The Nineteenth Byte

caird coinheringaahing

6:00 PM

@Cowsquack Once I've finished the base interpreter

Zacharý

No, it'd be fun to see someone get a 13

caird coinheringaahing

@Zacharý s/7/6

Zacharý

>_<

DJMcMayhem

@cairdcoinheringaahing a new submission must have golfed submissions for at least 2 of the problems, by at least 1 byte for each. Is it OK if 2 of them get shorter by 1 byte, but some other ones get longer?

caird coinheringaahing

~~I'd say yes, I'll edit that in~~ No

Zacharý

6:03 PM

One other one exactly by one byte.

caird coinheringaahing

Although, that could lead to people increasing submission lengths to make it easier for later answers

Zacharý

Make it so the total byte count has to decrease.

caird coinheringaahing

(Regarding the short change fro ^^^^, I had "10 seconds left to edit" :/)

@Zacharý Yeah, I think that's better

Cows quack

"You must wait for an hour between posting answers" I think you should extend this time because 1 hour isn't really long for an interpreter challenge

Zacharý

Don't do the standard loophole thing... I want to see a score of 13.

DJMcMayhem

6:05 PM

I'd rather have a language that you can validly use on existing challenges

Disallowing standard loopholes is a good idea IMO

Zacharý

As well as ^^

caird coinheringaahing

@Cowsquack What time would you recommend then? 3 hours? More or less?

Zacharý

Would errors causing quines be a standard loophole

AdmBorkBork

@cairdcoinheringaahing Bugle. From the acronym BuGoL for Built Golfing Language.

Cows quack

3 seems okay

AdmBorkBork

6:07 PM

Also, it's sort of a rallying cry for golfers to come together.

Cows quack

what are you going to do about FGITW'ing?

caird coinheringaahing

@Cowsquack I don't understand?

Cows quack

as in, multiple people post the answer at the same time, and some people will have to remove their hard-worked interpreters because they weren't fast enough

caird coinheringaahing

Same way normal answer chaining challenges work - earlier submission is valid and stays

Zacharý

Random chance?

FGITW

DJMcMayhem

6:10 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Random rule idea: Don't answer any PPCG challenges in <insert language name here> until the challenge is over

That way we don't get a ton of invalidated answers

Cows quack

I meant a way of coordinating who answers next

caird coinheringaahing

@DJMcMayhem facepalm How did I forget that rule?

@Cowsquack I'm not following. After an answer, anyone except that answerer can post a valid answer. You don't have to co-ordinate anything

DJMcMayhem

Why the 1 hour restriction?

(Out of curiosity, I'm not sure what that solves)

Zacharý

@cairdcoinheringaahing We still might get a ton of invalidated answers b.c. of after the challenge being over, modifications occurring.

caird coinheringaahing

I'm not really sure either, I've just seen it in every other answer-chaining challenge I've seen (including the first one IIRC)

@DJMcMayhem Allowing people to answer with the language, but forcing them to specify which version of the interpreter they used could prevent that (cc @Zacharý)

DJMcMayhem

6:16 PM

True, but I don't see much benefit if all 20 of those challenges end up with a bunch of extra answers for an old version of an obscure language

AdmBorkBork

^ That

Cows quack

@cairdcoinheringaahing let me try to make myself clearer with an example, how do you prevent situations like this, person Y answers just 3 seconds after person X answers

DJMcMayhem

@cairdcoinheringaahing One more idea. Can You may not post twice in a row expire after some time? That way, if someone wants to keep it going longer, they could keep updating the language if no one else beats them too it

caird coinheringaahing

@Cowsquack Person Y deletes their answer

DJMcMayhem

I'm thinking something like a day or 2

caird coinheringaahing

6:20 PM

@DJMcMayhem I think a day may be too short. Given that the expiry time is 2 weeks, 10 days seems more suited to allow anyone to continue the chain

DJMcMayhem

@Cowsquack I don't think that can be prevented, but removing the You must wait an hour between posts would make it suck less when it happens (cc. @cairdcoinheringaahing)

@cairdcoinheringaahing Fair enough. How about 1 week to make it a nice even number?

