The Nineteenth Byte - 2018-08-13 (page 1 of 2)

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Erik the Outgolfer

12:01 AM

hm, Ranger (concept, to become StRanger later) and Rrange so far (note: I'm not a judge)

I've created that just for fun. I don't really aim to compete

Erik the Outgolfer

but it's not a competition

as it says on the tin, it's just a challenge, just like the one Conor did ~~about~~ more than a year ago

Oh I thought it was. That's nice, thank you! :)

2 hours later…

1:42 AM

0

Q: Purpose of Sandbox

I know there are a lot of questions like this, but I didn't find any answer that satisfied me. I'm pretty new to PPCG, so not all of my ideas are fantastic (e.g., this failure of a challenge) but I like proposing a lot of question concepts. However, part of the reason my last question (tagged a...

1 hour later…

2:53 AM

good twitter day. these birdcages i got really help the Aging Process.

._.

look i dont feel bad looting that zoo its abandoned anyways

im told this is how 'nethack' works

Have you ever played This War of Mine?

._._.

Hey there! Do you mind checking out my sandbox post? I wanna make sure that this is a reasonable challenge to post or not

I believe its the latest one

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

A Knotty situation Today's challenge will involve some interesting knot theory, and involve you calculating one of the most important objects in all of knot theory. But before that... Background Although there are more technical definitions, for this challenge, it is enough to think of a knot ...

if you're worried about difficulty it's fine

2 hours later…

New Sandboxed Posts

5:01 AM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Expand and Contract code-golf number decimal Take a positive integer \$k\$ as input. Start with \$n := 1\$ and repeatedly increase \$n\$ by the largest integer power of ten \$i\$ such that \$i \le n\$ and \$i + n \le k\$. Repeat until \$n = k\$, returning all intermediate values of \$n\$. Dur...

2 hours later…

6:47 AM

2

Q: Fill up to duplicate ranges

Let \$L\$ be a list of positive integers with no particular ordering, and which can contain duplicates. Write a program or function which outputs a list of positive integers \$M\$ (whose ordering is unimportant) such that merging \$L\$ and \$M\$ results in a list which can entirely split into ide...

code-golf number

^ first challenge after more than a year of nothingness

7:38 AM

@Mayube btw there's a 279 (possibly 278) byte golf for your answer for "watch the bookie win"

8:20 AM

@Fatalize wow

@ASCII-only I saw, but putting it in involves re-writing my explanation again, so I've been putting it off

@LeakyNun Now probably back to another year of no-inspiration :p

1 hour later…

9:48 AM

0

Q: Count Like a Babylonian

Challenge Given an ASCII representation of a Babylonian number as input, output the number in Western Arabic numerals. Babylonian Numeral System How did the Babylonians count? Interestingly, they used a Base 60 system with an element of a Base 10 system. Let's first consider the unit column of...

code-golf number

0

Q: I've been given a task to create a programming that can read input voltages and currents to form a charging curve of a lithium ion battery

I'm a new programmer and the task is to read and store reference voltages and currents for the reference charging curve and then compare them with another set of charging curve to compare the state of health of the battery. Any suggestion? please help

restricted-memory

10:08 AM

Is there a golfier way to coerce a string to an array in js than string.split('')?

[..."stringy"]

Right yeah I remember that one from the last time I forgot about it

on that same note, is there a golfier way to split a string on spaces?

@Mayube string.split` `

wait wtf

I swear, templates are the weirdest shit

does that work for any function that takes 1 string arg?

@Mayube it really passes an array to the function (e.g. try (x=>x)` `)

split just happily stringifies it to a string with 1 space

10:22 AM

huh, interesting

ok last one, is there a golfier way to sum an array than reduce((a,b)=>a+b)?

Kolmogorov-Complexity CMC: [900, 576, 324, 144, 36, 0, 36, 144, 324, 576, 900]

@Mayube eval(array.join`+`)

Try it online!

