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12:15 AM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Dannyu NDosSubbasis. Generate. Discrete? Objective Given finitely many finite sets, interpret them as a subbasis to generate a space, and decide whether the resulting topology is discrete. Introduction to Topology Given a set \$X\$, a topology \$\mathcal{T}\$ over \$X\$ is a subset of the power set \$\mathc...

2 hours later…
2:36 AM
I guess having someone fixing the Google.com challenge is better than closing it.
It will probably not conflict with op's intent anyway.
What do you think about "at most 1000 IP addresses"?
@user202729 I think it's a poor fix
The challenge is a classic example of a new user posting without the Sandbox
When you don't know op's intent, any kind of edit has a chance to conflict with it.
Clear on the surface, but closeworthy as soon as you ask for specifics
@cairdcoinheringaahing As a new user I guess op is not that good at knowing what weird things answers may come up with.
So at the moment fixing it ourselves is a better option.
@user202729 Yep, which is why we have the Sandbox
2:40 AM
I mean it's probably better to edit the challenge to reopen it than leaving the challenge closed because the op is busy right?
It isn't perfect, but one thing the Sandbox is consistently good at is pointing out "loopholes" that experienced users are aware of, but new users aren't
@user202729 I disagree, mainly because closing is revertable
I think closing unclear challenges and then reopening them is better than editing in clarifications that aren't what the OP originally think/want
@cairdcoinheringaahing +←1
@Razetime Huh?
Well I'll do this...
Would you mind if the rule is changed to "You have to output at least one IP address of Google.com, and there must be no more than 1000 different IP addresses in the output"? — user202729 1 min ago
Who knows if op want to intentionally leave the print all addresses open.
2:55 AM
Having been in OP's position, I reckon OP wanted to allow people to print garbage such as the output of ping <ip> or whatever such commands output, rather than allow people to print every possible IP address
> Next badge
I'm close :D
CMC: Given an integer 1 ≤ n ≤ 6, output how many reviews you have done for a specific review queue. You may choose which integer corresponds to which queue. Shortest code wins
///, 1 byte: 0
Valid for some users.
@user202729 Boo, shame :P You don't review?
My numbers are 16 16 24 31 46 63 when sorted.
APL, 17 bytes: ⊃⌽∘63 16 24 31 46
3:11 AM
CMC': The same but you are also given a user ID rather than using yours
@Bubbler What's your Suggested Edits score?
Only 84 until the Proofreader badge :P
Alternatively: review until the number for the queues are equal, then submit a short solution.
Which queue is the 63?
@user202729 Either way, success :) More reviews, or good answers :P
@cairdcoinheringaahing LQP
3:20 AM
CMP: For those with "not that many" reviews (think <100 in any queue): why? Meaningless bonus if you have a total of 0 reviews and you have more rep than whatever is required
Because I usually do moderation by browsing the problematic posts directly, not via queues (and I gave up the queue-related badges)
@cairdcoinheringaahing because you've never tried reviewing on mobile
@Lyxal I have, I just prefer desktop :)
If I want to even access the queues easily, I have to use desktop version
On mobile
Idk what version I have on my phone, but it isn't difficult to review while on mobile
3:35 AM
And ddg doesn't let me have userscripts
So no queue stalker
Fair enough :P
I guess I have enough time to mainly use my computer
3:55 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing I only review when the red dot shows up next to the queue icon, which is basically never on CGCC (I’ve completed a grand total of 1 review on meta, but unlike stack overflow, I’ve done none on main)
@cairdcoinheringaahing Because the review queues were always empty, and I didn't learn about review stalker until October
Also I broke chat
@RedwolfPrograms Huh?
@RedwolfPrograms Thanks to me, IIRC :P
A bunch of the chat messages' backgrounds turned dark gray and won't go back
(That's unrelated to reviewing)
(Those were separate things)
@cairdcoinheringaahing Scala, 3 bytes: _*0
3:58 AM
I'm almost at 100 first post reviews, which is pretty good IMO
That's around one per day
How do you do it?
It's interesting that 250 reviews for a specific queue is a silver badge, but 100 is bronze for Suggested Edits
Do you constantly refresh the reviews page?
The last time I told, Redwolf started beating me in the recent review pages :P
But, I guess I could do with the competition. I use Review Stalker Reloaded
@cairdcoinheringaahing Dont worry, I’m too lazy for that
@cairdcoinheringaahing Thanks
4:03 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing I say that, but of those who are ahead of me in total reviews, only WW and Stephen are still active, so I guess it isn't much issue
CMP: What review related badges do y’all have?
Custodian for all 6 and Reviewer for Close Votes and First Posts and Proofreader
Custodian is the bronze one, right? Or is it silver?
Custodian = Complete 1 review task. Rewarded once per queue
Ah, ok
4:08 AM
Proofreader is bronze, 100 suggested edits reviews
Reviewer is 250 reviews from any queue
Ah, I see
Wish I could transfer my SO badges here to pretend I did stuff :P
Review badges on SO don't mean as much as on any other site tbh
@cairdcoinheringaahing Which is why I have any :P
Take a look at Mr Xcoder :P He has <5k rep on SO, but has a Steward badge
@cairdcoinheringaahing Triage is actually hard, though
I got banned twice and never went back
4:13 AM
@user I'd say Close Votes or Reopen Votes is hard. Triage is ok if you've got reviewing experience
@cairdcoinheringaahing That’s pretty amazing
Q: Make a !!!Batch interpreter

