The Nineteenth Byte

rak1507

12:17 AM

how come there are some answered questions in the unanswered section?! what

hyper-neutrino

the condition is no upvoted or accepted answers I think

rak1507

like codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/109475/fraction-frenzy and codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/150728/…

ah

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Is it a checkered tiling? code-golf grid array-manipulation decision-problem tiling Background A checkered tiling of a rectangular grid is a tiling using some polyominoes, where each region can be colored either black or white so that no two polyominoes sharing an edge has the same color. In grap...

hyper-neutrino

12:47 AM

alright, made the blog Q and all of its answers CW

future answers will automatically CW in theory

caird coinheringaahing

At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if my meta flag count overtakes my main flag count :P

98 vs 116 :P

4D4850

I put myself on the sacrificial altar in the blog suggestion stuff: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/22085/104134

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Boxes in boxes in boxes in boxes....., Determine Centrosymmetric String

4D4850

1:03 AM

Huh. I'd have expected more activity on TNB at night.

hyper-neutrino

TNB's activity isn't particularly consistent

also question: would you expect more activity during the weekday or on weekends?

totallyhuman

whose night are we talking about anyways? :P

hyper-neutrino

that too :P

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, it's morning here

Redwolf Programs

@hyper-neutrino Probably weekdays

caird coinheringaahing

1:04 AM

@hyper-neutrino Can I answer if I know the answer? :P

hyper-neutrino

well ok you already know from being active here yourself :p

4D4850

I'd expect slightly more activity on weekends, because on weekdays some programmers might actually focus rather than chatting to friends on TNB

Redwolf Programs

Lots of people bored at work and/or school :p

hyper-neutrino

@4D4850 and that is exactly where you are wrong

we here do not do this whole "focus" thing

Redwolf Programs

@4D4850 "programmers" and "friends" don't really go together :p

caird coinheringaahing

1:05 AM

Idk about y'all but I spend more time with my friends on weekends than weekdays

4D4850

Right. Forgot I'm not unique in having problems at focusing

lyxal

I spend time with my friends every day lol

hyper-neutrino

i am equally active on SE on most days because i do not have a life and am active like all the time i'm awake with some exceptions

Redwolf Programs

Same

4D4850

It seems TNB is more active when there is a miniscandal like the ad stuff from earlier today.

Redwolf Programs

1:06 AM

On weekdays I'm usually active a little bit more since I get up earlier

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal Yeah, but I'm usually busier in the weekdays so I spend less time per day

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing you don't get it

Redwolf Programs

I'm usually busier on weekends lol

lyxal

I'm hanging out with my friends right now

Bubbler

I have more real life on weekends

caird coinheringaahing

1:07 AM

@hyper-neutrino I'm equally active on all days (except sundays) because of mobile :P

hyper-neutrino

@4D4850 well of course, there's more activity when there's something going on. xD

also it is... not common that two CMs are in this room

Redwolf Programs

It felt like I'd walked into class to find the superintendent and the principal lol

rak1507

I'm probably more active on weekends but it depends

caird coinheringaahing

Catija being here is not uncommon, JNat is rarer :P

4D4850

I think people also might come here because slashdot isn't good anymore.

hyper-neutrino

1:08 AM

recently catija has been appearing more because of increased pressure i've been putting on the team with sorting through old FRs and bugs with caird, and she's been helping a lot with everything

4D4850

Where I am (US Central time) It's 8 PM

hyper-neutrino

i wonder how people feel when a bunch of mods join a room together - like that one time there was almost a heated discussion about marginalized groups that ended up being settled with some mostly friendly chatting

Redwolf Programs

Finally, someone else in my time zone :p

rak1507

it's 2am for me and I have school tomorrow :P oh no

hyper-neutrino

where like terdon, peilon, i think mast, and two site mods were here together

caird coinheringaahing

1:09 AM

@hyper-neutrino Speaking of, @Catija thanks so much for the behind-the-scenes help with that :D I know it wasn't as visible as HN's retagging, but it helped streamline things even more and was really good to get some CM feedback

4D4850

Oh No Indeed, @rak1507

rak1507

tomorrow will be boring anyway iirc for a significant chunk of the day there's some boring talks about personal statements for uni

Redwolf Programs

Imagine having school (made by going-on-a-vacation-in-two-days-and-really-don't-want-to gang) :p

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino The last flag in Mathematics had about 6 mods join the room, and I managed to get the cookie-cutter "don't use flags for that" message :P

rak1507

@RedwolfPrograms I am going on a mini-holiday to london on sunday for a programming thing, why on earth they're doing it irl and not online idk

caird coinheringaahing

1:11 AM

@rak1507 You want to know something super top-secret about personal statements? :P

4D4850

I have recently gotten on summer break. I like math class alot.

