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user
user
12:01 AM
If it hadn't been for Crab, I guess Low Blow would also be at the top of the leaderboard by wins
Do you know how the combined leaderboard is calculated?
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
ordered_all = sorted(contestants, key=lambda x: [y[0] for y in ordered_score].index(x) + [y[0] for y in ordered_wins].index(x))
 
user
user
I'm thinking of a Crab-like bot that quits a little later to get a few more points and get higher up on the leaderboard.
@cairdcoinheringaahing Thanks
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Looks like it gets the index in the other two leaderboards and sorts by their sum
I do note that the leaderboard doesn't handle ties
 
user
user
That's not a huge problem, though
There don't seem to be any bots with the same score
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
4: Shortcut with 5/10 wins
5: Naiive with 5/10 wins
 
user
user
12:04 AM
Oh
Might want to let the OP know about that, then
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@user I brute forced it, and 48 is the optimal value to return 
5: Zoidberg with 534528 points
(I called it Zoidberg)
 
user
user
Oh nice
I guess the 48 is probably because of Hardcode?
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Not sure, but probably
I adjusted Low Blow to accommodate Zoidberg and Zoidberg's score went way down (still 5th tho): 
5: Zoidberg with 436512 points
 
user
user
:\
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
It's pretty good with wins as well though: 
4: Zoidberg with 6/11 wins
Places 5th overall
 
user
user
12:16 AM
But not as good as Crab ;)
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Crab places 6th :P
 
user
user
With wins?
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Overall
 
user
user
@cairdcoinheringaahing Oh yeah Crab is pretty bad overall
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Thinking about getting back to work on Hunter-Gatherer KotH
 
user
user
12:17 AM
If you want to win in life, though, there's an important lesson to be learnt here: Be mean to everyone, even if it comes at the expense of your own happiness. It will pay off later.
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
I think Hunter-Gatherer's going to be an interesting KotH, because it's intentionally complicated and full of different mechanics. The goal is for there to be lots more specialization and strategy than most KotHs.
 
user
user
 
Wezl
Wezl
ok how do I even run this?
(the koth)
 
user
user
Hunter-gatherer?
 
Wezl
Wezl
no, counting
 
user
user
12:20 AM
For the Python one, run arena.py
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
You should probably do update.py first, though
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
> ACHIEVEMENTS UTC TIME 00:20
Today +520
That's definitely not correct
If I could get +520 in 20 minutes, I'd be Dennis levels of rep
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
I'm starting to get the hang of the SE API, I'm almost considering making something like SEDE, but with something nice instead of SQL, and access to more data (and more up to date data)
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@user Sorry to kinda steal your idea, I'm doing some more bruteforcing to double check the optimal score (ugh, randomness). You're free to post it as a bot if you want. If not, do you mind if I do?
 
user
user
@cairdcoinheringaahing Not at all
My first bot was bad enough, I don't think I'm going to do KotH's for a while :P
 
Wezl
Wezl
12:24 AM
rats, update.py overwrote my submission
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
:(
 
user
user
Hmm, a meta strategy by Redwolf Programs - destroy opponents' bots as they're being tested :P
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
I should update it so that it only deletes bots that don't still exist after confirming with the user
 
Wezl
Wezl
fortunately I had it backed up, and it was simple anyway
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Oh, that's good
 
user
user
12:26 AM
What's your strategy?
 
Wezl
Wezl
wow, it acts like crab but worse
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
And does this mean I have to make another adjustment to Low Blow to stay on top? :P
 
Wezl
Wezl
no
I just have to make one in hy to protest against python
I considered writing it inside of BF, inside of hy
 
user
user
Hmm, I should make one in Java and then run the Python files as JPython just to spite those Pythonistas :P
 
Wezl
Wezl
I'm not sure whether I hate java or python more :/
maybe python cause I've actually tried it
 
user
user
12:30 AM
Come to the Scala side, I promise you'll love it
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
I don't like python
2
 
user
user
I like Python when I'm using it for tiny things, but I hate it when I have to make an entire project with it and have everything crash
That said, I prefer it to JS
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
I was going to clarify why I dislike it but it seems like everyone already gets it :p
I've used JS so long it somehow feels natural
 
user
user
Where's that meme that goes:
Non python users: Python sucks
Python users: You should try it (or smth like that)