Awesome, managed to golf a good few bytes off my Babylonian numbers js answer, still pretty hefty at 154 bytes though :/

I guess I'm just bad at js golfing

oof just dropped like 20 bytes because I remembered the map callback can take the index as a 2nd arg

lol

@Mr.Xcoder no idea what am i doing, 18 bytes

@Mr.Xcoder RRange, 14 bytes: [][-30…30|6]»d»*](tinyurl.com/y8awhkd7)

Range, 14 bytes: [-30…30|6]»d»**

Jelly is just so damn powerful... 7 bytes or 7 bytes

10:40 AM

@Mr.Xcoder JS... 42 bytes, [...Array(11).keys()].map(x=>((x-5)*6)**2)

That would be JS REPL

potato potato

Or JS no-repl

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder replace 30 with 5 and m with × to get two 6-byte versions

nice

@Mayube 41: [...Array(11).keys()].map(x=>(x*6-30)**2)

10:45 AM

@Mr.Xcoder touche

@Mr.Xcoder Canvas, 9 bytes. Canvas has a one byte built-in for 11, but not one for square :|

@dzaima ಠ__ಠ

@Mr.Xcoder Python 3 REPL, 30 bytes [i**2for i in range(-30,31,6)]

@Mayube 28: for i in range(-30,31,6):i*i

Clearly I just suck at golfing :P

Erik the Outgolfer

10:54 AM

nah, it's just that you might have not thought about a different output format

I doubt so. Pretty sure you're just rusty due to not golfing in a while

And that ^^

@Mr.Xcoder APL attempt 2, 11 bytes

Erik the Outgolfer

however, you're better off with 2-argument range: for i in range(-5,6):i*i*36

@Mayube How would you solve the CMC in Braingolf?

oh god, who knows

I don't think braingolf even has a range operator

11:01 AM

user image

ಠ_ಠ Stack Exchange (107/100, 53/20)

oh I do, it's just undocmented

@Mr.Xcoder J, 8 bytes *:6*i:_5

K yeah, not currently possible in braingolf because all 3 implementations of loops are broken, and there's no other way to -5 from everything on the stack

@Mr.Xcoder MATL, 8 bytes -6Zvq6*U

@Mayube sad :(

11:07 AM

But hey, here's the first bit

11:37 AM

hey guys, i was thinking about posting a code golf challenge that involves reading a file from the file system, but then i realized that you can't do that in tio.run. should i change my challenge to accept the whole file as input instead, so that it's easier to test?

@Davіd Uh, yes you can read files from the file system on TIO. Try it online!

Oh

I didn't know that

thanks!

Erik the Outgolfer

@Davіd tio.run doesn't define PPCG, if you are sure it's necessary to read a file for the challenge to work, then post (or, better, sandbox) it without worrying too much about tio.run (and yes, as Adám said above, you can read files on TIO's filesystem, but you can't write on them because your program is sandboxed)

@Mr.Xcoder Why did you delete your answer on the Babylonian q?

@EriktheOutgolfer you can write files, they just won't persist trough multiple runs

11:46 AM

@BetaDecay Because I've seen a couple of golfing opportunities and was too lazy to implement them. Basically, it was too long and right now I cannot be bothered to golf it xD

Huh, I just noticed Jonathan Allan's answer which basically implements exactly that.

But I literally didn't feel like editing my answer ;P

@Davіd I'm not sure what challenge it is that reading from file is important. If it's not important consider removing it -- flexible I/O format. Anyway, sandbox first.

@user202729 Ok, thanks

@user202729 challenges tagged "file-system"

12:01 PM

@Mr.Xcoder Oh wow hahaha

12:26 PM

@Mr.Xcoder 9 bytes *:i:30j10

Assume that's J?

of course

I just noticed the 8 byte by Adam

the _ does nothing

so it's a tie w/jelly

Erik the Outgolfer

no

2 hours ago, by Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder replace 30 with 5 and m with × to get two 6-byte versions

just did it

yep

12:53 PM

@NewMainPosts can everyone please just go to the main page and look for a second before posting

@Downgoat what question

@ASCII-only nah, that's too much effort

@Mayube makes sense

(on a more serious note, isn't writing the post so much more effort lol)

Well they're going to write the post anyway, just if they look first they'll post it on SO instead

@Mayube bew for your babylonian, for loops are shorter: link but i guess it goes against your functional approach

meh, I'm not too concerned about that answer anymore anyway, given arnauld's answer is a much more interesting approach

1:07 PM

@Mayube well i'd say more surprising than interesting

unique

Thinking about Erik's "range" LDC, I might make one based on the idea of mountain ranges

also ahahaha basically everything is a port of Arnauld's answer

@Mayube O_o please elaborate

@Mayube :| still.

