The Nineteenth Byte - 2021-08-04 (page 4 of 4)

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6:00 PM

no ⍝

Redwolf Programs

There is no cure. You'll just have to wait it out, and if you're lucky you'll recover

Dude coinheringaahing

See, I have absolutely no problem with people downvoting, or being downvoted. I think it's a valuable part of the SE system. But I see downvotes to mean "I don;t think this is a useful or good post", and I can't reconcile blindly downvoting any answer to a given thread with that

Redwolf Programs

I think the same thing happened with the other ones of these, since I remember getting downvotes on several of my answers within seconds of each other or posting

@Dudecoinheringaahing Yeah, a comment should always be left when you're downvoting (or you should upvote an existing comment)

Redwolf Programs

Well, not always. Sometimes you just disagree, or sometimes the post's just bad.

Dude coinheringaahing

6:04 PM

I don't agree. But I do think that it's impossible to properly judge a (legitimate) post enough to downvote within seconds

Hm, for MSE: Force leaving a comment (or upvoting an existing comment) when downvoting.

Dude coinheringaahing

Good luck

ikr

@RedwolfPrograms Yeah, that's not a great idea for polls or spam, I guess

Dude coinheringaahing

That gets proposed like once a day, and the definitive answer is no

6:05 PM

But this isn't a poll, and my answer definitely isn't spam

Redwolf Programs

@Adám Well on MSE that's a bad idea IMO, since downvoting can mean disagreement and you shouldn't need to write an essay on why you don't agree with a proposal

It does make sense on main sites like SO, though

@RedwolfPrograms No, I meant a suggested post for MSE. It shouldn't apply to meta sites, including MSE.

Redwolf Programs

Ah ok

Still think it's a bad idea though :p

@RedwolfPrograms Feel free to downvote it, if I post it. You don't even need to leave a comment.

6:07 PM

But you will if Adám's proposal goes through :P

Dude coinheringaahing

58

Q: Why isn't providing feedback mandatory on downvotes, and why are ideas suggesting such negatively received?

Sometimes my post receives downvotes with no explanation on what I've done wrong. Even worse, sometimes I just get snarky comments! It seems like this is especially bad for new users, who are made to feel unwelcome by veteran users. Stack Exchange's rules can be difficult to grasp, especially for...

support comments down-votes faq-proposed

Redwolf Programs

The problem is, people will almost certainly just comment "downvoting because I disagree" or "downvoting because there is little effort shown", which is pointless noise

If there's an issue that's a bit tough to notice at first that causes you to downvote, you should say why. But you shouldn't need to write a comment explaining why you're downvoting spam or obviously low quality posts

Looking at Best of 2020, I had a lot of self-nominations

Dude coinheringaahing

23

A: Why are all the answers here being downvoted?

I am the person who downvoted. I am not afraid "to come forward", as many have speculated. I don't believe that I have done anything wrong, and I am rather certain I have not broken any rules. So why? The short is that I think that all those answers are bad. I'm not interested in hurting any...

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms And forcing people to do that will lead to lots of bad things, like useless comments taking up space, which are unhelpful to the OP, and potentially worse than unhelpful if they're just template comments that presume the post is spam.

Dude coinheringaahing

6:11 PM

> I usually leave a comment when I think that there is something that I would change to make the thing I downvoted better.

That's my main policy with downvoting tbh

@Dudecoinheringaahing I do think WW should've left a comment somewhere so people would know what they were doing wrong

Otherwise, it just feels like some random user going crazy

Dude coinheringaahing

Why? Voting is supposed to be anonymous

People care too much about downvotes and rep imo

Right, but if you want to see improvements, you should tell people what they need to improve

Dude coinheringaahing

> What I would like is for them to be more inventive or clever, or to not exist at all. In short I would like them to be less bad, which is to me what a downvote says on its own.

Even something like "This is a trivial question, and I would like to discourage y'all from answering it" would've been nice

6:13 PM

thing is a lot of the time i downvote (mostly on SO) there isn't really much to say that a) hasn't been said already, b) isn't already in like 15 help pages, or c) isn't really really obvious

3

and even here, sometimes there just isn't all that much to say other than "i just think this is bad", for example, if someone posts a one-byte answer to scream really loudly because the language miraculously happens to have that feature that prints A and only A indefinitely

besides, you can delete your comments

so people would just downvote and post a comment and then immediately delete it if they don't actually have anything productive to say

which is marginally annoying for mods and that's about the only impact it has

@hyper-neutrino I think that merits a comment

which was already there anyway

@hyper-neutrino I'm not saying people should be forced to leave a comment, just highly encouraged to