Python users: Python sucks
Python users: Yes
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
I guess if you typed on a keyboard where all the keycaps were made of broken glass you'd eventually get used to it and normal keyboards would be difficult to use because you can't feel the sharp sting to know you've hit the key hard enough
2
 
user
user
12:33 AM
@RedwolfPrograms I would like JS a lot more with stronger typing and type annotations
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Typescript maybe
Never used it but it's popular
 
user
user
@RedwolfPrograms That seems a little extreme - JS isn't that bad, but yeah
 
Wezl
Wezl
the slowness is horrible enough, indentation, no TCO, etc. just make it worse
 
user
user
TS is pretty cool, but I had to make a gulpfile and then use Babel to turn it into ES5 and stuff, and it was extremely annoying
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
All of you are ignoring the superior language: Jelly
 
user
user
12:34 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing >(((((((((((((( Flagged as offensive
@user I ended up putting most of my code in JS stuck in my EJS file
Tbf I know nothing of web development
CMP: What is/are your favorite/favourite language(s) and why?
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
JS, because it's familar
 
user
user
No other reasons?
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
I like the type system
 
user
user
Someone ban Redwolf
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@user Yes, running it with 47 or 49 puts it below Hard-coded
 
user
user
12:39 AM
@user Scala, because it's so expressive
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Interestingly, 49 puts it below FunnyNumber, which seems wrong
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
typeof {} == typeof null && typeof {} == typeof [] && typeof {} == typeof /.+/ && typeof {} == typeof new Number(20)
 
user
user
@cairdcoinheringaahing That bot will haunt you forever
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
It just makes sense, y'know?
 
user
user
@RedwolfPrograms Not all of us can stretch our minds like that
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
12:40 AM
@user It's a one-off joke, it'll be mostly forgotten in a week, a month at longest :P
 
user
user
That's some 6D thinking
@cairdcoinheringaahing The public may forget it, but can you live with it?
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@RedwolfPrograms What does typeof null == typeof /.+/ return?
 
user
user
Can you sleep at night knowing the crimes you've committed?
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
true
 
user
user
Wait why?
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
12:41 AM
Why not?
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@user I've made enough 69/420 jokes before, yes :P
JS is actually being helpful here, it's telling you not to use regex :P
 
user
user
It actually kinda makes sense, they're both objects.
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Take everything you think you know about data types and put it in a carefully labeled box. Burn it and read ten paragraphs about why JS is so broken. Understand.
@user Technically null isn't an object
It's one of the few things that aren't
 
Wezl
Wezl
@user obv the ones I'm writing
plus scheme is nice
and lua
 
user
user
@RedwolfPrograms Meh, in Java, it ain't a primitive, so I'm gonna call it an object :P
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
12:43 AM
But a bug in an old browser made it considered an object by JS
 
Wezl
Wezl
prolog is cool so that too
 
user
user
@Wezl How's Concurr coming?
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Do you think null.toString() and String(null) do the same thing?
(no trying it)
 
user
user
@Wezl Why? (asking because I might want to try it, not because I think it isn't good)
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
No, if they did it'd be too sensible
 
user
user
12:43 AM
@RedwolfPrograms No
 
Wezl
Wezl
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
The first one errors because null is one of the two things that isn't an object sort of. Primitives have properties, at least.
 
user
user
One throws a NPE, other makes ???
 
rak1507
rak1507
@user apl because it's quick to write, powerful, and pretty fast, and python because it's just good at doing any old crap
 
Wezl
Wezl
@user it's super simple, plus tail call optimization is it's own reward (can't wuickly find the xkcd)
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
12:45 AM
 
user
user
@Wezl Ooh, TCO is nice. Is it just for direct tail calls or also for the wonkier kind?
 
