The Nineteenth Byte

i don't want to move any of the core logic out of the bytecount into flags but stuff like "join on newlines" isn't particularly interesting or worth a byte IMO

centering a list is different IMO. but that becomes kind of arbitrary too so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ like where does one draw the line

A username

Let's downvote this

lyxal

okay I figured out why centering was utterly bad on generators.

there was a map which was iterating through the generator, leaving it at the end

hyper-neutrino

@Ausername why

A username

5:18 AM

Read it

hyper-neutrino

i can understand where OP is coming from though

do keep in mind that this question was asked when code-golf was a tag on SO

so an SO user might be wondering why people are asking and answering questions making a bunch of short and totally unreadable / impractical code, when SO is about programming help

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino you can now get 4 bytes

dw about spoilers

it's the result of a bug fic

*fix

hyper-neutrino

ah. thank :D

lyxal

Having a custom Generator wrapper is both a blessing and a real pain simultaneously

it makes custom type shenanigans easier to manage, but makes dealing with generators annoying at times

Wasif

Sup everyone

Ah I missed the contest

Razetime

5:22 AM

@lyxal yo wtf

hyper-neutrino

i am suffering

lyxal

@Razetime <insert photoshop flowey troll face here>

hyper-neutrino

i have become the very thing i swore to destroy

@lyxal do you have normal lists, or do you use your generator for everything?

i have both lists and sequences, which may come to haunt me later in dev

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino I have normal lists and generators

hyper-neutrino

ah okay

lyxal

5:23 AM

dang maybe I should make lists generatorz

*generators

Wasif

What are the use of generators in vyxal

lyxal

They speed things up a lot

Wasif

Oh

lyxal

before v1, I used a custom stack class, which converted generators/itertools stuff/FP stuff into lists

hyper-neutrino

can generators be infinite

lyxal

5:24 AM

yep

hyper-neutrino

nice.

lyxal

how else do you think I have infinite lists

hyper-neutrino

that's the main point of what i'm using sequences for

lyxal

The generator class is simply a way to do type cohesion with all sorts of generators (e.g. making lists and itertools play nice)

AOC inspired me to roll my own generator class

hyper-neutrino

speaking of AOC

i should make a python template for that

maybe i will make one. i won't use it either way but i want to see if i can make a decent one

lyxal

5:26 AM

I want to try and use Vyxal for AOC hence my push for a somewhat more efficient interpreter

:o JoKing is here

hyper-neutrino

hey there @JoKing!

the one person who can actually say "i'm joking"

Jo King

i'm completely serious

lyxal

You're not completely serious, you're JoKing

Jo King

i'm also missed the contest oops

Wasif

Where is the transcript for the contest?

lyxal

5:28 AM

someone should bookmark it

Razetime

interesting challenge spotlight

hyper-neutrino

give me a bit; you can only attempt to bookmark every 30s

First Mini-Golf

6 hours ago, 1 hour 31 minutes total – 400 messages, 15 users, 11 stars

Bookmarked just now by hyper-neutrino

starts at the start, ends at the maximum allowed bookmark length

it keeps going a bit after that but i can only bookmark 400 messages

Bubbler

Oh, a bookmark has message count limit?

hyper-neutrino

TIL ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Bubbler

Now we've got yet another thing we push SE system to the limits :P

hyper-neutrino

5:32 AM

wdym another, this is clearly one of the first, we totally don't do that on a regular basis :P

*glances at 8246 answers on the sandbox*

Wasif

What 8246?

hyper-neutrino

including deleted

Bubbler

Maybe we will get to see the hard limit of the number of answers on a single question... someday...

hyper-neutrino

maybe the sandbox will become reprotected one day, who knows

meta never got protection removed, just that shog set our relevant threshold to 10,000

and one day we may hit that

Bubbler

Is it including deleted or not?

...I guess no one really knows

hyper-neutrino

5:41 AM

> I've disabled auto-protection on this meta site.

Or rather, set the relevant thresholds (answers from new users) to 10,000.