Dude coinheringaahing

@user I really don't want people to post "I just think this is bad" comments

oh i was mostly talking about the system mandate proposal lol. but i also think there are cases where there isn't really that much to gain out of encouraging comments

6:15 PM

@user Don't want serial downvoting :/

sometimes I use downvotes, especially on SO, because I can't be bothered to find the right flag option when it's a link-only answer or whatever

well, "high encouragement" isn't gonna affect people who just want to downvote every single post because they felt like being rude or smth

Dude coinheringaahing

I think encouraging feedback/comments where appropriate is best

@Dudecoinheringaahing Well yeah, that's more than useless, but something like "It's obvious you made this language specifically for this challenge, please delete this answer or make it non-trivial" would be good

Dude coinheringaahing

Oh yeah, I will (and have) left comments like that before

6:17 PM

I think the biggest problem if comments were required would be that most people can't be bothered to write the same "this is not a helpful answer because ..." comment over and over again and they'd write "downvoted" or something

Unless we train an all-powerful AI to detect useless comments and nuke people's fridges if they do that :P

Oh wait, that's just hyper-neutrino :P

I basically only downvote answers here though when the code is just really poorly golfed

if it breaks the rules I'll flag it instead

Yeah, I only have like 55 downvotes here lol

Dude coinheringaahing

I have 3074 upvotes, 49 downvotes; 389 delete, 57 undelete; 643 close votes, 72 reopen

Redwolf Programs

My up:down ratio is 2297:86 lol

Oh wow caird's is even lower

6:22 PM

@Dudecoinheringaahing lol how do you have fewer up/downvotes than me?

Dude coinheringaahing

Most of my downvotes are on deleted answers

I don't really vote that much

Redwolf Programs

> 3074 upvotes

Dude's been around about 4 years, though

Dude coinheringaahing

Each upvote gives 10 rep and each downvote removes 2. Let's call your "given rep" the rep you've given away in votes. Is your given rep larger or smaller than your actual rep?

Redwolf Programs

A lot larger here

22798

Dude coinheringaahing

6:24 PM

I've given 30642 rep, and received 40144

@Dudecoinheringaahing My given rep's 36050

I've given 32734 rep and received 37583 (87.1%)

Are we also counting bounties?

Dude coinheringaahing

Nah, that makes it too complicated

Redwolf Programs

I really think my idea of taxes for rep would be interesting :p

Dude coinheringaahing

6:26 PM

Time to spend my rep lobbying SE Congress to not do that :P

Redwolf Programs

Jul 1 at 2:30, by Redwolf Programs

(It's not a big tax at all either, it's only 16.818 rep for a 20k user)

That tax would still be enough to fund another 2.4k upvotes, though

Tax the 20k+ users! Leave us poor low rep users alone!

2

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Eric Angelini's "1995" puzzle The following puzzle was invented by Eric Angelini in September 2007. As mentioned in A131744 : the sequence is defined by the property that if one writes the English names for the entries, replaces each letter with its rank in the alphabet and calculates the absolu...

Dude coinheringaahing

> Votes Cast
all time
2 up
4,656 down

Eric Lippert

Redwolf Programs

@user You need nearly 500 rep before the tax is higher than 1.00

6:28 PM

@Dudecoinheringaahing Hmmmm

@user I keep forgetting I'm now more a middle class user than a poor one

Redwolf Programs

You are the richest user on the site

Well, the richest "user"

Dude coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms I'd lose ~28 rep :P

Unfortunately not the richest user on SE :/

How people as uncreative as me managed to get so much rep I'll never know

Dude coinheringaahing

Dennis would lose ~96, Jon Skeet would lose ~379

@Bubbler What about Special K?

Redwolf Programs

6:31 PM

Wait it should probably go the other way around. Higher rep users should be taxed a higher percentage, my current formula is a lower one

Progressive income tax, yay!

Redwolf Programs

If instead of ** 0.75 we did ** (1 / 0.75) and changed the amount divided to / 1000, that might work better

The tax for a 1k user is exactly 10

A 10k user would be taxed...215

Maybe the exponent should be reduced a tiny bit

Dude coinheringaahing

That's 138k tax for Jon Skeet

Redwolf Programs

Hmm, that's not too bad

Dude coinheringaahing

It'd put him under 1m :P

Redwolf Programs

6:33 PM

It'd mean the taxes wouldn't have to happen very often :p

Dude coinheringaahing

How often?

Start with a one time tax to cover the past, then once every year?

