The Nineteenth Byte - 2019-10-10

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7:18 AM

0

Q: Russian Caesar cipher

The objective Given a Russian text, encrypt it with Caesar cipher with key 16. The basic Cyrillic alphabets The basic Cyrillic alphabets are: (U+0410 – U+042F) АБВГДЕЖЗИЙКЛМНОПРСТУФХЦЧШЩЪЫЬЭЮЯ By the Caesar cipher, they are mapped to: РСТУФХЦЧШЩЪЫЬЭЮЯАБВГДЕЖЗИЙКЛМНОП The small letters (U...

code-golf string cryptography unicode encryption

8:15 AM

Have we had a "Are these two triangles congruent?" challenge?

Problem: floating points are floating

could be fun with integer or rational coordinates.

Integers would work fine.

I suppose people would use sort(a1, b1, c1) / max(a1, b1, c1) as the algorithm

@JohnDvorak Wouldn't you have to do the sort after the normalisation?

You have to normalize by the corresponding edges

or, you could normalize by the perimeter

Whether you distribute the division over sort in your code is just a notation difference

8:26 AM

@JohnDvorak Hold on, what is max(…)? max(|a₁|,|b₁|,|c₁|)?

Yes. I did mean edge lengths by a1, b1, c1.

or their squares, most likely

@JohnDvorak Oh, for input, I had in mind two point-triplets.

Sure. The answerer would have to calculate those lengths themself, of course.

Sounds fun.

agreed

8:35 AM

@JohnDvorak Should I generalise to any two congruent shapes, maybe even in N-space?

Two polylines are congruent iff all their diagonals are congruent in the correct order up to necklace isomorphism of its vertices.

Yeah, that doesn't ring a bell ⍨

In other words, you can compare all diagonals in the right order, and if all are in the correct ratio, then the two polylines are congruent.

@JohnDvorak That helps, but what is a diagonal?

Any line segment connecting non-adjacent vertices on a polyline.

8:42 AM

Oh, that gets expensive fast.

Nah. Just O(n^2*d)

Wouldn't it alternatively be possible to compare all the angles?

Scratch that. That's for known vertex orders.

Two polylines can be non-congruent even if all their vertex and dihedral angles are congruent in the correct order, even in 2D.

Example: any two rectangles

@JohnDvorak Of course. Stupid me.

In fact, you can pick any two non-adjacent segments on any 2D polyline and get a continuum of non-congruent shapes that have the same vertex angles.

8:49 AM

Right, right.

How hard does it become if we throw in scaling too?

It's just a division by the perimeter.

... or by the longest edge

Then that forces calculation of edge length(s).

You can determine congruence just from computing vertex angles, but you have to include diagonals.

The most natural way to calculate an angle is cos phi = |u x v| / {|u| * |v|}

Heh, going all the way gives the concept a much simpler-sounding name: similarity

Of course, whichever task I post, Mathematica will have a built-in for it.

or sin phi = u . v / {|u| * |v|}

... exchange sin and cos in my previous two statements

9:18 AM

@JohnDvorak How is this for a start?

I don't think the walkthrough is needed

I thought you were going for the general case

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Are my triangles similar? Given the coordinates for two triangles ABC=[[Ax,Ay],[Bx,By],[Cx,Cy]] and PQR=[[Px,Py],[Qx,Qy],[Rx,Ry]], determine if they are similar, that is, they both have the same shape, or one has the same shape as the mirror image of the other. More precisely, one can be obt...

@JohnDvorak I'd like to, but I don't feel qualified.

@JohnDvorak Also, this is easy enough for most languages to handle, and some to stand a chance against Mathematica.

I'd suggest including a rotation that isn't a multiple of 90 degrees in the examples.

Other than that, I think you're ready to go.

@JohnDvorak Yeah, I wanted that too, but it has to be integers (oh, I forgot to state that — will fix), so options are limited.

Oh, no they aren't. I'm stupid.

9:55 AM

@JohnDvorak Any interesting test cases to add before launch?

