The Nineteenth Byte

when it drops to 0, it means that modifications such as a[i]:b or a+:b (I'll use k as an example) can reuse the already allocated memory without deep copying

user202729

@ASCII-only How is inf depth possible... symbolic?

ngn

in Dyalog it works the same way except that their namespaces (i.e. dictionaries) don't get copied on modification

ASCII-only

@user202729 *arbitrary depth. and kinda (through circular references)

ngn

@user202729 it's observable if you care about performance

ASCII-only

@user202729 ah. that's true

ATaco

12:52 PM

CMC: Make a Smart Teapot. if the input is "Tea", return 200. If the input is "Coffee", return 418. Anything else, Return 502.

ASCII-only

@ATaco why 200

ATaco

Operation completed successfully.

ASCII-only

@ATaco well this is a boring cmc :/

ATaco

I never said it was good.

ASCII-only

@ATaco JS, s=>({Tea:200,Coffee:418})[s]||502

ATaco

12:57 PM

You can save a whole 2 bytes by using Funky.

Funky, 31 bytes s=>{Tea=200,Coffee=418}[s]||502

ASCII-only

3?

@ATaco but funky has no standalone code blocks, so clearly JS is superior

ATaco

What do you mean by standalone code blocks?

ASCII-only

{foo(); bar();}

Charcoal, 21 bytes: ≡θTea²⁰⁰Coffee⁴¹⁸¦⁵⁰²

20 bytes if returning a string for one of them is allowed

ATaco

That seems like a horrifying concept.

What is the purpose of these code blocks?

ASCII-only

@ATaco lexical scope mostly

ATaco

1:02 PM

Actually, it's probably used alongside things like if(a){foo();}

I'd legit need to add like, 7 bytes to Funky in order to allow Standalone code blocks

New Main Posts

0

Q: Find what is in the picture... Would you solve it?

Hint : Elmer Your mission is : try to solve and say what is in the picture and how you solved it

code-challenge

ASCII-only

@NewMainPosts wat.

ATaco

I think it should be on Puzzling.

But it kind of looks like a Piet or similar script

Adám

@ATaco APL (Dyalog Unicode), 29 bytes 200 418 502⊃⍨'Tea' 'Coffee'⍳⊂

Fatalize

Question to native English speakers: which of "monolithicity" or "monolithicness" is more common/sounds better to you?

Adám

1:20 PM

@Fatalize IANANES, but what's wrong with being monolithic?

Fatalize

I need to title a section "Non-monolithicity"

can't really fit "being" in a title

ASCII-only

@Fatalize former

Adám

@Fatalize "Not monolithic" or "Isn't monolithic".

Fatalize

@Adám …I can't use those as titles, that sounds weird

ASCII-only

@Adám That doesn't sound like it belongs in a title either IMO

Fatalize

1:22 PM

@ASCII-only Ok thanks

ASCII-only

the latter isn't a word

Adám

@Fatalize "Modularity", "Module-based", "Microkernel-based"…

ASCII-only

@Adám 1. that's probably not the only meaning of monolithic 2. modularity isn't an exact antonym

Mayube

oh no, I made a new language

ASCII-only

:|

Mayube

1:25 PM

f( {print} "Screw you ASCII-only :D" )

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Most times a loop Given an array of length n, each two element of which are different, rearrange it in a same method of swapping (the destination is only effected by the source place, not the value, e.g. [a1, a2, a3] => [a3, a1, a2]) till it's the same as original. How many times it swap at most...

ASCII-only

@Mayube does this actually work

Adám

At Dyalog we're worried about about glyph proliferation. In TNB we're worried about language proliferation.

ATaco

I can make this work in Funky.

Mayube

@ASCII-only yes, but it can only print, I'm still working on.. y'know, anything useful

ASCII-only

1:28 PM

lol

Mayube

I can't help it

ASCII-only

that's basically me with the QBasic interpreter before I gave up

Fatalize

@Adám You're worried about glyph proliferation in APL? Even though there are a lot of APL-specific glyphs?

