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lyxal
lyxal
12:00 AM
Woah what happened here?
 
rues
rues
Someone decided to replicate Van Gogh's work :P
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Lyxal was this your doing? Your timing was pretty sus :p
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
well, the stars are clean now :)
sips the coffee
 
lyxal
lyxal
@RedwolfPrograms I don't star spam TNB
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
Oh lol every time the starboard is updated the card with "cancel stars" button is cancelled, awesome UX
 
lyxal
lyxal
12:01 AM
@RedwolfPrograms Only niche fringe rooms
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
@lyxal Ik ik
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@Bubbler hehe yeah you noticed that too?
was trying to help so :P
 
New Posts
New Posts
0
Q: AoCG2021 Day 2: Naughty or nice?

BubblerPart of Advent of Code Golf 2021 event. See the linked meta post for details. The story continues from AoC2015 Day 5, Part 2. Santa needs help figuring out which strings in his text file are naughty or nice. He has already tried two sets of rules, but they're totally ad-hoc, cumbersome, and jank...

code-golf string decision-problem
 
lyxal
lyxal
@RedwolfPrograms I know it wasn't me because I was too busy hanging washing out lol
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Okay, whoever's doing the star spam, it's not cool
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
12:01 AM
and you will get chat banned for it
 
rues
rues
It's not possible to put a timeout on stars, right?
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Nope
Not with RO tools, at least. Mods might have something.
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
nope, but it is possible to get chat banned, so don't make me have to start kicking those around to prevent star spam.
 
rues
rues
Well, I don't want to name any names, but Sandbox Posts is looking kinda sus
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
i will deploy those against non-ROs for 'timeouts' until people get the idea
 
lyxal
lyxal
12:02 AM
Whoever is star spamming: do it here if you want
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
@RedwolfPrograms But you can star stuff even in galleries, frozen rooms, and timeout'd rooms, so I doubt there's much thought put into stopping star spam
 
Sandbox Posts
Sandbox Posts
@rues D:
 
rues
rues
Aha, I knew it! You've been exposed, bot!
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
accidentally injects a memory overflow attack that is successful into @SandboxPosts's calls stack
oooops :)
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
Ok, so... the star spam has stopped.
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
12:05 AM
ye, pretty sure people want to AVOID being chat banned ;)
 
lyxal
lyxal
Fun idea: anti-sandbox-posts : a bot that posts antonyms of sandbox posts
5
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@lyxal or, in other words, any actual question or puzzle posted to the site :P
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
@lyxal I would totally upvote a meta proposal for that
 
Sandbox Posts
Sandbox Posts
I've always wanted an evil twin
2
 
lyxal
lyxal
@RedwolfPrograms I wonder if OpenAI would approve such an application request
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
12:06 AM
gravelunbox-deletes
 
Unrelated String
Unrelated String
ahah
 
rues
rues
I feel like I might be the evil twin lol
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
hah, nah, the microsoft scammer/spammer that keeps hammering SE sites and getting beaten hard by the Smoke Detector and reviewers is the 'evil twin' of the people here :P
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
There should definitely be an RO tool that lets you select a group of messages and decrement their star counts
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@RedwolfPrograms and a RO/mod/diamond tool to just totally nuke the starboard, too
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
12:09 AM
And starring should definitely only be allowed when you have write access (so not in galleries or frozen/timeout'd rooms)
Maybe it could be an RO option to choose whether starring is allowed with write access or not
Hey I wonder, could you star a message in a private room if you know the ID?
 
Unrelated String
Unrelated String
...
i
would actually not be surprised
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Lemme scrape the request format real quick, then I'll try it if a mod can get me a message id to test on
 
rues
rues
Software: *exists*
Redwolf: How can I abuse this?
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@RedwolfPrograms Just ask either Thomas or HN to create a private room for you to test :P
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Okay, I have a function written and tested to star a message given an ID
Now I just need a mod to either make a private room, or more easily, just find the ID of a message in some non-important private room
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
12:14 AM
Just give Redwolf access to TL, see how that goes :P
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Well no the point is I need to not have access to the room :p
If you can star stuff in gallery rooms you're not in, I wouldn't be surprised if you could star stuff in private rooms
I don't wanna ping HN though since I've already asked him do stuff like twice today lol
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Hmm, I could try to find the private room me and HN used ages ago, but no guarantees :P
Huh, I don't think private rooms are searchable, even if you have access, unless you're a mod (maybe?)
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
You might be able to look through all of your sent messages (like I did to find my first TNB message), but that's a lot of work for like no real reason lol
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
I think Thomas has gone to get food, so he's probably not around either atm
 
