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4:00 PM
If you use C++, chances are you learned it a while ago. People still have to learn Java all the time.
So there's going to be a lot of people who learned Java and are now picking up another, more interesting or useful second language
 
Something tells me the US salary stats involved a bit of exaggeration
I'd love to know where I can get paid $100k to be a student
 
I think that should have said -$100k
 
@RadvylfPrograms silicon valley
but the cost of living is also higher
 
Oh, true
 
4:04 PM
"Do you feel like a part of the community on StackOverflow"?
raises eyebrows
 
i dont feel welcome that neither
 
That's a smart way to hide the fact that 60% of your users feel unwelcome. Pit them against one another.
 
CGCC is much more of a community
 
"Do you feel like you have individual freedom?"
 
We're small enough that we can think through each post like humans, greet new users, and know a bit about most of the active users, but big enough that there's still new questions approximately daily, which I think is a good middle ground
 
4:08 PM
@Seggan Well, SO is big enough that it's more multiple communities, not one single community
 
@RadvylfPrograms To be fair, the way it's phrased, I would've said "no" because I don't really participate in StackOverflow. But I don't feel unwelcome per se.
 
Yeah, just noticed that
 
that was kinda my fault for misreading the title
 
Ah, I see
 
thats a lie
if they took the survey they visited the network
 
4:12 PM
Not necessarily, you could be emailed a link to the survey by a friend
And the survey's through a 3rd party
 
wait it is?
nvm then
 
Ugh, why do so many people need to get Master's degrees? Puts the pressure on the rest of us to get them too :|
 
I wonder if the degree has to be in something relevant (or if they bother checking)
 
I mean, even a general Master's in CS would probably be an advantage, although more specialized degrees would be better for some jobs
Oh you mean did the SO survey check what the degrees was in
 
@user arguably, the same goes for bachelors'
 
4:17 PM
Right, but those are easier to get and some higher education before getting into a job is probably helpful
 
@user Idk about everyone else, but I'm on a master's programme to further delay me leaving education and having to deal with the real world :P
 
>:| It's because of you that we can't have nice things
Once you do enter the real world, you'll be a heck of a lot more impressive than me (well, if you go into the same field ig)
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing then do a PhD, then work as a postdoc, and accidentally get a job, all at the same university! That way, you never will!
 
@pxeger I mean, I am thinking about doing a PhD :P
 
Dr. Caird
or I guess Dr. Coinheringaahing
 
4:22 PM
I wonder how many CGCC users have PhDs
 
Dennis does, and I think Martin does
 
I think there was a Jelly user who was a doctor but idk if they were a medical doctor or a PhD
 
Looks like ais523 does
 
PhiNotPi does as well, as does isaacg
Interestingly, they were both students at the same uni:
Mar 19, 2019 at 17:20, by PhiNotPi
Ayy I got accepted to a PhD program at Carnegie Mellon.
Mar 19, 2019 at 19:04, by isaacg
@PhiNotPi I'm a PhD student at CMU right now, congratulations!
 
Oh huh, that's where I'm wanting to go
(for a bachelor's degree, at least)
(once 2028 hits I have absolutely no clue what I'll do)
 
4:29 PM
Probably drink some water
 
In 2016, I wanted to do chemistry at uni :P
 
My current plan is run for president but I'm missing some steps along the way
 
Based on some online digging, I think xnor has a PhD
 
@RadvylfPrograms Step 1: Turn 35. Step 2: Win the 2044 US election
 
Apr 9, 2016 at 18:38, by Alex A.
If I'm not mistaken, xnor is a PhD student at MIT researching quantum computing stuff.
 
4:35 PM
@pxeger Fatalize also, and IIRC JoKing is currently studying for one
 
This message is kinda ambiguous, but I think Zgarb has one too chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/240?m=26041265#26041265
 
@DLosc wow i never knew the ais was initials. very cool
drais523
 
Jun 19, 2017 at 8:17, by ais523
because my job is to take programming techniques that have never worked before (typically because they've only just been invented), and try to make them work in at least a "small demonstration" sense
That sounds like a really cool job (not that I would be able to do it :P)
 
4:51 PM
i read the phd thesis and it said it was for philosophy? but its like hardcore math / comp sci?
am i missing something :P
 
There's a fine line between abstract math and philosophy sometimes
 
Basically, it's just a non-medical doctorate
 
A PhD means "doctor of philosophy", but if you have a PhD in maths, then you're a "doctor of philosophy of maths"
The "philosophy" part is pretty irrelevant
 
If you get a PhD in Philosophy of Maths, are you a "doctor of philosophy of philosophy of maths"? :P
 
what's the associativity of the "of" operator?
 