Wasif!!!Batch is another derivative of the Windows Batch programming language, its wiki is here Your challenge is to create an interpreter that reads a !!!Batch program and returns a Windows Batch program. In !!!Batch each character is converted to another ASCII character, like '?!?' -> 'a' and so on ...

@cairdcoinheringaahing Close votes not so much, but yeah, Reopen votes can be a bit hard to judge
@user It's all about dedication. Given the number, I could get 3 Steward badges on SO in a week, but I don't want to wade through a shit ton of crappy off-topic questions
On PPCG, I actually like the community, so I'm willing to review whenever a first post or late answer shows up
On SO, I no longer give a fuck, because they don't care about new users anymore (for good reason)
@cairdcoinheringaahing The crappy questions make it all the more important to review more
4:18 AM
SO is a different site to all the other sites on SE
It hasn't scaled well
The obviously awful ones are way better than the subtly bad ones that are doomed to go downvoted and unanswered
@cairdcoinheringaahing While it’s not as welcoming as CGCC, it’s not downright hostile
@user Unfortunately, a lot of new questions are "I have problem, how do I do X?" and that's not on-topic on SO
@cairdcoinheringaahing Sometimes I feel like each major framework or language needs its own site
However, they get so many questions and not enough VTC users to properly handle poor quality
4:20 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Not necessarily (and that doesn’t mean they don’t care about new users)
I have no idea how you get rep on SO. You either ask good questions, which requires being simultaneously bad at debugging and good at pinpointing the problem, or you answer hundreds and hundreds of questions
@cairdcoinheringaahing Especially in tags lije java and python
We can handle shit questions because we've never had more than 10 close-worthy questions in a day. SO has thousands of awful questions a day, and people on Reddit (and similar sites) turn around and complain that "SO is so mean, they keep closing my duplicate question as a duplicate even tho it's totally different, wah"
@RedwolfPrograms You don’t need to be bad at debugging to ask a good question. Sometimes there’s an implementation detail that nesses things, or you want to know how to do something
Yeah, but there's a finite number of those and they're mostly asked already
4:23 AM
Browse r/ProgrammingHumor for an hour and you will lose all faith in the programmer community
None of them know fuck all about posting on SO yet they complain about how "mean" people on SE are ಠ_ಠ
@cairdcoinheringaahing Yup, people love to hate it, just like HTML, PHP, etc
But I just want to be able to copy and paste my problem into stack overflow and have these unpaid people fix it for me, without bothering to check if it's already been done or I'm putting in any effort!
It should be mandatory to spend 5 minutes on the tour page before asking
@user If we think we have it bad for the occasional off-topic question, think about SO :/
4:26 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Luckily the tags I watch (Scala and Haskell) very rarely have closeworthy questions:P
I don;t bother going to SO
Meanwhile, 4 in 5 Jaca questions are farbage
Most of my rep on SO comes from one answer
For most bugs, I can either figure it out myself, or ask people here
This question just had such awful answers that I had no choice but to answer it.
4:28 AM
@RedwolfPrograms I have 670 rep on SO and 170 comes from 1 question :P
@cairdcoinheringaahing But if it hasn’t been asked on SO before, you could potentially help yourself and future teaders by asking on so
Unrelated, I don't like the new(ish) syntax highlighting. The color palette is gross.
@user in 7 years of coding in 4 different languages, I've never had a bug that is completely alien to SO
Also, I have a Famous Question badge from a +17/-0 question ಠ_ಠ
@cairdcoinheringaahing I envy you :P
cries in experimental compiler that crashes arbitrarily
@user If SO tells me that [f(x) for x in y] works to iterate f over y, I can figure out that map does the same