lyxal
lyxal
@cairdcoinheringaahing pretty sure they should be searchable if you have access
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
12:20 AM
Oh hey Jo King
 
tjjfvi
tjjfvi
Look, a mod!
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Do you want to do some science?
 
tjjfvi
tjjfvi
Speak of the devil mod
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@lyxal Well, I can't be bothered to try to find it to test, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
You might've lost access after some time, like what happened with the bakery
 
Jo King
Jo King
12:21 AM
wait, what am i doing?
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Can you get the message id of a message in a private room? Redowlf wants to try to star it
 
Jo King
Jo King
"59753176" is the last message in the 20th byte
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Nope, it 404'd. So I guess you can't.
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Makes sense :P
 
Jo King
Jo King
that room's also frozen, let me see grab one from a non-frozen room
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
12:23 AM
@RedwolfPrograms That actually makes sense, since it's message_id/star and not just /star with the ID in the POST body
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
I love that the mod rooms are so often frozen, cause mods don't get affect by freezes :P
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
@JoKing No don't worry about it, it being frozen wouldn't have any effect anyway
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
IIRC the TL was frozen for like 5 years because no one bothered to unfreeze it
 
rues
rues
lol
No one was bothered by the room card showing up shaded?
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Not being a mod, and relying only on some half-remembered comment I saw years ago, I can't say :P
 
Jo King
Jo King
12:25 AM
i do get kinda annoyed by having to click "show frozen/deleted rooms" to see it, but not enough to unfreeze it every 14 days
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Idea: Rooms that are like anti-galleries where you have write access but not read access
 
rues
rues
...what would you use those for lol
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Exactly, it's pointless and stupid :p
Actually that's sort of just like a suggestion box
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@RedwolfPrograms isn't that basically piping to /dev/null?
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Or a voting box, or any other box you drop papers in
@ThomasWard I'd imagine mods could still read it
And maybe ROs
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
12:28 AM
but otherwise pointless
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Yeah, I never said it was a good idea :p
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
totally fake challenge: make a write-only program that takes no input and spits out the following: "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Ut hendrerit varius convallis. Sed sodales vel nulla nec elementum." And make it so we can't read the program code. :P
because that's basically the idea being discussed now for chat rooms xD
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Bubblegum's time to shine :P
 
tjjfvi
tjjfvi
@ThomasWard [REDACTED], [REDACTED] bytes: [REDACTED]
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@RedwolfPrograms I think that defence works for like 80% of ideas people post here :P
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
12:34 AM
OMG i made Truth machine using only lambdas. @Rɪᴋᴇʀ Said with only lambdas, it's impossible to do real loops but it's wrong.
 
tjjfvi
tjjfvi
You can definitely do loops with lambdas
That's the whole basis of lambda calculus
> defence 
        \ /
|--|--|--X--|--|--|
        / \
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
@tjjfvi Well with Python they mean
Where TCO doesn't exist
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
@tjjfvi yeah but riker said can't make while loops in lambda
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
> defence
/dɪˈfɛns/
noun
1.
the action of defending from or resisting attack.
"methods of defence against this kind of attack"
Bloody yanks :P
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
i think i'm making a programming language
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
12:38 AM
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
CMQ: is there infinite loop in math?
 
