The Nineteenth Byte

7:00 PM

Or, just go find some answers that deserve downvoting and go -1 rep at a time

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI right, but after it gets deleted, the reputation loss from downvoting would be reverted, and i'd probably get demoted too xD

unless you mean like

for redwolf to post spam. i am wondering if there's a way for me to troll him by offsetting his rep again

ChartZ Belatedly

Suspend him :P

1 rep definitely isn't a multiple of 10 :P

hyper-neutrino

I don't recall if I've asked before, but are he/him fine for pronouns for you @RedwolfPrograms

@ChartZBelatedly bruh. i mean, you are correct, i suppose...........

Original Original Original VI

@hyper-neutrino After that, you can suggest edits to get more rep!

Wezl

what's the minimum amount of time you can suspend people for?

ChartZ Belatedly

7:02 PM

A week IIRC

Redwolf Programs

@hyper-neutrino He/him is fine, yeah

ChartZ Belatedly

Max is 9999 days

hyper-neutrino

1 day, I think

Original Original Original VI

@ChartZBelatedly What do you mean? It matches the regex 10*. Of course it's a multiple of 10 :P

4

hyper-neutrino

o.O

ChartZ Belatedly

7:03 PM

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI ...50?

:P

Original Original Original VI

Doesn't match the regex, sorry :P

ChartZ Belatedly

10* is non-negative powers of 10 :P

hyper-neutrino

0.1

Original Original Original VI

No, you've got multiple tens when you have a 1 and a bunch of zeroes.

That's how it works, doesn't it? :P

hyper-neutrino

I can enter a custom amount of days to suspend for; I think I can just do only 1 day; I know a user has been suspended for exactly three days before

idk the max, but I believe I am not allowed to suspend for more than 365 days

there is a user that was suspended for 275 on SO

years, that is

ChartZ Belatedly

7:04 PM

If MM would load for me, I could tell you :/

Network wide suspensions can be longer than 365 days, but I can't find anything about site-specific ones

hyper-neutrino

I don't know about site-specific ones, but IIRC volunteer moderators aren't allowed to suspend for more than a year

ChartZ Belatedly

I suppose you could always try it on someone's account, but not actually suspend them

Original Original Original VI

I'd like to volunteer for this experiment.

hyper-neutrino

@ChartZBelatedly what exactly do you mean by that?

i wonder if it'd be a problem if i created an alt and suspended it for testing. would definitely have to ask first, but i'm not that curious either way :P

ChartZ Belatedly

Like, go to someone's user page, click the mod button to suspend them, try and enter more than 365 days but don't actually click the "Suspend this user" button

hyper-neutrino

7:13 PM

it didn't error when i entered 9999 but it probably isn't checked until i try to go through with it

ChartZ Belatedly

Then a sockpuppet's probably the way to go

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

The Game of Cat And Mice | With Matrices Challenge This coding challenge is to figure out how many rounds the cat can live. In a \$4\times4\$ matrix, there are a number of mice and exactly 1 cat. Example: $$ \begin{bmatrix} 🐭 & 🐭 & 🐭 & ⬜ \\ ⬜ & 🐭 & ⬜ & ⬜ \\ ⬜ & ⬜ & 🐱 & 🐭 \\ 🐭 & 🐭 & 🐭 & �...

Original Original Original VI

@NewSandboxedPosts This is confusing me

Unrelated String

@ChartZBelatedly forgot we even have °

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI I think Marmalade was the name of one of the like four things I ended up vaguely trying to design and implement before I actually started on one

Redwolf Programs

Half the byte count of this is I/O, which is unfortunate because of how short the regex that actually makes it work is :/

Original Original Original VI

7:29 PM

Does JS have a flatMap function?

Redwolf Programs

It does, yeah

Oh good idea

Wait no

Bad idea

Unrelated String

~~but is it >>=~~

Original Original Original VI

⍨

Redwolf Programs

I'm joining with '' the first time, and '\n' the second

So it separates every token thing with a newline

Original Original Original VI

Oh wait, are you supposed to take in multiple lines and map each? That's annoying.

