The Nineteenth Byte

caird coinheringaahing

6:00 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer Remember, this is Stack Exchange we're talking about

totallyhuman

CMC: contribute to ppcg v2 so we don't have to deal with SE

Mr. Xcoder

That’s why we need PPCG v2 :P

Lol ninja’d

caird coinheringaahing

Perfect :D

Erik the Outgolfer

@cairdcoinheringaahing I don't think they would have deployed it live if they had tested it good enough, just saying

I imagine Joel shouting in the SE HQs rn...

Dennis

@EriktheOutgolfer I've never read abominational before. It looks like a portmanteau of abominable and national, but that can't be right.

Erik the Outgolfer

6:03 PM

@Dennis not abominable, abomination

and of course no national in there

DJMcMayhem

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090128112258AANb2hw

From the almighty Old crappy equivalent of SE

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer At least Jeff isn't there with his giant S :P

Erik the Outgolfer

Y! Answers and SE don't go in the same sentence >_>

Mr. Xcoder

in Jelly Hypertraining, 58 mins ago, by caird coinheringaahing

CMC: Prove Jelly to be Turing Complete

Dennis

@EriktheOutgolfer Both abominable and abomination derive from abominate.

Anonymous

6:04 PM

@DJMcMayhem No, Quora is the old crappy equivalent of SE. Yahoo Answers is the old crappy equivalent of Quora.

6

Dennis

@Mr.Xcoder ŒV evaluates arbitrary Python code, and Python is TC.

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder Dennis wins with 2 bytes :P

Mr. Xcoder

Well ;-; you can prove it without Python evaluation, right?

Erik the Outgolfer

well, hopefully

Anonymous

@Mr.Xcoder Yep, with a brainfuck interpreter

Mr. Xcoder

6:06 PM

@Mego And SE is (will be) (for some of us) the old crappy version of PPCG v2

Erik the Outgolfer

codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/110666/41024

now try to make this seriously competitive

(note: some people may not see an answer there)

caird coinheringaahing

Adding the number of characters from the Python answer to string terminators and ŒV would work. Not sure if it's the shortest.

Erik the Outgolfer

so, 13? hm

Pavel

Nevermind

I should try to understand it better first

caird coinheringaahing

Does the Mathematical Insight category have to simplify a challenge, or can it just be a brilliant answer, mathematically?

Anonymous

6:18 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing The latter

Laikoni

3

A: What happened to the top bar and it's restored now

There's a project underway to bring the mobile theme more inline with the design of the full site, including the new top bar and some experiments with vertical navigation that haven't been fully realized yet. This... Clearly needs a bit more time to bake, so we've reverted the change pending fur...

Looks like this was on purpose.

Pavel

ffs

New Main Posts

0

Q: Find Integral Roots Of A n-degree polynomial

Challenge The challenge is to write a program that takes the coefficients of any n-degree polynomial equation as input and returns the integral values of x for which the equation holds true. The coefficients will be provided as input in the order of decreasing power. You can assume all the coeff...

HyperNeutrino

accidentally used my dupehammer but I think it's objectively a duple, anyone think there's value in a separate question?

I guess OP agreed with me¯\_(ツ)_/¯?

Manish Kundu

At least you could have told me it was a dupe when it was in sandbox

Erik the Outgolfer

6:25 PM

the sandbox has issues, how long was it in the sandbox?

H.PWiz

I dunno, it's not like any of the solutions to the other challenge would be competitive (except maybe builtins).

HyperNeutrino

Sorry, I didn't see it in sandbox¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I probably wasn't online when Feeds posted it. I usually post my sandbox link before posting just to get final feedback

Manish Kundu

I think 16 hours already

HyperNeutrino

...

24 hours is usually like a bare minimum if you want to get ~~enough~~ any feedback

caird coinheringaahing

That isn't long

Erik the Outgolfer

6:26 PM

oh, that's too little time for the sandbox to be effective, the recommended time is 72 hours

HyperNeutrino

16 hours I think is almost short enough that some people can completely miss a chance at seeing it based on timezones and schedules.