ATaco

Funky, 38 bytes f( {print} "Screw you ASCII-only :D" )

(I need to fix that)

Mayube

@ATaco that's funky ;)

ATaco

1:31 PM

What does the f() do in this language?

Mayube

everything has to be in "functions", f() is the entry-point function

if you don't actually define any functions, all of your code gets thrown in f(), so {print} "Screw you ASCII-only :D" would work too

ASCII-only

@Mayube this sounds really hacky for some reason

like how in js everything is an object

Mayube

{} is a function call, print is a builtin function

@ASCII-only which I abuse rigorously

ATaco

Why does the arguments come after {}, is it only ever one argument?

Mayube

nah, {} just grabs however many args it needs from the next X statements

ASCII-only

1:34 PM

@Mayube how do you abuse

@Mayube is there no multi-arg print :/

Mayube

{print} needs 1 arg, so it uses the next statement

ATaco

That sound heavily Abusable. I like it.

Mayube

Your own defined functions always have 0 arg count though, and any defined variables are defined int he global scope

so arguments are only actually used for bultins

ATaco

You should check out Funky! It's terrible! But if you can write JS, you can basically write this.

Mayube

@ASCII-only no cos there's no way to tell print how many args to take

ASCII-only

1:36 PM

@Mayube :|

ATaco

This is a good example of it being both those things.

Mayube

@ASCII-only I couldn't come up with a clean way to define arg counts so I didn't bother

ATaco

In uh, in most languages we put brackets around them.

ASCII-only

@Mayube it's called having an arglist

Mayube

bleh

ATaco

1:38 PM

You could probably also shove it in your {}

So you'd have Lisp style calls.

f( {print "Hello, World!"} )

Mayube

eh, I kinda like the naivety of the symbol parser

it starts with 1 char, then it keeps adding chars until the symbol parser says "yup this is a symbol"

ATaco

Oh my word.

That's slightly worse than Funky's

Mayube

which for function calls is when it starts with { and ends with }, then everything inside is the function name

ATaco

Alternatively: What happens if I do: f( {print} {some_func} )

Mayube

good question, let's try

ATaco

1:40 PM

(Can functions return?)

Mayube

it prints undefined

ASCII-only

@Mayube :| this sounds super slow

@Mayube :|

Mayube

oh right yeah cos it'll pass the function object as an argument, but the print builtin will try to find the value property

functions don't have a value

ASCII-only

@ATaco :/ a-ta.co is still down

ATaco

Found a bug.

@ASCII-only I am still broke.

ASCII-only

1:41 PM

how much could it cost though

ATaco

Like, 20 a month.

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Finite Group Synonyms code-golfdecision-problem Task Given a finite group represented by a finite non-empty array of natural numbers and a black-box-function as its operation, write a program in a language of your choice with a minimal byte count which decides whether or not there exist equa...

ATaco

But I have now lost the code, so I'll need to write a lot (I think all) of it again.

Mayube

@ASCII-only of course it is, speed is overrated

ASCII-only

@ATaco ...

what kind of crappy hosting is this

@ATaco what kind of ~~overpricing~~ ripoff is this

ATaco

1:42 PM

It's a VPS.

@Mayube {print} "abc\\" does not parse.

ASCII-only

@ATaco :/

ATaco

A $20 VPS isn't a ripoff.

Dennis

DigitalOcean VPS starts at 5 dollars per month, which was enough for TIO v1.

ATaco

Probably a good time to change host anyway.

Now that i have to start from scratch.

Even better, I can stop using some terrible practices I was using.

Mayube

@ATaco oi, you stop that

Dennis

1:44 PM

Do you have a DO account? If not, this would be a good time to use TIO's referral link. ;)

ASCII-only

and IIRC current TIO costs $45/month. which is basically double that of a-ta.co's

ATaco

I do not have an account and would be happy to support TIO any way I can.

