The Nineteenth Byte

Radvylf Programs

16:00

If you use C++, chances are you learned it a while ago. People still have to learn Java all the time.

So there's going to be a lot of people who learned Java and are now picking up another, more interesting or useful second language

pxeger

wtf is stackoverflow.co/talent

Radvylf Programs

Something tells me the US salary stats involved a bit of exaggeration

I'd love to know where I can get paid $100k to be a student

pxeger

I think that should have said -$100k

Seggan

@RadvylfPrograms silicon valley

but the cost of living is also higher

Radvylf Programs

Oh, true

pxeger

16:04

"Do you feel like a part of the community on StackOverflow"?

raises eyebrows

Seggan

~~i dont feel welcome~~ that neither

Radvylf Programs

That's a smart way to hide the fact that 60% of your users feel unwelcome. Pit them against one another.

Seggan

CGCC is much more of a community

pxeger

"Do you feel like you have individual freedom?"

Radvylf Programs

We're small enough that we can think through each post like humans, greet new users, and know a bit about most of the active users, but big enough that there's still new questions approximately daily, which I think is a good middle ground

user

16:08

@Seggan Well, SO is big enough that it's more multiple communities, not one single community

DLosc

@RadvylfPrograms To be fair, the way it's phrased, I would've said "no" because I don't really participate in StackOverflow. But I don't feel unwelcome per se.

Radvylf Programs

Yeah, just noticed that

pxeger

that was kinda my fault for misreading the title

chat.stackexchange.com/messages/61422603/history

DLosc

Ah, I see

Seggan

thats a lie

if they took the survey they visited the network

Radvylf Programs

16:12

Not necessarily, you could be emailed a link to the survey by a friend

And the survey's through a 3rd party

Seggan

wait it is?

nvm then

user

Ugh, why do so many people need to get Master's degrees? Puts the pressure on the rest of us to get them too :|

Radvylf Programs

I wonder if the degree has to be in something relevant (or if they bother checking)

user

I mean, even a general Master's in CS would probably be an advantage, although more specialized degrees would be better for some jobs

Oh you mean did the SO survey check what the degrees was in

pxeger

@user arguably, the same goes for bachelors'

user

16:17

Right, but those are easier to get and some higher education before getting into a job is probably helpful

caird coinheringaahing

@user Idk about everyone else, but I'm on a master's programme to further delay me leaving education and having to deal with the real world :P

user

>:| It's because of you that we can't have nice things

Once you do enter the real world, you'll be a heck of a lot more impressive than me (well, if you go into the same field ig)

pxeger

@cairdcoinheringaahing then do a PhD, then work as a postdoc, and accidentally get a job, all at the same university! That way, you never will!

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger I mean, I am thinking about doing a PhD :P

Radvylf Programs

Dr. Caird

or I guess Dr. Coinheringaahing

pxeger

16:22

I wonder how many CGCC users have PhDs

caird coinheringaahing

Dennis does, and I think Martin does

user

I think there was a Jelly user who was a doctor but idk if they were a medical doctor or a PhD

DLosc

Looks like ais523 does

caird coinheringaahing

PhiNotPi does as well, as does isaacg

Interestingly, they were both students at the same uni:

Mar 19, 2019 at 17:20, by PhiNotPi

Ayy I got accepted to a PhD program at Carnegie Mellon.

Mar 19, 2019 at 19:04, by isaacg

@PhiNotPi I'm a PhD student at CMU right now, congratulations!

Radvylf Programs

Oh huh, that's where I'm wanting to go

(for a bachelor's degree, at least)

(once 2028 hits I have absolutely no clue what I'll do)

user

16:29

Probably drink some water

caird coinheringaahing

In 2016, I wanted to do chemistry at uni :P

Radvylf Programs

My current plan is run for president but I'm missing some steps along the way

pxeger

Based on some online digging, I think xnor has a PhD

caird coinheringaahing

@RadvylfPrograms Step 1: Turn 35. Step 2: Win the 2044 US election

pxeger

Apr 9, 2016 at 18:38, by Alex A.