Redwolf Programs

7:31 PM

Yep :/

Original Original Original VI

Can you use replace?

Redwolf Programs

Oh good idea

Original Original Original VI

Honestly, the actual function is just 40 bytes: d=>d.replace(/(.)\1*/g,g=>g.length+g[0]).

@UnrelatedString Did you ever finish Marmalade?

Unrelated String

not even remotely

maybe it was what I renamed to Lumber before I abandoned Lumber

Original Original Original VI

That's too bad

Unrelated String

7:38 PM

wait no yeah Marmalade was just the normal kind of abandoned

it was going to be like
pathologically infixy

ChartZ Belatedly

I have found exactly 2 answers in Jelly that use Ṙ: 126999 (which can be shortened to not use it) and 159490

Original Original Original VI

What exactly does that mean?

rak1507

@ChartZBelatedly is there no entry on the quine page using “ØV”ṘV?

Unrelated String

oh yeah Ṙ is sort of important for quines

ChartZ Belatedly

Hang on, yeah, it's missed ”ṘṘ (the shortest Jelly quine)

Unrelated String

7:42 PM

G is still virtually useless for actual answers (as opposed to formatting output from them)

ChartZ Belatedly

Fixing that bug, it appears in 10 total answers (being used as Ṙ rather than in a string), and 8 of them are quine based :/

Unrelated String

:/

rak1507

@ChartZBelatedly how on earth does that work lol

Unrelated String

wait which two aren't

@rak1507 Jelly's print atoms don't suppress implicit output

rak1507

ohh

Unrelated String

7:45 PM

and most also don't have a trailing newline

ChartZ Belatedly

@UnrelatedString Wait, sorry, 9 of them are quine based

126999 (linked above) is the only one that doesn't

Unrelated String

so the only non quine is one of the ones you already linked

which is a polyglot that doesn't have any good reason to use it anyhow

oh yeah good old ḥ

there's been like one time someone actually pulled ḥ off hasn't there

ChartZ Belatedly

Hang on, I just refined the string filter and found two more: 93077 and 119577, although both the questions are tagged quine

Unrelated String

lmao

ChartZ Belatedly

@UnrelatedString Yeah, IIRC ais' method of optimally mapping strings to integers uses ḥ

Unrelated String

7:56 PM

ah, that

ChartZ Belatedly

8:13 PM

So I've just run a kinda cool test: Every week or so, I run this query to download all Jelly answers on the site. I just went through (via a program) every atom, quick and syntax symbol (chain separators) to see how often each of them are used, outside of string literals

€ and $ are by far the most used (in over 1000 answers) and there are 12 atoms that have never been used in an answer on the site: ØḂ ØV Øe Øė Øẏ Æ? Æ¿ ÆĊ ÆṢ ÆĿ æC

Original Original Original VI

Jelly has three 2-byte thingies? Why not just have one? Are there more than 255 of them?

Redwolf Programs

Yeah?

ChartZ Belatedly

Jelly has 6 different "ligatures" for 2 byte things: ØÆæŒœÐ

Original Original Original VI

How many 2 byte commands are there?

ChartZ Belatedly

Ø is constants, Ææ are math monads and dyads, Œœ are other monads and dyads, Ð are quicks

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI 182

Original Original Original VI

8:18 PM

That's a lot

Couldn't they still all be grouped under just 1 thingy for atoms and another for quicks?