I've just noticed there are slight errors in the walkthrough

Yeah, I see that.

The second similar test case is incorrect - the first triangle is acute, the second is right

Typo. Both should be fixed now.

In the first dissimilar case, both triangles are right isosceles

New Sandboxed Posts

10:03 AM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Typhoon: Where am I from? code-golfstringclassification Introduction A typhoon is basically a hurricane in the northwestern Pacific region. Unlike hurricanes, typhoons are named by 14 regions, each providing 10 names, adding up to 140 names. The 140 names are used in a cyclic pattern; after the...

@JohnDvorak Will fix, but maybe I should also add some non-right (wrong?) test triangles.

You mean oblique?

@JohnDvorak Yes.

Agreed then

@JohnDvorak Acknowledging my aptitude for mistakes, can I bother you to re-check my examples?

10:12 AM

Looks correct to me now

And no other interesting tests?

A case that rotates an oblique triangle by an oblique angle would be the best.

10:24 AM

@JohnDvorak First test case updated. I hope it is still correct. Doing all this by hand…

👍

11:23 AM

0

Q: Are my triangles similar?

Given the coordinates for two triangles ABC=[[Ax,Ay],[Bx,By],[Cx,Cy]] and PQR=[[Px,Py],[Qx,Qy],[Rx,Ry]], determine if they are similar, that is, they both have the same shape, or one has the same shape as the mirror image of the other. More precisely, one can be obtained from the other by uni...

code-golf math number geometry trigonometry

New Sandboxed Posts

11:45 AM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

How wavy is an array? code-golf A wave of power \$k\$ is an infinite array that looks like \$1,2,\dots,k,k-1,\dots,1,\dots,k,\dots,1,\dots\$, and so on. For example, a wave of power 3 starts with \$1,2,3,2,1,2,3,2,1,...\$, and repeats indefinitely. A wave of power 1 is a infinite array of ones....

12:04 PM

0

Q: Gerrymander North Carolina

The challenge How well can you gerrymander North Carolina into 13 voting districts? In this challenge, you use the following files to draw different maps for Republicans and Democrats. File 1: NC_2016_presidential_election.csv File 2: NC_county_adjacency.csv File 1 gives county-level voting ...

code-challenge graph-theory optimization

2 hours later…

HighlyRadioactive

1:37 PM

Hi there!

I'm TwilightSparkle.

I was forced to change my name.

@HighlyRadioactive How? Why?

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

How often does the word sixty-eight (68) appear in numbers from 1 to 100.000.000 I'm looking for the spoken form, so the word sixty-eight appears in 68.000.000 - once 68.680.000 - once 68.068.068 - three times and so on. The shortest implementation that gives a correct result wins. Output shou...

2:38 PM

@LeakyNun You’re almost 2 years late on that bounty btw

2 hours later…

4:13 PM

Random question for all you: What music have you been listening to recently?

Looking for recommendations

@DJMcMayhem Mendelssohn, Lieder Ohne Worte (Songs Without Words) Op. 19 No. 1

caird coinheringaahing

@DJMcMayhem I can link to a playlist if you'd like :P Mainly EDM/remix though

Sure

caird coinheringaahing

Listening to this on repeat for a few days

@DJMcMayhem Just recently rediscovered this album (IMHO their best)

Newly Featured Questions

4:20 PM

11

Q: Print/Output all positive numbers in which every multi-digit substring in its decimal representation is also prime.

Task Your task is to print or output all positive numbers in which every multi-digit substring in its decimal representation is also prime. If the number has at least 2 digits, this would imply that the number itself also needs to be prime. Example 6197 is in the sequence because every multi-...

code-golf string kolmogorov-complexity sequence primes

4:44 PM

@flawr I don't like his voice a whole lot, but the music is great

5:04 PM

@DJMcMayhem Video game soundtracks -- specifically, Halo 3, Hollow Knight, The Last of Us, Shelter, etc.

The Shelter soundtrack is surprisingly really good background music.