If I'm not mistaken, xnor is a PhD student at MIT researching quantum computing stuff.

caird coinheringaahing

16:35

@pxeger Fatalize also, and IIRC JoKing is currently studying for one

pxeger

This message is kinda ambiguous, but I think Zgarb has one too chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/240?m=26041265#26041265

thejonymyster

@DLosc wow i never knew the ais was initials. very cool

drais523

user

Jun 19, 2017 at 8:17, by ais523

because my job is to take programming techniques that have never worked before (typically because they've only just been invented), and try to make them work in at least a "small demonstration" sense

That sounds like a really cool job (not that I would be able to do it :P)

thejonymyster

16:51

i read the phd thesis and it said it was for philosophy? but its like hardcore math / comp sci?

am i missing something :P

DLosc

There's a fine line between abstract math and philosophy sometimes

caird coinheringaahing

Basically, it's just a non-medical doctorate

pxeger

A PhD means "doctor of philosophy", but if you have a PhD in maths, then you're a "doctor of philosophy of maths"

The "philosophy" part is pretty irrelevant

caird coinheringaahing

If you get a PhD in Philosophy of Maths, are you a "doctor of philosophy of philosophy of maths"? :P

pxeger

what's the associativity of the "of" operator?

caird coinheringaahing

16:56

Left associative, obviously

thejonymyster

barely related, but is there a well defined way to make an op that, for example, associates a . b . c . d => (a.b).(c.d)

the of thing make me think of it lol

DLosc

(doctor of philosophy) of (philosophy of maths)

thejonymyster

exactly

i can think of a way to implement it for example

but not rigorously define it besides just to quote the implementation :P

pxeger

it's a binary tree of ofs of ofs

thejonymyster

ahh thank you

binary tree, that helps

Radvylf Programs

18:37

Risky works a bit like that

E.g., xyzabcd is parsed as (x y z) a (b c d)

thejonymyster

19:11

ultra infix

Radvylf Programs

I called it oddfix, since it actually parses differently based on if the program length is even/odd (and it's recursive, so a 9-byte program would be two even-length programs joined with a dyadic operator)

mathcat

nice

thejonymyster

19:34

i like it yea

emanresu A

@thejonymyster flip flip (.) . (((.) . (.) . (.)) .) . (.) according to pointfree.io

thejonymyster

woag

emanresu A

> Chef developers are the highest paid

> Chef

thejonymyster

@emanresuA yeah, Chef developers

emanresu A

Yeah I know

Whyyyyy

thejonymyster

19:57

i figured it was a typo for chief

Radvylf Programs

I think (x, y) = (y, x) or [x, y] = [y, x] is a much more sensible syntax for destructuring assignment than Python's x, y = y, x. Opinions?

emanresu A

They're both reasonable

Radvylf Programs

I guess, assuming assignment's a statement like in Python, but x, y = y, x just feels like it's lacking some sort of structure

pxeger

You can use (x, y) = (y, x) or [x, y] = [y, x] in Python as well, btw

I think (x, y) = (y, x) is the best option

Seggan

woo first Fig answer

thejonymyster

20:30

i love refreshing and watching the mathjax cycle through each phase of formatting. its so weird to me that it even does that

Radvylf Programs

Yeah, not sure what's up with that. Maybe to do with fonts, or browser compat?

My laptop's fast enough I don't actually see it load anymore, but it was definitely noticeable on my old one

thejonymyster

i'm on my work computer :P so nothing fancy

Radvylf Programs

Ooh with mathjax in H1s it definitely is noticeable due to the size, looks like it goes through both serif and sans-serif fonts before finding a math one which is weire

thejonymyster

yesss exactly :D isnt nature beautiful

Radvylf Programs

The birds are chirping, the code is golfing, the mathjax is loading

10

thejonymyster

20:33

i guess i always figured the formatting was done ahead of time

Seggan

20:47

has anyone noticed the recent influx of messages on the starboard?

recent as in the past 2 weeks

were going through a full starboard in 3 days

user

Yeah, and they're a bit more off-topic now

Kinda going back to how it used to be

Radvylf Programs

@Seggan That's pretty normal I think

Seggan

nah

we used to have messages on the board for a week or 2

user

Only recently when we got serious about off-topic stuff

Radvylf Programs

It varies a lot. We go through periods of inactivity, periods of more on-topic or off-topic discussion, etc.

Seggan

20:50

@thejonymyster the very first answer uses it :P

@RadvylfPrograms true

Radvylf Programs

I don't see any issue with our current starboard. Every message there is coding or CGCC related in some obvious way, and it's not covering up anything important or filled with any particularly unfunny jokes.