And isn't a thing
4:32 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Fair enough
Rather, it is but isn't isn't too golfy
I got confused because I saw Razetime there lol
@cairdcoinheringaahing Time to ask questions about the esolang and create confusion;)
@NewMainPosts Is anyone else completely confused about this, or have I had one too many pints?
I’m confused too
Do you convert to Batch and then run it too?
4:37 AM
It looks like you just decode it to a Batch program
But don't run it
I'm writing Jelly, so no
@RedwolfPrograms It says Interpreter, though, which is confusing
I’ve suggested to the OP that they use compiker instead
I think transpiler would be more accurate
Seems to be an okay, if boring challenge otherwise
4:41 AM
@RedwolfPrograms I’ve suggested that too, although both would work, ig
@RedwolfPrograms Yup, sorry. I’m on mobile :P
@RedwolfPrograms lmao it was a thing i was learning last year
@cairdcoinheringaahing Jelly on Windows would have no problem. On UNIX systems you can still execute wine cmd.
@RedwolfPrograms you answer a lot of easy questions and get 1-2 votes per answer
And if you're lucky, you get in first and get the tick
Source: my time from when I played SO
Hell, the Enlightened badge basically encourages FGITW
Instead of "clear enough" sandbox comments perhaps you should leave "I can understand the challenge" instead.
4:48 AM
Might as well add a "answer first, downvote everyone else, and VTC the question" badge
@cairdcoinheringaahing I didn't know about that badge and I still tried to have the fast gun
@RedwolfPrograms Un-sportmanship badge.
@user202729 Personally, I believe that Sandbox questions should only be posted to main when they go a certain amount of time (e.g. a week) without any clarification comments, assuming the OP asked for feedback in chat
Regardless of how many upvotes they have
That's a big "assuming".
Yes the issue is that some sandbox challenges end up being unreviewed, so "clear enough" is something.
It is, but it's a correct "assuming" in my view
4:51 AM
If someone make a bot to auto post "please review" comment in chat people will start ignoring it.
@user202729 If people spam too much, they'll be kicked/banned
I'd support a feed which posted challenges with a positive score and <2 comments that were a week old into chat
As long as it doesn't try to catch up on the backlog and post 3000 of them at once
@RedwolfPrograms It's a bit too specific to be a feed, I think a bot (which tend not to post backlog) would be a better fit
4:54 AM
Does anyone here have experience with chat bots?
@RedwolfPrograms Yes
Speaking of granting bots chat access, only one of the ROs (xnor) and 3 (I believe) mods (HN, JoKing and WW) have been in the room in "pinging time"
Maybe it'd be worth appointing a couple of new ROs
@RedwolfPrograms discord, yes
stackoverflow, not at all
I don't think SE chat has an official API, which is annoying
@cairdcoinheringaahing is that supposed to be a link?
4:56 AM
@RedwolfPrograms there's a repo for it somewhere
@RedwolfPrograms Yes
github.com/hippalectryon-0/SE_Bot looks like a good starting point for any bot
there's probably a meta post with a huge tutorial
@Razetime Yeah, I borrowed that for JHTBot
@Razetime that's the one
Gimme a few days and I'd be happy to develop a chat bot which posted week-old Sandbox challenges
I'd need RO/mod approval but that;s the biggest issue (plus 2 upvotes to get enough rep to chat)
5:00 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing just fastest gun a new challenge for this
I definitely think that bot would be helpful
I'll drag up my old code and see what I can do :P
5:28 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Just use your account?
6:08 AM
Q: Denominator of harmonic series

Leaky NunEarlier, we did the pseudofactorial of a number, which is the LCM of the numbers from 1 to n. It would be useful in adding fractions together. However, we find that the denominator of 1/1 + 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/4 + 1/5 + 1/6 is 20 instead of the pseudofactorial of 6, which is 60. Your task is to find...