Wezl
Wezl
@user wonkier kind?
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
 
Wezl
Wezl
it optimizes all tail calls, not just recursive tail calls if that's what you're asking
 
user
user
Oh ok
 
rak1507
rak1507
12:47 AM
neat
 
Wezl
Wezl
it has a nice jit too
 
user
user
Scala can only optimize recursive tail calls normally, you need trampolines if it's not recursive :(
@Wezl What's its performance like?
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Why wouldn't you just optimize any tail calls? is there a particular reason?
 
user
user
JVM :(
Java needs it for legacy reasons - older applications sometimes look at the stacktrace for stuff
 
Wezl
Wezl
@RedwolfPrograms harder, especially if compiling to something like Java or C that doesn't have them
so you use trampolines or pure CPS or something, which is slower
 
user
user
12:50 AM
Not optimizing them away can be a feature
 
Wezl
Wezl
it's not worth it IMO
 
user
user
gtg eat dinner
 
Wezl
Wezl
me too :)
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
me too
 
Wezl
Wezl
just gonna submit to koth
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
12:54 AM
clarification seems to be a bit of a useless tag, no? I think maybe 2 of the questions with it are specifically about clarification, rather than asking for clarification, which is the entire point of posting a meta question
 
OldSandboxPosts
OldSandboxPosts
Sandbox posts last active a week ago: (untitled), Getting to the root of the problem, (untitled)
 
Wezl
Wezl
1:11 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing is it disrespectful to capitalize your name?
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@Wezl no, why?
 
Wezl
Wezl
well the code that generates it doesn't output it capitalized ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
argh, my hy solution breaks the controller
or maybe I should say, python can't deal with the superiority of lisp :P
 
rak1507
rak1507
lol
 
Wezl
Wezl
1:42 AM
@user look at the comments here, I'll try to find one that actually showcases lua
above the first section
 
Wezl
Wezl
2:07 AM
I mean above the second section, 1-based indexing is so annoying
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
2:23 AM
The recursion limit on my browser matches /1+3+7+/, that's pretty 1337
 
Lyxal
Lyxal
2:34 AM
I lost a staring contest with a baby today
This is sad
 
user
user
2:47 AM
@Lyxal What happened?
@Wezl Thanks, both lua and wren sound interesting
 
Lyxal
Lyxal
@user okay so I was sitting in church and the person in front of me was holding her baby in a way so that the baby was looking right at me. So the most logical thing i thought to do was to see if i could outstare the baby. i failed by blinking first
 
user
user
3:10 AM
lol
 
rak1507
rak1507
3:22 AM
@Lyxal well obviously you did... babies can't blink
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
I knew they were robots
Beware of babies...they're planning something
I don't know what, but they've had millions of years to come up with a way to take over
 
user
user
@RedwolfPrograms Luckily, their plans never come to fruition because they turn into us and have too much homework to scheme
 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
Turns out it's really hard to mount a revolution when after a few years you automatically switch to the opposing side
2
 
 
2 hours later…
Razetime
Razetime
5:44 AM
@RedwolfPrograms team autobalance
 
 
1 hour later…
Wasif
Wasif
7:07 AM
Hi everyone
Pls give some feedback on this (sandboxed challenge)[https://codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/sandbox-for-proposed-challenges/22020#22020]
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif Markdown doesn't work in multi-line msgs.
 
Wasif
Wasif
@Adám Then should I use two different messages
 
Adám
Adám
Yes. They'll be merged visually.
@Wasif What does a. b mean?
 
Wasif
Wasif
a*b
See the note
 
Adám
Adám
If you're using MathJax, why not use a proper multiplication sign?
 
Wasif
Wasif
7:09 AM
Because . also means multiplication!
So do you think should i change to *
 
Adám
Adám
Surely not a low dot. ∙ or ×
Never use * for multiplication in traditional mathematical notation. That's an abomination.
 
Wasif
Wasif
Thank you for the suggestion I have edited the question
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif I don't understand the grammar of the sentence beginning "Your program might take".
Same with the next sentence, "And it can".
Should it say "if it returns"?
Or "if you return"?
Same thing with "if it prints" or "if you print".
 
Wasif
Wasif
My native language is not english, so grammatical errors occur. I changed "can" to "must not take any input", and the first two conditions can take input. And it has to print the results
Hope its clear now
 
Adám
Adám
Still invalid grammar.
 
Wasif
Wasif
7:15 AM
Where?
 
Adám
Adám
You still need "you" after the trailing "if"s.
Or add "it" and change the "print"s to "prints"s.
 