ChartZ Belatedly

Yeah, but this way you can have ~1500 2 byte commands, where as the other way, you get 4 more one byte commands, but only ~500 2 byte commands

Unrelated String

current jelly could, but there's way more room to grow with more combo bytes

ChartZ Belatedly

Øa is used in 58 answers, and ØA in 108, that hurts :/

@ChartZBelatedly Interesting that both arccos and arctan have been used, but arcsin hasn't

Unrelated String

@ChartZBelatedly ØV has been used as an atom plenty, just only within string literals

that is interesting

ChartZ Belatedly

@UnrelatedString Yep. If we count usages inside string literals, then (unsurprisingly) the counts for the single bytes go up. Of those 12, Æ¿, ØV and æC have been used if we count inside string literals

Unrelated String

8:28 PM

I singled out ØV because it's used in string literals that get evaluated

ChartZ Belatedly

Oh yeah, I was just wondering which of the others changed :) I wonder if Æ¿ and æC are just coincidences in compressed strings, or if they were actually used in raw string literals

Unrelated String

Probably just compression but it would be very funny if not

ChartZ Belatedly

Not quite compression: ~~code page indices~~ base-250 integers

So the atoms themselves weren't being used :P

Unrelated String

:P

Original Original Original VI

9:12 PM

Why is type class derivation so hard :(

Unrelated String

as in like

making your own classes derivable

Original Original Original VI

Yeah

Unrelated String

I took a look at that myself like two days ago and I'm left with the impression that it may not actually be possible lmao

Original Original Original VI

Wait are we talking about the same thing?

Unrelated String

in Haskell?

Original Original Original VI

9:16 PM

No, Scala

Unrelated String

okay yeah never mind lmao

Original Original Original VI

I'm sure it's just as painful in Haskell, though, compile time stuff is so weird

Unrelated String

I think I found an extension that adds a derivable Generic class that lets you sort of pretend you can derive other things but that seems way more scuffed than just not bothering with derivation at all

Original Original Original VI

What's the extension?

Might come in handy later

Unrelated String

totally forgot

Original Original Original VI

9:21 PM

:(

Unrelated String

there's only so many extensions in GHC

uhh

Original Original Original VI

DeriveGeneric?

Unrelated String

surprisingly, it's called DeriveGeneric

could not have seen that coming

lmao we got it at the same time

Original Original Original VI

The thing is that it's not that hard to do this in Scala 2 with certain libraries, but I switched to Scala 3 specifically because it was supposed to be easier and more natural, and now nothing works ⍨

Unrelated String

:\

ChartZ Belatedly

9:31 PM

M definitely needs to be updated to match Jelly. This would be 11 bytes if M had ɗ and Ẉ

Lyxal

9:54 PM

New Main Posts

0

Q: How many numbers in a set to represent all up to N as sum of K numbers from that set?

You probably know puzzles of this kind: The post office wants to issue new stamps such that every price between ¢210 and $5 can be represented using at most 2 stamps. What is the minimum number of types of stamps required? (Or similarly: what coins are needed? what weights are needed?) We can g...

Redwolf Programs

I just wrote the most cursed golfy HTML/JS combo I've ever seen

Did you know that you can reference an element by it's id in JS? As a variable?

Never do it. The browser will hunt you down and kill you. But it works.

Wezl

wow TIL

Redwolf Programs

I wrote all of the HTML I needed, the script tags, and the decompression and drawing algorithms I needed in 287 bytes.

Lyxal

TIL you can't use markdown in SE chat profile

very sad

Redwolf Programs

10:02 PM

Wrong screenshot

But there's markdown in your SE chat profile thing!

Lyxal

no there ain't

there's other ways to italicise redwolf

Redwolf Programs

That's evil

Lyxal

𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘥𝘰𝘯'𝘵 𝘯𝘦𝘦𝘥 𝘮𝘢𝘳𝘬𝘥𝘰𝘸𝘯 𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦

𝙄 𝙙𝙤𝙣'𝙩 𝙨𝙚𝙚 𝙢𝙖𝙧𝙠𝙙𝙤𝙬𝙣 𝙖𝙡𝙡𝙤𝙬𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙥𝙚𝙤𝙥𝙡𝙚 𝙩𝙤 𝙗𝙤𝙡𝙙 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙞𝙩𝙖𝙡𝙞𝙘𝙨 𝙖𝙩 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙨𝙖𝙢𝙚 𝙩𝙞𝙢𝙚.

Redwolf Programs

you don't?