tjjfvi
tjjfvi
n = 0
while n != 5:
    print(n)
    n += 1

# becomes

(lambda f: (lambda g: lambda x: f(g(g))(x))(lambda g: lambda x: f(g(g))(x)))(lambda f: lambda n: (lambda x: (lambda y: y))(print(n))(f(n+1) if n != 5 else n))(0)
Ugh why is code block not working
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
@Fmbalbuena I mean it depends on what you consider math lol
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
@RedwolfPrograms Full math
@tjjfvi LOOOL
 
tjjfvi
tjjfvi
@Bubbler Aw, you beat me
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
12:41 AM
@tjjfvi but don't work with from 1 to 500
due to recursion
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@Fmbalbuena Yes, infinite sums
Or any infinite set :P
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
but using (code for i in __import__("itertools").count(start=0)) is easy task to do infinite loops.
@cairdcoinheringaahing but the code must be finite
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
@Fmbalbuena There is proof technique called infinite descent where you invoke an impossible infinite loop to prove something is false
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Or, just do proof by examples :P
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
@Bubbler math?
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
12:44 AM
Yes, it is totally math
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
I mean what formula?
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
Math is not just formulas
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
or something to do infinite loop.
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@Bubbler That reminds me of my favourite proof. We aim to show that 2^(1/n) is irrational for all integers n > 2. Assume that 2^(1/n) = a/b for integers a and b. Therefore, 2 = a^n/b^n and 2b^n = b^n + b^n = a^n. However, by Fermat's Last Theorem, this must be false. Therefore, no such a, b exist
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
CMQ: Why my recent edit is declined? edit if you have more than 2000 rep
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
12:47 AM
Complete overkill to use FLT for such a proof :P
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@tjjfvi yep, pretty much! :P
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
@Fmbalbuena You don't actually have an infinite loop, you use the fact that certain kind of infinite loop is impossible (in certain systems)
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@Fmbalbuena Edits should aim to make a substantial improvement to the post. That doesn't
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
@Bubbler my formula is f() = f()
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@Fmbalbuena uhhhhm... what did you actually fix? Edits need to be substantial :P
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
12:48 AM
Example :: changes to Example:
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
How did that even pass the minimum char limit?
Did you add a comment or a bunch of ZWSPs or something?
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
@RedwolfPrograms wdym?
 
Jo King
Jo King
@Fmbalbuena did you just bold a colon? (and make invisible changes to the table)
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
@RedwolfPrograms A bunch of whitespace edits in markdown table
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@Fmbalbuena not really a substantial edit improvement.
 
Jo King
Jo King
12:50 AM
oh sorry, unbold a colon
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Especially as there's actually stuff that could be fixed rather than just the colon (tags, removing the unnecessary "Question", etc.)
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
@JoKing this makes readable. but Why not.
 
Jo King
Jo King
i don't see any changes in readability
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
i mean, the post was already readable
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
but WHY was declined?
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
12:51 AM
so removing whitespace and fixing just the 'example' bit there, it's not substantial enough
 
Jo King
Jo King
@Fmbalbuena "The edit does not improve the quality of the post. Changes to the content are unnecessary or make the post more confusing."
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
@Fmbalbuena Small edits like that bump posts to the homepage and reward reputation for basically no improvement
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@Fmbalbuena edits are supposed to be substantial improvements - your edits did not improve readability or improve anything substantially. I'm not a 2k rep level person but I can see the review task and the edits.
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
@Fmbalbuena It is not an accepted definition of f in math
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@Fmbalbuena The default is to decline edits, unless they're substantial improvements
Not to approve them, unless they're bad
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
12:51 AM
Woah that 5 pings with different users in a row
I'm a bit confused due to pings
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
yep fixed it
#TiredAndGrumpy
 
Jo King
Jo King
if that kid could read, they'd be very upset
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@Fmbalbuena the reject reason was this: "The edit does not improve the quality of the post. Changes to the content are unnecessary or make the post more confusing."
by a diamond moderator no less for the site
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
ok i understand.
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
edits are supposed to substantially improve readability or improve the post. Unfortunately, whitespace only edits that don't affect markdown rendering aren't significant enough, nor is fixing just the Example: stuff
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
12:54 AM
@Fmbalbuena Ok, edits (especially suggested edits) are supposed to be substantial improvements to a post. That's why there's a 6 char minimum edit - fixing a typo isn't "enough" of an edit. There was nothing wrong with the actual edit (in fact, in the edit I did to the post just now, I included your edit as well), it just wasn't "enough" to warrant an edit
 
