The Nineteenth Byte

user

12:13 AM

lol

I'm not busy now

Now you won't be able to enjoy dinner because I will spam this chat with random messages :)

DLosc

12:27 AM

@user You'd have to ask the radio DJ. I don't think the maintenance guy picked the radio station just because they were playing Astley. It might've been a station that played stuff from that era, though.

OldSandboxPosts

1:00 AM

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Ambigious Chemical Formula

A username

1:15 AM

Lesgo!!!

A username

1:32 AM

 :57846753
    haiku = () => {str
      = "What's wrong with Java"
    return str + 'script'}

Read as:
    haiku equals str
    equals What's wrong with Java
    return str plus script

Wezl

2:21 AM

@Wezl obtw youtu.be/vY6YZEZQZoo?t=1225

user

3:21 AM

@Ausername Nice haiku

Redwolf Programs

3:57 AM

More Indonesian Gambling Spam

We should just abbreviate it to IGS from now on

hyper-neutrino

oh my god it's back aaaa

Lyxal

dang it i wanted to see it

Redwolf Programs

My NMP managed to catch that before it was deleted lol

user

Dammut I didn’t get a chance to flag

hyper-neutrino

thanks to the power of New Posts it only took 24 seconds

however, Redwolf's bot is just 3 fast 5 me

Redwolf Programs

3:58 AM

Interesting, the brand name DEWAPOKER didn't show up in this one, unlike the rest

hyper-neutrino

@Lyxal i mean you still can but idk why you'd want to

Lyxal

@hyper-neutrino * 4 fast 6 me

ftfy

user

Fast and furious

Redwolf Programs

> of course there are interesting things that make that person interested in playing.

Ah yes, this poker here is made out of poker

Lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms it didn't even give me a link

~~hth am I gonna gamble now?~~

hyper-neutrino

4:00 AM

yeah it's... not very good spam. when there isn't even a link to scam people with...

Redwolf Programs

They don't even mention a brand name lol

user

I gambled away all ny dankmwmer mobey

Lyxal

@user stoopid.

user

It could’ve been a different troll

Lyxal

hey @user

Redwolf Programs

4:01 AM

Maybe it's a war between two different online indonesian casinos and they're both trying to spam here to earn our loyalty

user

@Lyxal :(

@Lyxal hi

Lyxal

you see that

big win first try

user

A war would be cool /s

Lyxal

@user get good

hyper-neutrino

it could be to try to get SEO from stack exchange but like

user

4:03 AM

I am not as lucky as you are @Lyxal

hyper-neutrino

if you don't put a link what is the point

Redwolf Programs

It's like if a restaurant bought a multibillion dollar ad campaign that just said "Buy food" with no branding or link

You're advertising the rest of the industry equally

user

There’s no point, There’s no point to anything. We’re born, we golf, we die. The universe goes on

Lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms ~~It's like if I told y'all to use a certain golfing language and then accidentally got the documentation wrong~~

user

@RedwolfPrograms I could get behind that

@Lyxal Vyxals documentation needs fixing?

I thought it was working

Lyxal

4:06 AM

@user yes I screwed up the description of K

user

Damn Markdown

Lyxal

not your fault

no problem with markdown

user

@Lyxal Oh ok

Lyxal

problem with my own txt file

user

@Lyxal I still hate md :P

Lyxal

4:06 AM

we all do

YES I got to flag one of those IGS questions

user

Whoo!

Kinda underwhelming:P

hyper-neutrino

got triple-autoflagged by SD :P

Lyxal

how to sign up for SD autoflag?

hyper-neutrino

eh i forget exactly how but you can go here and probably find it

user

Why do they bother posting here?

Cgcc literally has nothing to do with poker

hyper-neutrino

4:12 AM

well i doubt they care about being on-topic but the other thing is like, who do they expect to scam anyway

user

No i mean why do they think they’ll find an audience here

were not gambling.se, we’re code golf.se

hyper-neutrino

I was discussing this on CHQ or TL (can't remember which) and... our conclusion was pretty much it might be for SEO, and more likely they get paid to post it here and it doesn't matter to them if it works or not as long as they've posted it so they get paid.