@AdmBorkBork I'm sure you already know my opinion on HK's soundtrack :P

Oh, and I just got the Tomb Raider Suite from the Kickstarter, so that, too.

5:19 PM

room topic changed to The Nineteenth Bar: General discussion about music for PPCG

i like the music from tuxfootball's menu screen :) sound like 8-bit jazz

caird coinheringaahing

@flawr I genuinely thought the room topic had been changed :/

@DJMcMayhem Relaxin with the Miles Davis Quintet is some pretty killer background jazz.

5:38 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing sorry, unfortunately I'm not actually able to do that:)

@FlipTack You're right, it's great

@cairdcoinheringaahing I don't listen to enough techno to really know how to categorize a lot of it. I've been listening to a lot of Porter Robinson recently, would you call that EDM?

caird coinheringaahing

@DJMcMayhem Not sure, it's a bit of a mix IMO

Quite like it tho, thanks for showing me!

Awesome :)

Then you should also check out his song "Shelter". I haven't actually seen the music video yet, but apparently the music video is I guess... An original Anime? idrk, but the song is good

caird coinheringaahing

@DJMcMayhem It's a lot more EDM-ish than the other one you linked to :P

5:57 PM

Now that I'm going down the rabbit hole, I got reminded of this video which is an insane mashup by one of the guys who wrote shelter

El'endia Starman

6:30 PM

Here's a song I've listened to on repeat recently: youtube.com/watch?v=zlcTTKENZ6s

Ooh, very celtic

hi all

@DJMcMayhem and I couldn't get this one out of mind recently: youtube.com/watch?v=W9P_qUnMaFg

@flawr I love the *nation YT channels

@DJMcMayhem Damnation?

:)

Didn't know there were multple

@El'endiaStarman do you know Eluveitie?

6:44 PM

@flawr Reminds me of this one that I was obsessed with a long time ago

El'endia Starman

@flawr I feel like I've seen that name before.

@El'endiaStarman maybe

just with a pinch more metal:)

El'endia Starman

@DJMcMayhem Yeah, and not only is it great for focus, I really like the animation too. Starts off relatively mundane and gets more and more fantastical.

7:05 PM

@flawr oh damn, we're talking Folk Metal bands now?

This is exciting

@flawr This is amazing

I have a new genre to go explore

If you like Eluveitie, I'll definitely recommend Ensiferum, Turisas, Týr, Korpiklaani

They're similar in genre, but the styles vary somewhat so you might not like all of those

For a lighter experience I'd recommend Heilung and Valravn

Can definitely recommend Turisas

Elvenking is also very good.

What do you do for a living?
I'm in a metal band.
Oh really what do you play?
Accordion

7:17 PM

Yep

Also works with fiddle, bodhran, animal bones...

I've seen a tractor used as rhythm percussion.

Banjo?

@AdmBorkBork this?

Possibly - I'll have to check when I'm off work (no Tube of You here)

-128

Q: Official FAQ on gender pronouns and Code of Conduct changes

We expect today’s Code of Conduct changes to generate a lot of questions. We’ve tried to anticipate some of the most common questions people may have here, and we’ll be adding to this list as more questions come up. Q1: What are personal pronouns, and why are they relevant to the Code of Conduct...

discussion faq featured code-of-conduct announcements

7:35 PM

@DJMcMayhem this particular song is in swiss german:)

@DJMcMayhem maybe you'd also like something like falkenbach

caird coinheringaahing

@AdmBorkBork They have the right intentions (I believe), but are going about it all the wrong ways :/

@J.Sallé can only second this:)

@AdmBorkBork I swear this had like 8 upvotes when I saw it!

Yeah, I wish I could see vote counts rather than the stupid limitation arbitrarily imposed because my rep is low.

@AdmBorkBork there are userscripts to remove that restriction

But I am lazy

And I'd rather moan and complain.

New Sandboxed Posts

8:14 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Fewest number of button presses to set the cook time A GolfCo™ microwave oven has a 12-button keypad like this: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [0] [+30] [START] How the microwave operates The microwave reads and processes button presses as follows: Buttons [0]-[9] add t...