@ASCII-only Except for those in esoteric languages

Speaking about esoteric languages, I think I can answer that in Triangularity!

Is there a stackexchange chat app? We need an app

@Mayube nope. some people were working on it but i think they abandoned it

1:19 PM

There isn't and I don't think any will exist

clearly we just need a language that makes doing everything easy

A builtin for everything

not exactly, but basically, yes

Jelly++

i mean seriously you should only need 5 lines instead of 5k lines and 50k generated lines to do simple things

1:20 PM

Define simple

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Art Attack KoTH king-of-the-hill javascript Challenge Try to fill the canvas with as much paint as possible. Controller The controller can be found here: https://gist.github.com/beta-decay/10f026b15c3babd63c004db1f937eb14 Or you can run it here: https://beta-decay.github.io/art_attack Win...

Man, BD really likes his koths lately

@BetaDecay I see you have a lot of inspiration after having been inactive for a while! Can I borrow some from you? :P

@Mayube making an app that's just a webview for example :P

That's really simple in Swift

1:21 PM

well actually a chat app would probably need to improve the interface

so like maybe 200 lines max, most of which is view markup would be ideal

Yeah, otherwise we can just use mobile browsers, like I am currently

i'm thinking a more ideal language would be macro(like #define)-focused

@Mayube Yeah, they're great fun

like how lips do it - they'd be like functions but with zero runtime overhead, meaning you don't have to worry about the stack

Was it you who did the bookie koth? I really enjoyed the collaborative effort to golf my js answer on that one. Feels almost like I should cw the answer at this point :P

1:25 PM

I did the Stock Exchange one

Ooh yeah

That was a really good one too

We've had 3 decent koths in the past week

I was working on a controller for a crazy koth idea I had, but I sort of dropped it because I was worried it'd be too complex for the koth format

I have a KoTH idea too now: Cluedo

Mine was like.. Almost a stripped down starcraft

Texas Hold 'Em poker would be pretty cool

Roulette? Or is that too random?

I'd love to make a koth that's like a stripped down mmorpg, but it'd definitely be far too complex for a ppcg koth

The best koths are turnbased and allow a single action from a limited set per turn

@ASCII-only ok so, the language is based around creating "mountains" (in ASCII art, using slashes), and the operation that indicates is determined by the space (measured in number of char-spaces) beneath the mountain

1:49 PM

@Mayube eh, can't be not complex than formic functions :P

I uh.. don't know what formic functions are

@Mayube is that even a koth

I dropped out of college and you guys use fancy terms a lot x_x

98

Q: Formic Functions - Ant Queen of the Hill Contest

Watch live | Active answers | Add new answer | Chat room | Source code | Leaderboard New tournaments whenever needed. New players and new updates very welcome. Not actual game footage. Each player starts with one ant - a queen, who collects food. Each piece of food can be held or used to pro...

grid game king-of-the-hill javascript

@ASCII-only oh yeah it wasn't xD, it was more a kolmog challenge

@dzaima oh crap I remember that one, it was a little complex, but was also super cool

1:50 PM

@Mayube Feel free to take it

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

American Roulette code-challenge Roulette is one of the simplest casino games to understand, so I invite you all to see who gets the most money. Coding You will be supplied with a singe argument via the command line. This argument will be the amount of money you have. [command to run your co...