Lyxal

@user 42 search results would like to have a word with you

hyper-neutrino

in fact, it's likely there are toolkits out there that facilitate spamming SE

@Lyxal how are you getting 42

i see 41

Lyxal

there was 42 a minute ago

hyper-neutrino

4:16 AM

oh lol

Lyxal

i'm not that bad at reading i think

hyper-neutrino

nah, it's more likely i'm that bad at reading :P

Lyxal

i don't think I misread 41 as 42

hyper-neutrino

classic blame-caching though i guess

Redwolf Programs

4:28 AM

Does getting a large number of your posts deleted by six spam flags do anything to you? Like automatically suspend you or something?

Probably wouldn't matter much since spammers never really use the same account anyway

hyper-neutrino

it deducts 100 reputation IIRC

but i don't think it automaticaly suspends you immediately

they don't use the same account anyway and i destroy them anyway. i've destroyed close to 30 accounts within the past few days cuz i decided to clean up some profile spam while i had not much better to do

enough times will probably auto suspend, but even then, i'm not sure if it actually will, or if it's up to a mod to decide to do that

Redwolf Programs

~~Only one way to know for sure~~

Lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms I'll do it for you

I'll have to purchase plane tickets and track down our spammers, but I'll ask them ;p

hyper-neutrino

4:48 AM

now i'm tempted to make a spammer-themed koth-like PVE challenge :P

where instead of facing each other each submission faces a common AI opponent and the last submission to stand against the enemy wins

hyper-neutrino

6:58 AM

Hi there @ATaco! o/

Lyxal

the above message but worded as if I said it instead

ATaco

7:26 AM

Howdy @hyper-neutrino

Lyxal

@hyper-neutrino your branch interpreter site isn't working

very sad

hyper-neutrino

eh, what specifically isn't working

Lyxal

the link

branch.hyper-neutrino.xyz/

hyper-neutrino

ah shit

i changed the link

Lyxal

where link

I need to steal your web sessions model

hyper-neutrino

7:31 AM

i have already written 16 answers so i can't edit all of them ;-; i will just set up a redirect on my server

interp.hyper-neutrino.xyz/branch

Lyxal

nice

Razetime

8:23 AM

@Lyxal Interesting

Lyxal

8:46 AM

@Razetime well I'm interested in making a way for it to time out on too much memory

hyper-neutrino

uh

branch just has a command line flag

that makes the program exit if you attempt to create a new node while there are (N) nodes already

Lyxal

But also to stop the session t9o

*too

pxeger

I'm gonna be honest, it doesn't look too secure

hyper-neutrino

i haven't figured out how to kill the session based on memory; by time is easy

@pxeger is isn't lol. the thing is all languages available right now have no capability whatsoever to do anything that harmful

pxeger

no sandboxing, os.system littered dangerously close to user input

You only have to find a use-after-free or whatever in the C interpreter and you've got full server access

Lyxal

8:49 AM

Lol it uses python

pxeger

the Branch interpreter is in C

Lyxal

@hyper-neutrino I already have by time. I want to know how to make it so I can stop a session after having clicked execute

@pxeger the online one is python

pxeger

@Lyxal oh ok

hyper-neutrino

@Lyxal no it isn't

there is only a C interpreter

Lyxal

@hyper-neutrino so how you interfacing with flask?

hyper-neutrino

8:50 AM

os.system

Lyxal

Oh

That's bad.

hyper-neutrino

yes

pxeger

or subprocess.Popen

Lyxal

But how do you make it stop the session once it's started?

pxeger

non-cryptographically-secure random number generation is a bad idea for sessions btw

hyper-neutrino

8:51 AM

POST to /kill with the session and it kills it

i just store the Popen objects in a dict

yes, you can technically kill someone else's process if you figure out their session

pxeger

Is that all you can do? It seems like if you could get control of the session ID you could do directory traversal or shell injection

oh wait it has to be an integer nvm

hyper-neutrino

i don't see how you'd be able to

the session ID is pretty much just a number to keep track of which instance is which so they can kill execution

the ID could be any hashable object for all i care about I think

pxeger

but os.system(f"rm -rf sessions/{session}")