-169

Q: Official FAQ on gender pronouns and Code of Conduct changes

We expect today’s changes to the Code of Conduct to generate a lot of questions. We’ve tried to anticipate some of the most common questions people may have here, and we’ll be adding to this list as more questions come up. Q1: What are personal pronouns, and why are they relevant to the Code of ...

discussion faq featured code-of-conduct announcements

Given this new Code of Conduct, which forces people to use speech they wouldn't normally use, I would be all for a referendum on whether to "move" or create an alternative community.

You know, one where we're allowed to respectfully disagree and still participate.

@H.PWiz i've passed your conway's solution for haskell

with better encoding of the polynomial

Oh good. I knew mine wasn't as good as it could be...

@mbomb007 refusing to use someone's pronouns isn't respectful

@mbomb007 i wonder if i could claim to be god-gendered

personal pronouns god/god's, thanks

small g, of course. wouldn't want to offend anyone

8:35 PM

@primo you could not

Are he/her and she/his valid options?

Oh, not here too.

in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 52 mins ago, by Rubiksmoose

Just as an FYI, any variation on the "joke" that goes like "I'm going to change my pronoun to [insert trolly ridiculous word/phrase]" is not cool and not funny. Firstly, you aren't the first or even the 1,000,000,00th person to make that comment. It's so old. More importantly, trans/NB have had to live with that attitude of the general public IRL every day of their lives. It's not a joke and it's not nice.

4

@wizzwizz4 They are not joking or trolling, they are using a devil's advocate argument for there being an official list of choices.

@Adám Oh, phew.

Sorry, @primo.

"1,000,000,00th" I think someone overestimates the popularity of their ideology

8:49 PM

@primo It does feel like a hundred million sometimes.

i suppose at some point, everyone will be referered to as "she", and then it will be a non-issue

@Doorknob I disagree. If I specify my gender, and someone decides to call me "they" anyway, there is no problem with that.

Even if I ask them to say what pronoun I want, like he or she, there is no reason that "they" is not acceptable, and if they want to use my name every time, there is no moral basis for disallowing that. No one should be forced to validate someone else's gender.

@mbomb007 I very much agree with you there.

That is specifically the part of the CoC that I disagree with.

It's there so people don't just go:

9:03 PM

AND it is specifically the part of the policy that Monica objected to and asked questions about, for which she was dismissed.

What if my gender opinion is genuinely that gender doesn't/shouldn't matter? Then my gender preferences are being violated by forcing me to use gendered pronouns when I only feel welcome if I can use them to everyone.

> Adám wrote some really cool code. I liked his code, especially where he had that funny symbol that did half his work for him.
>
> mbomb007 wrote some really cool code. I liked mbomb007's code, especially where mbomb007 had that funny symbol that did half mbomb007's code for mbomb007.

This seems exclusionary, picking one person and treating them differently and awkwardly based on an aspect of their identity they're probably bullied about loads.

It is in fact my genuine (seriously, check my history of being flagged!) opinion that gender shouldn't matter in modern society. I think it (like the concept of marriage) are purely relevant to peoples religious observance (which should also be a private matter). I offends me that I need to fill in my my and my children's gender in various forms.

Gender shouldn't matter – I agree –, but it does matter to people.

If they ask you specifically to use particular pronouns, and aren't okay with gender-neutral language, you should respect that.

> mbomb007 wrote some really cool code. I liked it, especially where it used that funny symbol that did half their work.

9:07 PM

@wizzwizz4 I disagree. Because that forces me to affirm their sexuality/gender, which I may have religious objections to.

@wizzwizz4 I disagree.

@Adám That's fine.

It is part of being in an open and accepting community to allow gender neutral language. /imho

@mbomb007 If I have objections to same-sex marriage, that doesn't mean I can call people "Miss" and "Master" all the time.

@wizzwizz4 No, but you should be allowed to talk around the issue instead of acknowledging it.