Manish Kundu

Oo

caird coinheringaahing

I really want to nominate this answer for "Best Mathematical Insight", but can't think of anything good to say :/

Pavel

@cairdcoinheringaahing technically I don't think you need to say anything

Erik the Outgolfer

yes the voting comes after the nominations

H.PWiz

6:29 PM

@HyperNeutrino Actually, I just looked at the other question. It is significantly harder than this one, and only has one answer. I would vote to reopen if I could.

HyperNeutrino

@H.PWiz I can see where you're coming from but other than trivial builtins, I think this challenge would be on the same magnitude of difficulty.

Dennis

@HyperNeutrino Finding integer roots is a lot easier; you can just try all possible solutions. Finding all solutions and removing non-integer ones would be a lot longer in languages without the appropriate builtins.

H.PWiz

@HyperNeutrino Rational root theorem does it for most. A modifiction could make it work for all

HyperNeutrino

Is there a way to find a bound for the limits? In that case then sorry, I made the wrong decision then (my math isn't good enough :P :/)

@ManishKundu Undelete?

Erik the Outgolfer

I'd not advise undeleting, but rather back to sandbox for more hours

Conor O'Brien

6:32 PM

what's the point of putting "related" comment links in questions? I never got the point

HyperNeutrino

ig

H.PWiz

@ConorO'Brien It lets SE add links on the sidebar, I tink

HyperNeutrino

@ConorO'Brien I find it helpful if I found the challenge interesting and want to work on similar challenges, though I don't find that to happen too often. Also what H.PWiz said.

totallyhuman

I hate SE hammers

Conor O'Brien

I meant things like this @HyperNeutrino

HyperNeutrino

6:33 PM

hm ok

totallyhuman

...also can I rename mine to mjolnir

HyperNeutrino

mjonlir or mjolnir? i can't remember

totallyhuman

Mjǫllnir

HyperNeutrino

wow so I've been pronouncing it incorrectly this whole time I guess

totallyhuman

that's the Norse for it anyways :P

HyperNeutrino

6:37 PM

ok :p

totallyhuman

just had a fairly revealing conversation with shog

HyperNeutrino

o0

totallyhuman

Can... Can you guys please dedicate the energy into fixing the app first? Honest request. — totallyhuman 10 mins ago

Manish Kundu

Should I undelete?

HyperNeutrino

nah, I'd say leave it in sandbox for some time longer

if you deleted the sandbox post then yes, undel that

Manish Kundu

6:46 PM

Okay

Done codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/14654/77516

HyperNeutrino

I still think that coefficients should be allowed to be taken in any order, but we can discuss it here if you would like.

Manish Kundu

In decreasing order seems fine because that's how it's generally written in maths and also it keeps things simple

HyperNeutrino

I do agree that decreasing order is definitely a good input format; however, I think that increasing should also be allowed because some solutions that might want it going up will just have to reverse it which is an unnecessary burden with no added difficulty, just bytecount. That's my logic behind why I think increasing power should also be allowed as an input format.

Manish Kundu

Sounds okay.

Well I added that in the post now

Erik the Outgolfer

7:06 PM

@ConorO'Brien the only reason is to link related challenges to the sidebar

(which one should be able to do without posting a comment)

HyperNeutrino

feature-request

HyperNeutrino

8:09 PM

hm interesting observation, when the chatroom is loaded and 1 hour passes since the last message, it will only show the message after you reload. I wonder if sending a message would also cause that message to show up (I can't test because I just reloaded)

AdmBorkBork

8:21 PM

@HyperNeutrino Huh. I get a The last message was posted X hours ago. sort of thing, without reloading. I'm on desktop Chrome.

J. Sallé

@AdmBorkBork Same on desktop FF quantum.

HyperNeutrino

hm desktop chrome

maybe I didn't wait long enough :p

ETHproductions

Random question of the day: is bitwise OR possible in BF?

I would assume so, but I have no idea where to start

Mr. Xcoder

@ETHproductions -[[>>>>>>[>>>]++[-<<<]<<<-]>]>>>[<]>[[>[>+<-]>[<<<<<<+>>>>>>[-]]>]+[<[<<<++>>>-‌]<<]>>]

Relevant answer.

ETHproductions

oh, I didn't think to search PPCG :P thanks!