Zacharý

How is that even, it's seven days!

AdmBorkBork

isEven(7)
False

Zacharý

Ninja'd

AdmBorkBork

Yeah, but mine was pseudo-code'd, so that makes it better. :p

Cows quack

6:22 PM

@DJMcMayhem hmm, I thought extending this time would make it less likely than reducing this time, but I do somewhat see your point

caird coinheringaahing

Ah, there may have been some confusion. The one hour restriction only applies if your answer is valid (I'll edit that in)

DJMcMayhem

Extending the time will just make collisions more likely.

totallyhuman

oh huh i didn't realize the oeis challenge died

DJMcMayhem

@cairdcoinheringaahing BTW, in case I forgot to say this too, I think it's an excellent challenge. There's still some nitpicking to be done, but I'm really excited for it

AdmBorkBork

I am too, though I likely won't participate. It'll be neat to see what people come up with.

totallyhuman

6:26 PM

what's worse is the next sequence was rather easy

Pavel

Does anyone know what does it mean when Bash exits with code 153?

Zacharý

I might participate once everyone stops FGITW'ing

Crap, wrong room for that suffix >_<

AdmBorkBork

@Pavel This site indicates that you're actually looking for signal 25

Pavel

@AdmBorkBork That's SIGCONT though

It shouldn't cause Bash to exit

It's like the opposite of fatal

AdmBorkBork

Huh, yeah, I just looked that up.

Interesting.

What are you calling inside your bash script? Maybe bash is just passing along whatever error signal it received. Like this page says 153 is "file size limit exceeded" for whatever program the batch is running.

Pavel

6:39 PM

See that makes a lot more sense than SIGCONT

Because I am in fact piping yes into a file.

DJMcMayhem

Well there's your problem

Pavel

It's not that I'm trying to achieve anything useful

Zacharý

Trying to speak/write in 3 languages at once is rather hard for my American brain >_<

DJMcMayhem

CMC: Recreate yes without using any of these characters: "YyEeSs"

Pavel

It just looked like Bash was exiting with a fatal SIGCONT, so I was confused

Zacharý

6:41 PM

without " too?

DJMcMayhem

No, " is fine

totallyhuman

uh oh

DJMcMayhem

I have a 15 byte vim solution (or 8 in V)

Pavel

@DJMcMayhem let f=printfn "%c" 121;f

totallyhuman

natural-language is a minefield...

Zacharý

6:44 PM

@totallyhuman ... of course it is

DJMcMayhem

Oh doi. I forgot that yes outputs y, not yes

AdmBorkBork

What does yes output? Just y?

ninjango'd

DJMcMayhem

In that case, I have a 13 byte vim solution (or 6 in V)

Cows quack

would òoy work?

DJMcMayhem

Yes, but that contains a y

Cows quack

6:45 PM

>_> silly me

AdmBorkBork

I have 16 in PowerShell -- for(){[char]121}

Pavel

@Pavel nvm not even remotely correct

totallyhuman

Haskell, 26 bytes: f=do putStrLn$succ<$>"x";f

Dennis

@DJMcMayhem I also takes a command-line argument.

AdmBorkBork

What does the argument do?

totallyhuman

6:54 PM

change the infinitely printed text

Pavel

So yes foo would print infinite foos

totallyhuman

yes yes\nyes\nyes\nyes\nyes\nyes\nyes\nyes...

AdmBorkBork

Ah, interesting.

DJMcMayhem

Terrible idea: Pipe the output of a yes command into the arguments to the next yes

New Main Posts

0

Q: Sound out capital letters

Challenge The input will be a string. You can assume the string contains only uppercase letters and spaces (i.e. matches regex [A-Z ]*). You need to output the letters spelt phonetically as if they had been spoken as capitals. The output should be lowercase and split by spaces and underscores (...