Lyxal

So then what is the best method of sessioning?

hyper-neutrino

oh right. i remember now

pxeger

8:56 AM

use a library

hyper-neutrino

i did that cuz i couldn't get pipes working the way i wanted

how do TIO and ATO ensure security?

just sandboxing?

pxeger

or at the very least, use secrets.token_hex and don't plonk (even sanitised) user input in an os.system call

@hyper-neutrino Resource limits with cgroups, sandboxing with Bubblewrap, and timeout using wrapper.c (a modified GNU coreutils timeout). Read the architecture docs for a bit more detail

hyper-neutrino

i'll have to take a look if i plan to add languages with more features to it, thanks

pxeger

hey quick question: why does Ruby use elsif for else if? Like, actually why?

Unrelated String

9:29 AM

does ruby even need a separate keyword for that
i feel like python has one specifically because of indentation rules and the whole colons thing

if you're going to do it as a matter of convenience then don't make it fucking elsif why would it be elsif

Razetime

Rubys elsif is from the perl lineage

Ruby has many nonsensical things that are most often derived from perl

pxeger

given the amount of good language design that went into Ruby, I often wonder why it still has so much Perl in it

And why, matz, won't you add type annotations?

John Dvorak

because there was no reason to ever remove it

pxeger

but there is; it has to be maintained and it takes up development capacity that could be put into something else

John Dvorak

@pxeger because the parser is a pile of jenga... there are type annotations, but they have to be in a separate file.

I don't imagine there's any real amount of maintenance needed to keep a feature

Razetime

9:53 AM

I think they don't put too much effort into extending some of the more obscure features

and elsif is already set in stone by now

even crystal uses it

pxeger

Well elsif isn't that weird

I'm thinking more of things like flip-flops and the interpreter's command line options

New Main Posts

0

Q: Print co-primes numbers of any number n

Given a number 10000=>n >= 2, output all the positive integers less than n where gcd(x, n) == 1 (with x being any one of the output numbers). Numbers of this sort are coprime to each other. Example: 10 gives the output [1, 3, 7, 9] (in any form you like, as long as the numbers are unambiguously ...

John Dvorak

flipflops are getting killed

pxeger

Last I saw, they were going to be killed, and they changed their mind for backwards compatibility

I maintain my adage that backwards compatibility is the root of all evil

flawr

10:53 AM

@NewMainPosts I just got outgolfed by my past self, I thought this was a nice little challenge, started working on it, it got closed as a dupe and I realized I already had a better anwer in that one.

Unrelated String

11:15 AM

the classic

Lyxal

12:43 PM

Wow we sure are getting a lot of spam lately

Redwolf Programs

2:09 PM

I still can't decide on the names and functions of the chat bots

The options are basically:

1. New Posts (Main + Meta) and Sandbox(ed) Posts

2. New Main Posts, New Meta Posts, New Sandboxed Posts

3. Main Posts, Meta Posts, Sandbox(ed) Posts

Any opinions?

Maybe just New Main Posts and Sandbox Posts, that way I can reuse SP for the Guild of Reviewers room

Anush

2:59 PM

CMC for input x, return the number of leading zeros in the binary representation of the md5 hash of x

Adám

@Anush I suspect that computing the md5 is a bit more involved than counting the zeros.

Anush

No built-in?

A lot of languages have a standard library call for md5

Redwolf Programs

If we assume there's a function md5 that returns the hexadecimal representation, it'd be d=>(z=md5(d).match(/^0*./)).length*4-(Math.log2("0x"+z)|0) in JS

Wait no

Anush

@RedwolfPrograms cool! Oh, not cool?

rak1507

python
lambda x:130-len(bin(int(md5(x).hexdigest(),16)))
from hashlib import*

Anush

3:08 PM

Why hex digest if you still use bin?