ASCII-only

which is pretty amazing(ly low) considering what i use TIO for >_> let alone everyone else

ATaco

TIO is an incredibly useful tool that I keep coming back to.

When I want to test a bit of code or whatever without launching my setups

ASCII-only

i can't even imagine the amount of processing power TIO uses every month

Mayube

1:45 PM

oh yeah the main reason I didn't do arglists on functions is because the parser uses regex to find all the functionsin the code :D

Anonymous

I showed TIO to the interns at work, and they absolutely love it

Dennis

:)

@ATaco m.do.co/c/1d18c043cf56

ATaco

I believe Adám did a speech on it for APL

Mayube

yeah I use it a ton for little things at work like "Hey how does this php function handle this?"

ASCII-only

@Mayube ...

.........................

Mayube

1:46 PM

@ASCII-only I knew you'd like that

ATaco

Apparently I do already have an account.

ASCII-only

@Mayube yes. this especially

ATaco

@ASCII-only Funky's parser is entirely Regex.

Dennis

Ah, like Jelly's.

ATaco

Good news, I can still use your referral

ASCII-only

1:47 PM

@ATaco that's fine for tokens. if you mean you have a regex that matches the entire program then i'd have to see that to believe it

ATaco

@ASCII-only Alas, It's only tokens. Sequentially tries to grab the next token based on context.

Mayube

Funcsational uses /[a-zA-Z-_]+$(.|[\r\n])*?$/gm to find a list of functions in the source

if none are found it throws everything in f()

Adám

@Fatalize K is limited to printable non-alphanumeric ASCII. J is limited to those plus all printable ASCII followed by . or :. APL is limited to things that can be typed on a keyboard with two additional shift states per key.

ASCII-only

Jun 8 at 9:21, by ASCII-only

:::::::OOOOOOOOOOOOOO
https://tio.run/##7T3tcts4kr/tp0CUHevDkj@S7M6sZDtlx3LGVY6ctZydmY0zKlqibF4kUkdSsb1Z/7ln2J/3dPsgN9fdAAiABCnJsSa5uq1UxRSIbjTQje5GA2j2J5PGVb//229PPb8/mg5ctuMFURy6znhvVS8bO7430YvGjvEzip3@R73gMgA8myP31us7o17fieKN68kkW2MaeyMvvtuERj3/qhe6Q3s9Z3QVhF58PRY1NwGl2@sH/id7fdmNaBPq9N1JHM2qx//2LqfDoRvKysOBO2Q/HXcOT3/qarA/ef4guAGUUMf1B95w9enUx6qddycnq0/hyfNd9u5t5bbKonjQbHKiK9RmsxkHvelk4oZA/@RuR6uwV9Fr31ar1dXVzU12fnp42mSXTuT1GXQHBtuP2TAYDaAWq0RBGN7VmR/EjB6rCmQQsGMG3RqN7pjvugMWB2waufB885IBjQMWTGPm@Sy@xsLbmLkTLwqgi8GQDULnKvCh2dFIYRx6t1B/4PXdqM7caLKB0O7tJFRVojs/dm6ZG4ZBKN6ql@3OIdsZBsEem15dr…

Dennis

@ATaco Although you already have an account? o_O

ATaco

1:49 PM

I never added a card, so it wasn't finalized.

Referral done, whatever that gives to TIO.

I know it just gave me a free $10 credit, which is awesome.

Mayube

@ATaco challenge: Make a Funcsational parser in Funky :D

ATaco

You know Funky is closely related to JS right?

ASCII-only

@ATaco i just realized i forgot backslashes need to be escaped >_> i'm very smart

Dennis

At this point, nothing. But as soon as you spend the minimum amount on their products, I'll get $25 in DO credit.

ATaco

I can copy paste most of this.

ASCII-only

1:51 PM

@Mayube why did you make funcsational in the first place >_>

ATaco

Nawww, No Aus Hosts.