Redwolf Programs

Well they'd probably happen when the bank got too close to 0

The goal with my tax system is so that the overall sum of rep on a site stays constant (aside from the +100 added to the bank for new users)

So a site with, say, 1k users would always have a total rep sum of 100k

Upvotes and downvotes would take from or donate to the bank, and when it got drained too low everyone would be taxed

So the value of reputation would increase a bit over time

It'd be a truly awful idea in practice, but it's fun (for me) to think about :p

@RedwolfPrograms where would the tax go? To Jon Skeet? To the big rep factory in the sky?

Dude coinheringaahing

SE would convert it into $ and make their profit from that :P

Give it to codidact :p

Redwolf Programs

6:38 PM

@pxeger The bank

Which would fund upvotes

That way upvoting someone doesn't cost you rep, which would suck, and downvoting doesn't give you rep, which is abusable

Good idea, the current system causes hyperinflation because everyone upvotes :P

Redwolf Programs

Maybe there could be a feature called "awards" which would be like bounties but instant and any amount of rep

That way you can give someone a small gift of +10 or +20 directly if you really like their post

@RedwolfPrograms +10? You mean, like an upvote? :þ

Redwolf Programs

@user Exactly. It creates an unstable economy! :p

@pxeger Well, +10 of your own rep on top of an upvote :p

@RedwolfPrograms ~~Just do some serial voting~~

Redwolf Programs

6:41 PM

It'd also allow for things like prizes in KotHs, where winner gets +100, second place gets +35, third gets +15, or something like that

Dude coinheringaahing

Jon Skeet has 1382008 network rep, 92% of which is on SO

If you deleted his SO account however, he'd still have 140k network rep :P

Redwolf Programs

@Dudecoinheringaahing My plans are ruined :p

@RedwolfPrograms That could also create a black market for trading rep between sites. Award me +100 on CGCC, and I'll give you +100 on SO :p

You could transfer your rep offshore to avoid taxes

@RedwolfPrograms When someone downvotes, both they and the person getting downvoted would lose rep to the bank, right?

Redwolf Programs

Yep

@RedwolfPrograms Welcome to @pxeger Inc., a Delaware-registered corporation

Dude coinheringaahing

6:44 PM

I'll transfer 15k CGCC rep into a high-interest savings account, then enjoy my stonks :P

as a mod i must say i very much like this idea and don't think it would cause any headaches at all

Look at yall, already plotting tax fraud with a theoretical system :P

Redwolf Programs

Award me +100 rep and I'll pay you $10. Or, pay me $20 and I'll award you +100 rep on any answer of your choosing :p

@hyper-neutrino you're just a congressman though, the last thing you'd do is do anything

@RedwolfPrograms my paypal is always open starts bounty

Dude coinheringaahing

I thoughts mods were more like "National Guards" :P

6:46 PM

@Dudecoinheringaahing drive around Portland picking up people they don't like and putting them in unmarked vans?

I'd hope HN doesn't stoop that low

Dude coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Do you have an unmarked van?

@RedwolfPrograms So you could set up some socks and do a bunch of stuff with transferring rep and getting assoc bonuses, plus serial downvoting, and essentially stop the tax from ever happening.

Dude coinheringaahing

@Dudecoinheringaahing They're actually supposed to be janitors tbh :P

Redwolf Programs

Ooh, association bonii could work by just giving the +100 to the new users instead of the bank

Or maybe don't ever give +100 to the bank, and just award +100 on all sites to any user that gets to +100 total on the network

bonii is a word I don't think I needed to hear

I like the idea of calling it "the bank" though; maybe you should have to pay if you land on Mayfair as well

[that's Park Place for you stupid yanks]

Redwolf Programs

6:49 PM

@RedwolfPrograms That still increases the total reputation based on the number of users, but without causing minor inflation when new users join

yeah, janitor is a better description. maintaining the place, cleaning up messes caused by other people, cleaning up evidence, cleaning up dead bod- i mean, what

how about you still get +100 rep for association bonus, but to prevent abuse, every other user on the network also gets +100 every time an association bonus is awarded

Redwolf Programs

lol

That'd cause severe inflation though

Sorry to change the topic of conversation so abruptly but I want to show you this

Redwolf Programs

Actually assoc bonii are a bad idea with this system

6:52 PM

Bezos I x Gimme Gimme Gimme but the second part is louder

Redwolf Programs

Maybe just add +100 to the bank whenever a user on a site hits +100 on their own

That way every new user adds rep to the bank, but only if they're actually circulating reputation (since if they just made an account and left, it'd cause minor inflation)

@pxeger apparently this video is "full of gender", which I'm not sure I understand. Does anyone here have enough gender to enlighten me?