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing sure

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing oh yeah, that was.. a thing :P

4D4850

What?

lyxal

Y'all Northern hemisphererers with your gosh dang fancy summer

hyper-neutrino

1:12 AM

it is 9:12 PM where I am right now

4D4850

Summer and winter are miserable where I live.

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 Unless you're applying to Oxbridge, they don't read them. You know how I know this: my dad who does admissions for his undergrad uni course where he told me point blank that I shouldn't put effort into my personal statement because they weren't going to read it anyway :P

hyper-neutrino

@lyxal Y'all Southern hemisphererers with your gosh dang fancy winter

Redwolf Programs

Spring and summer are awful where I am, winter's (usually) not too bad

user

@4D4850 Most seasons are miserable

rak1507

1:12 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing well, I am applying for oxbridge :P

hyper-neutrino

recently it's been strangely cold

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal Imagine having Christmas when its warm :P

hyper-neutrino

like it's summer and it's only like 20 degrees. wack.

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 Good luck :P

4D4850

I live in Kansas. The weather sucks here

rak1507

1:13 AM

thanks, I'll need it

lyxal

@4D4850 where I am, summer isn't miserable at all. You're too busy trying not to melt to focus on emotions

rak1507

I'll have to do step...

hyper-neutrino

lol

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 Do you mind me asking where else you're applying?

user

@4D4850 Follow the road to Oz, Dorothy

hyper-neutrino

1:13 AM

summer here is not very nice but compared to texas and australia surely it's like nothing :P

rak1507

atm idk where (or if I'll even go to uni at all)

4D4850

I live in a place where Summers just uncomfortable or even painful

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 Warwick rejected me because I told them I didn't want to do Step :P

Redwolf Programs

It's not even 40°C here yet, though I don't remember if that usually waits until later in summer

4D4850

s/summers/summer

hyper-neutrino

1:14 AM

s/s\/summers\/summer/s\/summers\/summer's

rak1507

I'll probably apply for maths at cambridge, and maybe a few other backups, but tbh I quite like the idea of just trying to get a job so I'm not too bothered about having lots of options

lyxal

@4D4850 be thankful you don't experience Australian summer

It gets pretty bad here

hyper-neutrino

what's the highest temperature you've had lyxal

either real temp or feels-like

4D4850

Here winter got as low as -20 Farenheit.

rak1507

I don't know whether or not to apply for CS at some unis as well, could do, but I've heard from a few people that it's not the best or it varies, so I'm not sure

user

1:15 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Wait, really? Why do they make you do them?

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino 43 maybe

hyper-neutrino

damn

F

the highest i can recall ever having is like feels-like 40 during a heat wave on a humid day :p

4D4850

and summer sometimes reaches 110 degrees farenhet

user

@hyper-neutrino No, C

hyper-neutrino

ಠ_ಠ

caird coinheringaahing

1:15 AM

@rak1507 I can't stress this enough: go to a uni that you'll like the vibe. Most of the "elite" unis are basically the same in terms of teaching quality, but I couldn't stand the stuffiness of Oxbridge to even apply there

I'd rather go a "worse" uni that I enjoy going to than spending 3/4 years somewhere I'd hate just because they have better teachers

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing fair enough

caird coinheringaahing

@user Oh, its the same with US unis

4D4850

Normally the lowest tempurature of the year is -5 where I live. Farenheit.

caird coinheringaahing

"Holistic applications" my ass - if you don't get high enough SATs and can demonstrate enough extra-curricular activity, they don't want you

Redwolf Programs

Winter here is usually like 20°F at the coldest lol

user

1:17 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Did your dad tell you why they make life so painful for students, then?

rak1507

I also have to worry about accessibility as well which sucks but most unis are fairly accessible so it's probably fine

4D4850

Well, I have the joy of living in the Midwest

caird coinheringaahing

@user No, but I can guess its so that they can say "No, we actually look at the candidate, not just test scores"