4:56 PM
Left associative, obviously
 
barely related, but is there a well defined way to make an op that, for example, associates a . b . c . d => (a.b).(c.d)
the of thing make me think of it lol
 
(doctor of philosophy) of (philosophy of maths)
 
exactly
i can think of a way to implement it for example
but not rigorously define it besides just to quote the implementation :P
 
it's a binary tree of ofs of ofs
 
ahh thank you
binary tree, that helps
 
 
2 hours later…
6:37 PM
Risky works a bit like that
E.g., xyzabcd is parsed as (x y z) a (b c d)
 
7:11 PM
ultra infix
 
I called it oddfix, since it actually parses differently based on if the program length is even/odd (and it's recursive, so a 9-byte program would be two even-length programs joined with a dyadic operator)
 
nice
 
7:34 PM
i like it yea
 
@thejonymyster flip flip (.) . (((.) . (.) . (.)) .) . (.) according to pointfree.io
 
> Chef developers are the highest paid
> Chef
 
@emanresuA yeah, Chef developers
 
Yeah I know
Whyyyyy
 
7:57 PM
i figured it was a typo for chief
 
I think (x, y) = (y, x) or [x, y] = [y, x] is a much more sensible syntax for destructuring assignment than Python's x, y = y, x. Opinions?
 
They're both reasonable
 
I guess, assuming assignment's a statement like in Python, but x, y = y, x just feels like it's lacking some sort of structure
 
You can use (x, y) = (y, x) or [x, y] = [y, x] in Python as well, btw
I think (x, y) = (y, x) is the best option
 
8:30 PM
i love refreshing and watching the mathjax cycle through each phase of formatting. its so weird to me that it even does that
 
Yeah, not sure what's up with that. Maybe to do with fonts, or browser compat?
My laptop's fast enough I don't actually see it load anymore, but it was definitely noticeable on my old one
 
i'm on my work computer :P so nothing fancy
 
Ooh with mathjax in H1s it definitely is noticeable due to the size, looks like it goes through both serif and sans-serif fonts before finding a math one which is weire
 
yesss exactly :D isnt nature beautiful
 
The birds are chirping, the code is golfing, the mathjax is loading
10
 
8:33 PM
i guess i always figured the formatting was done ahead of time
 
8:47 PM
has anyone noticed the recent influx of messages on the starboard?
recent as in the past 2 weeks
were going through a full starboard in 3 days
 
Yeah, and they're a bit more off-topic now
Kinda going back to how it used to be
 
@Seggan That's pretty normal I think
 
nah
we used to have messages on the board for a week or 2
 
Only recently when we got serious about off-topic stuff
 
It varies a lot. We go through periods of inactivity, periods of more on-topic or off-topic discussion, etc.
 
8:50 PM
@thejonymyster the very first answer uses it :P
@RadvylfPrograms true
 
I don't see any issue with our current starboard. Every message there is coding or CGCC related in some obvious way, and it's not covering up anything important or filled with any particularly unfunny jokes.
 
i never said there was any issue
i was pointing out the fact that were going through a full board faster than we used to
 
I know, just saying there's not really any issue with the fact that we are
It's a pretty marked improvement from 2015 at the very least :p
 
9:15 PM
CMP: Should I use that extra bit in my compression system for run length encoding or to mark a char as uppercase, thereby reducing the compression codepage and making compressed stuff smaller?
 
Both good options, RLE might be more useful though
 
i was actually thinking the other way around
its not that often i need strings that are easily RLE compressed
 
9:49 PM
oof
i thought my compressor worked perfectly
Hello, World! gave me a number that decompressed correctly
but when i tried turning that number into a base 94 string
i got ']kYFeL3. then i stuck it into the decompressor
and i got Now explain
 
Lol
I've stolen Jelly's string compression
I'm even fetching the dictionary contents from the python script, by figuring out the exact locations
 
mine is mostly inspired by jelly
ok fixed it. apparently my base-94 to base-10 converter wasnt working right
 
Guess what base my string compression uses
 
@emanresuA 256?
 
9:55 PM
Less
 
also apparently removing 2 char words from my dictionary makes the compression work better
@emanresuA 128?
 
Higher
 
200?
 