Redwolf Programs

d=>[...md5(d)].map(x=>("0x"+x).toString(2)).join``.match(/^0*/).length

There

Anush

Nice

user

@Anush Something like md5(_).toBinaryString.takeWhile(49>_).size, but only if some function md5 is already defined

Anush

@user JS?

user

No, Scala, forgot to mention the language

Anush

3:11 PM

Ah ok

What is the 49 doing?

user

I just realized it doesn't work because the hash is a hex string, not an integer

It's '1'

Anush

Ok

Redwolf Programs

What if it's all zeroes?

Wait no, that's not an indexOf

If you assume the hash isn't all zeroes, d=>[...md5(d)].map(x=>("0x"+x).toString(2)).join``.indexOf(1) works (JS)

If you were porting that to Python you could put %33 at the end, but unfortunately JS's stupid modulo doesn't work like that

user

@user New version based off of Redwolf's: x=>md5(x).map(BigInt(_,16)toString 2).mkString.takeWhile(49>_).size

@RedwolfPrograms Does "0x"+x automatically get converted to an integer when you call toString on it?

Redwolf Programs

No :/

user

3:16 PM

How does that work, then?

Redwolf Programs

It doesn't

user

Oh

Redwolf Programs

Make it +`0x${x}` and it should work

user

@RedwolfPrograms Why :/ though? It's a good thing that JS doesn't coerce that - there's enough weird stuff already

Redwolf Programs

:/ because it makes the solution slightly longer :p

Wait no still doesn't work

Wrap that in a ()

user

3:18 PM

lol

Redwolf Programs

(+("0x"+x)) and (+`0x${x}`) are the same length, actually

Wait, I can use BigInts to shorten this

d=>BigInt("0x"+md5(d)).toString(2).indexOf(1)

Or, if you need to handle a hash that's all zeroes, .match(/^0*/)[0].length

d=>(BigInt("0x"+md5(d)).toString(2).indexOf(1)+1||33)-1 might actually be shorter lol

user

@RedwolfPrograms The Scala one nearly looks identical: d=>BigInt(md5(d),16)toString 2 indexOf 49

Do you need the 0x prefix with a BigInt?

Redwolf Programs

Yeah, otherwise it'd be decimal

user

Oh wait, it needs it to know the radix

Redwolf Programs

Also for testing I used 0x45 without realizing what it was

user

3:22 PM

LYXAL ALERT 🚨 LYXAL ALERT 🚨 LYXAL ALERT

Razetime

69 or be 69

user

?

Razetime

modified flowey quote

Anush

flowey?

Redwolf Programs

I found a creative way to find 11 ** n - 1

parseInt("a"*n,11)

(pseudocode)

user

3:30 PM

If it ain't shorter, it ain't creative /s

Redwolf Programs

It is shorter, maybe the syntax of the pseudocode I'm using requires it to be ( ( 11 ** n ) - 1 ) :p

(but parseInt("a"*n,11) is fine obviously, no spacing needed there)

user

Makes sense to me :P

ngn

@Anush +/*\~,/+2\`md5@

Anush

3:44 PM

@ngn wow!

what language?

ngn

@Anush k

Anush

k :)

ngn

K (programming language)

K is a proprietary array processing programming language developed by Arthur Whitney and commercialized by Kx Systems. The language serves as the foundation for kdb+, an in-memory, column-based database, and other related financial products. The language, originally developed in 1993, is a variant of APL and contains elements of Scheme. Advocates of the language emphasize its speed, facility in handling arrays, and expressive syntax. == History == Before developing K, Arthur Whitney had worked extensively with APL, first at I. P. Sharp Associates alongside Ken Iverson and Roger Hui, and later at...

@Anush my reimpl of it^

Anush

very nice

it looks like we haven't had a proper challenge just for implementing md5

ngn

-3

Q: Implement the MD5 algorithm!

Your challenge is to output the MD5 hash of your input. The specification of MD5 can be found here. Crypto builtins are NOT allowed. Shortest code wins. Psuedocode: //Note: All variables are unsigned 32 bit and wrap modulo 2^32 when calculating var int[64] s, K //s specifies the per-round shift...

code-golf string cryptography hashing

it wasn't received well :)

Redwolf Programs

4:00 PM

An atomic code golf MD5 challenge would be cool, maybe

ngn

@RedwolfPrograms more atomic code golfing would be cool in general

too many golfing languages are just huge collections of builtins

atomic golfing should level the playing field

user

More atomic bananas would be nice too

Neil

4:36 PM

@RedwolfPrograms toString will never output leading zeros, except for 0 itself of course...