DJMcMayhem

6:55 PM

But recursively

Zacharý

That contains an s

Pavel

@DJMcMayhem That just kills your terminal

Source: Just tried

Dennis

@DJMcMayhem Sesos, 6 bytes

Zacharý

I just noticed that I tend to have the property to revive dead (in activity, but not frozen)rooms or something similar.

Dennis

When there are no RO's left, ownership gets transferred to the most active user.

DJMcMayhem

6:58 PM

TIL

Zacharý

I mean I seem to cause activity (Le Dix Neuvième Byte, Esperanto, and Linguistics ... might just be coincidental)

Pavel

@DJMcMayhem This was not a good idea

DJMcMayhem

That's why my message started with Terrible idea: lol

totallyhuman

it lagged my computer out for a bit

but something killed it

Pavel

It took my OOM Killer a solid two minutes to start pulling its weight

Also my audio died

totallyhuman

7:00 PM

well, note to self, don't ever run yes `yes yes`

Pavel

Don't ever put yes in backticks

Zacharý

yes

AdmBorkBork

@DJMcMayhem Corrected to take cmd-line arguments for 35 bytes -- param($a)for(){($a,[char]121)[!$a]}

Dennis

@Pavel Do you have swap?

totallyhuman

*TNB goes into timeout*

Pavel

7:02 PM

@Dennis Yes

Zacharý

Have you tried turning it off then back on again?

Doesn't everyone?

I don't.

Huh

@Pavel That's the problem. The OOM killer will patiently wait until your swap fills up, which takes its time.

Pavel

7:03 PM

yes | sponge foo, intrestingly enough, is safe and will die almost instantly

NieDzejkob

what is sponge?

Pavel

@NieDzejkob Writes the input stream to a file, after sponging up the entire stream.

If you want to, for example, run expand to modify a file, you might think of doing expand foo > foo. What this will do it cause expand to destroy the file after writing one line.

expand foo | sponge foo will let expand finish and let the file be written too safely.

Dennis

yes $(yes) should also die gracefully imo. There's no point in going on once the output exceeds ARG_MAX.

Downgoat

does page render correctly for everyone: staging.vihan.org/VSL/libvsl/test-docs (it shouldn't have much, just a list of items on the left and a title on the top)

Pavel

Implementing this will inevitably lead to future generations running yes $(yes|tr -d '\n') for no reason

Dennis

7:08 PM

ARG_MAX limits the combined length of all arguments, so that would still halt early.

Pavel

Ah, I thought it was the amount of arguments only

@Dennis Is ARG_MAX an environment variable?

It's not set for me

totallyhuman

looks like that also caused screen flickering

Dennis

You can get the value with getconf ARG_MAX.

totallyhuman

note to self, get a shell license

Pavel

A what now?

AdmBorkBork

7:30 PM

@Downgoat Looks good to me, Señor Cabra

Chrome whatever on Win 8.1

Dennis

@DJMcMayhem Bash, 15 bytes, $'\171\145\163' :P

Pavel

God dammit

@Dennis Shouldn't that be $'\171\145\163' $@

Cows quack

why do you need to quotes?

Pavel

I'm actually intrested on the rules here

Zacharý

@AdmBorkBork Please, don't throw another language onto my tortured brain.

Dennis

7:37 PM

@Pavel Don't look at me. :P

AdmBorkBork

@Zacharý Muy bien, мой ami.

Zacharý

FERMEZ LA BOUCHE!

Pavel

Is that french

AdmBorkBork

Yeah, for "shut your mouth!"

Pavel

@AdmBorkBork мой ami is my new favorite thing

Zacharý

7:43 PM

god ... cyrillic italics.