Lyxal

𝓅𝓇𝑒𝒸𝒾𝓈𝑒𝓁𝓎

Redwolf Programs

10:05 PM

That was markdown I used

**_

(or __*)

(or *__)

(or _**)

Lyxal

10:23 PM

@pxeger the acronym of your TIO clone is the same as the Australian Tax Office

Are you planning on using it to catch people committing tax fraud?

Original Original Original VI

@RedwolfPrograms Wait, how?

Redwolf Programs

If you have a <p id="fjlskag"> in your DOM, you can just do fjlskag.textContent and so on

It's bad practice

Original Original Original VI

Oh cool

That's pretty useful

@Lyxal <insert reply to your funny joke>

Neil

@RedwolfPrograms that's why I use it in all my PPCG stack snippets

hyper-neutrino

@RedwolfPrograms oh yeah I forgot you could do that. thanks for reminding me, I will go on to commit many heinous crimes against humanity with this knowledge

Redwolf Programs

10:36 PM

I love how this community's reply to anything that's bad practice is to use it everywhere

I can just feel the code review people shivering in fear

3

Original Original Original VI

@RedwolfPrograms Not anything that's bad practice, just anything that's golfy, which often happens to be bad practice :P

@RedwolfPrograms Not really, I was getting started on Code Review but then turned to the dark side a.k.a. Code Golf.

Redwolf Programs

:o

I perfectly sized it

I left exactly 720 bytes of...wait

I think copy+paste broke something

Yep, dropped 7 bytes

Well this is going to be painful

Great, I generated a bunch of compressed stuff but can't copy/paste it

I guess I could make a blob and download it or something

My decoding thing didn't work :(

Hmm, apparently one of the C0 control codes is getting stripped out

$10 it's a problem with \r

Yep

All the \rs are getting stripped out

Luckily I made room to account for extra things I needed to escape

Storing binary data in plain text is so much fun I want to jump out a window

How on earth do the \r characters get stripped out of strings even when I escape them?!

hyper-neutrino

10:59 PM

@RedwolfPrograms well you know what they say, opposites attract, which is why our communities are very close and have never had any conflicts or disputes before

Redwolf Programs

wait the \r wasnt the issue

oh no

im dumb

there was never a bug

Wait now I'm just confused

Original Original Original VI

@RedwolfPrograms You too?

You, HyperNeutrino, and ASCII-only need to work on your self-esteem.

Lyxal

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI <laughter>

Original Original Original VI

@hyper-neutrino Have there ever been any conflicts or disputes between CR and CGCC?

Redwolf Programs

There was going to be a KotH once

I think

Original Original Original VI

11:06 PM

@Lyxal <appropriate reply>

Lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms no, you're not "just confused". You're Redwolf Programs. Ffs get it right

Original Original Original VI

@RedwolfPrograms A KotH on CR?

Redwolf Programs

Between the sites I think

Original Original Original VI

Huh

Lyxal

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI <joke based on appropriate reply>

ChartZ Belatedly

11:06 PM

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI Yeah, it's a fun story actually :P

Original Original Original VI

@Lyxal <insert statement commenting on how funny the joke was>

@ChartZBelatedly It didn't happen, though?

ChartZ Belatedly

Obviously, the "rivalry" was a meme for a while until both sites decided to wind it down. Except, in 2017, Christopher tried to start a "friendly challenge", which generally was agreed would not be a good idea

I suggested a "friendlier" version (aimed to be more of a "you try code-golf, we try code-review", but quickly figured that, even if I wanted to put in the effort to run it, it might not even "work", so I dropped the idea

I think that's the "biggest" conflict that's happened, except for Stack Eggs

82

Q: When something that was supposed to be fun became not fun

StackEgg! What a great invention. Probably the best thing to hit Stack Exchange since the invention of unicoins! Very entertaining game, very fun to play. Many users have probably spent several hours playing this. And April Fool's day is not over yet. However, where there is great inventions the...

discussion fun april-fools stackegg

Original Original Original VI

Wait, what were STack Eggs?

