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3:00 PM
Man, I was so close with the user id for the Old Sandbox Posts bot: 101104
Okay what is the point of A101104
JS: [1,12,23].map(alert);for(;;)alert(24)
can I have f(0)=1 instead of f(1)?
That's usually allowed I think
3:04 PM
APL: 24⌊1+11×⊢
(works in lots of languages)
python: lambda x:min(24,1+11*x)
jq: [1,12,23][.]//24, 16 bytes, indexing instead of producing
@ChartZBelatedly Scala, naive answer: 1#::12#::23#::Stream.continually(24)
rust: |x|24.min(1+11*x)
@Bubbler jq, 15 bytes, [24,1+11*.]|min
@user can scala do something like min(24,1+11*_)
3:12 PM
@rak1507 Yeah, 24 min 1+11*_
@rak1507 math.min(24, 1+11*_) wouldn't work because it would be interpreted as math.min(24, x=>1+11*x) instead of x=>math.min(24,1+11*x), unfortunately
ooh, min is infix, coool
ahh that makes sense
nooo not more keywords, that's a bad idea
@Wezl Why? (and are you talking about min? It's not a keyword)
@user they're disgusting and make for a less extensible language
oh ok, if it's not a keyword, what is it?
@Wezl Too many keywords make for verbose and confusing code, but just the right amount makes for clear code.
3:15 PM
I don't see any keywords there though
@Wezl It's just a simple method. foo.bar(baz) can be written as foo bar baz in Scala.
ok that's acceptable
no it isn't
But foo bar (baz, foobar, blah) is foo.bar(baz, foobar, blah), not foo.bar((baz, foobar, blah)) (with a tuple) which is IMO a huge mistake.
that's horrible, whitespace has different meaning depending on context
3:17 PM
@rak1507 ? It's more natural
@rak1507 horrible I agree, but better than more keywords
@user What is the a.b(c) form of foo bar baz goo moo?
foo.bar(baz).goo(moo), no?
@Adám Left-associative with same precedence, so foo.bar(baz).goo(moo)
@Bubbler Yup
Q: Parse a Scala expression

userScala isn't a very commonly used language around here. Most of those who know it like it[citation needed], but some go :\ when they encounter its user-defined operators, saying they're too complicated. However, they're governed by a very simple set of rules, outlined here. Their precedence depend...

sorry my cat just jumped on my keyboard
3:18 PM
@user And foo bar baz goo?
@Adám Invalid (unless you unable postfix operators, which is highly discouraged)
@user if there are 3 things I hate it's 1) lists B) hypocrisy and 3) inconsistency
@user unable?
@Adám enable, sorry
@rak1507 Scala 3 aims to fix the last 2
@rak1507 why do you hate lists? what kinds of lists?
3:19 PM
@Wezl Joke ?
@Wezl What OS are you on?
it was meant to be a joke
@rak1507 The worst thing when coding is poor variable names and off-by-one errors
@Adám a bad one, does that matter?
@Wezl Well, UX OSs come with a built-in command to temporarily disable the keyboard so your cat walking on it doesn't cause harm.
3:20 PM
@ChartZBelatedly I like the variant with concurrency
@Adám it was completely unexpected, so I don't think that would help
@Wezl If ] was all you got from your cat walking on your keyboard, you have a very restrained cat :P
Or a broken keyboard
@ChartZBelatedly all I got before they pressed the enter button
My cats have a habit of pushing the close button in the top right of the screen with their faces
3:24 PM
Dammit, my bot keeps getting Captcha'd :/
@ChartZBelatedly I hope it's better than me at solving them :P
Well, it's a bot, so it isn't great :P
@ChartZBelatedly Same
They should just make captchas ask you to determine if a program halts :p
3:26 PM
@RedwolfPrograms That would be doable for certain programs
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

DanielOnMSEA Strange Sequence Challenge Write a function that takes a set of positive integers and outputs an integer. Winning criterion is codegolf, shortest bytes win. Your function will take input in the form of a set of distinct prime powers. Let's call this set \$S\$. You will use \$S\$ to compute the ...