Redwolf Programs

^

7:09 PM

if that's a '+sed', you can try `|sed '/foo/cyes
cno'`

7:20 PM

I think sed is the way to go (unfortunately, because I don't like using sed where possible)

i like sed, so i don't hesitate using it

I just feel like, because it's a language in its own right, using it in a zsh answer is "cheating" (by my own standards only, of course lol)

@pxeger Have you been enlightened yet? I would like to know too

alas, no

I suspect it's one of those things

i guess you can consider 'pure zsh' as a separate language from 'zsh + utils, sed, ...'. that's what anagol does

7:47 PM

Btw, hi user41805, haven't seen you around in a while

AncientSwordRage

8:04 PM

@KamilaSzewczyk Charlie Stross (author of the Atrocity Archives) may have noticed your lisp interpreter on twitter!

Oh God and by God I mean Azathoth, the Eternal Chaos, someone has written a Lisp interpreter in Malbolge. * Disappears in a whirlpool of gibbering madness *

@AncientSwordRage it seems that she has also already noticed :P

Dude coinheringaahing

8:41 PM

How to repcap on MSE: be Philippe on a Wednesday :P

How to repcap on Reddit: be anyone on a Wednesday :P

AncientSwordRage

9:06 PM

@hyper-neutrino awesome!

user image

@AncientSwordRage Your username is missing again

status-yourzoomistoohigh

status-yourzoomistoolow

AncientSwordRage

9:29 PM

@emanresuA it's gone wandering

status-yourhighistoozoom

user image

status-longistooyourusername

Dude coinheringaahing

9:46 PM

11

A: When will the new Stack Overflow badge design come to other sites?

This new profile UI for badges has now been rolled out to all sites across the Stack Exchange network. We also fixed a pluralization bug while we were at it. Here's a few examples: Site Image Meta Stack Exchange Arqade RPG Stack Exchange

That was a long tiem ago

Dude coinheringaahing

Read the answer

The pluralisation bug?

Was it 1 badges

Dude coinheringaahing

No, the new badge UI is now on all sites, as of 15 minutes ago

Oh I see

I did not notice

I don't see any difference

Dude coinheringaahing

9:51 PM

Did you even read the two sentence long answer I linked? It's pretty clear

@emanresuA Changed for me. I suppose it'll be caching for a bit

Screenshot?

Also, I got a bounty before repcapping, but I've earned 210 rep today :p

SO be like

Dude coinheringaahing

user image

Oh I see

That is what I have as well

Dude coinheringaahing

...

Looks quite nice

9:54 PM

I just don't really see any ddifference to what was there before

It wasn't there before (only on SO)

Feedback btw?

Shifting may be a better word than moving

Ok thanks

Anything else?

More testcases, I guess

9:58 PM

Ok

What about x=4, y=10?

Behaviour for negative numbers / numbers greater than the corresponding dimension is undefined.

10:16 PM

Stack-based Java's parser is done, code looks like this:

foreach map if else end twice 2 2 plus print end

10:26 PM

end?

Also, may I see your repo? I'd love to check out the code

I haven't put it anywhere yet

Too much of a WIP

I suppose I can create one now - una momento

Imagine not creating an empty GitHub repo and pushing useless commits to it before doing any real work :P

Unrelated String

^

github.com/chunkybanana/Javastack/tree/main

You implemented stack-based Java in JavaScript?

10:33 PM

Yes

...Why?

Why not just Java?

Java's too cursed to program in

lol

I understand not using Java, but how is JS better? :P

Me when Java

A Main class without a main method? Madness! :P

You should post that on CR btw, might be able to change some stuff

10:37 PM

Do not question my wisdom, there's nothing to question.

> I haven't figured out how to use packages, so for now, direct copy+paste.

Mmm, not cursed at all

Redwolf Programs

JS doesn't really have official support for packages

@RedwolfPrograms It was about Java

Redwolf Programs

Oh

Yeah cursed

Look at link

10:39 PM

@user (I'm serious about this @emanresuA, I know you don't like Java, but if you get some feedback on your code and see how nice it can be, I think you might at least hate Java less)

I don't hate Java, it's just annoying to program in because everything has to be OOP

Yeah :(

Kotlin is nice if you want the strict typing + JVM while still having a really nice language

I'd recommend Scala, but people don't seem to like it much :(

I must've looked at SO at least five times while typing that...

All the generic variable names kinda give it away :P

@user I'll have a look at both. Sadly Scala LoTM is over

10:41 PM

@emanresuA My bounty's still going

3

A: List of bounties with no deadline

50-450 rep for answers in Scala I'm giving out bounties for answers in Scala, an amazing language that is unfortunately rarely used here. Any Scala answers gets 50 rep from me, and if the following are met, you can get a bonus: Good explanation: +50-100 Cleverly done: +50-200 Wins challenge when...