ASCII-only

also how to have multiple statements in a function

Mayube

@ASCII-only cos I was bored

@ASCII-only you just put multiple in the function

ASCII-only

how do you separate statements

dzaima

@ASCII-only you don't

Mayube

1:56 PM

you don't need to

statements know how big they need to be

ASCII-only

ah

:| no varargs

this seems really disappointing

ATaco

Do you have a list datatype?

Taking input as lists is an acceptable replacement

If you're feeling really rebellious, add , as a joining operator.

So then you could do {print} "Hello,", "World"

ASCII-only

@ATaco ~~this is what i do~~

ATaco

Jelly has a similar function

Mayube

@ASCII-only I'll make it better, don't worry

I'll add arguments, and statement terminators, and all the other good stuff

ATaco

2:00 PM

Good news, I have a webhost for a couple of months.

By then I should have an income.

ASCII-only

@ATaco :D

@Mayube and then there's me: i still need to add builtins for operator and precedence before i can even think about adding even basic arithmetic operators

rip

ATaco

I'll spend some time setting up some features.

Like re-creating I am Typing and CMC back-ends.

Mayube

@ASCII-only how's f(arg, list)(function contents)?

ATaco

Tacoscripts are also all backed up on Github

Mayube

@ATaco nope!

ASCII-only

2:02 PM

@Mayube looks fine. except that looks really different from how it currently is :P

Mayube

@ASCII-only well it's currently just f(function contents)

not sure how else I could define the arg lists tbh

ATaco

f( (arg, list) foo(); )

ASCII-only

@Mayube ~~more syntax~~

ATaco

f=(arg, list)({foo}) bar({baz})

ASCII-only

@ATaco what?

@ATaco so this is a definition for f and a call of bar?

ATaco

2:04 PM

I'm just offering random syntax formats.

= would entirely be fluff

Perhaps f $(arg, list) ({foo}) bar({baz})would look better.

(I forgot the function calling syntax)

Oh wow, I will have even lost the blog.

It really just clicked that i should back up more.

Pavel

2:27 PM

TeX accounts for nearly 10% of all packages on my system.

$ (dnf list | grep ^tex | wc --lines) / (dnf list | wc --lines) 2>/dev/null
0.0937685274752707

I don't think I've ever used TeX on this machine.

ASCII-only

@Pavel :|

@Pavel not even LaTeX?

Pavel

Nope

Dennis

@Pavel Same thing on TIO. TeX is very modular and everything is its own package.

There's grep -c btw. No need to pipe to wc -l.

Pavel

oh neat

Mayube

@ASCII-only I'll do it like this I guess

I'm keeping the lazy argument grabbing because, as taco pointed out, it sounds entertainingly abusable

ASCII-only

2:33 PM

@Mayube :||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Mayube

look, it's an esoteric language, it's not supposed to be the next python/lisp/js

ATaco

I have no idea how to setup SFTP on the server.

Dennis

SFTP is SSH. It's already set up.

Pavel

What's the difference between SFTP and SSHFS?

Mayube

SFTP is just FTP over SSH, SSHFS actually creates a networked symlink over SSH

ATaco

2:36 PM

Although SFTP is supposedly setup, I'm unable to connect.

Dennis

sshfs is a virtual filesystem. It uses SFTP to communicate with the remote host.

ATaco

Nevermind, it randomly worked.

Dennis

@Mayube No, SFTP and FTP are unrelated protocols.

Poke

might be thinking of ftps

lulz

it's a little humorous and a little sad that there's sftp, ftps, ftpes, and others

ATaco

And ftp.

Poke

2:39 PM

yes

Dennis

Let's not forget about SFTP, the Simple File Transfer Protocol.

Not to be confused with SFTP, the SSH File Transfer Protocol.

Poke

:D

Erik the Outgolfer

gah, acronymized acronyms

Dennis

And FTP over SSH is, of course, also a thing.

Mayube

don't forget FTPS

which is FTP over SSL

ASCII-only

2:40 PM

@Mayube nah. it's just toeing the line between esoteric and practical

ATaco

Now I've got nodeJS installed, I'm halfway to bad practices.