Mr. Xcoder

8:33 PM

I actually googled it and the first result was from PPCG :p

ETHproductions

I was looking through the BF algorithms page on esolangs

Mr. Xcoder

Looking for things about programming you don’t expect to find on google? Search PPCG! :P

ETHproductions

haha, true :P

I don't need it in BF, per se, but I'm working with an extremely limited subset of JS and trying to work out an algorithm

the charset is ()?:f1>- plus the arrow operator =>

and yet somehow this is turing-complete

Mr. Xcoder

O wow good luck

ETHproductions

I've figured out how to implement >>1 (rather pointless actually, since those chars are allowed) and %2, so I think I can get this

totallyhuman

8:41 PM

bitwise or is one of those where it's not trivial arithmetically

which sucks

Mr. Xcoder

... but it's funnier that way

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Title wanted, please help 0. DEFINITIONS For the purposes of this challenge, a sequence refers to a list of numbers whose absolute values increment in steps of 1. A sequence begins with a value of 1, 0, or -1. A positive sequence refers to the natural numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4, and so on. A negative ...

totallyhuman

CMC: convert to binary (looking for brainfuck, but answer in whatever you please)

mudkip201

@totallyhuman Pyt, 1 byte: ɓ

:P

Mr. Xcoder

That shouldn't be too hard, even for brainfuck.

Might give it a go tomorrow

totallyhuman

8:47 PM

bin(0) = "0"
bin(1) = "1"
bin(n) = bin(⌊n ÷ 2⌋) + str(n mod 2)

one possible algorithm

ETHproductions

behold, bitwise OR in JS

(f=>f(f))(f1=>f=>ff=>f?(f=>f-(-f))(f1(f1)(f>>1)(ff>>1)) -((f=>f(f))(ff=>f=>f>1?ff(ff)(f-1-1):f)(f)? -1:-(f=>f(f))(ff=>f=>f>1?ff(ff)(f-1-1):f)(ff)):ff)

totallyhuman

a=>b=>a|b

Mr. Xcoder

Omi... Well done, ETH.

totallyhuman

...i cannot comprehend that...

Mr. Xcoder

@ETHproductions You seem to have a redundant space in ...(ff>>1)) -(...

totallyhuman

8:50 PM

@ETHproductions plus a space?

Mr. Xcoder

Actually, make that 2?

ETHproductions

SE adds in ZWNJ's every 80 chars if there's no whitespace, IIRC

so I added two spaces just to be sure that didn't happen

Mr. Xcoder

Ugh yeah...

totallyhuman

3 hours ago, by totallyhuman

CMC: contribute to ppcg v2 so we don't have to deal with SE

s/S/chat.S/

ETHproductions

I shall now attempt to solve the binary CMC with this version of JS

Mr. Xcoder

8:52 PM

So contribute to ppcg v2 chat.So we don't have to deal with chat.SE? :P

totallyhuman

case-sensitivity

Zacharý

What's the character set that this is restricted to?

Mr. Xcoder

@Zacharý ()?:f1>- + =>

totallyhuman

16 mins ago, by ETHproductions

the charset is ()?:f1>- plus the arrow operator =>

...sorta ninja'd

...fine, edit ninja'd

Mr. Xcoder

;-; I regret using spaces instead of tabs inside the Triangularity source code ;-;

totallyhuman

8:55 PM

is triangularity written in python

(please be no)

Mr. Xcoder

Yes

Zacharý

Oh God, just keep it consistent

totallyhuman

find and replace now :P

Zacharý

Use 1 space everywhere, only acceptable option

totallyhuman

ew

Zacharý

8:56 PM

:p

Mr. Xcoder

That feel when you have the headphones connected to your phone but use a computer, and spam the volume button wondering why it doesn't change...

totallyhuman

spaces or tabs, i think we can all agree less than 2 spaces is bad

Mr. Xcoder

Even that would be better instead of having to add 16 manually each time ;-;

HyperNeutrino

or when you have it plugged into your computer and you're using your computer but not wearing the headphones

Zacharý

No, because we're all golfers here

totallyhuman

8:58 PM

@Mr.Xcoder find and replace

@Zacharý when we're not golfing

Mr. Xcoder

On tio....

dzaima

@totallyhuman Canvas, 17 bytes, recursive approach. A loop would probably be shorter :p

Mr. Xcoder

Because PyCharm is crap and doesn't support sys.stdin.readlines()

totallyhuman

@Mr.Xcoder then copy it over to a sane editor and paste it back :P

Zacharý

Anyone else have their golfing practices bleed into their normal coding style?