@Mayube yeah it's down to 265 now lol

Only problem:

> This is not a king-of-the-hill challenge, due to the lack of interaction.

yeah, there's no direct interaction between players, it's purely down to who gets luckiest

also holy crap, looking at some of the formic functions answers, people went crazy with it

to the point where people had frameworks that they used across multiple answers to handle low-level interaction so they could handle the high-level AI

jesus

Sounds like what ants do in real life

I feel like if a KotH gets as complex as Formic Functions though, it needs some way to visualize the testing, like FF did with the in-browser controller

2:01 PM

@Mayube the challenge managed complexity almost perfectly. Though really at the end all the frameworks were fancy pattern-matchers, it just really mattered how you structured everything together

After playing with Gold Collectors, I now think all KotH competitions need a graphical interface to play about with

Otherwise contestants are just stabbing in the dark and can't truly analyse what's going on in the comptetition

@BetaDecay I'm not sure about all KotHs. Stock Exchange didn't need one. IMO it didn't even need the graph at the end, that was just a nice bit of fluff. Didn't really help with testing individual bots

Although admittedly I did modify my copy of the controller to spit out additional info about the bots each turn, not graphical though

I suppose it's the same thing. Just that graphical is more accessible and understandable (unless you wrote it yourself)

Plus, graphical KoTH controllers are fun to watch

1

Q: A Knotty situation

Today's challenge will involve some interesting knot theory, and involve you calculating one of the most important objects in all of knot theory. But before that... Background Although there are more technical definitions, for this challenge, it is enough to think of a knot as something made ph...

code-golf knot-theory

@NewMainPosts oof, that's a hefty challenge right there

2:08 PM

katlas.org/wiki/The_Mathematica_Package_KnotTheory%60

2:54 PM

> Thankfully, APL can be treated relatively easily, and chances are patients will survive. source

@Adám So you're an Acute Promyelocytic Leukaemia developer? I'm not sure I'd want to develop that

@Mayube On the way to "the Dyalog house" you usually pass this sign.

hahaha

World's heaviest APL?

user image

I think there's a trucking company near my office called "Advanced Practical Logistics"

which, btw, is such a buzzwordy name

Your logistics are both advanced and practical?

3:08 PM

Theoretical business names: Domestic Services Intl.

They should totally paint the ship APL Aloha with ⎕←'ALOHA'

I assume ⎕← is basically "print" or "push to STDOUT"?

CMQ: I'm making an esoteric language about building mountains using ASCII art (slashes). The size of the mountain determines the operation. What should I call the language?

What sort of Operations will it have?

A Brainfuck Esque Language will need a different name than a C like one.

@Mayube Does it have any relation to Brainfuck?

How about Norgay

3:23 PM

If it is a Brainfuck Spawn, than BrainFuji would have to be My Vote.

@BetaDecay no, I want to avoid making it a generic tarpit, it'll have a moderate amount of operations, nothing too extreme (maybe 15 or 20 ish?)

BrainFuji is good for a Brainfuck spawn though

What's the Memory Structure?

@Mayube Yes. Output is usually implicit, but if you want to do it implicitly. Mnemonic for "put in the box".

stack

@Mayube sum it

3:25 PM

oof

good one

I think maybe Sum it wins

What does the language do other than mountain stuff, by the way?

what d'you mean?

Is Memory a Tape, Stacks, Dictionary, States?

like I said before, it's a stack

My Bad,

A Single Stack isn't Turing Complete, by the way. Unless you have operators to get around that.

3:29 PM

which, while not intentional, could hint at the fact that mountains are a stack of rocks ;)

@Mayube You did?

huh it seems chat may have bugged out. I sent the message, and I see it, but it's green and isn't showing as an actual message

A Cheap Solution to the Turing Complete Problem is to just have Two Stacks, like BrainFlak

(Or Three, depending on who you ask)

But I definitely sent it

Braingolf only had one stack for a long time, and I'm somewhat sure it was maybe turing complete

oh right is being able to rotate the stack an important factor?

You could do that in braingolf :P

(ie move the top item to the bottom and vice versa)

Rotating the Stack may be enough to ensure it's Turing Complete.

3:31 PM

user image

But at that point it's basically a Tape.

A Tape you can insert into.

and pop from

I guess you could call it uuh... stacky tape

Sadly the name MounTape wouldn't apply

let's coin the term Tain, it's a memory structure that has properties of both a tape and a stack

Two stacks can act as a TapeStack anyway.