ASCII-only

@ATaco didn't you use JS already

Mayube

@ASCII-only look, if you wanna try and do something practical with it, that's your probelm

ATaco

Yep, and a-ta.co was 90% bad practices

ASCII-only

@ATaco ~~at least it's not perl~~

@Mayube :P

ATaco

2:41 PM

Including at least 2 exploits that allowed users to gain root access.

Pavel

I just use git instead of anything like sshfs or or whatever

ATaco

Security through obscurity and all that

Naww. .jsd is also gone.

Dennis

Which distro are you using? Fedora's SELinux saved TIO on multiple occasions.

ATaco

Fedora 28

And those exploits were 100% my own fault.

Dennis

Great! DO still enables SELinux but default, no?

ATaco

2:44 PM

Maybe, I've no idea.

Dennis

getenforce

quartata

@Mayube gopher is better than ftp

ASCII-only

@Dennis multiple occasions O_o

@Pavel what do those two even have in common >_>

ATaco

Oh god, I could use express

Enforcing

Dennis

+1

quartata

2:45 PM

just telling the damn truth like it is, everytime

@ATaco wait, are you actually using stock Node createServer

Dennis

@ASCII-only Some programming languages leave world-writable files on the server. One of them left one in /etc, and it got run by root on system startup.

ATaco

Not yet

quartata

i didn't even know anyone knew how to use that

ASCII-only

@Dennis oh yeah. that's always fun >_>

ATaco

Good News! I have a Website

Dennis

2:46 PM

\o/

quartata

@Dennis what the hell, what language

Dennis

Mathematica

ASCII-only

@ATaco nice +1

@quartata ~~look in talk.tryitonline.net~~ yeah that

quartata

oh, I guess that makes sense

still bad but

ASCII-only

@ATaco :( no console.log('%cHello, World!', 'font-size: 72pt')

Dennis

2:48 PM

These things happen. dotnet/nuget's making everything world-writable instead of world-executable is a bit more surprising.

Pavel

@ASCII-only They let me copy files from one computer to another.

Dennis

Thankfully, SELinux doesn't care about world-writable in an unprivileged context.

ASCII-only

@Pavel git???

Erik the Outgolfer

do the programmers even have the basic skill of using chmod confidently

Pavel

@ASCII-only Yes. git push on my computer, git pull on the remote.

ASCII-only

2:50 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer i do don't

@Pavel 1. git push to where 2. so hg/svn/ ~~dat~~ would work too

Pavel

Sure it would

But I use git

And to wherever. Gitlab or github

ASCII-only

doesn't let you share massive files though :P

and it's not convenient because it's not a filesystem :P

Pavel

@Dennis Says Enforcing on my machine, so I think it's just enabled by default on all fedora systems.

ATaco

The website has been greatly improved.

Dennis

On Fedora, definitely. But some VPS providers disable it by default.

Thomas Ward

2:53 PM

@Dennis usually via customized images, yes.

straight installs would default-on even on a VPS provider.

(most providers use prebuilt images that self-extract onto the VPS rather than a from-scratch installation)

Dennis

Linode, e.g., runs a customized kernel, which doesn't come with SELinux support. You can change it manually.

vultr chose to disable SELinux, because they got too many issues from customers unable to understand it.

ATaco

I'll be sure to re-implement things in the morrow.

But for now, It's nearly 1AM.

Good night, fellow golfers.

Dennis

looks out of the window Good morning!

Mayube

afternoon

Thomas Ward

grumbles, then turns to the coffee maker, and yells at it until coffee is done brewing

ATaco

2:56 PM

Error 418: I am a Teapot

Thomas Ward

'tis an hour from lunchtime here and I still haven't had my morning coffee >.<

Pavel

grumbles, then wishes there was a coffee maker here

Thomas Ward

i think i'm one of the only employees here who has his own coffee maker at his desk :P

Pavel

Actually, there is a coffee maker, but we're out of actual coffee.

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