Seggan

i never said there was any issue

i was pointing out the fact that were going through a full board faster than we used to

Radvylf Programs

I know, just saying there's not really any issue with the fact that we are

It's a pretty marked improvement from 2015 at the very least :p

Seggan

21:15

CMP: Should I use that extra bit in my compression system for run length encoding or to mark a char as uppercase, thereby reducing the compression codepage and making compressed stuff smaller?

Radvylf Programs

Both good options, RLE might be more useful though

Seggan

i was actually thinking the other way around

its not that often i need strings that are easily RLE compressed

Seggan

21:49

oof

i thought my compressor worked perfectly

Hello, World! gave me a number that decompressed correctly

but when i tried turning that number into a base 94 string

i got ']kYFeL3. then i stuck it into the decompressor

and i got Now explain

emanresu A

Lol

I've stolen Jelly's string compression

I'm even fetching the dictionary contents from the python script, by figuring out the exact locations

Seggan

mine is mostly inspired by jelly

ok fixed it. apparently my base-94 to base-10 converter wasnt working right

emanresu A

Guess what base my string compression uses

thejonymyster

nice

Seggan

@emanresuA 256?

emanresu A

21:55

Less

Seggan

also apparently removing 2 char words from my dictionary makes the compression work better

@emanresuA 128?

emanresu A

Higher

Seggan

200?

thejonymyster

@emanresuA aw i was hoping itd be 69 so that my preemptive "nice" would seem wise

emanresu A

Hint: It's close to a power of 2, but by strings have builtiple terminators

Seggan

21:57

254

emanresu A

very close

It's 253

thejonymyster

what are the exceptions

emanresu A

There's a UTF-8 string terminator, a charcode list terminator and a compressed string terminator

@RadvylfPrograms Would you mind accepting this, since it seems to be the consensus?

Also this should probably be VTC'd as a dupe of that

thejonymyster

22:15

dennis has more votes though

emanresu A

Dennis is in the past

thejonymyster

lol

whatever happens, make sure to update this as well. the 7 link points to it, and youd probably want to add the thing about fractional bytes to the top half instead of language specific things

but yea im down /shrug

just wanna make sure our systems about rules make sense is all

emanresu A

Well, Hello, World compressed and decompressed became heugh< Tan taint kamaaina,MX alnicoes

thejonymyster

arguably closer

emanresu A

Attempted a fix, it's now firstM waled Noah ahriman5lefor ABA

thejonymyster

22:24

maybe start with something simpler :P

Seggan

22:36

@emanresuA thats wayyy too long

emanresu A

It works now!

Turns out I was accidentally duplicating bits :p

thejonymyster

give us the hello world

so we can rate

DLosc

@emanresuA Sounds like some bizarre incantation

emanresu A

þËóæf, and then an EOF (I think, my terminal is sus) or in hex 1f119024989a2c66e6e49e1df3cbfe

Hmm, it should not be that long... one moment

Seggan

@DLosc ive had stranger things™ come out of mine

caird coinheringaahing

22:45

*eldritch horrors slowly arise from the deep and devour emanresu*

emanresu A

Weird... hyper's compression alg is being sus

I hope I didn't break something

Seggan

or just use mine :P

Radvylf Programs

emanresu's implementing the Jelly algo right?

Seggan

their own version of it

caird coinheringaahing

FWIW, I've fully described the algorithm here

emanresu A

22:50

I used that :P

caird coinheringaahing

Nice :P

emanresu A

Nvm, turns out I'm a sussy baka

I gave the dictionary to hyper's alg in the wrong format

So it did ASCII char compression

It's still being sus, and now it's decompressing to H zZZ hetaeristGlucansuAahing

Radvylf Programs

(sleeping) Hetero-est glucose? AAAAAAAHHHH

Bubbler

@Seggan You might want to use bijective base 94 to get the full potential

caird coinheringaahing

@RadvylfPrograms Can't be having Hetero-est glucose during Pride Month

des54321

23:02

soooo did LYAL just not happen last night?

caird coinheringaahing

doesn't appear so

Bubbler

Technically we still have an hour to start one :P

user

We could do a brainfuck LYAL

Radvylf Programs

Have we covered the major half-byte golfing langs?