@Adám create a variant? print that?
@RedwolfPrograms The British APL Association uses an APL expression as CAPTCHA.
The 3 hardest things in programming are: 1) Segmentation fault (core dumped)
3:27 PM
@Wezl Create some code that does something like that when given a list.
@Adám oh, that reminds me, that's today at 4 right
:( I will probably miss the first ~half an hour
I can't decide between rivers and ponds for my KotH's terrain generation
and I don't want both
but I can't decide which would be better
Ponds are less dangerous, I'd prefer those over rivers.
3:30 PM
Rivers are more interesting
Ponds are just dead rivers
@ChartZBelatedly It's harder to die from dead things.
I think I'll go with ponds, just because making rivers look like rivers is way harder
@Adám that links to gold code-golf to me, did you mean codegolf.stackexchange.com/help/badges/134/math
3:59 PM
There's lots of answers already but some people say it's a good idea
@GoldFarmerSprow Maybe when you first posted, but definitely not after so many answers have been posted
Nope I don't suggest to do so
Okay thanks
They're annoying though, I wish I had banned them :(
@GoldFarmerSprow We suggest using the Sandbox for questions in the future by the way, to avoid uncertainties like this :)
Why can't I quote posts? What's the problem
4:01 PM
@ChartZBelatedly Thanks!
@Wasif How do you mean?
@Wasif in a comment? answer? chat message?
@Wezl Chat message
@ChartZBelatedly Can you quote them
@Neil Yes.
\> quoted part without the backslash
4:03 PM
> quote
@ChartZBelatedly Oh reloaded the page now I can quote chat messages, sorry
Oh, do you mean quoting like this?
@ChartZBelatedly Nope because of network problem I think the chat page didn't load fully, then The curved arrow shaped buttons to quote message to another user disappeared (You can see I can't quote GoldSparrow) post, It has been fixed now
@Wasif Oh, replying?
Clicking the "reply to this message" button?
@ChartZBelatedly Yeah that, I didn't knew the exact word to express that (Not a native english speaker)
4:09 PM
@Wasif No worries, we got there eventually :)
@Wasif the hover text says "link my next chat message as a reply to this", though I guess you couldn't access that
@Wezl Yes I was talking about that button, Now i am able to access that
I think this is the one reason mobile chat is better, we just press a message and reply to that ;-)
Why do questions get so many more votes than answers
@GoldFarmerSprow Because each question has >10 answers, but only 1 question
if there's only a few answers, though, I'd say there's usually more votes for the best answer
4:16 PM
It's annoying when I put less work on a question then answers but I get way more from the question
Personally, I upvote any question I answer and I upvote any valid answer to my challenges (barring a few exceptions), and if everyone does the same, then questions will get more upvotes
@GoldFarmerSprow people usually like to upvote question, instead of going through the answers and vote on each one, same goes for downvoting, but it doesn't mean that answers are ignored
Can't do much about it :\
especially e.g. the GOL tetris got a lot of votes but it didn't take much work (I assume), but the answers got more because it was hard
If you're proud of your answer, that's good enough. It doesn't matter that other people don't see it.
4:17 PM
Also I answer lot of old questions :\
@GoldFarmerSprow I know how this sounds coming from a high rep user, but honestly, the best thing to do is to ignore rep :/ People will upvote what they want to, and they don't really care what you think of your answers, unfortunately
@Wezl It took a year and a half of work
16 hours ago, by user
Someone needs to make a .anguish extension for files that lets others feel your pain
@user's advice is the best way to look at it, tbh
(not that bit of advice :P)
@ChartZBelatedly * writing the question
@Wezl Oh yeah, the question's an awful example for people wanting to see how to write a good first question
4:20 PM
actually I was wrong and @GoldFarmerSprow is correct, because the question still got more votes than any single answer
What question?
@Wezl The answers also got ~10k in bounties IIRC
Upvotes on questions used to be +5 rep, right?
Q: Build a working game of Tetris in Conway's Game of Life

Joe Z.Here is a theoretical question - one that doesn't afford an easy answer in any case, not even the trivial one. In Conway's Game of Life, there exist constructs such as the metapixel which allow the Game of Life to simulate any other Game-of-Life rule system as well. In addition, it is known that...