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing idk about the UK, but this year (and maybe for the next few years) most colleges are test-optional

Whether or not they're really going to treat you the same if you don't give your SAT scores, idk

@cairdcoinheringaahing (ノ°Д°）ノ︵ ┻━┻

caird coinheringaahing

@user Yes, but you have to demonstrate some formal test scores (SATs, A-levels, APs whatever) if you get admitted to confirm your palce

Bubbler

1:18 AM

Technically you don't need a uni these days, unless the job position you want requires degrees

user

What I hate is that you need to "stand out," but most people are just average

rak1507

in scotland at least we're getting grades based on a totally-not-an-exam-assignment which is coincidentally set by the same organisation that sets the exam, but it's definitely not an exam and it's just (a very large) part of the evidence a teacher submits for your grade

lyxal

@4D4850 our coldest is normally around 10 Celsius.

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 At least you don't have to go through the A-level fiasco last year ಠ_ಠ

rak1507

@Bubbler yea that's why I'm sceptical about it in the first place

Catija

1:19 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Oh, sure! :) Glad to help. I've always really loved the opportunity to talk through things with people and giving @hyper-neutrino a breakdown on the feasibility of those old FRs and some advice on where to prioritize things was actually a lot of fun. :)

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing true, although there was still an exam fiasco in scotland

user

@Bubbler I've seen positions at fast food restaurants that say they prefer people with Bachelor's degrees (granted, it's not a requirement, but still)

rak1507

I think everyone in the UK had a rough time last year, this year was marginally better but still not good

user

It's not over yet.

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija :) And sorry for pushing a whole bunch of old stuff to your guy's JIRA board with the status-review tagging :P

4D4850

1:20 AM

@lyxal At least you don't have to deal with degrees farenheit. LIke, hoh does wone spel farenite. Everybody should use celsius, Kelvin, or Rankine.

user

Rankine?!

caird coinheringaahing

@Bubbler I don't know of any job that pays a living wage here that doesn't require a degree

Catija

@cairdcoinheringaahing HAHA. :) It sure got our attention. :P

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing cyber security, my friend got a job with no degree and little grades that pays very well

4D4850

@user Maybe I should use Romer instead.

caird coinheringaahing

1:21 AM

Ok, now we know how to grab CM attention: just retag a whole bunch of stuff as status-review :P

Redwolf Programs

Rømer > Rankine

But they're both bad

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 It's not impossible, but it's unlikely

4D4850

@Redwolf What about average translational kinetic energy

or degrees beep pregnant

user

@4D4850 That's not a unit

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing having a degree definitely helps

caird coinheringaahing

1:22 AM

Tbf I'm sceptical of the job market as a whole. I've had 4 jobs in my life and I got 3 of them via nepotism

user

lol

lyxal

nepotism?

rak1507

I'll probably apply for a bunch of jobs at some point and then see what I want to do out of that and uni assuming I even get any offers

4D4850

@user according to xkcd it is. Also, why not use felsius.

hyper-neutrino

imagine needing to differentiate F and C

this post made by the -40 degree winter gang

rak1507

1:24 AM

@hyper-neutrino I thought you meant calculus there

Redwolf Programs

I use degrees Newton

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal I've gotten 2 jobs at the university my parents work at because they put in a good word with their close colleagues who they happen to work closely with, and one job working for the research company that my dad founded and happens to be CSO at

4D4850

@Redwolf I use degrees from Oxford

ba-dum-tss

Redwolf Programs

I just use radians

lyxal

Stop using meaningless numbers and just measure the temperature relative to the number of people on the beach

If there's like several thousand people, you know it's a scorcher

caird coinheringaahing

1:25 AM

What temperature is it?
About 3 degrees North

Redwolf Programs

@lyxal Global temperature dropped massively during 2020 lol

rak1507

australians measure the temperature in shrimps per barbie

caird coinheringaahing

Or Fosters per hour :P

4D4850

I use centigrade (pi/200 of a radian)