Now my brain hurts more

Pavel

@Zacharý Not as bad as cyrillic cursive

Zacharý

Same thing, really. Just brainfucky

Pavel

It really isn't

AdmBorkBork

@Pavel Glad I can bring you joy. :D

Pavel

Cyrillic cursive has like 5 different letters that are all written the same way

You have to kinda judge the breaks between letters by the spacing

And context

AdmBorkBork

7:50 PM

I kinda miss my Russian class

Pavel

Like imagine you had a bunch of vs and ws written in a continues line, and that's the entire word, and you have to figure out which are the vs and which are the ws

Zacharý

Out of all the languages of mathematics, French is best.

(Greek and Latin: Dead. German: Long words. Russian: that cursive, cases, etc. And I don't count English, as that's my native language)

Pavel

At least in the languages other than French you can have a hope of being able to pronounce the words correctly

Zacharý

That stress with russian.

No.

French honestly seems so close to English in so many ways.

Pavel

@Zacharý Huh?

Zacharý

7:59 PM

Doesn't stress cause some weird stuff phonologically?

And the PALATALIZATION

AdmBorkBork

Russian is very WYSIWYG

If there's an M it's going to be pronounced such-and-such, no matter where it is in the word.

Conjugation is also very consistent, too.

Zacharý

French consonants are that way as well, it's not straight-up Czech, but it's not as bad as English.

If you see a "ch", it pretty much always makes a "sh" sound.

It just has some digraphs, that's all.

The VOWELS, on the other hand ... ugh

But Czech has the best natural (i.e. evolved naturally from Latin) orthography ever. I'm saying it now.

I had to choose from Spanish, French, or Latin at our school. I picked French pretty much because Canada.

AdmBorkBork

I don't know any Czech, aside from knowing that "cz" is "ch" and "ch" is "ck".

Zacharý

Wrong

AdmBorkBork

OK, that was pretty much a joke based off of "Czech"

Zacharý

8:07 PM

"Ch" is like german "ch", and "cz" is polish.

AdmBorkBork

Oh, you should've taken Latin ... that way you could've summoned demons to do your bidding.

Zacharý

If I had to choose a dead language to learn: Ancient Greek.

AdmBorkBork

(I do like how TNB seems to always delve into linguistics at some point. It's a common topic.)

Ancient Greek, really? What would you do with that language knowledge?

Zacharý

Use it to study Modern Greek.

And Euclid > All those latin junkies who just wrote in it b.c. the church

Also, speaking of Czech and Ancient greek, there is that ONE book/

AdmBorkBork

Oh, sure, you could do a lot of hermeneutics study of the ancient Bible and other time-related writings.

Zacharý

8:15 PM

I mean that would be if I had to pick a dead language

Downgoat

is it clear what this means?

Zacharý

Non

No

Kaj ne

Downgoat

:(

what part is unclear (how can I make it clear)

AdmBorkBork

I don't know what T and C mean

Zacharý

^

mınxomaτ

8:16 PM

^

Downgoat

oh those stand for TypeAlias and Class respectively

if you have this information is it more clear

AdmBorkBork

Yes

Zacharý

Yeah, that's clearer

Magic Octopus Urn

Is this a website? Could do some tool-tipage.

Downgoat

@MagicOctopusUrn yeah, I'm working on VSL documentation generator

DLosc

8:22 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer In reference to the binary Fibonacci question: my point was not that the question wasn't unclear, but that it could easily be edited (by high-rep users such as you or I) and be made clear (and then probably leave a comment for the OP's benefit). When the OP's intention is easily guessable, I think a quick edit is better/less "traumatic" than going through the process of closing and reopening.

Magic Octopus Urn

@Downgoat Is that bootstrap 4.0?

Downgoat

@MagicOctopusUrn ew no :P

Magic Octopus Urn

@Downgoat What UI lib is that?

Downgoat

no UI lib

Magic Octopus Urn

@Downgoat :O noice then.

New Sandboxed Posts

8:26 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Where am I? Given a string d, containing only the letters NSWE, determine the coordinates I've traveled (from left to right, consuming greedily) and the final coordinate where I reside. The rules for reading coordinates from left-to-right: If the next character is N or S: If the character a...