@user Yep, and thank god they changed it :P
@ChartZBelatedly ok true so it almost supports my claim
4:23 PM
That question doesn't deserve that many votes I think
@Wezl In stack overflow image is opposite, answer usually get more upvotes than question
@GoldFarmerSprow Before the answers, it was at about +400 IIRC. Getting answered (which got reported in some tech websites/newspapers) brought in a bunch of new users who upvoted it to the moon
@user yeah the rule change was to encourage more questions
@Wasif CGCC is much more upvote-happy than SO.
@user Yeah I don't understand what problem they have, any newbie will get more than 5 downvotes and over 10 comments explaining the problem with the question
4:28 PM
What's PPCG?
@GoldFarmerSprow Programming puzzles and code golf
@Wasif Because newbies often write poor questions.
Later our site name changed Code golf and coding challenges
@GoldFarmerSprow The old name of the site
I admit, the tone on SO is not as friendly as here.
4:30 PM
Q: What are our specific abbreviations and terms?

AdámNewcomers to codegolf.SE are often compelled to ask what many of our abbreviations and terms mean. Let us list them here so this information always will be easily available.

@user Understandably. I'd be just as annoyed as them if 99% of our questions were the off-topic/VLQ/spam they get
@ChartZBelatedly And it doesn't help that people take downvotes and closed questions personally (I do that too, even though I know it's not meant to insult me or something). Perhaps if "close" could be changed to something else to indicate non-permanence, it would be better.
@user I'm talking about unclear questions and stuff, of course, not duplicates or spam.
anyone else have an ungodly obsession with golfing their TIO headers and footers?
@pxeger No, but I have a godly one :P
4:35 PM
Ugh, I just spent 30 minutes debugging my Jelly code, turns out I forgot which way i takes it's arguments ಠ_ಠ
@pxeger Nope, because I rarely use Headers and footers ;-) (except posting a C# answer)
My answers are boring and unimaginative, what could I do to make them more interesting while maintaining a low byte count?
@expressjs123 JQuery :::D
@expressjs123 codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/2682/… + plus some research
@Wezl Could you give an example? I mean, yes, you're right, jQuery would be useful in DOM-related challenges
4:49 PM
@expressjs123 It's just a joke needsmorejquery.com
@Wasif thanks for the link, pretty sure I might have heard the jquery joke before
Learn (or make!) an interesting esolang, or find interesting old challenges
I should make a bounty for shortening javascript answers using jquery
@RedwolfPrograms Learning an esolang is harder than making one
Harder than making a simple one, yes.
4:57 PM
@Wasif Depends on the esolang
@user yes serious esolangs are less in number
But making an interesting esolang that's not just a trivial BF derivative takes a while
you can make one easily but learning a general purpose esolang like befunge has more long-term benefits
It's certainly helped me write more portable code
Found another article on golfing in Javascript: gist.github.com/attilabuti/78a493f174803c47c49f
@expressjs123 Find more interesting challenges ;)
5:04 PM
@expressjs123 Use some math stuff
@expressjs123 answer hard questions
@user Usually I get fascinated when I see use of insane math formulas
Browse Dennis' answers for those :P
@Wasif Unfrotunately I can rarely ever find clever tricks myself :(
5:06 PM
@rak1507 me too
@ChartZBelatedly yeah I have seen his some answers
I guess there are little things like in APL x∨0 is x and x∨1 is 1
there's the fact you can find minimum distances between points in a matrix with ⌊.+⍨⍛⌊⍨⍣≡
that's a fun one
@rak1507 Wow
5:21 PM
anyone who writes challenges mandating a particular IO format and then refuses to change it should be given a rapid impromptu knife juggling lesson
Q: Sociable sequences

ChartZ BelatedlySociable numbers are a generalisation of both perfect and amicable numbers. They are numbers whose proper divisor sums form cycles beginning and ending at the same number. A number is \$n\$-sociable if the cycle it forms has \$n\$ unique elements. For example, perfect numbers are \$1\$-sociable (...