6:18 AM
@user202729 I dislike giving anyone, even my own bots, access to my own account. For example, if I screw up the code, who knows what a bot with the privileges of a 20k+ user could do
Gotta watch out for import deletealloftheusers
Done that before, it was an awkward conversation with @HyperNeutrino about why his account was deleted :P
6:54 AM
@RedwolfPrograms my favourite python library
Q: Silly Stock Market

geokavelGiven a string with a multiple people's investment data, find out how much profit/loss they recorded. The string only contains capital and lowercase letters, like this: AABaBbba Each letter represents a person - a capital letter means buy, a lowercase letter means sell. The price of the stoc...

@NewlyFeaturedQuestions stonks
Why are "Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, and Google" collectively called FAANG? They should be called "GANAF" which is colloquial Yiddish for "thief".
@Adám well, they use their "Fangs" to sell your data.
Am I really the product at Netflix? It is a paid service!
7:07 AM
@Adám they stick them into the flesh that is your privacy and tear it to shreds.
7:17 AM
@Adám easy to pronounce
2 hours later…
9:44 AM
Q: N-dimensional pyramid numbers

A usernameGiven two inputs, a number n and a dimension d, generate the nth d-dimensional pyramid number. That was confusing, let me try again. For d = 1, the numbers start 1,2,3,4,5 and is the number of points in a line n points long. For d = 2, the numbers start 1,3,6,10,15 and is the number of points in ...

10:33 AM
@EasyasPi you don't happen to have a maths YouTube channel do you?
Because if you do, it is very high quality
And I'm not being sarcastic here
10:58 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing there was a time when I used to do reviews on SE, although it helps that there's more reviews to do, while on PPCG I probably have only seen empty queues if ever.
@cairdcoinheringaahing 44% of my rep on SO comes from a single answer
note that while I apparently have reviewed a suggested edit, it was probably an edit to my answer anyway, for which I would have been explicitly notified
11:29 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing because you finish all the reviews first smh
1 hour later…
12:55 PM
@Lyxal lol no
sorry for the stupid question: all the links in meta appear to have turned orange! why is this?
@rak1507 Could be a recent SE change? Who knows
looks horrible
@JoKing @HyperNeutrino @WheatWizard Is it possible to increase the amount of this bounty to 200?
1:11 PM
At least they definitely can cancel the bounty.
I definitely have more important things to do than reviewing the sandbox.
Something else. About this sandbox post...
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Dannyu NDosSubbasis. Generate. Discrete? Objective Given finitely many finite sets, interpret them as a subbasis to generate a space, and decide whether the resulting topology is discrete. Introduction to Topology Given a set \$X\$, a topology \$\mathcal{T}\$ over \$X\$ is a subset of the power set \$\mathc...

@user202729 No, there's a strict SE principle against that.
While I can understand it, and the math is quite clear (although it takes me a while to understand the union notation (union of all the sets in a set-of-sets)
(you know what I want to say.)
I did get some comments to improve the question there, but there are more people complain about "I don't understand something"
2:09 PM
@Adám no
OK, I'll just bounty something else then.
2 hours later…
3:41 PM
Q: Generating minimal regular expression character classes

Uri GrantaBackground Character classes are a standard way to indicate a set of characters to match in regular expressions. For example, the class [ab] matches a or b, [a-z] matches any lower case letter, and [^a] matches everything but a. For the purpose of this question, classes can contain: a sequence o...

3:54 PM
Crap, there's no golfing language based on Batch / Bash. — 2x-1 yesterday
Now there is! Introducing xsh
1 hour later…
4:59 PM
Q: Shortest quine possible without reading from any files

m33This challenge is to write a quine (program that can output itself) without reading any files. You can have the program be a print or output function containing a string of the program, but the program it outputs must also work under the same criteria. It cannot connect to a website with the code...