That should keep things under control for a few weeks.

only answers from new users

so we're not even close to hitting it, in theory at least

Bubbler

Oh. Then yeah

hyper-neutrino

Hopefully "a few weeks" means 6-8 weeks. — Addison Crump Mar 28 '16 at 20:37

Bubbler

But then I think someone mentioned that there's a hard limit of 16384 (answers on a single question, I believe)

hyper-neutrino

oh

well guess we'll be the first to put that into practical testing! :D (probably)

A username

6:13 AM

Sounds fun, love breaking SE!

Razetime

6:23 AM

Dupe of monthly mini golf :P

A username

s/thl/da

hyper-neutrino

@lyxal is there a specific reason your link/SE post format buttons point to http:// even though you have an SSL certificate?

lyxal

I have an SSL certificate?

That's news to me

hyper-neutrino

...

lyxal

As in I didn't know pythonanywhere gave out ssls

hyper-neutrino

6:33 AM

lyxal

Wow

TIL

Oh I see it's for all subdomains of pythonanywhere

I'll update that when I'm next at my computer

A username

@lyxal Redirect to HTTPS, then use a HSTS header.

lyxal

It's an esolang interpreter not a banking site

hyper-neutrino

lol i have that on my personal site which literally serves a few static pages and could just be full HTTP and it wouldn't matter

A username

@lyxal try this

pxeger

6:41 AM

Oh my god what is this kerning

okie

Thinking about making a brainfuck work with int instead of chr

lyxal

@pxeger Well it's the greatest title sequence Tom Scott has ever seen

chat event idea: TNB poker game

and you buy-in using rep

3

winner gets a massive bounty

pxeger

Sounds like a bad idea. I'm in!

okie

@lyxal Yes rep bet, I will lose all my rep in mere seconds

A username

Spam isn't spam if
it's a haiku, just because
haikus are so cool
[Reference](https://meta.stackexchange.com/a/32877)

lyxal

6:48 AM

idk how we'd run it but I'd easily drop 10k rep in losses

Bubbler

@Ausername markdown doesn't work in multiline messages

okie

How should we handle people that refuse to pay?

A username

@Bubbler That's why.

lyxal

@okie chat suspension

okie

lmao

lyxal

6:49 AM

or get Hyper to delete their accounts

high stakes code golf poker. a terrible idea that's fun for the whole family

A username

You're mean.

lyxal

alternatively, you only get chips after paying a bounty

okie

Imagine the bounty reason

lyxal

"I lost to <person> because they had a full house with pocket kings while I had pocket queens. So unfair."

okie

He cheated! (50 reps)

A username

6:51 AM

Badges? Like I can give Lyxal two bronze and one silver

lyxal

or more realistically "<person> rigged the game! There's no way they were that lucky to get JQ two pair when I had pocket 7s. Now I have to give them a bounty" (spoiler: how I lost 15mil)

okie

Hyper will be super rich after that

lyxal

I mean the concept would probably break SE TOS, but eh

okie

~~who care about SE TOS, give me the rep~~

Bubbler

Well, if you're determined enough to cheat, then better have a full deck in your pocket

pxeger

6:55 AM

Moderators should be able to force-accept answers (for when a user does something like this)

A username

@lyxal Drop python, use jQuery.

lyxal

@Ausername jokes on you I already do

Bubbler

KotH idea: two players are given a full deck to cheat, and they play a repeated game of poker where they can replace part of their hands with the cheat cards

hyper-neutrino

@Ausername did you link the wrong answer, or did you mean to link to a post that specifically says in large text at the top to not use it?

A username

Yeah, use jQuery for the backend

lyxal

6:58 AM

@Ausername I can't be bothered to port a multi-file interpreter

A username

HTML is not allowed, use Jquery.

lyxal

No, because I piggy-back off python for some things (read: abuse python).

A username

@hyper-neutrino Real one

okie

@Bubbler Or you can simluate a real casino with everyone having set amount of money, richest win, those who broke are out

hyper-neutrino

okay. i'll edit that into your original message

A username

6:59 AM

@lyxal Stop using github, use jQuery.

lyxal

frick jQuery.

hyper-neutrino

you can do that with jQuery

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino ...