Redwolf Programs

Oh yeah :|

Add a padStart(128,0) I guess

No idea why I forgot about that

user

Oops, mine needs padding too :(

Redwolf Programs

Doing some work on my ranking script

It'll probably take about an hour to run, since it needs lots of user input to handle edge cases regarding duplicates and stuff

So monthly updates will be a bit more of a chore than the other scripts, but it should be much more accurate

rak1507

5:03 PM

@ngn people cry when builtins are banned because it means writing an answer actually takes skill :) hides

Redwolf Programs

No, they cry when there are four answers that are invalidated by a sudden change in the rules

Built-in bans are fine (when it makes the challenge more interesting), but not after it invalidates 80% of the answers

rak1507

oh, I didn't realise it invalidated answers, fairs

ngn

it doesn't have to be a change. a challenge could be tagged "atomic-golf" from the beginning.

Redwolf Programs

I know, but I was talking about the specific question

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 "hey man, I want to watch a film" "Sure, let me just buy a movie studio, fund it, cast it and edit it" "Why not just... open Netflix?" "Oh, you banned builtins so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"

If you have to ban builtins to make your challenge interesting, your challenge is boring

ngn

5:06 PM

codegolf != holywood

rak1507

not sure what your point is there, why do something when there's a builtin to do it?

for the challenge

@cairdcoinheringaahing I highly disagree especially for languages with high numbers of builtins that trivialise otherwise non trivial tasks

Redwolf Programs

Note that answering a challenge with a non-built-in version when there is a built-in is basically a separate category under our current rules

caird coinheringaahing

If your language has a builtin for the task, submit it, but include a non-builtin version as well

ngn

i think the advantage of atomic golf is that languages can compete against each other

Redwolf Programs

I mean in ACG you basically define your own language, right?

ngn

5:10 PM

@RedwolfPrograms language? maybe. i would call it a common set of basic operations.

hyper-neutrino

barring languages with exceptionally silly functionalities, picking some common built-in function and saying "just implement it" isn't an interesting challenge even if non-trivial for languages without that built-in

Redwolf Programs

I disagree

Things like MD5 can be common built-ins but are still quite interesting

rak1507

I also disagree, a lot of interesting/clever golfs can be on 'simple' things

hyper-neutrino

then again, i'm not good with challenge-writing so don't really take my opinion on what challenges are interesting all that seriously. i just solve challenges i feel like doing :p

Redwolf Programs

I think there's a big difference between "simple/trivial" and "common built-in"

rak1507

5:13 PM

also true

hyper-neutrino

fair enough

actually yeah "mold to shape" isn't exactly that simple but at least a few golfing languages have that (I believe)

caird coinheringaahing

Jelly's ṁ atom is insanely good when using any arrays past 1 dimension

Redwolf Programs

What does it do?

ngn

with the proliferation of specialized golfing languages, golfing has become boring. there are more languages than users. the answers are siloed and mostly not competing against each other. i think we need cross-language criteria to decide which answer is better.

Redwolf Programs

@ngn I strongly disagree

caird coinheringaahing

5:20 PM

@RedwolfPrograms Basically reshapes the content of x into the same shape as y

ngn

@RedwolfPrograms you like it when all answers are equally winning?

Redwolf Programs

Considering languages aren't even competing against each other in the current rules, yes

ngn

where's the fun in that?