Wasif
Wasif
Ok. is there in a general problem i mean problem with the challenge itself
 
Adám
Adám
Still reading…
@Wasif With your latest edits, you now consistently speak of "program" and "print". Consider hinting that even "function" and "return" are valid.
 
Wasif
Wasif
Is this sentence clear for that "Function and return are valid, if you move the Function calls and printing to TIO footer."
 
Adám
Adám
I'd say that's way too specific.
I'd simply change "program" to "program/function" and "print" to "print/return". You can remove that newly added line.
 
New Sandboxed Posts
New Sandboxed Posts
7:21 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

WasifMeeker numbers sequence code-golf,math,number-theory Meeker numbers are a 7 digit number in form of \$abcdefg\$, where \$a×b=10c+d\$ and \$d×e=10f+g\$. As an example \$6742612\$ is a meeker number, here \$6×7=10×4+2\$ and \$2×6=10×1+2\$, so it is a meeker number. The Challenge Your program will ...

 
Wasif
Wasif
ok edited
 
Adám
Adám
For readability, I'd add "the" before "meeker" in the post body.
 
Wasif
Wasif
done it too
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif Is there a particular reason you ask for the nth number or all numbers in the sequence? Why distil the challenge to its essence and only require determining if a given 7-digit number is a meeker number?
 
Wasif
Wasif
@Adám Then wouldn't the challenge be too easy?
 
Adám
Adám
7:25 AM
Not really, only less cumbersome. Looping over all 7-digit numbers is trivial, but a bother.
In case you keep the "nth" requirement, you should specify whether 0-indexed or 1-indexed or up to the answerer.
 
Wasif
Wasif
@Adám Sorry but I would like to keep the old format. And nth requirement is 0-indexed.
I have edited the question again
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif No problem. Is there a particular reason you insist on 0-based rather than leaving it up to the answerer?
 
Wasif
Wasif
Not in particular, but then if 0 or 1 indexed the results might vary
But i'm free to change the 0 or 1 indexed rule
 
Adám
Adám
Both true.
 
Wasif
Wasif
OK so changed to both 0-1 indexed to leave it to the answerer
 
Adám
Adám
7:32 AM
I'd add a couple of test cases, and also write how many numbers there are in the complete sequence.
 
Wasif
Wasif
@Adám ok, thank you for doing that
 
Adám
Adám
For doing what?
 
Wasif
Wasif
adding test cases
 
Adám
Adám
:-) I wrote "I'd" meaning "I would" if I were you. I didn't write "I'll" as in "I will" write them for you.
 
Wasif
Wasif
hehe
Everyday i am learning new english grammar
 
Adám
Adám
7:35 AM
Another benefit of writing code golf challenges :-D
 
Wasif
Wasif
Then i would write a brute force program to do that today/tommorow
 
Adám
Adám
Wait, you didn't solve the problem yourself‽
 
Wasif
Wasif
Nope
that's why I have sandboxed it
 
Adám
Adám
Always solve your challenges yourself before posting them.
 
Wasif
Wasif
OK, though I'll not post it in main unless i solve it myself
 
Adám
Adám
7:41 AM
@Wasif Is 0000000 a meeker number?
 
Wasif
Wasif
LOL didn't thought it before
Technically it is
 
Adám
Adám
That's what the sandbox is for :-)
@Wasif Depends if leading 0s are allowed.
 
Wasif
Wasif
Then i would like to disallow leading 0s
 
Adám
Adám
If so, I can find 900 meeker numbers.
 
Wasif
Wasif
And good news counting the meekers is done
In total there are 900 
Here's the python program

    for _ in range(10**6,9999999):
         s = str(_)
         if((int(s[0])*int(s[1]))==((10*int(s[2]))+int(s[3])) and (int(s[3])*int(s[4]))==((10*int(s[5]))+int(s[6]))):
            print(_)
             n+=1
 
Adám
Adám
7:46 AM
You can't use ``` like that.
Instead, edit your msgs and press Ctrl+K.
 
Wasif
Wasif
Oh now the final makeup is ready
I added first few meeker numbers and banned leading 0s in them
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif Here's my APL program: 
+/{(×⌿⍵[0 1,⍪3 4])≡10⊥⍵[2 3,⍪5 6]}⍤1⍉10⊥⍣¯1⊢1e6↓⍳1e7
 
Wasif
Wasif
Haha you already prepared the solution
 
Adám
Adám
No, this just counts them, and isn't golfed.
 