ChartZ Belatedly

The April Fools minigame from 2015

From memory, each site had an "egg". The goal was to "graduate" your eggs (in the style of an SE site). However, it was possible to reset your site's egg back to the initial status, by 2 people voting to do so. Cue PPCG members realising they can "raid" CR and reset their egg so the PPCG had the upper hand

Original Original Original VI

Oh

Lyxal

11:15 PM

@ChartZBelatedly one of the reasons I like this site

Original Original Original VI

2 people isn't a lot

ChartZ Belatedly

What the animations looked like

@Lyxal A lot of people not on PPCG didn't like it :P

I can understand both sides of the argument tho TBH

> StackEgg is the 2015 April fool from Stack Exchange. It is a game that looks like a Tamagotchi where users can 'pet' their site, through asking, answering, voting, etc.

Original Original Original VI

This entire thing is pretty hilarious

Lyxal

Why is our site name still ppcg on SEDE?

Original Original Original VI

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ask the mods to edit it

ChartZ Belatedly

11:21 PM

Already asked

Oh that's cool :P My typical chat activity lines up almost identically to The Nineteenth Byte's typical chat activity

Original Original Original VI

Hmm, I wonder why :P

ChartZ Belatedly

Must be an odd coincidence :P

Original Original Original VI

Sadly, this befuddling mystery will forever remain unsolved :P

Yes, my typeclass is finally working!

It's as unstable as a drunk mongoose on a unicycle, but it'll do for now

ChartZ Belatedly

Any reason why specifically a mongoose?

I'd imagine a drunk dog on a unicycle would be just as unstable :P

Original Original Original VI

@ChartZBelatedly I had a bike made by that company

Not a unicycle, though

@ChartZBelatedly I disagree

Wezl

11:34 PM

indentation-based markup alternative:
- includes all the same features
- no ugly <>s
- super inconvenient to type

Lyxal

it's been way too long since i last had a message on the star board.

ChartZ Belatedly

TBF we've been pretty active when it comes to starring recently

Original Original Original VI

Lots of messages with 5+ stars

Lyxal

yet none are mine

Original Original Original VI

@Lyxal Happy?

Lyxal

11:36 PM

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI very

Original Original Original VI

:)

Redwolf Programs

Seriously, someone downvoted one of my challenges

Now I'm back to where I was

Original Original Original VI

Don't worry, I'll downvote 4 to make it up

ChartZ Belatedly

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI This is why we need more ROs, to stop such blatant star spam :P

Redwolf Programs

No wait, it's just that I repcapped so I got exactly 200 rep so the +2 didn't matter D:

Stupid repcap

Original Original Original VI

11:37 PM

@ChartZBelatedly :(

hyper-neutrino

suffering from success

ChartZ Belatedly

@RedwolfPrograms Go accept an answer :P

Immune from repcap and it's +2

Redwolf Programs

I already have on all my koths

Original Original Original VI

Sorry, Lyxal, my star's gone

Say something star-worthy

Lyxal

something star-worthy

Original Original Original VI

11:39 PM

@Lyxal Standard loophole, sorry

Lyxal

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI I did what you asked me to do

Original Original Original VI

Also, I didn't put it in quotes, and this isn't Ruby

ChartZ Belatedly

@Lyxal -1, flagging as not a serious contender :P

Original Original Original VI

@Lyxal No, that would be "Say \"something star-worthy\""

Lyxal

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI edited

Original Original Original VI

11:40 PM

@Lyxal Still doesn't make much sense

I never put "something star-worthy" in quotes, so you have no reason to believe it is a string literal that you have to repeat exactly.