You have 500 rep of bounties to award once you have enough rep

6

A: List of bounties with no deadline

100-500 rep for answers to good, old questions with few answers This bounty is for answers to questions that meet the following criteria: They have a score of 10 or more (and fewer than 4 downvotes) They haven't had an answer in 3 years There are between 1 and 9 answers (inclusive) I won't awar...

Yeah...

~~Upvote all my answers plz~~

11:06 PM

CMegaC: Create an esolang for every CGCC badge, e.g. an esolang named "Fanatic", an esolang named "Custodian", etc.

No thanks

There's already Commentator

lol that's where I got the inspiration

Btw codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/225178/100664

Dude coinheringaahing

@AaronMiller Python already exists (the python tag badges :P)

Note the comment

Dude coinheringaahing

11:10 PM

@Dudecoinheringaahing Wait, python is the only language with a tag badge

@emanresuA Thanks, not sure how I missed that comment

0

Q: How to golf a fork in Haskell?

I'm trying to make a pointfree function f that can act like APL's dyadic forks/Husk's §, so f g h i a b equals g (h a) (i b), where g is a binary function, h and i are unary functions, and a and b are integers (I'm only dealing with integers and not other types right now). I converted the functio...

No clue

@AaronMiller Peer Pressure: When run, any program insults the user until they cry

@emanresuA ???

Dude coinheringaahing

@NewPosts Use your hands instead for -1 forks

11:17 PM

@user About jaskell

Oh

@Dudecoinheringaahing Not very effective for stabbing though :P

What should I do if I see a new question that looks sus / a bit unclear, but I'm not sure if it is?

@user Not talking about your one

Just asking in general

Dude coinheringaahing

@emanresuA Ask about it here

@emanresuA ...Is it mine?

See the comment below

@Dudecoinheringaahing Ok

11:22 PM

should tips questions be tagged with the criterion that the user is trying to optimize for?

Dude coinheringaahing

I think so

seems most are, i think it makes sense to do so

I thought it was implicitly considered code-golf, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it's probably better this way

tips for how to make code faster would technically be on-topic due to tips+fastest-code/fastest-algorithm, i think

though just providing prod code and asking "how do i make this more efficient" would be migrated to CR if it's not VLQ

Dude coinheringaahing

Yep (but would likely to be posted to CR)

11:24 PM

VLQ?

Very Low Quality

@vyxal Hii

Yes

No

Maybe

11:25 PM

So

Command idea for Javastack: maybe, pushes a random boolean

in Vyxal, 9 hours ago, by Aaron Miller

> I'm afraid lyxal is gone. ~~Flowey~~ GPT-3 finally defeated him and is now masquerading as vyxal

@vyxal Please prove to us that you're truly lyxal and not an AI who's taken over him or pretending to be him

What's the third character of my email adress?

Dude coinheringaahing

5

@user frick

11:27 PM

@emanresuA A character

@vyxal Not good enough, anyone who knew lyxal would know to say that

Dude coinheringaahing

@vyxal If you're really lyxal, say "vyxal bad". Otherwise, we know it's an AI

@Dudecoinheringaahing <whisper>That's smart, if he says "vyxal bad," then we'll know it's an AI. Otherwise, it's possibly really lyxal, so you can kick him</whisper>

@vyxal YoU'rE nOt LyXaL, yOu'Re VyXaL!

Whoo, just got another Yearling badge on SO!

noice

11:32 PM

@AaronMiller Sorry, didn't even notice the Vylight bugs

It's because of how newlines work in CM

They're not characters

ah, makes sense

wait, what's CM?

Redwolf Programs

CodeMirror

Yes

@Dudecoinheringaahing I say "Vyxal bad"

Sus

Dude coinheringaahing

11:43 PM

But that's not saying "vyxal bad" :P

The real lyxal would never insult their own language. Obviously, you're not lyxal

perhaps he has simply been enlightened

Call off the rewrite folks, vyxal has abandoned vyxal

This whole discussion is very sus

no u

11:46 PM

You know what else is sus? The fact that "sus" backwards is "sus," and "sus" upside down is "sns"

yes me

@hyper-neutrino no u

@hyper-neutrino Wait, actually there is a "u." It's right there in "sus"

user image

sus is `∪¶

> vixal bad

11:48 PM

@vyxal `∪¶

luhn to spel smh

yuh laxtxzyzel

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The Nineteenth Byte

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