Wasif
Wasif
oh
Should I keep it whole 3 days there? (I think most flaws are fixed)
 
Adám
Adám
7:51 AM
Are you in a rush?
I usually recommend a week, plus announcing here like you did.
 
Wasif
Wasif
No
Then keeping it 3 days will be ok
 
Adám
Adám
"And it must not take input if you print/return"
Some languages cannot have no-input functions.
It isn't clear if by "must not" you mean "doesn't need to" or "is prohibited from".
@Wasif You didn't amend "all the numbers" to "all the 900 numbers".
 
Wasif
Wasif
@Adám For that is this sentence ok: "And it cannot take input if you (If your language does not support input less functions, then you can take an input, but can't use it)"
And i have changed to "All the 900 numbers"
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif It is, but is also a but cumbersome to read. Why not just put the parenthesised sentence below the bullet point?
@Wasif Then you can remove "(The sequence is finite)".
 
Wasif
Wasif
ok
 
 
1 hour later…
New Sandboxed Posts
New Sandboxed Posts
9:03 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

WasifR.E.P.A.I.R. T.H.E. K.E.Y.B.O.A.R.D. code-challenge, string. restricted-source Sequel of this AWESOME challenge You, genius tech prodigy detective, have successfully disarmed the bomb. You found the computer contains a lot of confidential information regarding the evil organization. Now you want ...

 
Wasif
Wasif
9:13 AM
^ Can you give some more feedback pls?
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif "remaining your" → "remaining on your"
"your buddy says that have also set" → "your buddy says that they have also set"?
"and no time" → "and there's no time"?
"creating as much as possible programs for the 34 characters in password." → "creating as many programs as possible using the 34 characters on the keyboard."?
 
Wasif
Wasif
ok fixed the typos, actually our brain is used to read the typos normally
 
Adám
Adám
So you're saying there's no need to fix them?
I'd disagree. Only the author is used to read them, because he knows what he means.
 
Wasif
Wasif
no i didn't mean that
 
Adám
Adám
"You have to write as much as programs possible in the same language, that print the keys in password. But you can only use the keys which remain in your keyboard." needs a lot of help.
 
Wasif
Wasif
9:21 AM
@Adám there is not 34 characters on keyboard, just a few
@Adám see HELP MODE at the end :P
You don't need to make all 34 programs
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif OK, then you definitely need to fix the text, because that's not clear at all.
 
Wasif
Wasif
Should I bring the HELP MODE to the top
 
Adám
Adám
It isn't clear to me at all what that help mode is about.
 
Wasif
Wasif
HELP MODE can give you any three keys you want
To help you
But not any SHIFT+ or CTRL+ like multi key combination
 
Adám
Adám
Right, but do you always get three extra characters, or is that a different category of answers?
@NewSandboxedPosts I'm curious: What kind of keyboard layout do you use? " on Shift+2 is common on European language keyboards, but do you really have < and > to the left of Z?
@Wasif I don't understand the objective at all.
 
Wasif
Wasif
9:28 AM
@Adám the objective is to write as many as possible programs you can using those keys+HELP MODE keys
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif As many programs as possible that do what? Anything?
 
Wasif
Wasif
Each program output one key in password
 
Adám
Adám
So never more than 35 programs, correct?
 
Wasif
Wasif
35? isn't it 34
Are you clear about the objective now
 
Adám
Adám
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35
6 7 8 9 0 - = y u  i  o  p  [  ]  h  j  k  l  ;  '  \  v  b  n  m  ^  &  *  (  )  _  +  :  "  |
 
Wasif
Wasif
9:32 AM
oh then it's 35
 
Adám
Adám
I think I understand now, but your challenge text needs a lot of work.
 
Wasif
Wasif
You mean wording and the story?
 
Adám
Adám
The story obviously doesn't matter.
@Wasif On my keyboard, I cannot produce " using the given keys. Am I still allowed to use "?
@Wasif My keyboard has no < or > key (they are produced with Shift+, and Shift+. so what are the rules then for me?
 