A username

Who uses TNB anymore? jQuery is so much better.

pxeger

lmfao at CVE 2021 32471: Insufficient input validation in the Marvin Minsky 1967 implementation of the Universal Turing Machine allows program users to execute arbitrary code via crafted data

lyxal

7:32 AM

mmm vs code really do be screwing up right now

StackMeter

someone's downvoting my answer

lyxal

@StackMeter whomst and h'what?

StackMeter

@lyxal the empty scrabble board answer, and they didn't even leave a comment

lyxal

well it is horribly ungolfed

StackMeter

yes

but they didn't even tell me how to do it better

just DVed and left

lyxal

7:38 AM

well it wasn't me

because I've spent the last 10 hours bug-fixing a golfing suggestion

StackMeter

ok

I hate people who downvote for no reason

@lyxal also why not 21

or BlackJack

I am better at BJ than poker

Anush

7:58 AM

hello all!

StackMeter

sup

Anush

stuck on a seemingly simple problem again :)

Wasif

8:32 AM

sup everyone

i accidentally thought StackMeter was saying sup

@Anush hi

StackMeter

8:47 AM

well, I'm going to start building up the wiki for my new lang while I wait for my bounties to roll in

Wasif

@StackMeter your esolang is ready???!!!!!

Anush

@Wasif hi

New Bounties With No Deadlines

0

A: List of bounties with no deadline

200 rep for a 2D Language answer to Rotation-safe quine What it says on the tin. You can use any language which uses two-dimensional syntax (Fish, Befunge, Klein, Labyrinth, etc) to create it. It must be a proper, valid quine and the language must not have been made before this bounty offer had b...

StackMeter

9:05 AM

no

wait

I just saw the snowball KOtH

Wasif

What snowball koth

There's no such kotH

A username

Introducing my new library: Cquery - like Jquery but for C!

What else:
Pquery
Hquery
Vquery
Fquery
Bquery

(Bquery is for brainfrick)

@lyxal Don't use Java, use Jquery!

StackMeter

this one - gotta get an answer down

StackMeter

9:30 AM

gonna make a glass cannon

EnderShadow8

9:53 AM

@Ausername As a JS programmer this hurts physically

Adám

10:19 AM

@Ausername Aquery for APL, and Kquery for K. But actually, Kquery is called Q.

Meh, APL's query language should be called AQL.

(In fact, we have something called SQAPL.)

A username

10:38 AM

@EnderShadow8 Have you not seen the meme

Razetime

11:05 AM

APl really needs its own JQuery tbh

A username

TNBquery

caird coinheringaahing

Jul 14 '16 at 15:49, by quartata

I mean, really. do we have to enforce everything with a mod hammer. Why can't we all just get along

I always forget how lawless TNB was for a significant part of 2015 and 2016 :/

Razetime

that musta been fun

caird coinheringaahing

I mean, TNB being so bad was one of the primary reasons behind closing, then locking, the memes page

Razetime

interesting

A username

11:16 AM

> 7 frick, only 10/10 not 69/420? I failed as a crewmate, hella sus. Let me just go commit frick and die? I think it still has problems...

lyxal

I... I'm not a problem though am I?

A username

@lyxal You're fine.

lyxal

Except the quote you linked is a typical representation of me

Thonk

caird coinheringaahing

@Ausername Take a look at some of the meta posts tagged with chat from 2016 and earlier to see what I mean :P

If bad behaviour leaks onto meta, you know there's a problem

Prime example

A username

That must've been chaos.

@lyxal Sorry.

Wait what??!?!??!?

I thought TNB was always called TNB...

caird coinheringaahing

11:26 AM

Nope

First page of the transcript - The room used to be called just "Code Golf"

A username

You were not here in 2016.

caird coinheringaahing

I tried writing an answer, but couldn't think of the best thing to say, but I do have this: I joined after you 'went dark' and so never really knew you as a mod. However as I read about the history of PPCG more and more (I cannot tell you how many forgotten chat transcripts I've read), I came to realise just how active you were, and I think that you stepping down as a mod is a great shame. I really hope you keep golfing and stay active here (come join us back in TNB when you can!) — caird coinheringaahing Feb 21 '18 at 23:02

I kill time here by digging through old chat transcripts, meta discussions and challenges :P

A username

Same, a bit.