user

I don't think we can cover one of those in an hour

caird coinheringaahing

23:06

@Bubbler Nothing stopping us from doing it a day late :P

user

True

Bubbler

I think the event lasts for ~24 hours regardless of when we start

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Perform division for fuzzy numbers Objective Given two "fuzzy" numbers (as defined below), perform division between them. Definition Here, a fuzzy number consists of two integers: \$n\$ and \$r\$. It indicates that the number is from a measurement, and thus may carry an error. The measured number...

emanresu A

Update: HW is 1f31c8b9657e8efe in hex

= 8 bytes

= 61 bits

caird coinheringaahing

23:21

8 bytes doesn't equal 61 bits lol :P

Radvylf Programs

There are actually 7.625 bits in a byte, you hear 8 sometimes but that's a scheme from the HDD manufacturers (those are actually kibibits/Kibs, not kilobits/Kbs)

caird coinheringaahing

@RadvylfPrograms Nah, that's a scam. There's actually 7.75 bits per byte, but every 8th byte actually has 6.75 bytes, due to random bit loss

user

"Random bit loss" is what they tell but it's really the bloatware they install on all your bytes

Most Linux bytes actually let you use the full 7.75 bits

caird coinheringaahing

I thought Linux provides a 9 bit byte?

forest

I am so confused.

With very few exceptions, a byte is 8 bi- oh it's a joke.

caird coinheringaahing

23:29

@forest No, there are 13.5 bi- in a byte, it's a common misconcepion

forest

:^)

Radvylf Programs

@forest Long chains of jokes presented as legitimate information is a common occurence here :p

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Arch does, but no one can get it working

caird coinheringaahing

Everything said in this chat room is 100% factual

17

Radvylf Programs

We probably would've gone on for half a transcript page about bits and bites and byts and kilokibis and hard drives and the kelly-bootle standard unit if the chain hadn't been broken :p

user

23:30

@cairdcoinheringaahing If it's on the starboard, it must be true :P

caird coinheringaahing

@RadvylfPrograms kilokibits? Stop talking about gym equipment, we're talking about computers

Aiden Chow

:\, i was actually kinda believing this until user talk about bloatware or whatever lol

user

It is 100% true

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing every 8th byte has 6.75 bytes?

:P

caird coinheringaahing

@AidenChow @user was paid by bloatware companies to make people disbelieve this

Radvylf Programs

23:32

@hyper-neutrino Bytes are defined recursively

user

@AidenChow Yesterday after my Windows updated I noticed a huge slowdown in my download speeds and saw that they'd installed Sudoku and extra telemetry on all my bytes

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Please 11? 🥺 👉👈

user

No no leave it like that

hyper-neutrino

because you used those emojis, no

(:P)

caird coinheringaahing

 🥺
👉👈

user

23:33

There are two kinds of bytes: big boy bytes and smol bytes. Every 8th byte is a big boy byte and contains 6.75 smol bytes

forest

Nybble is a cute word.

user

How do you define cute?

Bubbler

cut-e

forest

It just... is.

user

Because I never thought 2 bytes could be thought of as cute

caird coinheringaahing

23:35

Cats per unit adorable

forest

It's kawaii.

Radvylf Programs

@user A nibble is half a bite

user

@forest Zero hits for "cute" here

forest

And a nybble is half a byte then.

user

I don't think your definition of nybble is valid

forest

23:36

@user Some words are cute, some aren't. Like, a QWORD is not cute.

att

idk that's kinda qt

forest

Cuter than a DWORD maybe.

user

@forest If a nybble is half a byte, how can it also be a word, which is 2 bytes?

caird coinheringaahing

Word is 4 bytes

Unrelated String

@user that sounds like a fault with the article

forest

23:37

@cairdcoinheringaahing It's 8 bytes in UTF-16.

user

Yeah someone should edit that in

@forest Only heathens use UTF-16

forest

Windows uses UTF-16 internally for almost everything. So yes, I agree.

Radvylf Programs

@forest UTF-16 is for sadists and masochists

user

Jelly SBCS gang rise up! :P

caird coinheringaahing

In my custom encoding Word is 1/2 a byte

forest

23:38

But it's better than UTF-32. It's only used by serial killers.

Radvylf Programs

UTF-32 is cool!

user

It's usually not needed

forest

It's cool in the same way an icepick through the brain is cool, sure.