9:08 PM

@wizzwizz4 But it does mean that I can use their name in the place of pronouns

@Adám And you can, unless somebody specifically wants you to use particular pronouns.

No. Even if they want me to

They cannot force my speech

@wizzwizz4 And therein lies the issue.

In which case, it's probably okay to say "sorry, I'm not comfortable with that" – an effort was made.

But not according to this CoC

9:09 PM

It depends on the context.

Really‽

In chat, after a lengthy discussion, maybe.

If someone asks me to use a neopronoun, I will refuse.

And/or withdraw

@mbomb007 How will you know if it is a neopronoun?

@mbomb007 That's not allowed, I think.

If it isn't he/she/they it's new

9:11 PM

It depends on context.

Withdrawing is fine for normal users in most cases, except when it's just abruptly blanking someone.

While I don't like the new system, I'm positive it can't work without an official list. They suggested UI enhancements would be extremely useful too.

@wizzwizz4 There's no measure of judging favourably on SE?

@Adám It requires discretion.

The cases the CoC's designed to protect against are clear cut.

@wizzwizz4 It has happened many times to me that I lost WiFi in the middle of a chat conversation.

@Adám Mods can tell the difference, most of the time.

My advice to both of you would just be "do whatever you were already doing, and try to be nice to people".

The CoC is not written for people like you.

I think the spirit of the CoC has been changed so that not only are we required to "be nice", but now we are also required to affirm someone's gender if they ask us to. That's wrong.

9:14 PM

A few people wanted me to run for a diamond in the past election. I'm so happy I didn't. Pour ~~guys~~, eh, whatevers.

@mbomb007 If I ask you to call me "she", I would expect you not to maliciously call me "he" in casual conversation.

This is just formalising that.

@mbomb007 Can I ask you a curiosity question? Not trolling or anything. Genuine.

@wizzwizz4 the problem is it's formalizing much, much more than just that

@Adám sure

@wizzwizz4 That sounds fine, but the means to it is all wrong.

9:16 PM

@wizzwizz4 Plus, if you also said you were trans, then I should be able to ask if I can use they or your name instead, specifically because I don't agree with trans ideology.

@mbomb007 Let's say a true hermaphrodite has no pronoun preference. What pronoun would you use?

@Adám So you mean that they have which chromosomes?

@mbomb007 XXY or XXXY.

And corresponding phenotypes.

I would probably just use they

OK, fair.

9:20 PM

But the genetic sexual ambiguity is a flaw as a result of the Fall, and is not to be celebrated as if it something new and amazing.

In the same way that a scar is evidence of a wound.

Scars are also a mark of pride.

@mbomb007 No no, but we can still be respectful to someone who was born like that, no?

You survived the wound.

@wizzwizz4 But it's still scar tissue and has ill effects on the body

People often take pride in bad things nowadays

@Adám indeed

@mbomb007 Doesn't mean acknowledging the scar is bad.

9:22 PM

@wizzwizz4 Right, but we call it what it is.

Not everybody is strictly male or female.

Whether that's a bad thing or not, that doesn't change what is the case.

Hurting people for something they can't change is bad.

@mbomb007 Actually, this touches upon something I think lies at the core of the matter: Western society is taking a wrong turn on gender. Instead of getting rid of unnecessary public classification, we add more classes.

Indeed. But those who are strictly male or female cannot change that which God gave them.

@mbomb007 True.

Just like those who aren't, can't.

I think we reached common ground

9:23 PM

@mbomb007 Some people claim they can.

@mbomb007 So do I.

All we disagree on is what counts as "strictly male or female".

That doesn't matter though.

This is true.

It doesn't hurt to be nice.

It can, but it can be worth it.

This feels like the sort of conversation that SE would ban people for though

under the new CoC

9:25 PM

Well…

We should probably be taking it to another room.

Agreed. Though we reached a good end.

I was just about to say: What worth is it for us to reach a consensus when it is against SE CoC?

@Adám If the CoC is wrong…

Personally, I just see the CoC as "guidelines for being nice".