The past of CGCC (or PPCG) is surprising.

caird coinheringaahing

I've always found it interesting that you can more or less break it up into 4 or 5 "eras" that have generally been pretty different from one another, and pretty distinctively defined

lyxal

Tell us these eras

A username

11:34 AM

There's the beta era, (something), the Dennis era, and the one we're in now, which has problems.

caird coinheringaahing

Site definition (2011-2013), Growth and code-trolling (2014), The "Activity Boom" (2015-2016), The Stable Period (2017-2018), The Post-Monica Exodus (2019) and now

lyxal

That makes 6

caird coinheringaahing

I'm bad at counting :P

lyxal

Yes

A username

What do we call now?

The rickroll era?

lyxal

11:36 AM

now

We just call it now

caird coinheringaahing

Currently, I'm calling it the New Wave era :P

lyxal

No, call it now so when future TNB historians come, they'll say "now (2020-whenever)"

(also, hello future TNB historians)

caird coinheringaahing

Most of the active users are new (accounts < 2 years old) and y'all are establishing a different kind of CGCC (different vibe, challenge ideas, power users, etc.) than the past

A username

We had another boom last year when people were stuck at home...

@cairdcoinheringaahing I'm 5 months old.

lyxal

The exodus should also cover part of 2020

Because that was our moderatorless period

(almost)

A username

11:39 AM

What about doorknob

Nvm

lyxal

Those were the days where when I went to sleep, there wasn't 5 pages worth of transcript to log read

3

caird coinheringaahing

Back when getting 10+ stars on a good message wasn't uncommon :P

I actually can't remember the last time that happened tbh

lyxal

Wow imagine getting 10 stars on a message

Made by my best is 9 (prove me wrong lol) gang

caird coinheringaahing

Looks like the most recent message with 10+ stars was

Sep 30 '20 at 3:40, by Razetime

congrats to our new mods!

A username

The best so far that I've found is 8 on razetime bullying adam

lyxal

11:50 AM

that's not razetime

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal My best is 22 23 :P

Sep 26 '17 at 20:26, by caird coinheringaahing

ಠ_ಠ I hate what Jelly has made me do. I just copy pasted the character W

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing hey that was on the last day people used the word "I'm" freely

Neil

@cairdcoinheringaahing but 10172 is 4 times a prime...

also, in font news, I prefer the font now used in the rep badge over the old one

lyxal

Doesn't look like much has changed on Android lol

A username

There are 5 active users here right now, +12 who have it open in background

lyxal

11:55 AM

And the mobile site looks really bad after having used desktop version pretty much every day

@Ausername I count 4 active and 13 in the background

A username

@lyxal What about yourself?

lyxal

@Ausername okay there's you, me, caird and neil

4

Thats 4 people

A username

And EnderShadow8.

caird coinheringaahing

This looks promising

Jo King

i mean, can i be both?

caird coinheringaahing

11:59 AM

JourneyMan's post about the job openings might have actually struck a chord with SE

EnderShadow8

@Ausername ofc i have

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing If only we could get a code golfer to get the job

Imagine that. We could finally make the changes we need to break free of the Q&A template we are forced into

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal They typically open CM positions to the mod pool, I'd support Doorknob going for it (probably has the best chance of all the mods tbh) :P

Nothing against the other 3 mods, more that Doorknob has more than a year of experience as a mod

lyxal

In other news, none of y'all are coming here until mid next year apparently

JoKing, Ascii-only, (possibly) A username and a few others excepted

Jo King

would i even want to be hired though

caird coinheringaahing

12:05 PM

@JoKing Good question, would you?

A username

@lyxal wait what

lyxal

Travel bubble with NZ

We're good to come to you and you're good to come to us

caird coinheringaahing

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/124118/tnb-stars

I believe that new stars should go to that room (please don't star spam to test this)

A username

@lyxal Oh yes

Wait where is JoKing?

lyxal

A bit south of me

And by bit I mean 154km give or take a few tens worth of km

A username

12:14 PM

looks at map of Australia So somewhere in Victoria?

lyxal

No

Somewhere in syd

ney

Yes I really couldn't be bothered to edit that message

A username

So you're in... Newcastle?

lyxal

Correct

How far away are you from me?

caird coinheringaahing

at least 3

lyxal

Understandable

And somewhat relatable

A username

12:18 PM

@lyxal It's hard to tell.

lyxal

It's at least 2k km

Hmm that sounds redundant

2Km maybe

Jo King

2 megameters

A username

@k km would be 2 million metres.