But there's never a reason not to use UTF-8. Almost never.

user

Here on CGCC there's always a reason not to use UTF-8

7

Radvylf Programs

Even though you waste a third of the space, it allows O(1) indexing of scalar values

caird coinheringaahing

23:39

@forest If you're in a location where you need an icepick, then yes, this scenario is probably cool :P

user

That's about it though

Unrelated String

my Word installation is 1,642,496 bytes :P

forest

@user Fair enough. :P

Radvylf Programs

My Chat-on-Chat uses a custom encoding that fits ASCII into 1 byte, most of the BMP into 2 bytes, and everything else into 3

user

*used

RIP CoC

Radvylf Programs

23:41

It's designed to be able to run on any room just by changing a constant in the code

user

But is it the same Chat-on-Chat then or is it Theseus's ship?

Radvylf Programs

Chat-on-Chat exists to abstract away details about SE chat, so the first one :p

user

Might want to check it again tho

Fellas, if your code:
- Runs perfectly
- Has no bugs
- Doesn't use floats but floats in water
That's not your code. That's Theseus's ship

forest

"Isn't made of metal"? I thought the ship was wooden.

user

Yeah, that's why it's Theseus's ship

If it's made of metal it's not the ship

caird coinheringaahing

23:44

@user My code isn't made of metal, it's made of electricity

user

You know what, I'll change that last one to something else

Jo King

@cairdcoinheringaahing i say the secret words and my daemons execute my bidding

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing idk about you but mine is made of crabs

caird coinheringaahing

@JoKing The nasal daemons?

@user *crab noises*

I'm proud I could find two distinct, related links to both of those messages :P

thejonymyster

heres three

forest

23:50

@thejonymyster Nice try. URL shows on hover.

caird coinheringaahing

@thejonymyster Interesting try

thejonymyster

if you read the hover youve already been hit

caird coinheringaahing

That's literally not how that works

forest

@thejonymyster I read the hover for everything.

caird coinheringaahing

The only defence is to read the hover

thejonymyster

23:51

youtube url isnt the lyrics to never gonna give you up but this wikipedia link is :P

idk im being silly

Neil

@forest well, at least it isn't supposed to be pronounced 6...

thejonymyster

unrelated: why are there so many gaps in unicode

forest

@Neil 6?

Radvylf Programs

Future proofing

forest

Oh

vi = 6

Radvylf Programs

23:52

They don't wanna have to be like "welp we ran out of space, sorry, your language is cringe"

thejonymyster

@RadvylfPrograms oh sorry not what i meant

i meant like why are so many things missing lol

Radvylf Programs

As in, in your computer's font?

thejonymyster

like theres upside down a c e g h but not upside down b d f

no i mean like, at all

Radvylf Programs

@thejonymyster Oh, since those sorts of things are added for certain purposes

caird coinheringaahing

@thejonymyster FWIW, the lyrics to the song, as reading the lyrics doesn't count as rickrolling

Radvylf Programs

23:54

If a pre-existing character set has upside down a, then they'll add upside down a, but they haven't found the time or found it necessary to ensure there's upside down variants of every letter

thejonymyster

luigi this isnt an explanation link

honestly its a "let the song play out" kind of night

caird coinheringaahing

The problem with rickrolling is that the song is a legit banger :P

thejonymyster

@RadvylfPrograms fair enough, i just feel like if i were making unicode id do every like, variant set all in one go

Radvylf Programs

Since rendering text upside down is more of a way of presenting the text than the text itself, Unicode probably won't add it

thejonymyster

fair enough :P

Radvylf Programs

23:55

I'm still mad at the Unicode Consortium for the math fonts thing

thejonymyster

run it by me?

caird coinheringaahing

@RadvylfPrograms But I need my italic subset symbol

Radvylf Programs

@thejonymyster There are bold, monospace, italicized, etc. variants of english and greek letters in Unicode

For math stuff, supposedly

thejonymyster

oml

all of those should be combining diacritics :P

Unrelated String

i feel like monospace is not for math :P

caird coinheringaahing

23:57

Monospace is almost exclusively for code; everything doesn't care :P

Radvylf Programs

𝘚𝘶𝘱𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘴

𝗕𝗼𝗹𝗱 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗕𝗿𝗮𝘀𝗵

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