Redwolf Programs

Where's the fun in Java trying to beat Husk?

ngn

if someone actually manages to beats anything with java, that would be very much fun :)

caird coinheringaahing

5:23 PM

CMC: Given an array A (where each element is either an integer or a similar list) and an integer n, replace all integers in A with n. [[-1, [2, 3]], 4, [0, [6, [7, [8, 19]]]]], 5 -> [[5, [5, 5]], 5, [5, [5, [5, [5, 5]]]]]

Redwolf Programs

Ash, 1 byte: U :p

caird coinheringaahing

Is that just Jelly's ṁ atom? :P

rak1507

APL: ⊢×=⍨ (there must be something shorter)

no that doesn't even work

⎕×=⍨⎕

Redwolf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing It's recursive fill, which doesn't sound like what you were talking about

rak1507

×∘= in extended

Redwolf Programs

5:25 PM

@RedwolfPrograms But it does what the CMC says :p

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 Does that work even if the elements are non-positive?

rak1507

oh no nvm I'm talking nonsense

seems the latest 'question' was meant to be an answer

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms How about this one: CMC: Given an array A, where each element is either an integer or a similar array, and a flat list of integers L, replace the integer elements of A with the elements of L: A = [[-1, [2, 3]], 4, [0, [6, [7, [8, 19]]]]], L = [1, 2, 3] -> [[1, [2, 3]], 1, [2, [3, [1, [2, 3]]]]]. If the number of elements of L does not divide the number of integers in A, only repeat the specific number of elements of L required:

A = [[-1, [2, 3]], 4, [0, [6, [7, [8, 19]]]]], L = [1, 2, 3, 4] -> [[1, [2, 3]], 4, [1, [2, [3, [4, 1]]]]]

Redwolf Programs

That's going to be complicated, I guess the easiest solution would be to make a really long list of [1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, ...], push it all to the stack, then recursively vectorize pop over the array

rak1507

@ngn have you switched to codeberg over sourcehut?

ngn

5:37 PM

@rak1507 yes. last night sourcehut started requiring a paid account for automated builds, so i decided to move out.

rak1507

ah

crypto mining, ffs :(

ngn

yeah, apparently some people were abusing it and that prompted the owner to require paid accounts

Redwolf Programs

Seems sensible enough

caird coinheringaahing

→ 1 message moved to Trash

ngn

@RedwolfPrograms can't blame him

Adám

5:52 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Dyalog APL Extended, 3 bytes: ⊣⍥0 Try it online!

Redwolf Programs

Just spent five minutes wondering what the heck "Casino Basic" was and why there were 25 answers in it, then realized it was "Casio Basic"

4

I am smart

hyper-neutrino

the spam has gotten to you :p

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing Dyalog APL Extended: (⍴⍨∘≢)⍢∊ Try it online!

@cairdcoinheringaahing With approach from ^ we have another 3-byter: ⊣⍢∊ Try it online!

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám Do the dieresis version of APL symbols have similar meanings to the non-dieresis versions?

Like, if you know that nabla is recurse, can you then figure out the meaning of ⍢?

rak1507

no

Adám

6:03 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Some are related (like * and ⍣), but they are not diacritics according to some grammatical system that lets you deduce meaning, as in e.g. Hebrew and Arabic.

In fact, it is more like the ¨ ties together related built-ins, with the rest of the glyph being the specific part.

ngn

@RedwolfPrograms what atomic ops did you have in mind for implementing md5?

Redwolf Programs

Not sure, probably mostly ones like xor that are commonly used for crypto algos, but I don't know enough about MD5 specifically to know which ones would be most appropriate

Redwolf Programs

6:17 PM

Finished the deduplication part of the ranking script, I'll work on the language version tree thing later

caird coinheringaahing

6:30 PM

I read the title of this spam post as "Buy Trampoline Online for Best Treatment and Recovery" (actual has "Tramadol" instead of "Trampoline")

hyper-neutrino

clearly we all know that if you're in pain jumping on a trampoline is the best way to relieve that

rak1507

I thought so too but some people disagreed and now I'm banned from the hospital

hyper-neutrino

it won't relieve your pain but if your pain is just starting to settle down, it's a good way to relive your pain :P

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing Pip, 5 bytes: aRXIb

... if using a regex replacement on the string representation of the array is acceptable.

If it has to take a list as argument, then the same code still works, but you have to wrap it in a function because Pip full programs don't have a way to input lists. 7 bytes: {aRXIb}

caird coinheringaahing

It's a CMC, I don't mind how you take input :P

DLosc

6:46 PM

tinylisp, 59 bytes: (d F(q((L N)(i(e(type L)(q Int))N(i L(c(F(h L)N)(F(t L)N))(

Anush

7:32 PM

@ngn yes I saw that :)

Redwolf Programs

I love how this painkiller spam tries to explain what pain is...very "hello fellow humans"

caird coinheringaahing

> Having a continuous form of pain can shuffle up your life.