Shame on you, Lyxal. Your comment has been downvoted.

hyper-neutrino

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI right, but you also didn't specify a language, so you have no reason to assert than Lyxal's interpretation is more incorrect than yours, assuming you have a formal specification for what you intended anyway :P

2

Redwolf Programs

Stupid s flag...spent way too long debugging that

ChartZ Belatedly

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI Charcoal would like a word :P

Original Original Original VI

@hyper-neutrino Gah, technicalities!

hyper-neutrino

redwolf: I am going to code the greatest code of all time
`s` flag: I'm about to end this programmer's whole career

3

Original Original Original VI

11:42 PM

@ChartZBelatedly word

There you go :P

ChartZ Belatedly

Man, the reduction of memes into text, while still maintaining their meaning, is wild :P

Redwolf Programs

Oh no, YouTube memes are leaking into The TNB

Original Original Original VI

"reduction?" I'd like to disagree there.

Reddit's been leaking here since forever

hyper-neutrino

more like purification, like how koolaid powder is not less but more flavorful than the juice derived from it

Lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms they always have been.

Original Original Original VI

11:44 PM

@hyper-neutrino ^ this

HyperNeutrino captured the essence of the meme. It's not the image but the text that makes it funny.

ChartZ Belatedly

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI Reddit leaks everywhere, but everyone just pretends it doesn't exist :P

Original Original Original VI

Well, sometimes it's the image too.

ChartZ Belatedly

The idea that memes can often be understood without text, or without images, is kinda cool tbh

Original Original Original VI

@ChartZBelatedly Is Reddit leaking everywhere, or is everywhere leaking into Reddit?

ChartZ Belatedly

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI Yes

Original Original Original VI

11:45 PM

Sometimes even when it's extremely blurry

Lyxal

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI you have this all wrong. Reddit is simply a subsidiary of the redwolf hivemind

honestly i would have thought you would have remembered this

Original Original Original VI

@Lyxal Ah, hence the "red" prefix

Lyxal

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI now you're getting it

Original Original Original VI

But what if Reddit == Redwolf? Then everything ∊ Reddit

Lyxal

Just found this snippet in my code:

def ___(): yield None
Python_Generator = type(___())

beautiful

ChartZ Belatedly

11:49 PM

Why not just Python_Generator = type(i for i in(0,))?

Lyxal

because I need the actual type of a generator

ChartZ Belatedly

Try it online!

Lyxal

like a yield generator

ChartZ Belatedly

Try it online!

Lyxal

@ChartZBelatedly oh wow that does wrok

*work

ChartZ Belatedly

11:50 PM

Python is weird when it comes to generators :P

Lyxal

yes

I know that

far too well

Redwolf Programs

I'd bet JS's generators are weirder

Or rather dumber

I don't know much about them though

ChartZ Belatedly

CMC: Without running it, what does print(i for i in (1, 2, 3)) output in Python 3?

Lyxal

sad thing is that maps and filters aren't the same type as i for i in(0,)

@ChartZBelatedly <generator ...>?

ChartZ Belatedly

@Lyxal Yep :P

I remember trying that when I first learnt Python and was confused why it didn't output 1\n2\n3 :P

Lyxal

11:53 PM

@ChartZBelatedly there's a reason why I had to write a Generator wrapping class

Original Original Original VI

So is foo(i for i in bar) passing a generator or a list to a function foo?

ChartZ Belatedly

A generator

Original Original Original VI

Okay, so it's just sugar for creating a generator separately?

Lyxal

wow I just tried to write is not as isn't in python

5

ChartZ Belatedly

Suppose so. If bar is an iterable and you need it to be a generator, then that works

Lyxal

11:56 PM

if type(rhs) isn't int: instead of if type(rhs) is not int:

ChartZ Belatedly

Use isinstance with types :P

Original Original Original VI

Does Python have macros?

ChartZ Belatedly

@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI No, but it's been proposed

Lyxal

@ChartZBelatedly except for the fact that I've screwed up the idea of types so much in my code: I've written a type checking function that returns the same type for int and float

this is a golfing language implementation after all

who gives a crap about good practices when it's all about shortness amiright?

ChartZ Belatedly

>>> type(3.5) == int
Yesn't

@Lyxal The interpreter shouldn't be golfed :P

Lyxal

11:59 PM

@ChartZBelatedly except you just helped me golf it.

;p

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