Ninjad

lyxal

@Ausername how'd you manage to press shift while pressing a number?!?

A username

@lyxal Um what

lyxal

12:21 PM

@k km

The @ is supposed to be a 2 no?

A username

Oops. Idk.

caird coinheringaahing

@Ausername's a normal human typing with his normal human hands

lyxal

relevant xkcd

(i had that in my clipboard ready for such a moment)

A username

@lyxal relevant typo

FJAFJKLDSKF7JKFDJ

lyxal

How did you hit a "7" in the middle there?

A username

12:25 PM

By carefully copying it from the xkcd

AJFaraday

Greetings fellow hu7mans with normal human hands

A username

He7llo

AJFaraday

I wondered if anyone had 2 minutes to help with a code challenge I'm preparing.

A username

@AJFaraday Su7re

AJFaraday

I'm implementing Terry Pratchett's board game, Thud in JS. All interactions with the game will be via a controller. I've written out the interface here... github.com/AJFaraday/Thud/blob/main/docs/…

Does that make sense? Am I missing any7hing that you'd need to play the game?

A username

12:30 PM

Context for the game please?

AJFaraday

It's a chess-like board game described in a fantasy novel

I could summarise the plot for you if you like :p

A username

@AJFaraday Ok, what's the aim of the game?

AJFaraday

Or, probably more helpful, here's a page describing the game: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_of_the_Discworld#Thud

The gameplay section has everything you need

A username

@AJFaraday Thanks, will have a quick look

AJFaraday

Thank you! I think I've got everything you'd want, but it's good to have a second pair of eyes

brb

caird coinheringaahing

12:34 PM

@AJFaraday Is this a koth style game?

A username

@AJFaraday Yup, looks good! Maybe include the wiki for context just in case.

@cairdcoinheringaahing Yes

AJFaraday

I'll definitely include the wiki, the ticket would get very long if i didn't.

@cairdcoinheringaahing Well, it's an asymmetrical game, so it'll be cops and robbers.

But yes, it'll be code v code

caird coinheringaahing

@AJFaraday You can combine the two (recent meta discussion), which seems like it'll be more appropriate

A username

@AJFaraday See this

Ninjad

Bye

AJFaraday

Fine with that for tagging, presumably it'd still be two questions?

caird coinheringaahing

12:40 PM

Yeah

You'd have a robbers thread and a cops thread like a CnR

AJFaraday

Good, it'd be a real pain importing clients for the two sides otherwise.

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing they do. just like a week or two ago they opened one which is also related to journey's post

Redwolf Programs

The font change announcement is slowly gathering downvotes...the answers saying to revert the changes will start overtaking it soon :p

caird coinheringaahing

I just want arial back, honestly. Segeo UI literally looks like a cartoon comic font. I have a pretty big monitor (not 4k). — 10 Rep 20 hours ago

That's my biggest complaint with the fonts - Segeo looks downright silly

Redwolf Programs

The first time I saw a screenshot of Segeo (after the change), I burst out laughing. It's just comic sans lol

Who on earth thought that'd be more readable?

I think the site's font is part of its appearance and identity, and messing with that (not to mention making it different for different users) is unnecessarily messing that up.

Arial is probably one of the more readable fonts, aside from a few very specific issues with certain letter combinations, and certainly more readable than comic-sans-prime

lyxal

12:53 PM

Just use monospaced comic sans

Problem solved

hyper-neutrino

why was this changed anyway

readability? i've seen so many people complain that ubuntu is unreadable for them

i can't tell what font i have on windows but it looks alright. tbh a bit less readable but i like how it looks so i probably won't use custom fonts on it

caird coinheringaahing

I think the reason they gave was that by not loading their own fonts, it made browsing SO faster and less bloated

But honestly, I don't see any difference in speed

hyper-neutrino

that's fair i guess? i haven't personally noticed but maybe someone with slow internet might?

First Mini-Golf

Transcript for