Everyday I'm shuffling

hyper-neutrino

oh i thought there was new spam that i had missed

user

8:03 PM

Can I have some help here?

It doesn't look OK, I can't edit it myself, and the post can be fixed, so it shouldn't be deleted

What's CGCC's consensus here? Should I just skip it?

hyper-neutrino

It's an invalid submission; usually my policy is to wait for a day or two to allow the user to fix their own submission, so I'd just skip it and leave it in the queue. If it's been a few days since my comment and they haven't addressed it then you can VTD it though I'll probably delete it by then.

user

Alright

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Did you copy-paste my comment from that user's other post? Pretty sure that's exactly what I typed :P

hyper-neutrino

I did :P

Obviously edited it because this answer didn't involve a "comparison" as was said in your other comment but basically :P

I haven't gotten around to including a welcome in my SEAutoComment templates yet because usually i'm not the one to welcome new users

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Oh right, yeah, forgot about that bit :P

hyper-neutrino

8:06 PM

i see smth on new posts and it's a new user and the post is like 30 seconds old and you somehow posted a welcome comment 40 seconds ago xd

y'all are too fast for me

caird coinheringaahing

To quote a certain mod: i am speed

:P

hyper-neutrino

i must further my training to become even more speed :p

user

You should try speed /s

Wheat Wizard

8:33 PM

This is a 3-state Infinite Time Turing Machine I wrote which takes $\omega^\omega$ steps to halt.

CMC: Write a 3 state machine which takes longer to halt.

Here's a decent intro to ITTMs: arxiv.org/pdf/math/0212047.pdf

hyper-neutrino

Looks intimidating. I'll take a look at the PDF :P

Wheat Wizard

I've been having a lot of fun with ittms this weekend myself.

hyper-neutrino

They look pretty cool, but I'm not even sure I'm particularly confident with my understanding of normal Turing Machines, lol.

Wheat Wizard

Think of it as weight training ;)

Redwolf Programs

Does the chat ASCII Logos entering and then leaving the room over and over again for y'all?

Wheat Wizard

8:38 PM

Yep.

ngn

yep

caird coinheringaahing

I'd suggest kicking them, but you can't kick suspended users :/

@WheatWizard Forgive my ignorance, but how can something be "infinite time" but still halt in a finite number of steps? I tried reading the intro to the arxiv paper but it didn't really explain too well

Wheat Wizard

Well, it doesn't halt in a finite number of steps. It halts in an infinite number of steps.

ITTMs extend Turing Machines so they can continue to perform steps even after they have already performed an infinite number of steps.

rak1507

you what

caird coinheringaahing

@WheatWizard Oh, so \omega is a "infinite" number (similar to cardinal numbers)?

Wheat Wizard

8:42 PM

\omega is exactly an infinite cardinal number!

caird coinheringaahing

Ok, that makes more sense :)

Wheat Wizard

It's the smallest infinite cardinal coming after all the finite numbers.

caird coinheringaahing

Infinities are always fun to try to wrap your head around :P

ngn

"after an infinite number of steps" sounds funny :)

caird coinheringaahing

@WheatWizard Honestly, that seems like it could be more of a main challenge, rather than a CMC

Wheat Wizard

8:44 PM

CMC stands for Chat Mega Challenge ;)

I am thinking about making a main site challege with ittms.

ngn

what does omega^omega mean?

hyper-neutrino

omega "omega"s multiplied together? not sure how to understand that lol

caird coinheringaahing

From what I can remember from cardinal numbers, omega is the smallest "infinite" number. You can then keep "counting up" from omega to "omega+omega" or 2omega, and so on until omega^2 and eventually omega^omega and higher

ngn

i understand 2^x from set theory (powerset - i.e. the set of all subsets), but not x^y in general

here it says omega^omega is countably infinite, so it must be only as big as omega itself

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