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 Scots measure the temperature by shirtless chavs per 100m

rak1507

1:27 AM

lol that's more like northern england

EnderShadow8

I'm back from a bit of a hiatus

rak1507

wb

lyxal

Alternatively you could use lattes per millennial as a measure of temperature

4D4850

I use degrees rover

EnderShadow8

I just noticed there seem to be lots of prisoner's dilemma koths

caird coinheringaahing

1:27 AM

@rak1507 From my experience its a UK universal constant :P

4D4850

degrees Curiosity

Redwolf Programs

@EnderShadow8 The first KotH was a prisoner's dilemma one :p

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing yeah probably

Redwolf Programs

I think we've had 8 or 9, at least

EnderShadow8

is this anything to do with carykh

htwins.net/prisoners-dilemma

4D4850

1:29 AM

@EnderShadow8 And the most recent KotH, by me, is prisoner's ?Lemma

EnderShadow8

i saw that

Redwolf Programs

I'm probably just going to VTC any prisoner's dilemma related KotHs after this one

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms not over here it didn't

We got out of lockdown real quick and were back to crowding places pretty fast

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal Stupid Aussies and Kiwis with their clever and responsible approach to COVID

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing "clever and responsible"

hyper-neutrino

1:30 AM

imagine having a government that'll do things and a population that'll listen

4D4850

@hyper-neutrino Yes. It would be heavenly

Redwolf Programs

There were significantly more cases in the past week in the US than there ever have been in Australia lol

More evidence Australia doesn't exist I guess.

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing If by clever and responsible you mean completely ignoring social distancing and not wearing masks then yes, you're correct

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal I'm sorry, are you still in lockdown?

lyxal

N...no

4D4850

1:32 AM

No, Australia exists to make up for north dakota not existing. Have you ever met anyone from north dakota? </humor>

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal I believe my point is made :P

EnderShadow8

or just live in the middle of nowhere

Redwolf Programs

@4D4850 Wyoming's the one that doesn't exist

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing laughs in some states having to enter snap lock down earlier this year

EnderShadow8

the us doesn't exist

Redwolf Programs

1:33 AM

Jun 8 at 21:06, by Redwolf Programs

Wyoming's like daylight saving time...you just check your GPS and you've jumped forward to Montana

4D4850

@lyxal what about having to enter deb lockdown

ba-dum-tss

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing laughs in Victoria having a second wave because security guards allegedly got a bit too friendly with people who had come back from overseas

And supposedly Sydney has new restrictions coming in today too

So we ain't fully rid of it yet

Redwolf Programs

Y'all have 11 new cases today. The US has 12k.

hyper-neutrino

imagine having lockdown

Redwolf Programs

College Board got me all excited by sending me an email titled "how to get your AP exam scores", then saying I can't for another month :|

hyper-neutrino

1:37 AM

collegeboard.exe

very nice

4D4850

is not responding

EnderShadow8

@lyxal laughs in WA

hyper-neutrino

laughs in not really being in proper lockdown even though we really should

EnderShadow8

lockdown is great

hyper-neutrino

for the past like 1y3m

EnderShadow8

1:40 AM

wym

4D4850

laughs in !lockdown

lyxal

@EnderShadow8 laughs in NSW

EnderShadow8

wa is in the middle of nowhere so therefore no covid

lyxal

Is that American WA or Australian WA?

One is arguably better than the other

4D4850

systemctl converse restart

Redwolf Programs

1:47 AM

No idea where Australian WA is, but I guarantee it's better than ours :p

lyxal

Australian WA stands for Western Australia

So clearly it's on the east side :p

4D4850

oh, right. sudo !!

Redwolf Programs

TBF the only part of Washington I've been to is Seattle

4D4850

4D4850 is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.

Catija

15

Q: New First-Time Asker Dialog

(I have cut down the post body to make the request clearer for reviewers; you can view the revision history for the original question.) The current modal that appears for someone asking for the first time doesn't really contain helpful information for our site; however, we can change it. After de...

How "required" is using the sandbox? Just curious.

Redwolf Programs

1:57 AM

Very highly recommended, but not required

Catija

> We strongly recommend that you post your challenge as a draft to our Sandbox for Proposed Challenges for a few days first for feedback. Doing so allows you to correct potential issues before posting to the main site.

> Please post your challenge as a draft to our Sandbox for Proposed Challenges for a few days first for feedback. Doing so allows you to correct potential issues before posting to the main site.

The second is the current wording y'all have.

Redwolf Programs

First is definitely better IMO

Might even put "strongly" in bold

Catija

For non-challenge questions (I'm guessing they're rare) do the three bullet points apply? So, for questions about code golf or challenges?