Wasif
Wasif
@Adám try help mode then
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif I don't understand. Is the challenge relative to the answerer's keyboard or not?
@Wasif On my keyboard, Ctrl+q produces ? so am I allowed to use that?
And if not, then what exactly is the Ctrl included for?
 
Wasif
Wasif
9:39 AM
you can use then
 
Adám
Adám
This makes it impossible to compare answers.
E.g.: Am I allowed to choose a computer/keyboard layout that makes this easier?
 
Wasif
Wasif
How about using a single fixed keyboard layout
 
Adám
Adám
How about using a single fixed list of characters, except you must choose an additional 3 missing characters that you can use?
 
Wasif
Wasif
@Adám a single fixed list is already made isn't it? And it is not obligatory to take help mode
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif If so, then it isn't very clear. I suggest a total rewrite of the challenge:
> Using only the characters fillincharactershere plus three additional characters of your choice, generate as many of the following characters as you can: 7890-=yuiop[]hjkl;'\vbnm^&*()_+:"|
 
Wasif
Wasif
9:42 AM
Just now got this comment on main by @StackMeter
This is a very good challenge, apart from one thing - help mode is FAR too overpowered. I could take +, * and h (in Python), and write the password as chr(1+1+1.....) +chr(1+1+1.....) and write all of the characters that way, using multiplication to ease the process. Though, without it, I think this becomes a very interesting challenge, especially for languages like Befunge-98/<><, which would be unable to do as such. An idea would be to ban +/*, or add a penalty for using it, though I'm just throwing ideas around at this point, so take my up…
 
Adám
Adám
You also need to think hard about the scoring.
@Wasif Yes, I saw that. So?
 
Wasif
Wasif
@Adám should I reduce the number of help mode keys then
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif I don't know. Whatever number you choose, it'll be problematic for some languages. E.g. in BF I think you can print any fixed number using only + and . and in Whitespace you never need anything but Tab, Space, and Enter.
@Wasif It isn't clear if both uppercase and lowercase are permitted from e.g. the Q key.
@Wasif Do you really mean · and not # or £ or something? What kind of keyboard do you have‽
 
Wasif
Wasif
@Adám both upper and lower cases are permitted
 
Adám
Adám
Ah, a Spanish keyboard, isn't it?
@Wasif That wasn't clear. Much better to write a simple list of characters.
 
Wasif
Wasif
9:54 AM
@Adám Full list: 12345QWERTASDFG<>ZXCqwertasdfgzxc!@#$% Tab, shift, space, enter
I have edited the list to question
@Adám I have QWERTY keyboard
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif I don't see your edit.
@Wasif Sure, but it is a Spanish layout, no? The key next to backspace has upside-down ? and ! right?
 
Wasif
Wasif
I forgot to click Save button
And i changed help mode to take only one key
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif OK, now I see it, but it conflicts with the (too verbose, imo) backstory.
 
Wasif
Wasif
For avoiding confliction i added (Characters are case insensitive, you can use lowercases like a, s, d... too) line in the back story
because you have Shift you can write lowercase
the challenge needs a lot of work
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif It is easy to roll back edits. Can I try editing it?
 
Wasif
Wasif
10:03 AM
No problem, You are free to edit my challenges
 
Adám
Adám
Well, if we edit at the same time, it can get annoying :-)
 
Wasif
Wasif
Hehe i am not editing now go on
Also which is better among two

- HELP MODE can have only 1 character

- HELP MODE can have three characters, BUT if you use more than one key using HELP MODE, you need to give a -5 scoring penalty for the each two more keys
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif OK, done. Have a look.
 
Wasif
Wasif
@Adám WOW it looks too good now
 
Adám
Adám
Often, less text is better. Especially for code golf.
 
Wasif
Wasif
10:10 AM
Question golf :P
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif It still has issues. With only one fairy character, it is probably impossible in a lot of languages, and if you add more fairy characters, it probably becomes trivial in a lot of languages. This requires some thought.
 
New Sandboxed Posts
New Sandboxed Posts
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

tail spark rabbit earNon-hamming numbers code-golf number-theory Make a program, a function, or a subroutine that does one of these: takes no input to print/return a list of non-hamming positive integers, takes a positive integer \$n\$ as input to print/return \$n\$th non-hamming positive integer (in this case \$n\$...