@wizzwizz4 By definition it cannot be wrong, can it?

Yes.

If it said "you must call women "he" and men "she" at all times", that would be wrong.

9:26 PM

They specifically changed the guidelines to be more than just "be nice"

Code of Conduct. We are on SE property, so they decide the rules.

@wizzwizz4 Inconvenient, awkward, but not wrong. They are in their right to do so.

@mbomb007 And? Technically, they can say follow these rules or leave. Their problem if that means a smaller audience.

is there a diff of previous CoC & new one? i'd like to see if my main complaints of the FAQ are actually explicitly stated in it

@Adám It goes against the CoC's goals. That's wrong.

If the new changes go against the goals, that's wrong.

The intention behind them isn't wrong, but it's surprisingly difficult to write codes of conduct.

-209

Q: Official FAQ on gender pronouns and Code of Conduct changes

We expect today’s changes to the Code of Conduct to generate a lot of questions. We’ve tried to anticipate some of the most common questions people may have here, and we’ll be adding to this list as more questions come up. Q1: What are personal pronouns, and why are they relevant to the Code of ...

discussion faq featured code-of-conduct announcements

I don't know if there's an actual diff

@wizzwizz4 Lots of national laws go against the stated goals. I personally experienced a slight mistake in the formulation of a law being recognised as obviously not the lawmakers intend, but nevertheless being followed. The consequence was immeasurable amounts of serious child abuse.

9:30 PM

@dzaima If you want to create one, you should use the internet archive

@mbomb007 right, somehow that slipped my mind..

@dzaima If you do, ping me and post it in chat

@wizzwizz4 @Adám Glad we could talk. Maybe in another room if we talk about it another time. Or in discord or something else. I haven't joined the Codegolf Steam or Discord yet, but maybe I should.

Are you both in either of those things?

I'm in neither (I don't even know what those things are.) But yes, thank you for a civilised conversation on such hot topics.

store.steampowered.com/about

discordapp.com

Steam is a gaming platform. Discord is a chat room application.

lazy text copy-paste diff

5

9:35 PM

@mbomb007 Discord says it's for gamers too.

@Adám It was made to fill that role, but nothing about the application itself necessitates that

@mbomb007 It's not really an application, but a platform.

It can be used just like Skype

All the "servers" are really just groups of chatrooms.

Too many communication applications ⍨

9:37 PM

^

Just get Matrix, or uTox. Simple!

Fortunately, the charging one has been solved now that we've all standardized on mini-USB. Or is it micro-USB? Shit.

@dzaima Post that on the CoC FAQ page in bold or something. It would be helpful.

@mbomb007 it seems that this linked blog post actually has all the differences in it

i saw it, but those 2 changed blocks didn't mention any of my main concerns, so thought there should be more..

I think those are the only changes

I think it's more about how SE is going about this that's the problem. I'm all for being nice, but you can look at the previous comments of mine for my objections.

9:41 PM

@dzaima what are your concerns?

Although the impact they have is way bigger than just a few changes in wording, which is very misleading when you first look at it.

If the discussion is going to get long, I recommend creating a new chat room for it.

I use Pidgin (XMPP) for internal work chat. ~~appear.in~~ whereby for internal work meetings. SE chat for work-related chat. Google hangouts with my very closest people (mother, wife, rabbi). SMS mostly with wife, occasional other stuff (on stupidphone, so quite limited. But notice that I only use two applications: Pidgin and my browser.

@dzaima so either the FAQ incorrectly extrapolates stuff from the changes or it mentions other things SE wants that should probably be mentioned in a non-FAQ format

@J.Sallé I concur. Those are the changes moderators saw before it went live.

9:42 PM

@dzaima Why did they remove Be kind and friendly. ‽

@Adám Yeah. My friends use a variety, see the comic above.

@Adám It disappeared during the long revision process.

@mbomb007 ikr.

It evolved into "Be inclusive and respectful" slowly.

I only have Discord because my friends use it. Steam has built-in chat now, but it doesn't work for one of my friends.