If so, it might make sense to adjust the last sentence to say something more like:

> The bullets below apply to non-challenge questions only.

hyper-neutrino

"Summarize the problem" is broad/vague enough that it should be fine for most things - even in challenges (which can be called "problems" in some scopes, I guess), you should summarize it instead of only leaving bloated flavortext or such, and with tips questions this is especially true since you need to clarify what the code you're asking for tips for is meant to do.

Providing details is good; research is... not really relevant for non-challenge tips types

Redwolf Programs

^

hyper-neutrino

2:08 AM

@Catija but... it's probably good enough to word it like that

the third might even apply to those - I would personally rather turn them off if that is possible but if not this wording probably works for them

Catija

I can turn the third one off, no issues there... so it's just whether the first two are applicable.

If that works for you, what I'll put in the request for PubPlat is something like this - If the bullets can be hidden, please hide them all. Otherwise, include this sentence ("The bullets below apply to non-challenge questions only.") and hide the third bullet point.

I'm not sure whether we can get rid of the "before you post, search" paragraph, but I'll ask about that, too.

hyper-neutrino

@Catija oh yeah I don't know why I removed that. I should've probably checked if that was possible

however, it's actually not too bad to include still; dupes are still a thing we get and it's not a bad idea to advise that

Catija

Ah, OK. If you do want it, edit it into the question for me so that it's clear to the devs?

John Dvorak

do be sure not to remove it from all sites by accident

Catija

HAHA. I surely hope we wouldn't manage that.

hyper-neutrino

2:15 AM

CMM - should we keep or remove the "Before you post, please search the site to make sure your question hasn't been answered." part from our first-time asker dialog?

CC @cairdcoinheringaahing if you're still up, since you contributed most of the current wording

Catija

(assuming it can be removed)

Redwolf Programs

I think it's fine, but if it ended up below "The bullets below apply to non-challenge questions only." that wouldn't be optimal

hyper-neutrino

true...

lyxal

._. GPT-3 knows of Dennis. I gave it the URL "https://codegolf.stackexchange.com" and it completed it as https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/163623/how-can-i-remove-duplicate-lines-from-a-file, which leads to a Jelly answer written by Dennis

Redwolf Programs

It probably just picked a somewhat random number lol

Bubbler

2:22 AM

And it actually redirects to a different post ID

Catija

@RedwolfPrograms ... I think there's actually a second editable field there... so I think we can plop it between the text and the bullets.

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Yeah, it might be worth keeping. Can't speak for others, but when I skip the Sandbox, I spend most of my time between drafting and posting looking for a dupe

hyper-neutrino

alright. TBH i think i just... missed it lol. like i don't think i intended to remove it in the first place

Catija

So, that note about the bullets is something I can actually edit, so you can see it if you look at the site in private browsing mode.

I can remove it until the rest is in place, though, since it may be confusing to some people without an explanation of what that means.

hyper-neutrino

oh that's nice

Catija

2:26 AM

I can also remove the third bullet on my own if you want.

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija what's PubPlat?

I'm guessing short for Public Platform, which refers to what is shown to everyone?

Catija

@cairdcoinheringaahing The dev team that works on the Public Platform.

Ah, yes. The public SE network is the public platform, as opposed to Teams.

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija Ah, I was close :P

@Catija That's be a perfect suggestion IMO

hyper-neutrino

alright, I've restructured my FR a bit.

(codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/23485/…)

would like some feedback on this now that it's changed a bit

especially regarding the sandbox thing - I wanted to make it as mandatory-sounding as possible without making it seem like it was actually mandatory; there are rarely good reasons you'd want to post challenges without sandboxing

caird coinheringaahing

Interesting that 6/10 of the Community Ads answers have reached the required threshold

Catija

2:31 AM

But it's closed... so...

hyper-neutrino

wait, it got closed?

hm. :/

caird coinheringaahing

Also, I dislike when mods/CMs unilaterally cast a vote, but I think it applies here. I'd like to formally request that a diamond reopen the Community Ads post, and we have a proper discussion (be that in chat or a meta post) about anything that is unclear

Catija

There's two reopen votes, so it's not super unilateral, anyway. :)

hyper-neutrino

I agree with this, and am willing to hammer it and take any flak for using my binding vote like so.