?

Mr. Xcoder

8:59 PM

Yeah, me.

also golfing*

Zacharý

AUTOCORRECT

HyperNeutrino

yes, apparently it's quite obvious from my coding style that I'm a golfer :p

and also when I look at the same relatively simple CS problem as my friends, I have far different thought processes from all of them :p (30 line soln vs 5 line soln)

totallyhuman

I've surprisingly managed

Zacharý

Same here, especially in APL.

totallyhuman

but my algorithms have tended to get shorter

HyperNeutrino

9:01 PM

my code isn't short, it's just messy and organized in fewer but longer statements

totallyhuman

which is a good thing

HyperNeutrino

mostly in production code

totallyhuman

@HyperNeutrino can I recommend a linter

HyperNeutrino

but that hasn't made my programs any less efficient or any slower :P

@totallyhuman ?

totallyhuman

try a linter, it helps

Zacharý

9:02 PM

My code is inefficient as hell

Mr. Xcoder

;-; Why did I join the tnb-forwarding thread on Discord

Zacharý

^

totallyhuman

;-; why is there no stable discord build for linux

Mr. Xcoder

... nor for Mac

Windows-centric development... eugh

totallyhuman

Oh wait there is NVM

Mr. Xcoder

9:08 PM

I've done the massive refactoring spaces -> tabs by hand

ETHproductions

@totallyhuman 105 bytes: (f=>f(f))(ff=>f=>f?(f=>f-(-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f))(ff(ff)(f>>1))-(f=>f(f)) (ff=>f=>f>1?ff(ff)(f-1-1):-f)(f):f) (space added again)

Mr. Xcoder

Poll: Does this code have a sane indentation?

Riker

no

Mr. Xcoder

;-;

Riker

tabs are 4 spaces, not 8

ETHproductions

9:11 PM

tell that to GH :P

Mr. Xcoder

Huh?

Riker

tabs should be 4 spaces long >.>

Mr. Xcoder

And... they aren't?

Dennis

@Riker *nix, Python, and Chrome beg to differ.

Riker

they should all sit in the corner and think about their puny electronic lives

Zacharý

9:12 PM

Looks reasonable

Mr. Xcoder

huh ok

Riker

@Dennis what, python? it uses 2 spaces for indents

Mr. Xcoder

Trying to implement loops.

Zacharý

@Riker 4 iirc

Dennis

@Riker In Python 2's indentation, one tab is equivalent to 8 spaces.

Mr. Xcoder

9:13 PM

I just hope I won't bother Dennis too many times for bug fixes, so I'm trying to do it properly

Riker

@Zacharý huh, I thougth it was 2 raw spaces but ok

@Mr.Xcoder just ping him regularly every week or so :p

~~regardless of whether you've actually changed anything~~

Mr. Xcoder

I did make some changes, I had 2 (literally) unusable commands

Riker

I know somebody who hosts a server, one of the programs on that server is updated often, he's just got a crontab to update it daily

Zacharý

Solution: use 1 space

Noone considers a tab a space

Riker

that's because no one is that insane

Mr. Xcoder

9:16 PM

Yaaaaay \o/

Zacharý

And doesn't Py2 allow weird stuff with mixing spaces and tabs?

Riker

> No. Sounds like something Bush would say.

lol wut

Mr. Xcoder

Py2 does

totallyhuman

but you shouldn't be using python 2 anyways

Mr. Xcoder

Exactly

Except for... golfing!

Zacharý

9:22 PM

>_<

Mr. Xcoder

Python 3 can also be annoying sometimes with its types and the fact that reversed, range, zip don’t return lists IMO

totallyhuman

it can be annoying but it's definitely better than using python 2

Anonymous

@Mr.Xcoder That's a good thing - they return lazy generators, like real functional programming languages

Mr. Xcoder

I still think they’re rather annoying, because I don’t really write production code :P

Οurous

If there's a distinction between "real" and "fake" functional programming languages, I'd say that the "real" ones don't need to specify that generators are lazy.