hyper-neutrino
hyper-neutrino
one reason, although probably not the main and definitely not the only, to discourage trivial suggested edits like that is cuz otherwise it'd encourage people to farm rep off of just submitting meaningless tiny edits and that just wastes a lot of time and clutters the front page as well
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
If you take a look at my edit, I removed other superfluous stuff (like the "Question:") and edited tags etc. so that it wasn't just the minor markdown edit
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
@Fmbalbuena that uses itertools.count
which is probably using a while loop under the hood
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ yeah itertools is bulit in module
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
i'm aware lmao
it probably still has a while loop in it
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
12:58 AM
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ i have a question: is using only for i in range(x) and for i in itertools.count(start=0) without any loops, break and continue TC?
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@cairdcoinheringaahing Speaking of my edits, that's my 50th edit this quarter (aka since Oct 1st) :P
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
probably? but thats literally just 'python but you only do while loops in this one way'
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ one way? no thats two ways
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
the first way is a for loop not a while loop
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
@Fmbalbuena Yes if it is allowed to exit the program in the middle of the latter
Many TC languages are built with a single global while loop
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
1:00 AM
@Bubbler no breaking.
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
for i in range(x) is a for loop there, and itertools.count is just a struct with 3 fields, incrementing each time. its just going to be an infinite while loop
oh python doesn't allow you to redefine the iterator does it. then no thats not TC
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
@Fmbalbuena I mean, you could raise an exception, or call sys.exit()
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
As you can create infinite for loops, Python with only for (for looping) is probably TC
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
@Bubbler no breaking or similar
but that's OK
because with lambdas it still can do.
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
@cairdcoinheringaahing which for loops are infinite? aside from an infinite iterable
 
Alan Bagel
Alan Bagel
1:02 AM
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ for (;;) if in javascript...
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
this is python alan
oh, good catch caird. i'd forgotten that you could do that
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Blame (or thank) pxeger, I believe he introduced me to that :P
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
I thought py3 saves a copy of the iterator at the start or something (I knew py2 did'nt)
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
@Fmbalbuena Define "similar". Is it ok to write 1/0? Or use caird's construction?
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
1:04 AM
@Bubbler no, but exiting normally is FINE.
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
@Fmbalbuena And what counts as exiting normally? sys.exit(0)?
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
if you can call sys.exit it should be okay. pretty sure it's possible to flatten out any nested while loop into a set of conditions and one while loop like that
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
sys.exit() raises "repl process died unexpectedly: "
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
Think of things like FRACTRAN. The entire program is a (kind of) sequence of instruction and is conceptually wrapped in a while loop, and is still TC
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
well. that's because you're doing it in a repl
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
1:06 AM
Only if you use it in a repl
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
@cairdcoinheringaahing Try it online!
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
it exits python
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ in repl.it
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
that's... a repl
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
but...
don't outputs when "Hi"
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
1:07 AM
@Fmbalbuena that doesn't count imo, since that's abusing a while loop that's done in the c implementation of python (checked)
this does though - lambda x: [x.append(i) or i for i in x], based off caird's reminder
@Fmbalbuena sys.exit() ends python. full stop.
it would double as breaking from an infinite loop since there is no more loop
if you run that from a python file ala python test.py it will just kill the process. on a repl it errors/kills the repl
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
@Fmbalbuena See this
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
lynn@the-holodeck:~$ python
Python 2.7.18 (default, Mar  8 2021, 13:02:45)
[GCC 9.3.0] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys; sys.exit()
lynn@the-holodeck:~$
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
Exits with exit code 0 = exits normally
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
@Bubbler but in repl.it
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
It's just an issue of repl.it
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
1:09 AM
try it on your own computer
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
[Exits]
 
Alan Bagel
Alan Bagel
a = [1, 2, 3]

for i in a:
print(i)
a.append(i)
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
yeah, caird beat you to it alan
also there's a fixed font button for code format
 
Alan Bagel
Alan Bagel
what is it
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Ctrl-K
 
Alan Bagel
Alan Bagel
1:10 AM
oh yeah
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Doesn't work with replies tho
 
Alan Bagel
Alan Bagel
:59763494 a = [1, 2, 3]

for i in a:
    print(i)
    a.append(i)
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
oh yeah forgot lmao
 
