that it's in English, or Middle English.)

Anonymous

9:48 PM

Am I close?

Anonymous

Your image says: Please do not inline Project Gutenberg images. See: www.gutenberg.org/howto-link

gutenberg.org/files/1837/1837-h/1837-h.htm

Anonymous

To be fair, there's a lot of 2015 handwriting I can't read. :-)

Anonymous

Occasionally my own, although I usually have fairly neat handwriting.

@snailboat That happens to me sometimes, too!

Anonymous

9:52 PM

Sometimes I write things very quickly if I have no intention of reading them again. The act of physically writing helps me remember them.

@DamkerngT. This is what happens when you let people write things down outside the scriptorium.

@tchrist That looks almost like a page from a printed book.

@DamkerngT. They were good at what they did.

Anonymous

That's very pretty writing.

I especially like the big O on that page. :D

Very artistic.

A: Where should drop cap be suitable?

9:56 PM

Versals are always cool. People who are good at setting type take pride in setting them artistically even today.

16

Fifteen Centuries of Versals There are many ways to indicate the beginning (or resumption) of a section of text, including paragraph indents, blank lines, changing the weight or style of the opening part of the text, ornamentation like fleurons — and versals, a category that includes drop caps. ...

Neat!

I haven't joined graphicdesign yet; otherwise, I'd up-voted it.

Only two clicks away. :)

Allriiight... :-)

> Elevated caps are easier to set well from a keyboard, but drop caps have closer links with the scribal and letterpress tradition. And the tooling and fitting of drop caps is something typographers do for fun, to test their skill and visual intuition. It is common practice to set the first word or phrase after the versal in caps, small caps, or boldface, as a bridge between versal and normal text.

No photograph printed with anything less than metallic ink can do justice to the Kells Chi-Rho page. You lose the gold leaf otherwise.

And therefore its rendition on a computer monitor will also suffer greatly.

It's so beautiful!

I can make it my desktop background and look at it all day long. :P

Anonymous

10:04 PM

My desktop background is a picture of a snail :-)