Magic Octopus Urn

@Downgoat getbootstrap.com/docs/4.0/examples/offcanvas the borders looked a little like this. I love bootstrap, why "ew"?

Please tell me there's not some horrible flaw with it I haven't noticed O_O

Just found my second favorite SE: space.stackexchange.com

Erik the Outgolfer

@DLosc unfortunately I was very confused though

DLosc

Ah, okay. But then isn't that the right time to look at the test cases and see if you can get yourself unconfused? ;)

dzaima

10k rep :D

Erik the Outgolfer

grats

@DLosc well, I did take a peek at them, but it didn't help much :P also, as I said in the comments, the test cases are out of the spec

(that is, by meta consensus)

DLosc

8:43 PM

@dzaima \o/

Erik the Outgolfer

mind you, at first I had thought the challenge involves summation lol

DLosc

@Zacharý ἡ ῾Ελληνικὴ μεγάλη καὶ πάντα ποιεῖ. ^_^

Zacharý

i have no clue what you just said.

DLosc

"Greek is great and does all things."

Zacharý

I guess it's ... ALL GREEK TO ME!

Magic Octopus Urn

8:46 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer You weren't alone on that challenge, I just looked at the answers to see what was asked. Was really a bit confusing at first haha.

Downgoat

@MagicOctopusUrn it's super-heavy and with bootstrap now you get to look like all the other 2000000 sites made using bootstrap.

Magic Octopus Urn

@Downgoat Ahh... yeah, I used modular bootstrap. It's not half bad with sass being able to choose what modules you want to use and what you can omit. Then it automatically re-minifies.

@Downgoat Then again I don't really have another point of reference? How big is your entire CSS/JS import total?/

Downgoat

@MagicOctopusUrn for PPCG-v2 it totals 30KB

DLosc

9:03 PM

@Downgoat Looks fine to me. But for some odd reason, Google Chrome asked me if I wanted to translate the page. When I said yes, the font of libvsl in the heading changed slightly, but all the text stayed the same. o.0

Magic Octopus Urn

@Downgoat Okay, yeah, that kicks my booty undoubtedly. I think last I checked I'm at like ~350kb but my site has ~2000 users max, never simultaneously hah.

Pavel

@Downgoat Still no JS libraries/frameworks, right?

Downgoat

9:17 PM

@Pavel ppcg-v2 doesn't use any frameworks/libraries if that's what you're asking

Pavel

Yeah. IDK how much 30kb is but it just feels like a lot

Downgoat

@Pavel this chatroom has 70KB of CSS if that serves are reference

Pavel

That does help.

mbomb007

Has April's "language of the month" been decided yet?

24

Q: Nominations for Language of the Month

We've decided that we like the idea of a "Language of the Month" event. The main idea is to get more exposure for less-frequently used languages, and to have fun learning and golfing them together. The next question is, what languages shall we choose? And that's where you come in. Procedure A l...

discussion language-of-the-month

DJMcMayhem

@mbomb007 Unless 6+ votes for MATL come in within the next day, It'll be brain-flak

Magic Octopus Urn

9:22 PM

@Pavel I've seen a website with 5 MB of bulk CSS/JS... Used by 10 people simultaneously and hadn't crashed in 10 years. Was like Microsoft Frontpage or something ridiculously outdated.

Erik the Outgolfer

@mbomb007 yeah it's "automatic", but that made me think about the case a tie-breaker is needed

Downgoat

is this looking nice?

Magic Octopus Urn

9:35 PM

@Downgoat As pretty as bootstrap without the hidden evil. It's like a cute girl who's actually nice on the inside too!

New Main Posts

10:14 PM

0

Q: 1, 2, 3, 14... or is it 15?

A well known song by the Irish rock band U2 starts with the singer Bono saying "1,2,3,14" in Spanish ("uno, dos, tres, catorce"). There are various theories as to the significance of those numbers. Apparently the official explanation is "we drank too much that night". But there's a more interest...

code-golf math sequence number-theory primes

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