3:33 PM

@Mayube Noo stacky tape is great

I'm glad you appreciate my puns beta <3

Stacky Tape is a fantastic name.

I'm not gunna call the language that, but I'm happy to refer to what is basically a rotatable stack as stacky tape

StackyTape would be a nice language on it's own

"Sum it is a mountain-themed esoteric language that employs the use of a stacky tape, a memory structure that has properties of both a stack and a tape"

3:34 PM

Even if it was just Brainfuck with Insert and Pop instructions.

Perhaps Sum-It would be an easier to read name.

Hello World in Sum-it is 8 bytes

My concern is Climbing

good catch

 /\
/  \

Built In, I assume?

that's hello world in Sum-it. It's a single mountain with 2 spaces beneath it. 2 is the built-in for "Hello, World!"

or actually

screw hello world builtins

3:37 PM

I agree.

Could you have trenches/canyons?

@BetaDecay how do you mean?

Perhaps consider the length of both the Rise and Fall to determine the Operator

Perhaps "Rise 2, Fall 8" could push the constant number 8.

Ctrl+K

no the size is determined by the number of characters underneath the mountain

 /\
/  \
    \
     \
      \

3:38 PM

so for example

  /\
 /  \
/    \

that is a 6-size mountain

Does that mean a mountain's rise is always the same as it's fall?

No, because of course, mountains can overlap, and when they do, the right mountain takes precidence

so

    /\
 /\/  \
/      \

that is a 1-size mountain followed by a 6-size

that is effectively parsed as

    /\
 /\/  \
/ /    \

But that would be equal to

      /\
 /\  /  \
/  \/    \

Not a bad thing, sure, if that's what you want.

no, the right mountain basically "steals" that part of the left mountain, making the left mountain smaller. Otherwise every mountain's size would be sum(1...h-1)*2, where h is the height of the mountain

So Mountain 1 has a height of 2 but a width of 1.

3:43 PM

Well the height and width are irrelevant really, what the parser cares about is the number of characters under that mountain's surface, which for the left mountain in my example there is 1, due to the right precidence in overlaps

So would it be equal to

    /\
   /  \
/\/    \

No

because in that instance the left mountain has a size of 0

Oh, you need Overlapping to get an Odd Number

correct

    /\
 /\/@@\
/#/@@@@\

that's how it counts the size

That would be, interesting

3:46 PM

this also allows overlapped mountains to act as sort of "modifiers"

This sounds like it needs to be Tacit for no reason.

Tacit?

Functions that take functions as arguments to do everything.

So for i=1, 10 do print(i) end would actually be for(1,10,print) Or something like that.

Jelly is Famously Tacit

I'm gonna try this LDC

Because I already have code built to write languages with.

Ironically, you could enter this language, because it's a Mountain Range

That's exactly why I'm making this language :P

Y'know, it always upsets me a little when I'm talking about a cool new esoteric language to my programmer friends and their response is "why would anyone make something that dumb though" like come on sure it's not practical as a language but that's the point, lighten up a little

4:04 PM

Nothing is dumb when it comes to Esoteric Languages.

I mean I think the problem is that they find the very idea of EsoLangs dumb

Sometimes it's impractical, but that's not a bad thing if you don't care.

I see programming as a creative process. Sure it's more logic-based than other creative processes, but it's still a creative process. Problem solving is inherently creative, and that's basically all programming is.

That's why I like esoteric languages, they play on that creativity, they extend the creativity of programming from just the process, to the tools themselves

who cares if they're not practical? That's not the point! Heck one of my favourite esolangs that I made is basically unusable for anything that isn't incredibly trivial. I doubt you could even do Hello World in it

Programming is Art, and art is created for the self. Others are meant only to look on critique, but not dissuade.

/rant

Although I have to admit, I've noticed that most of my programming friends who thing esolangs are dumb are the same people who seem to hate every language they don't use.You know how many times I get "jokingly" told to commit suicide by some of my edgier programming friends just for using Node.js?

4:11 PM

@Pavel sometimes you just have to ignore amy

I suppose it's a trait endemic of people who are closed-minded to alternative points of view

cuz she's kinda weird and she does this for attention

That sounds like bad company.