Alan Bagel
Alan Bagel
um what
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
23 secs ago, by caird coinheringaahing
Doesn't work with replies tho
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
1:11 AM
replies are done in chat markdown by :<message ID number> so codeblock formatting treats that as just, more code, since you prefix it with four spaces and it does'nt know what to do
 
Alan Bagel
Alan Bagel
@cairdcoinheringaahing welp
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
that's my bad, i forgot you couldn't do that in replies when i said "there's a fixed font button"
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
:78439271 the future message
 
Jo King
Jo King
very future
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
thats gonna be a while chief
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
1:12 AM
Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@RedwolfPrograms so what if i say that math is 2 + 2 = cake?
 
Unrelated String
Unrelated String
yeahhh
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
it used to, did they change it caird?
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
@ThomasWard Then that's math :p
Of course, it's not useful math
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
The closest you can do is to post ":id blah", then edit the original message (to update it) after a message with "id" is posted
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
1:13 AM
ah yeah thats what I meant
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
@RedwolfPrograms But the universe does not know what a 2 is
 
Alan Bagel
Alan Bagel
what does o/ mean?
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
So you can make 2, +, and 2 cake if you want
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@RedwolfPrograms well it depends entirely on the definition of 'math' lol
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@cairdcoinheringaahing If you're extra good, you can just edit it without changing the id, andit'll reply
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
1:14 AM
@AlanBagel Waving hi/bye
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
@AlanBagel means
 
Alan Bagel
Alan Bagel
welp
o/
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
hi or bye.
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
@RedwolfPrograms if you're really trying to bail on the fundamental axiomsof arithmetic then you're not gonna get anywhere
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
ok so @AlanBagel will go out.
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
1:15 AM
@RedwolfPrograms and what if my math is inverted binary math
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
(there's a term my current state of mind won't let me remember for those :/)
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@ThomasWard We don't talk about that, it's still in timeout for what it did a few years ago
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ Yep. You could make 2 + 2 = cake, but you're not gonna get anywhere :p
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
(we all know my personal math is Absolute Chaos Mathematical Theory(TM) but still)
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
I'm like 70% sure that's a unit available in my fourth year :P
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
1:16 AM
lol
@cairdcoinheringaahing now, the most useless and insensible math is 2 + 2 = 2
how this happens I don't know :)
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
TIL YT ads can be livestreams
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
oh man i still have proofs homework i'm out for now
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@ThomasWard Let all numbers equal 2
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Anyway, gtg
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
@ThomasWard set arithmetic where {2} U {2} = {2}, ez
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
1:17 AM
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ Oh nice, I submitted my proofs homework earlier :P
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
(Oh no I said gtg, let the fun misinterpretations begin)
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
heh
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
@cairdcoinheringaahing god i love showing injections between random sets. nothing brings me more joy. send help
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@RedwolfPrograms gut the goat time?
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Injections are fine, surjections are awful
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
1:18 AM
'grab the goo' time?
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
i like surjections better
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
I never really got my head around surjections
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
injections aren't always easy if the function is messy and surjections are groovier
surjective is just image == codomain i htink
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ One of the questions I had was "Prove that Q is a countable set", and the hint they gave us was "Create an injective map, and use that"
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ Injective makes sense to me (x = y -> f(x) = f(y)), and bijective is "has an inverse", but surjective just doesn't "click"
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
@cairdcoinheringaahing mine is currently "show that 1. A is infinite 2. there exists an injection from N -> A 3. there exists a surjection from A -> N" are all equivalent
doable but annoying until i realized "oh infinity means beeg"
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
1:21 AM
infinity means very beeeg :P
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
its got to be hilarious for hte TAs grading this
where I just ramble for 3 paragraphs before then having all hte good content at the end. since it's my way of showing my work for proofs
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
math challenge: prove that 0 / 1 = 0
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@ThomasWard The proof follows trivially from the definition
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
"this is given by the definition of foo" <--- sentence i have written too many times to be a real mathematician (or possibly not enough)
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ My trick for questions I don't know how to answer is to just say the same 3 statements in multiple difference ways :P
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
1:23 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing when u gotta prove it both ways and its a reversible equation and you just paste your sentences in reverse order
but yeah thats what i do too and it mostly works!
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
heheh. now prove that 0 / 0 = 1 is false. >:D.
shows self out
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ No joke, a 5 mark question on an assessed bit of analysis homework (worth 5% of the unit) was "Let a_n be a sequence that [blah blah blah - equivalent to the definition of Cauchy sequences]. Prove that a_n is convergent". My answer was "By the definition of Cauchy sequences, a_n is one. Therefore, it's convergent" :P
(more or less, it was slightly better written than that :P)
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@cairdcoinheringaahing lol, nice. did you get full credit though for the answer?
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
@cairdcoinheringaahing i've definitely done something equivalent and gotten both a 0 and a 10/10 on two different occasions on two different homeworks. i blame different TAs
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@ThomasWard No idea, it's being marked atm
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
1:25 AM
Yeah, assignments are notorious for their unobservable requirements :P
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@cairdcoinheringaahing hah. let me know what you get :P
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
In fact, knowing my lecturer, it's probably being marked right now, at 1:25am :P
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
CMQ: Can i make programming language using only lambdas, print, input, itertools.count(start=0), oprerators and ternary for loops?
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@cairdcoinheringaahing so you're 5 hours ahead. UKish wherabouts I'm guessing?
or at least a UTC/GMT timezone
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Indeed
I'm guessing you're on the East Coast then?
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
1:26 AM
europeans. not based :/
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
CMQ: why i got this "You are currently suspended from suggesting edits. You will be able to suggest edits again in 7 days. In the meantime, read about how suggested edits are reviewed and visit your edit history."
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
yeah, EST is 8:27 pm rn
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
According to 51% of us, we're not europeans :P
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@cairdcoinheringaahing yep. Pennsylvania, USA.
not quite the coast, but still Eastern US time
 