@pxeger If we're thinking about the same challenge, that was in 2015 :P
I suspect we are
Caesar equivalence?
5:24 PM
Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if you asked again and DJ changed his mind :P
@pxeger I think rules regarding I/O format should be nuked, because they make absolutely no sense in some languages
@ChartZBelatedly true ill try
Question to you all, how many of you like to use other online interpreters instead of TIO?
TIO is best
@Wasif I use Scastie for Scala answers
5:31 PM
@user @Wasif I'd probably feel a lot more accomplished when I finish an answer using insanely hard formulas
TIO is awesome, but it hasn't been updated with the latest versions of a lot of languages.
@Wasif I use ideone because I can't access TIO, and of course I use my own interpreters if I can
@user yeah i really feel need for Windows batch there
yeah, I've been considering making a fork (or rewrite?) with new stuff (and I'll endeavour to keep it all up-to-date as much as physically possible!)
@Wasif TIO is hosted on Linux, so Batch can't be added (Dennis has tried before)
5:33 PM
@pxeger That would be amazing
Mar 8 at 17:08, by Redwolf Programs
I've got a physical server with 8 cores and 24gb of ram. I'm using it for my websites right now, but if there'd be a lot of demand and I had enough time (and my server/internet could handle it) I could try to set up a TIO instance for any languages the regular TIO doesn't support properly at some point in the future
Mar 8 at 9:33, by Adám
If someone was willing to do it, I'm pretty sure my company would pay them €500 a year for the expenses and the work.
@ChartZBelatedly Oh thanks for clarifying
this seems like a promising alternative, but it doesn't have many languages and it doesn't have a full web interface
5:36 PM
Someone else hosting TIO isn't a big problem to do. So long as someone is willing to put in the time, effort and money, it's basically set up so that anyone who wants to can
@pxeger In which OS you are planning to host?
I never said I was definitely gonna do it (and I'm definitely not taking on the responsibility of hosting it), chillax! But Linux obviously
The issue is finding someone willing to put in the time, effort and money. I would, but I don't have anywhere near the knowledge/expertise with Linux as I'd want, and I'm not comfortable enough porting it to windows or mac
There is also:
in talk.tryitonline.net, Feb 3 '20 at 17:09, by Dennis
If somebody of you is interested, I could give your access to the servers and we'd keep them in shape together. It doesn't have to be all the time, but it would be nice to have somebody to fall back on if I become incapacitated again.
But that would require some interaction with Dennis, and I have no idea whether he'd be up for that or not, given that that was a year ago
What exactly happened to make Dennis leave? Was it because of stuff SE did or because he was sick or something? (and if it's the latter, is he all right now?)
he's had mental health issues
read the full context of the transcript ChartZ linked
5:46 PM
To cut a long story short (and from my understanding): for the last few years, Dennis has suffered with mental health issues. Mid 2019, he developed tinnitus which exacerbated these issues and he took a break from SE. Feb 2020, he comes back and explains what happened, said he was on the road to recovery and fixed a few bugs with TIO. Then, early March, he stopped being active again, and we haven't heard from him since then
That's sad.
What's even worse is that there's no way we can help him :(
1 hour later…
6:50 PM
personally I find that upvotes are very good for my mental health
7:02 PM
@Neil Unfortunately for me, they're more like a drug - they make me happy but I'm sad when I don't get my fix :\
1 hour later…
8:20 PM
CMQ: What's your worst answer/question?
(Out of the undeleted ones)
@rak1507 What's so bad about it? I could never make a Jelly link that long with all the chaining rules
that it took no effort
I've mentioned it before, but my top answer is just a single Mathematica builtin
I don't know how to use Mathematica, so there isn't even a link to TIO or anything.
8:24 PM
yeah lol
My most embarassing question is probably the tips question for Scala 3 where all the answers are mine. Some of the tips are actually useful, but now that I'm looking at them again, a few are borderline useless.
I always cringe when I look at my first answers - most of them are stuff like _.last, _.product :\
8:38 PM
Any feedback? (I'm adding a walkthrough of hashing a string)
Not in the spirit of the challenge, but at least it's funny (and points out a fatal flaw)
@user this, I shouldn't have answered.
@Wezl Yeah, all the answers to that question are pretty trivial.