Mr. Xcoder

9:31 PM

;-; I want Husk’s/Haskell’s inifinite lists in Python

AdmBorkBork

All you young whipper-snappers! Back in my day we used a GOTO statement uphill, both ways, in six feet of snow, and we were glad we had that! grumble, grumble

Mr. Xcoder

Hehe, it’s amazing how rapidly things evolve

caird coinheringaahing

TFW Your language has single byte commands and has functions, but converting to int takes 10 bytes :/

totallyhuman

@Mr.Xcoder ...generators

caird coinheringaahing

x=0;while 1: x+=1; yield x basically creates an infinite range

Οurous

9:39 PM

so does [0..]

caird coinheringaahing

Not in Python :D

Python hates golfing :P

Mr. Xcoder

Also did you just put a semicolon before a while loop?

caird coinheringaahing

Python CMC: Create an id function. Given x, return x

@Mr.Xcoder Mobile. Can't do multiline.

Οurous

lambda x:x?

totallyhuman

can if you have a proper keyboard

caird coinheringaahing

9:42 PM

@totallyhuman How?

totallyhuman

like
this :P

i dunno if it works for ios but try shhift+enter

mudkip201

lol

DJMcMayhem

10:01 PM

@Mr.Xcoder Python 3 has some sweet tricks at times (splat is the most obvious example that comes to mind)

Riker

@totallyhuman heathens (cc @Mr.Xcoder)

@DJMcMayhem splat is in py2

DJMcMayhem

I'm like 90% sure that's false

Riker

>>> f = lambda *x: x[0]
>>> f(*([1,2],[2,3]))
[1, 2]

works with s/\*x/(x,y)/

Anonymous

Python 3 extends splat to do other cool stuff

DLosc

@Mego Such as [*range(x)]. In Python 2, you would instead be forced to write range(x). :D

(Kidding--I like Python 3, mostly.)

Anonymous

10:09 PM

Like iterable unpacking and multi-splatting

Anonymous

(PEP 3132 and 448, respectively)

DLosc

Actually, I don't think I knew you could do a, *b, c = range(5). That's pretty cool.

4

HyperNeutrino

Wait you can do that? As long as there's less than one unpack I guess

Anonymous

Also set splatting

Anonymous

@DLosc Since 3.5

Anonymous

10:11 PM

Iterable unpacking even works if the iterable is too short for the splatted var

Poke

encoding conversions will be my bane

this sucks

why this api uses utf16le i'll never know

character encoding and http rfc's

maybe i'll make those into challenges

/troll

DJMcMayhem

@DLosc That is really cool

Anonymous

Python 3 only has two disadvantages compared to 2: verbosity from functions instead of statements (which really only matters in golf) and the fact that reduce isn't a builtin function anymore (because GvR hasn't seen the light and embraced functional programming)

Riker

you missed "isn't python 2" /s

caird coinheringaahing

11:41 PM

Can we please remove this answer? It directly violates the "numbers must be valid tokens" rule. I'd flag, but I'd like to test the waters first.

Blue

tio.run/##K6gsycjPM/7/… is kind of cool that I'm not sure if should be a thing

Pavel

11:53 PM

@Mego Coconut is love, coconut is life

Laikoni

@Pavel Coconut has some nice features, but the pattern matching is annoying.

Pavel

@Laikoni Well, fortunatly, you only have to use the features you want to use, and do it like python everywhere else.

For me, those features are piping and switch/case

Zacharý

Switch case? So Coconut > Python already

Pavel

@Zacharý Yep. I have no idea how Python's gone so long without getting switch/case

Although Coconut calls it case/match and it actually does pattern matching rather than just switch/case

Laikoni

@Pavel True, but coming from other functional languages like Haskell or SML where pattern matching is ubiquitous with the premise that you can now use those constructs in Python was a bit disappointing.

mudkip201

11:58 PM

can't you use dictionaries for some switch/case situations?

Zacharý

Yeah, but it gets tedious. (I think)