Bubbler
Bubbler
@Fmbalbuena programming language, sure. TC also yes because lambdas (theoretically but not practically, because recursion limits as already mentioned before)
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
1:27 AM
Oh nice. I think that's one of the few northern east coast states I haven't been to
 
hyper-neutrino
hyper-neutrino
@Fmbalbuena because you got too many suggested edits rejected so the system banned you from doing them for a bit for quality control
looking at this, you've suggested 7 edits from november 12th to now and all of them have been rejected
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
@hyper-neutrino ok. i still can't edit.
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@Fmbalbuena I'm guessing the "read about" bit has a link? try reading the information on that link
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@hyper-neutrino afaict from that review stats of users on that last report, 100% of suggested edits from user have been reje... yeah you caught up
 
hyper-neutrino
hyper-neutrino
@Fmbalbuena yes that's the point
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
1:29 AM
@Fmbalbuena this is status-bydesign - if you have too many rejected edits, then the system will block you or rate limit you from making edits
 
Fmbalbuena
Fmbalbuena
@hyper-neutrino but i learned how edits work.
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Then wait 7 days and start applying that knowledge then
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
no way around it, it's a system imposed restriction - you need to now wait 7 days before you can suggest edits again
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
@cairdcoinheringaahing yeah, rip :/ forgot about that (unironically sucks)
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@cairdcoinheringaahing so you ARE in the UK. :P
according to 51% of you what should we call you, British? English? Chaotic?
:P
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
1:31 AM
@Fmbalbuena Take a read of this, and this
@ThomasWard I don't know, I generally don't talk to them :P
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
lol
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
nice
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
so, united kingdomite then.
:)
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
that makes them sound like a mineral
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@cairdcoinheringaahing And also this
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
1:34 AM
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ technically speaking everyone is made up of minerals and/or base elements so...
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
@ThomasWard i'd argue minerals are made up of base elements so i'm not sure your correction was super helpful :)
but fair enough
i'm personally only made of up of pure carbon. there are no other elements in my body and never shall be
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Wow, imagine not being made of pure uranium. It's very nice knowing exactly when I'll have a mid-life crisis :P
5
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
it's a hazard of living in california. the fires do that to ya after a while
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Plus the heat :P
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ well right now alcohol is part of my body but i digress.
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
1:37 AM
I love california, but holy shit is it hot :P
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
(yes it's not an 'element' but its an element of human existentence)
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
it is too hot. it is too hot. it is wayyyyyyy too hot.
 