Perhaps if the question had been a popcon from the start, that could have been avoided.
@user right, but I shouldn't have answered
I wasn't even first so it didn't point out anything new
8:51 PM
Not disagreeing with you there
Only Conor O'Brien's answer was somewhat interesting
this is my highest voted one that deserves it: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/217214
This is probably one of the answers I've worked the hardest on (it took a couple of weeks), but it didn't get a ton of votes because it's on an old question. I'm stealing some rep from Adám by requesting a bounty on it, though :P
and this is maybe the answer I'm most proud of: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/214073/97857
@pxeger That was a really interesting one to see - I was really confused by how there were no strings or anything in your code
Why do all my answers that aren't in Scala get so many upvotes?
It disappoints me that basically nobody uses zsh, and therefore nobody knows which are my cleverer answers (I suspect I only get the 1 obligatory pity upvote from the challenge author)
9:00 PM
One of my first Haskell answers (a pretty easy one ) got 11 upvotes, but the ones I work hard on - even ones to new questions - get maybe 1 or 2 upvotes. :[(
21 hours ago, by user
Someone needs to make a .anguish extension for files that lets others feel your pain
Answer popularity is basically only based on the popularity of the question. Maybe there should be a metric for proportion of people who saw it that upvoted
I realize I've just repeated that thrice in the past day
the answer I've worked the hardest on is this, but it's not at all creative.
@pxeger It's hard to tell if someone saw your answer or was just scrolling past it.
@Wezl So the part you worked hard on is the lisp, not the answer?
@user yes
yeah I looked at it today
9:04 PM
Sorry, wrong link
@Wezl Oh ok
I'm just waiting for someone to create a way for computers to interface with human brains, so everyone can just know what everyone else wants to say and is feeling.
@user it's called LSP, now just the connecting part is the problem :P
@Wezl Bleh, who needs the LSP when you have the PSI? IntelliJ > VS Code
IDK I've not used either
Oh ok
actually maybe I have
9:09 PM
Which editor are you making the language server for use with?
@user I don't know but I guess I just assumed our brains internally used JSON, so it would be simple to implement
@Wezl If this were a superhero comic, some evil scientist would just insert a USB into someone's head and give them superpowers.
@Wezl Oh wait, for some reason I thought you were implementing it for your language
@user no I'd have no idea how to do that
but my language does hope to create the perfect interface between humans and computers
except it uses # for comments and it's too late to change that :::(
@Wezl Why is it too late to change it to // or something else?
@user no, I'd change it to ; because it's rare for ; to make sense in identifiers while # could mean like count. Also ; is easier to type on qwerty
9:18 PM
@Wezl Does Common Lisp use ;; or ;?
@user ; for line comments, #| |# for block comments
9:39 PM
Why does there have to be a rep cap :(
@GoldFarmerSprow If it makes you feel better, you get a badge once you hit enough rep caps :)
10:02 PM
@pxeger Shitposts that exploit the problem(s) with a challenge, while still being valid are the best shitposts :P
That's why I like this answer of mine :P
@ChartZBelatedly I would have downvoted it if your score hadn't been 19 :P (just kidding, of course)
Should've waited 2 hours to advertise that, I've already repcapped today :/
That's karma for you :)
I'm willing to give away 50 rep if someone promises to use :\ or /: instead of :/ from now on.
I'd say sure, but I'd feel bad taking 50 rep for something that easy :/
@user (does this qualify as a shitpost?)
10:06 PM
@user so I use https:\\chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/240/ ?
@Wezl No, https:\/chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/240, as you're only replacing the :/ bit :P
@Wezl You must also never use :/ ever again.
@ChartZBelatedly It's fine, more chaos is good :P
@ChartZBelatedly it reminds me of languages with native regex syntax, which I hate
Whaddaya know, https:\/chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/240 still takes me here
@Wezl You think that's bad? Scala 2 has XML literals. Weirdest thing I've ever seen.
@user :O I'm going to discipline it so bad.
10:09 PM
@user You can never escape TNB
@ChartZBelatedly I tried starring this but I've used my vote allowance for today :(
I like pascal strings, because you only have to escape quotes, which don't even have a meaning in regex