5:39 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Alex briesSnail word You know snails, they are sodium slow. And they have great looking shells. So let's decorate them Given a string as input, make a spiral shape from it. Let's define spiral for this challenge: Starting from a point A go one step in a chosen direction (left,right,up,down). And move arou...

5:52 PM
Q: Quine that can modify itself to be more efficient

m33This is a challenge to make a program that has an algorithm to modify itself to have a better algorithm or be more efficient. The algorithm must not have any randomness. The score is (bytes of original code * bytes of output code).

1 hour later…
7:21 PM
Should 4 % -3.5 return 0.5 or -3.0? I've seen both, and I'm not sure which is more useful.
A different example: 7 % -3 being either 1 or -2
it should return 4 :)
On the one hand, the first makes it so that if x % y = r, y * (x / y) + r = x
But the other one makes more sense with examples like clock hands, and is useful for negative array indices
7:45 PM
@RedwolfPrograms ¯3
Yeah, I'll go with the second. So -7 % 3 = 2, 7 % -3 = -2, and -7 % -3 = -1
@RedwolfPrograms In general, if you want well thought-through answers to such mathematical questions, consult APL or J.
8:01 PM
They do have ~50 years of experience with such features :P
Significantly more, I'd say.
I have no idea how to actually implement modulo like that so I just hacked it together in the ugliest way possible
return n1 * n2 < 0 ? -n2 - (n1 - (n2 * Math.trunc(n1 / n2))) : n1 - (n2 * Math.trunc(n1 / n2));
@RedwolfPrograms Hint: Consult the APL docs.
Let me know if you need help understanding that.
8:25 PM
Q: Package distribution

AZTECCOWhile at work I spotted a nice and simple challenge. The job was to stock products in cargo units with a certain capability. Since an order can have various batches, coming in sequence from the production, we usually make a list of the pieces of those batches distributed in each cargo to make sur...

8:38 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

AZTECCOWorldview of a programming language Is the glass half empty or half full? It's a common rethoric question to determine a person worldview, which can be optimistic or pessimistic based on the answer given. Let's try and see if programming languages have a worldview too. Write a full program or a f...

9:16 PM
Q: Program that copies itself and then suddenly deletes itself

m33This challenge is to make a program copy itself to a new file, execute itself and the new file so each program doubles itself, and when there are 2048 copies of itself in existence, all of the files delete themselves, but they only delete themselves, not one program deleting every program. Also, ...

Q: Count all binary relations

Peter KageyA binary relation on a set \$X\$ is simply a subset \$S \subseteq X \times X\$. The number of different relations grows quickly with the size of the set: if \$|X| = n\$, there are \$2^{n^2}\$ binary relations on \$X\$. This challenge will have you computing the number of binary relations subject ...

@RedwolfPrograms JavaScript doesn't have good modulo built-in?
@Lyxal No, it gives wrong results.
@Adám that's what I meant by good modulo
@RedwolfPrograms imagine implementing a golfing lang in a language that doesn't automatically do good modulo. Made by python gang
10:13 PM
@Lyxal yep, that's definitely not me. If you go to my YouTube channel, all you'll find are a bunch of cringey videos from middle school and high school lol. Though, that channel definitely looks interesting, I'll check it out.
10:38 PM
@Lyxal The way python implements has its uses, but so does the way Java, C and other languages implement it.
All languages should have separate mod and rem functions though
It seems the only difference between the two is whether you use trunc or floor
Clearly the proper thing to do is to have them both implemented and to choose randomly whenever the modulo command is called
Or take the average of the two possible results.
That would be much better
@cairdcoinheringaahing I read "Clearly the proper thing to do is to have them both implemented" and thought you were going to say something sensible
10:44 PM
Me? Sensible language design?
Sensible language design ideas from caird in TNB? Never. :p
@cairdcoinheringaahing Which language of yours are you most proud of?
Because the only languages of yours that I've heard of/tried are Whispers and Hatred, and I'm assuming the rest of your languages are easier to use
Hmm, good question. I actually have to think about that
I use Add++ and Whispers the most but I'm not especially proud of them
I'm quite fond of Rutger
Looks like an interesting language

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