9:43 PM

@Adám it was replaced with "Be inclusive and respectful". i definitely like the previous line better though

> Use stated pronouns (when known). When in doubt, don't use language that might offend or alienate.

@Adám Hah, I usually use google hangouts for work-related stuff and Whatsapp for messaging in general (since SMSs are expensive when compared to the internet usage from whatsapp)

Anything and everything might offend.

5

@Adám Good catch. That should be "is likely to".

@Adám I thought that was a really poor choice of words on their part too.

9:44 PM

You should write an answer!

@wizzwizz4 But even then, some people are more likely to take offense than others.

@mbomb007 Ah. Yeah, this is hard, isn't it?

Anyways, I'm going to leave chat now. See you.

Timezone! o/

(I am also leaving.)

Many years ago, I saw a netiquette guideline that included a rule about avoiding saying anything that might offend, and gave an example: — Nice weather today. — What the @#$% do you have against Seattle!

2

9:46 PM

I also liked someone's answer who mentioned that their first language didn't inflect for gender, as a lot of them do. If English is not your first language, even if you speak it for a while and have practice with it, I'd think it's really hard to drop some habits from your primary language

@ngn the FAQ saying that not using specific pronouns (specifically in a non-disrespectful way) is not allowed

Nouns in Portuguese, for instance, are either masculine or feminine. Every noun must be gendered.

Same in French.

And English, to be pedantic.

(To be ultra pedantic, English actually has three grammatical genders, but one was eroded by those who wanted it to be more like French.)

In Hebrew, verbs and adjectives are gendered! (masculine and feminine are the only choices)

@wizzwizz4 yes, but English has the neutral it for nouns

@Adám gendered verbs are not a thing in Portuguese solely because the article turns them immediately into a noun

9:50 PM

If SE-style CoC was enforced in Hebrew (I think Monica asked about that for judaism.SE), communication would break down immediately.

I have no idea what non-binary people do in Israel. I've heard Tel Aviv has a sizeable community.

10:08 PM

@Adám not really related, but I was watching a series with my girlfriend yesterday, and it happened to be Yom Kippur in the episode as well. Hope you had a great holiday, btw.

@J.Sallé Heh, coincidence? I've noticed that US TV episodes that are first aired in December tend to have the series' events happen in the holiday season too. It was great: 26 hours of no food or drink with about 50% of that spent in prayer.

@Adám business idea: open a kosher food stand near the synagoge at the end of yom kippur. charge triple :)

@ngn Interesting prospect, but who would work there on YK?

@Adám non-jews

@ngn kosher

10:19 PM

@Adám non-jews can't sell kosher stuff?

@ngn They can, but a food stand requires supervision by a Jew. Not to mention that food cooked for Jews on YK — even if cooked by a non-Jew and even if not asked for — isn't permitted immediately upon YK's end.

@Adám dang. the ancients have foreseen this would happen :)

@ngn In fact, the pizza stores tend to have supervisors checking that they do not open too early after Passover (when pizza crust becomes permitted again after being forbidden for a week) :-D

just the crust?

@Adám i suspect traditions like these must have had some practical reasons when they started...

10:29 PM

who gets to eat the rest of the pizza?

or if the rest of the pizza isn't forbidden, just cut the crust off?

@Neil Well, anything made with traditional glutinous grains.

@ngn What traditions? The supervision or the prohibition?

@Adám both

@Neil Whoever is the hungriest ;-)

as well as many others which most of us non-judaists consider funny today

@Neil It doesn't quite work like that, as cross-contamination is a thing, and the prohibition is strict.

@ngn The prohibition on sour-dough and leavened products is explicit and unambiguous in the bible. The supervision is simply an aid to abide by the biblical rule.

10:39 PM

@Adám i'd be happy to continue this conversation but i'm afraid it will quickly turn boring for other people reading along

@ngn You can always ping/invite me in a more appropriate room.

11:09 PM

I feel like SE removing "Be kind and respectful" from the CoC is on par with Google changing their motto from "Don't be evil"

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