 
Wasif
Wasif
10:41 AM
Three thoughts on fairy key, which one is better among them

- HELP MODE can have only 1 character

- HELP MODE can have 3 characters, BUT if you use more than one key using HELP MODE, you need to give a -5 scoring penalty for the each two more keys

- HELP MODE can have 3 characters, BUT if you are unable to add make more than 10 programs using the already characters, you can use the extra 2 keys penalty less
 
Adám
Adám
@Wasif The last one is hard to check.
 
pxeger
pxeger
I'd say "unlimited help keys, but add +10 score for each" or something like that?
 
Wasif
Wasif
@pxeger it should be -10 score, target is to make highest score as possible, do you mean that?
 
Adám
Adám
Then you need extensive testing to get the penalty balance right.
 
pxeger
pxeger
@Wasif oh, it's not code-golf, I see
 
Wasif
Wasif
10:44 AM
@Adám hmm... the 3rd rule gets eliminated
So what is better among 1,2 and pxeger's idea?
 
Adám
Adám
I'm not sure. Bonuses and penalties are usually problematic.
 
Wasif
Wasif
So your suggestion is to stick to the 1st rule, one extra key?
 
Adám
Adám
Not necessarily. It isn't easy to decide here.
@Wasif How did you choose which characters to allow?
 
pxeger
pxeger
I think it might be better with code-golf tbh. It's probably always gonna be possible to output all of them somehow in most languages, but code-golf gives it more of a challenge
 
Wasif
Wasif
@pxeger Isn't it all ready very challenging, making it not code-golf will give answerers' more ease to write, isn't it
 
Adám
Adám
10:50 AM
@pxeger In APL, you'd need need either ⎕av or ⎕ucs to convert numeric codes to characters, and neither can be used by adding one character to the permitted set.
In J, adding : gives you !: which gives access to a lot of functionality, but without any strings (no ') it'll be pretty much impossible.
 
pxeger
pxeger
@Wasif What I mean is: in the languages where it is possible to do a competitive number of the 35 characters, it will probably be possible to do them all. All the answerer has to do is find one way of outputting arbitrary characters within the constraints and then reuse it for all other characters. If you make it code golf then there's some motivation to improve on the answers, and allows you to more easily implement a penalty system for languages where it isn't possible ordinarily
 
Wasif
Wasif
11:11 AM
@pxeger ok thanks for your suggestion
 
New Main Posts
New Main Posts
11:47 AM
2
Q: Multiplicative Persistence #2

mathWe had a challenge on Multiplicative Persistence here. As a recap, to get a multiplicative persistence of a number, do these steps: Multiply all the digits of a number (in base \$10\$) Repeat until you have a single digit left More here on Numberphile: Numberphile "What's special about 2777777...

code-golf math arithmetic repeated-transformation
 
Lyxal
Lyxal
12:18 PM
@math reference sheet/tutorial for PyLite when?
 
 
3 hours later…
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
2:58 PM
14 hours ago, by caird coinheringaahing
clarification seems to be a bit of a useless tag, no? I think maybe 2 of the questions with it are specifically about clarification, rather than asking for clarification, which is the entire point of posting a meta question
 
New Sandboxed Posts
New Sandboxed Posts
3:23 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

caird coinheringaahingSaboteurs in our Halls This is a king-of-the-hill challenge, where one member on each team attempts to sabotage their team in secret. Similar to Red vs. Blue - Pixel Team Battlebots, bots will be divided into teams, based on the user ID number of the user who posted them. Your user ID can be foun...

 
Redwolf Programs
Redwolf Programs
@cairdcoinheringaahing Burn it! Burn it with fire!
Also TIL you can hit the reply button after typing the message and it'll just insert the number thing at the beginning for you instead of overwriting it
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@RedwolfPrograms 2 of the questions are specifically about clarifications (How do I get a clarification on a question? and Can we clarify the FAQ?), so it isn't entirely pointless, but it's not well-used :/
 
pxeger
pxeger
Is getting clarification not basicaslly just the point of meta?
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Yeah, but I think the tag should be used on questions that get clarification about clarifications
Meta-clarification
 
Wasif
Wasif
3:38 PM
Wow another kotH in python i am so happy
 
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