tjjfvi
tjjfvi
@ThomasWard That’s actually one of the most useful assumptions: xkcd.com/704
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@ThomasWard Technically speaking, the alcohol is only in the tube that goes through your body, not actually in your body :P
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ well now we need to add a ton of pressure to you then and it'll create diamonds
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
1:38 AM
incorrect. it creates sadness and despair and for some reason, more proofs homework out of nowhere
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@cairdcoinheringaahing no, in this case, i broke the bottle by accident and cut my hand and some alcohol got in the cut, therefore there are some alcohol molecules in my bloodstream now.
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
(guess who just realized they've got more proofs homework. somebody mentioned cauchy and i was like wait. didn't I have to do something with those)
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@ThomasWard Oh no! That poor wasted beer :(
 
Thomas Ward
Thomas Ward
@cairdcoinheringaahing there wasn't much left in the bottle of Angry Orchard Hard Apple Cider, just a tiny tiny bit, but meh.
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
oh wow you can legally drink in the UK can't you caird
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
1:39 AM
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ Tbf, Cauchy is one of those people who shows up everywhere
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ I've been legally drinking for ~3 years now :P
Your parents can buy you alcohol once you turn 16 here
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
ah huh I thought you were my age (19ish). wack
oh, okay you are nevermind
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Yeah, I've been buying my own alcohol for the past year or so :P
The history of alcohol laws in the US are some of the most anti-American things I can think of :P
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
same rules here, and for any cops spying on me, i promise i've had my parents here every time i got wasted 100% god's truth your honor
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Prohibition was literally funded by income tax, because the federal government lost all their money from taxing alcohol. Then the laws on increasing the age limit were primarily driven by religious groups. It literally contradicts the whole libertarianism stuff that's unique to the US, and the whole "The US is supposed to be secular" thing
 
tjjfvi
tjjfvi
@cairdcoinheringaahing Fringe Christian values being codified into law for everyone (excluding, you know, when in a Christian rite)? Sounds on brand to me
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
1:45 AM
@tjjfvi ok 1. we are NOT having a religious debate here. at all. no. 2. that's also false, any/all religious use of alcohol was allowed, including at least judaism, it was just highly regulated
@cairdcoinheringaahing libertarian is a word that a lot of people like to use when it agrees with their opinions and also when it opposes their opinions. i'm honestly not sure how many people use it correctly myself included
but yeah, it's wack. it's over now though so that's what matters
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
My favourite way to describe libertarianism is that you aren't a libertarian unless you support gay married couples defending their homegrown marijuana plants with their legally owned guns :P
Which. Life goals :P
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
isn't weed illegal in the UK
 
tjjfvi
tjjfvi
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ Re 1: Agreed Re 2: good to know, though I still suspect that that was highly influenced by the Eucharist
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@Rɪᴋᴇʀ Sadly, yes
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
@cairdcoinheringaahing lmao, L. its been legal everywhere i've lived for a while now i think - california for like the last 5 years and judging by how many smoke shops are here, in massachusetts as well
ofc with stipulations but still
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
1:51 AM
It was very fun visiting my grandparents who live in B.C. in Canada (where its been legal for ages) for Christmas, and they proceeded to make an entire tray of pot brownies with all of us in the house :P
I was 14 at the time, and when my grandad offered me a brownie, I didn't really get why it tasted a bit weird :P
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
a whole brownie? wtf
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
I think it was half, but I don't really remember :P
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
yeah half or a quarter sounds more plausible lol
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Is it 18 to legally buy it in legalised states?
 
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
Rɪᴋᴇʀ
pretty sure still 21 but it's legal to give to at least 18
(at least in MA. never came up in CA, since I wasn't really both 18 and looking for weed much of last yr)
legislation is so funky across different states though so ymmv. something that came up recently was south dakota (redneckland) supreme court pulling out some BS to fail a weed-legalisation bill on a technically despite the fact it passed already, iirc
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
1:59 AM
I think I remember reading about that. Sees kinda messed up tbh
 
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