@ATaco eh, sometimes I'm just as edgy around them

so I think its' best we both back out of the conversation @Pavel

4:11 PM

Yeah

Anyway, I need to make my own Range-Based Programming language

so uh i'm gonna go read reddit

Also, how angry K2 is right now is terrifying me and the anger isn't even directed at me

But thinking of a core concept that is Turing Complete, that's difficulty.

@Pavel oh absolutely

this is "you get muted and banned from the IRC and your variant is removed" level anger

4:15 PM

@ATaco Promise me you won't just make a turing tarpit

I'm much more interesting than that

thank you

Checkout my Github, I've got languages like TacO, Threeead, Funky, RProgN, ReRegex.

I think that's like all of them

I'm familiar with Funky

because you were making that around the same time I came up with the idea for Funcsational

Potentially

I've got a second edition of Funky now, but it's fairly incomplete

(Atleast it does Operator Precedence correctly)

4:17 PM

I think really Braingolf is the only remotely successful language I ever made, and it was also my first language

Nobody's ever used LMBM to my knowledge, nobody can use brainflump

and I uh.. never finished the others

Most of my languages remain unused by all but me

Occasionally RProgN is used for it's unique IO ordering

to be fair I might've forgotten to put LMBM on tio

I think you did

Oh yeah, ARBLE exists, but it's not really a language.

It's an Extension

@Mayube Yeah you did, it looks pretty cool though

4:27 PM

@Pavel I enjoyed making it, it was my first foray into 2d languages, and I happened to find a convenient challenge for it shortly afterwards. I'll look into getting it on TIO at some point

Dennis is usually keen to throw most languages onto TIO, especially if they're made by the community.

I know, Braingolf and brainflump are both on there. Dennis is a real standup guy, and from what I've seen has been more than happy to throw any working language on there, I just haven't got around to asking him :P

I might see about getting Rockstar on there too, but it depends which implementation would be best to put on

He was keen to throw on a few of my non-working ones before I got them working :P

Try It Online has a Patreon and donation links if you want to support his awesome service.

I knew it had a donation link, didn't know there was a patreon

It's not listed anywhere

4:31 PM

I use it all the damn time, definitely gunna go support him

patreon.com/user/posts?u=3784253

IIRC Dyalog APL offered a yearly donation to support the service.

500$/yr

Any ideas for the Range challenge Pavel?

@ATaco I have a name figured out, that's as far as I got >.>

4:43 PM

I've got a few options, but nothing Turing Complete.

5:02 PM

Sorry for stealing the mountain range idea so early :P

@ATaco I do not. I'm pretty bad at this whole "creativity" thing

5:14 PM

I think @Mr.Xcoder has already made (or is at least already aware of) a language simply called "Range", which focuses around ranges in the conventional sense. He demonstrated it in a simple CMC posted earlier

So we have the most literal, straight-forward interpretation of "a language based around the concept of "Range", and we have the most abstract, non-literal interpretation. I guess now we need some in-betweens

that or something even more abstract and removed than "Mountain Ranges"

Maybe something to do with range as a measurement of distance? (IE a ranged weapon has a "range")

@Mayube Kind of, it's called RRange ;)

Or something to do with the stereotypical fantasy RPG class "Ranger"

@Mr.Xcoder Did you make it? And was it made for Erik's LDC?

TIL: less <dir> is equivalent to ls -la <dir> | less

@Mayube Yes and yes

oh also @ATaco, nowhere in the LDC rules does it say the language must be turing complete ;)

5:16 PM

However it has very few functions. I can add them at will though

It's not good for golfing though

I mean, it's better than Sum-it

Hmm, all logic gates ultimately boil down to OR and NOT, right?

@ATaco is it just me or have you been gone for a while? if so welcome back!

5:38 PM

0

Q: Chaining words algorithm

I am trying to reach an efficient algorithm for this problem: Given some words (+10.000), look for a chain which include all of them and the last character (a-z) of one word is the first from its successor. (The same for the first and last words) Example: duck dad king garold We have the chain: ...

graph-theory word-puzzle algorithm

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The Nineteenth Byte

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