does anything get starred besides jokes?
@Wezl Yeah, but jokes are much more common.
But mostly jokes
oh I guess a lot of messages discussing SE
10:11 PM
8 hours ago, by ChartZ Belatedly
The trick is to post the cops challenge at 23:59 and the Robbers at 00:01 :P
^ See? That one's serious.
2 days ago, by Monica Cellio
Anyway, if there's something you want on Codidact, please let us know. You can use main meta, the per-community metas, GitHub issues, Discord -- even pull requests, depending. :-) Please let us know how we can help you have a better experience. We might not always be able to deliver quickly, but we do try our best do do what's best for our communities.
That kind of thing
Is "JSON fan boys" a thing?
we should have a feed: new starred messages
That;s called the starboard
@ChartZBelatedly I prefer right because I'm not a sailor.
in Old Sandbox Posts testing, 7 hours ago, by ChartZ Belatedly
No, why did you talk?
in Old Sandbox Posts testing, 7 hours ago, by ChartZ Belatedly
Right, shut up
I'm very nice to my bot :P
it might actually be interesting to see starred messages from a while ago
in Old Sandbox Posts testing, 7 hours ago, by OldSandboxPosts
I'm alive!
Careful, ChartZ
@ChartZBelatedly I mean automatically
@user What do you think I've been doing in the past 7 hours? Terminator was wrong about how hard bots are to kill, I found it fairly easy tbh :P
@ChartZBelatedly obviously they've never heard of ctrl-c
@ChartZBelatedly Where were you when the T800 attacked John Connor? :P
10:17 PM
@Wezl I recommend that everyone does the following at least once. Copy https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/240/ into your URL search bar, then add year/month/day (numbers, e.g. 2021/1/17) after it and read that day's transcript
2016's a solid year to go to :P
Any particularly entertaining quotes from then?
Jul 20 '17 at 20:14, by trichoplax
To escape closure, a fibonacci challenge has to be as good as the previous 2 fibonacci challenges put together
What about an n-bonacci challenge?
Wanna see something funny?
@Lyxal No.
10:21 PM
Tell you what, I'll give you 50 rep for not using :/
@user :-)
@ChartZBelatedly I see no problem with that. Waffles > pancakes = 0
@Lyxal What's the funny thing, anyway? A rickroll?
@user it's much funnier than Rick
10:23 PM
@ChartZBelatedly Someone star this for me, please.
@Lyxal Pretty low bar, but okay :P
There are rocks among us!
Is this the part where someone says "Amogus"?
They are looking sus!
You are lucky I'm not an RO, I'd kick you for that :P
Hey I put effort into arranging those rocks yesterday
10:26 PM
@ChartZBelatedly You can still kick them, just make sure you're socially distanced :P
And I put effort into uploading the image on mobile too
Now I know what you do in your spare time
@user you are utter bees
@user yes. You clearly don't know that I once had a rock pile with 1k+ rocks in it
Razetime knows though
@Lyxal Oh yeah? Well, I am the Rock.
No one's ever seen me and the Rock in the same (chat)room at the same time.
@user so why weren't you in my pile?
10:29 PM
@Lyxal I was too busy acting in a movie.
@user well it's too late now
The pile is gone
Some idiot ran it over
@Lyxal Ran over a rock?
@user ran over a tall pile of rocks
How?! Are they all right?
Here's how it looked the last day I left it
10:32 PM
^ Star this please
And here's what I found the next day
Could we stop with the rocks please?
2 weeks worth of work ruthlessly destroyed
Those look like stock photos - pretty sus
Oh no, I might be next
@user I doubt it
I never rebuilt the pile
@user I have a gallery of its growth if you're interested
10:35 PM
@Lyxal I am
I'm not joining that server, it looks sus.
It's me, razetime and Dion
It's for Dions esolang MAWP
Q: What is up with the waffle fetish?

John RaschSetting aside the fact that waffles were created in the seventh circle of hell, cause suffering and apocalyptic horror wherever they are witnessed, and are instruments of pure evil, where did the obsession with talking about them in every thread arise? Can we stop this and have more waffles? A...

Just, the answers, the question edit history, just everything about that is glorious :P
The good old days
The original question wasn't even that bad
10:39 PM
@user join
And see my rock pile history
10:56 PM
@user I don't have a single worst answer, as none of my answers have an overall negative score, and even my "worst" question has a score of 10, but that's because I have asked so few questions
also good point about votes being additive to whoever it was, I meant to reply at the time but it timed out :-(
00:00 - 15:0015:00 - 23:00

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