@emanresuA aw i was hoping itd be 69 so that my preemptive "nice" would seem wise
 
Hint: It's close to a power of 2, but by strings have builtiple terminators
 
9:57 PM
254
 
very close
It's 253
 
what are the exceptions
 
There's a UTF-8 string terminator, a charcode list terminator and a compressed string terminator
@RadvylfPrograms Would you mind accepting this, since it seems to be the consensus?
Also this should probably be VTC'd as a dupe of that
 
10:15 PM
dennis has more votes though
 
Dennis is in the past
 
lol
whatever happens, make sure to update this as well. the 7 link points to it, and youd probably want to add the thing about fractional bytes to the top half instead of language specific things
but yea im down /shrug
just wanna make sure our systems about rules make sense is all
 
Well, Hello, World compressed and decompressed became heugh< Tan taint kamaaina,MX alnicoes
 
arguably closer
 
Attempted a fix, it's now firstM waled Noah ahriman5lefor ABA
 
10:24 PM
maybe start with something simpler :P
 
10:36 PM
@emanresuA thats wayyy too long
 
It works now!
Turns out I was accidentally duplicating bits :p
 
give us the hello world
so we can rate
 
@emanresuA Sounds like some bizarre incantation
 
þËóæf, and then an EOF (I think, my terminal is sus) or in hex 1f119024989a2c66e6e49e1df3cbfe
Hmm, it should not be that long... one moment
 
@DLosc ive had stranger thingsโ„ข come out of mine
 
10:45 PM
*eldritch horrors slowly arise from the deep and devour emanresu*
 
Weird... hyper's compression alg is being sus
I hope I didn't break something
 
or just use mine :P
 
emanresu's implementing the Jelly algo right?
 
their own version of it
 
FWIW, I've fully described the algorithm here
 
10:50 PM
I used that :P
 
Nvm, turns out I'm a sussy baka
I gave the dictionary to hyper's alg in the wrong format
So it did ASCII char compression
It's still being sus, and now it's decompressing to H zZZ hetaeristGlucansuAahing
 
(sleeping) Hetero-est glucose? AAAAAAAHHHH
 
@Seggan You might want to use bijective base 94 to get the full potential
 
@RadvylfPrograms Can't be having Hetero-est glucose during Pride Month
 
11:02 PM
soooo did LYAL just not happen last night?
 
doesn't appear so
 
Technically we still have an hour to start one :P
 
We could do a brainfuck LYAL
 
Have we covered the major half-byte golfing langs?
 
I don't think we can cover one of those in an hour
 
11:06 PM
@Bubbler Nothing stopping us from doing it a day late :P
 
True
 
I think the event lasts for ~24 hours regardless of when we start
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Dannyu NDosPerform division for fuzzy numbers Objective Given two "fuzzy" numbers (as defined below), perform division between them. Definition Here, a fuzzy number consists of two integers: \$n\$ and \$r\$. It indicates that the number is from a measurement, and thus may carry an error. The measured number...

 
Update: HW is 1f31c8b9657e8efe in hex
= 8 bytes
= 61 bits
 
11:21 PM
8 bytes doesn't equal 61 bits lol :P
 
There are actually 7.625 bits in a byte, you hear 8 sometimes but that's a scheme from the HDD manufacturers (those are actually kibibits/Kibs, not kilobits/Kbs)
 
@RadvylfPrograms Nah, that's a scam. There's actually 7.75 bits per byte, but every 8th byte actually has 6.75 bytes, due to random bit loss
 
"Random bit loss" is what they tell but it's really the bloatware they install on all your bytes
Most Linux bytes actually let you use the full 7.75 bits
 
I thought Linux provides a 9 bit byte?
 
I am so confused.
With very few exceptions, a byte is 8 bi- oh it's a joke.
 
11:29 PM
@forest No, there are 13.5 bi- in a byte, it's a common misconcepion
 
:^)
 
@forest Long chains of jokes presented as legitimate information is a common occurence here :p
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Arch does, but no one can get it working
 
Everything said in this chat room is 100% factual
17
 
We probably would've gone on for half a transcript page about bits and bites and byts and kilokibis and hard drives and the kelly-bootle standard unit if the chain hadn't been broken :p
 
11:30 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing If it's on the starboard, it must be true :P
 
@RadvylfPrograms kilokibits? Stop talking about gym equipment, we're talking about computers
 
:\, i was actually kinda believing this until user talk about bloatware or whatever lol
 
It is 100% true
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing every 8th byte has 6.75 bytes?
:P
 
@AidenChow @user was paid by bloatware companies to make people disbelieve this
 
11:32 PM
@hyper-neutrino Bytes are defined recursively
 
@AidenChow Yesterday after my Windows updated I noticed a huge slowdown in my download speeds and saw that they'd installed Sudoku and extra telemetry on all my bytes
 
@hyper-neutrino Please 11? ๐Ÿฅบ ๐Ÿ‘‰๐Ÿ‘ˆ
 
No no leave it like that
 
because you used those emojis, no
(:P)
 
 🥺
👉👈
 
11:33 PM
There are two kinds of bytes: big boy bytes and smol bytes. Every 8th byte is a big boy byte and contains 6.75 smol bytes
 
Nybble is a cute word.
 