oh :p

caird coinheringaahing

For the moment, I have some posts I'd like to make ads (or rather, in a few hours after I sleep) and I don't think keeping the thing closed is helping anyone or anything

@Catija I did not see those - the app doesn't show them :P

Catija

2:34 AM

True. You can add a third if one isn't yours. :)

caird coinheringaahing

HN's already got the third :P

Catija

Indeed. :)

hyper-neutrino

It's mostly clear but there are some edge cases, and honestly, a lot of them can probably be guessed using common sense anyway. I'll spend some time digging through the transcript and updating the post accordingly (although I would rather him do so, I'll try to quote CM comments and not be influenced by my own bias/presumptions), but I think blocking all ads for these edge cases is counterproductive to both parties.

caird coinheringaahing

Anyway, it's 3:30 here and I should probably sleep. See y'all in the morning o/

AviFS

'Til later @cairdcoinheringaahing!

Catija

2:35 AM

We're off tomorrow - we're observing Juneteenth, so we'll be out until Monday.

@cairdcoinheringaahing SLEEP! :D

Redwolf Programs

The first reopen vote was not cast by who I expected lol

Wasif

Hello everyone

Redwolf Programs

Hi!

AviFS

@Catija Oh no way, you get the Friday off? That's really cool!

Wasif

@RedwolfPrograms hi

hyper-neutrino

2:37 AM

oh, Juneteenth is an official holiday now? very nice

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija Time sleeping is time not spent code golfing :P

hyper-neutrino

smh caird imagine not having a healthy sleep schedule

caird coinheringaahing

Yes because I'm known for sleeping at reasonable times :P

Wasif

None of us have a healthy sleep schedule

Catija

@AviFS Yeah! They did it last year, too. The company is trying to be really respectful of this sort of thing.

hyper-neutrino

2:39 AM

it is now an official US holiday though apparently :D

@hyper-neutrino ~ me, who has gone to sleep at 4 or later for the past three nights in a row and might do it again

Catija

@hyper-neutrino It is, as of today, but wasn't prior to this afternoon. We were given the day off a while back.

I used to stay up until all hours but I have kids that get up at stupid o'clock in the morning and, while my spouse does a lot of the early morning stuff, I still get up at 7, so I try to get to bed before 2 most nights.

caird coinheringaahing

I wish I was someone who could get up early :/

hyper-neutrino

oh it just came into effect this afternoon? huh. well i just looked it up on wikipedia because I needed a quick reminder about what it was (I must admit I forgot, though I am canadian so it isn't officially a thing here) and saw that note so that's nice

oh I get up at around 8:30-9-ish

Redwolf Programs

Up until recently I've had a reasonable sleep schedule, luckily I'll be going somewhere 5 hours off from my current time zone for a week so I'll have an excuse :p

Catija

I didn't know about it until about 5-7 years ago, even though I'm from Texas, which is possibly a place that it gets celebrated more than others, since Texas is the state impacted by it (as the final state to get word of emancipation).

caird coinheringaahing

2:42 AM

@Catija I still can't believe that Election Day isn't a national holiday for y'all. I 100% support Juneteenth being a holiday, but given November, I can think of an event that might be slightly more pressing :/

And yes, I get that it isn't "only one day gets to become a holiday" :P IMO both should've been made national holidays - they both represent important issues that the US is struggling with

Catija

@cairdcoinheringaahing I agree about Election day, sure. Unfortunately, most national holidays don't come with a mandate to take the day off (which some countries do), so the people likely most in need of the day off, would likely still have to work. :( That's not an argument not to do it... just... I'm not sure it'd have as much of an impact as requiring a minimum amount of early voting or absentee ballots or whatever.

hyper-neutrino

The fact that it isn't mandatory that everyone is given an opportunity to vote speaks to how... poorly designed (if I'm being generous) / oppressive (if I'm being cynical) the whole system is.

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija That too :/ anyway, I really should sleep rather than start a political discussion on the US :P

hyper-neutrino

good idea :p go to sleep :p

o/

Redwolf Programs

@hyper-neutrino I don't know too much about it, but I'd imagine whichever party is currently less popular would block any legislation to make it a holiday

hyper-neutrino

2:46 AM

yeah. sounds about right

i mean, a certain politician who votes through mail wants to ban mail-in voting too and stop vote counts from including them while they are winning and the opposing party is mostly voting through mail

can't imagine why though

Catija

@hyper-neutrino I wonder whether mandatory voting, like in Australia, would be as impactful. I think the whole "trying to make it so that people can't vote" thing is ... terrible. I'm not totally informed but I think that a lot of the issues stem from the fact that voting is something handled at the state level, not the national level, so the US government doesn't have much power to force laws there.