How do you define cute?
 
cut-e
 
It just... is.
 
Because I never thought 2 bytes could be thought of as cute
 
11:35 PM
Cats per unit adorable
 
It's kawaii.
 
@user A nibble is half a bite
 
@forest Zero hits for "cute" here
 
And a nybble is half a byte then.
 
I don't think your definition of nybble is valid
 
11:36 PM
@user Some words are cute, some aren't. Like, a QWORD is not cute.
 
att
idk that's kinda qt
 
Cuter than a DWORD maybe.
 
@forest If a nybble is half a byte, how can it also be a word, which is 2 bytes?
 
Word is 4 bytes
 
@user that sounds like a fault with the article
 
11:37 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing It's 8 bytes in UTF-16.
 
Yeah someone should edit that in
@forest Only heathens use UTF-16
 
Windows uses UTF-16 internally for almost everything. So yes, I agree.
 
@forest UTF-16 is for sadists and masochists
 
Jelly SBCS gang rise up! :P
 
In my custom encoding Word is 1/2 a byte
 
11:38 PM
But it's better than UTF-32. It's only used by serial killers.
 
UTF-32 is cool!
 
It's usually not needed
 
It's cool in the same way an icepick through the brain is cool, sure.
But there's never a reason not to use UTF-8. Almost never.
 
Here on CGCC there's always a reason not to use UTF-8
7
 
Even though you waste a third of the space, it allows O(1) indexing of scalar values
 
11:39 PM
@forest If you're in a location where you need an icepick, then yes, this scenario is probably cool :P
 
That's about it though
 
my Word installation is 1,642,496 bytes :P
 
@user Fair enough. :P
 
My Chat-on-Chat uses a custom encoding that fits ASCII into 1 byte, most of the BMP into 2 bytes, and everything else into 3
 
*used
RIP CoC
 
11:41 PM
It's designed to be able to run on any room just by changing a constant in the code
 
But is it the same Chat-on-Chat then or is it Theseus's ship?
 
Chat-on-Chat exists to abstract away details about SE chat, so the first one :p
 
Might want to check it again tho
Fellas, if your code:
- Runs perfectly
- Has no bugs
- Doesn't use floats but floats in water
That's not your code. That's Theseus's ship
 
"Isn't made of metal"? I thought the ship was wooden.
 
Yeah, that's why it's Theseus's ship
If it's made of metal it's not the ship
 
11:44 PM
@user My code isn't made of metal, it's made of electricity
 
You know what, I'll change that last one to something else
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing i say the secret words and my daemons execute my bidding
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing idk about you but mine is made of crabs
 
I'm proud I could find two distinct, related links to both of those messages :P
 
11:50 PM
@thejonymyster Nice try. URL shows on hover.
 
@thejonymyster Interesting try
 
if you read the hover youve already been hit
 
That's literally not how that works
 
@thejonymyster I read the hover for everything.
 
The only defence is to read the hover
 
11:51 PM
youtube url isnt the lyrics to never gonna give you up but this wikipedia link is :P
idk im being silly
 
@forest well, at least it isn't supposed to be pronounced 6...
 
unrelated: why are there so many gaps in unicode
 
@Neil 6?
 
Future proofing
 
Oh
vi = 6
 
11:52 PM
They don't wanna have to be like "welp we ran out of space, sorry, your language is cringe"
 
@RadvylfPrograms oh sorry not what i meant
i meant like why are so many things missing lol
 
As in, in your computer's font?
 
like theres upside down a c e g h but not upside down b d f
no i mean like, at all
 
@thejonymyster Oh, since those sorts of things are added for certain purposes
 
@thejonymyster FWIW, the lyrics to the song, as reading the lyrics doesn't count as rickrolling
 
11:54 PM
If a pre-existing character set has upside down a, then they'll add upside down a, but they haven't found the time or found it necessary to ensure there's upside down variants of every letter
 
luigi this isnt an explanation link
honestly its a "let the song play out" kind of night
 
The problem with rickrolling is that the song is a legit banger :P
 
@RadvylfPrograms fair enough, i just feel like if i were making unicode id do every like, variant set all in one go
 
Since rendering text upside down is more of a way of presenting the text than the text itself, Unicode probably won't add it
 
fair enough :P
 
11:55 PM
I'm still mad at the Unicode Consortium for the math fonts thing
 
run it by me?
 
@RadvylfPrograms But I need my italic subset symbol
 
@thejonymyster There are bold, monospace, italicized, etc. variants of english and greek letters in Unicode
For math stuff, supposedly
 
oml
all of those should be combining diacritics :P
 
i feel like monospace is not for math :P
 
11:57 PM
Monospace is almost exclusively for code; everything doesn't care :P
 
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