Redwolf Programs

That also gets in the way of things like removing the electoral college I think

hyper-neutrino

@Catija Yeah. To be clear (I think you didn't misunderstand me but just in case, and for anyone else reading) I don't think mandatory voting is really a good idea; people should have the right to not participate in the election. But everyone absolutely needs to have the right to do so safely and within their constraints.

And yeah, this is just another demonstration of the fact that the US is pretty much 50 countries under one banner lol

Catija

Yeah, I figured you meant mandatory day off, not mandatory voting... but it did make me think about Australia.

Redwolf Programs

@hyper-neutrino It was sort of meant to be, it's way more centralized than was ever intended (so it's a weird mix that doesn't work that well)

hyper-neutrino

2:51 AM

Yeah, that's true. Feels like an awkward mix of, and with the detriments of both

Redwolf Programs

I don't like opposition to IRV because "it's too complicated" when the electoral college is a thing lol

hyper-neutrino

how useful is IRV when there are literally only 2 parties tho lol

i mean, maybe for primaries though.

Redwolf Programs

The point is that the current voting system is what keeps the two party system in place

Any time a new party threatens one of the main two, one just slightly shifts their viewd and steals the voters

hyper-neutrino

ah, that's true

Redwolf Programs

Fun fact: The Democratic Party was formerly called the Democratic-Republicans...and it was one of the first two major parties, led by Thomas Jefferson

Catija

2:59 AM

Yeah, that. If you can have a viable third option, it quickly becomes easy for a third or fourth party to actually get traction.

AviFS

@hyper-neutrino Yeah, I only heard about the bill today. It was signed into effect 2 days ago. It's only the 11th federal holiday; not actually that many.

hyper-neutrino

@RedwolfPrograms oh yeah, I heard about that. apparently the democratic and republican party swapped sides sometime during US history?

Redwolf Programs

For some stuff it happens quite often

Immigration, for example

hyper-neutrino

i mean like the parties as a whole

Catija

It allows people to support the candidates who closely match their ideals while also allowing them to supporr the "most likely to win" candidate that they prefer.

hyper-neutrino

3:00 AM

@Catija exactly. FPTP just runs into vote-splitting; if 60% of people support one side but divide 30/30 on two parties, the 40% wins

AviFS

In the House, 14 republicans voted against it. (But there are over 500 who all voted for and the Senate was unanimous.) I wonder what will come of their careers.

Catija

@hyper-neutrino Yes. The republicans used to be the more liberal party.

Redwolf Programs

The Republicans didn't gain traction until 1860, but we've still had those two parties win every election by a landslide for 170 years

hyper-neutrino

@Catija okay. thanks. TBH the only reason I know about this is because I've seen... far too many people say "oh well the republicans were the ones who abolished slavery"

as though that means anything decades later.

it's always from those "patriotic" "conservative" people who are just racists trying to justify / finger-point otherwise

anyway, i should avoid political discussions here. opinions on using "Please post your challenge to the sandbox" vs. "we strongly recommend that you post your challenge as a draft to the sandbox"?

Redwolf Programs

(Another thing I like about TNB: outside politics tend to stay pretty uncontroversial, and stop before arguing occurs :p)

Razetime

3:32 AM

@user you did not miss it dw

just tell me the rep of your sock

Redwolf Programs

TIL Prosus also owns Codecademy, which is the site that first taught me JS :p

Catija

3:52 AM

I think I've been calling it "codeacademy" for years.

hyper-neutrino

wait it isn't?

welp. ._.

Catija

Apparently not. :D

Redwolf Programs

I always just called it "code mumble ademy" because I wasn't sure :p

2

hyper-neutrino

granted pronunciation-wise there isn't a large difference (at least the way i say things) between kou-d-ka-di-mee and kou-d-a-ka-di-mee because you have to put something between the d and k sounds anyway :P

Redwolf Programs

The bold and unique option is of course "cod-ecka-duh-mee"

hyper-neutrino

3:59 AM

ಠ_ಠ

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