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8:00 PM
Nah, no need for a super ping
 
eggs Mith to do it
 
Just a regular old '@Shog9'
 
Anonymous
He hasn't been in here recently enough for a regular ping - unless you mean pinging him elsewhere
 
Hmm, has Shog ever been here?
 
Anonymous
@cairdcoinheringaahing Yep, around the time we graduated was the last time I remember
 
8:02 PM
@Mego yeah, elsewhere
 
CMP: Should Proton be pass-by-reference or pass-by-value, and should there be an option to specify the other type when calling a function?
 
@HyperNeutrino Pass-by-bucket-brigade. The variable is stored in an intermediate object and both sides need to independently call .Get() and .Set() methods on it.
 
@Mithrandir That conversation lead to me finding this gem of a comment:
 
@AdmBorkBork I'm assuming that's meant to be an extremely inconvenient type?
 
8:04 PM
@Mego double check that you don't have a notification on Twitter, please
 
Yes.
 
ಠ_ಠ guess deleted comments don't comment onebox
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir Nope, none
 
Anonymous
@cairdcoinheringaahing Of course not. Users that don't have the rep level to view them shouldn't see them in chat, either.
 
(I was just going to say that lol)
 
8:06 PM
Pass by Voodoo, Variables aren't referenced, but mystically effect their origin.
 
what?
 
The called function randomly chooses some value of memory and hopes it's the correct variable.
 
Pass by superposition: if the function modifies the variable, the true value is now in a superposition.
 
Any of you ever suffer from post nasal drip
Asking for a friend >.>
 
Anonymous
@Poke Only when my allergies cause problems in the springtime
 
8:08 PM
Pass by neutrino: you have to throw Hyper at your computer to call a function
 
@Mego Any recommendations on how to relieve the throat business
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing >_>
 
Anonymous
@Poke Gargle with salt water
 
@HyperNeutrino #Hyperlivesmatter
 
I was afraid of that answer, haha
Thanks
 
8:08 PM
lol
 
Inversely pass by reference: Returned value is referenced to the internal function one.
 
Anonymous
@Poke Yeah, it's unpleasant, but effective
 
@ATaco uh what ._.
so return by reference
 
Pass by function: You call a value with a reference to the function
 
wtf that doesn't make a difference though because after the function returns, the value of the identifier within its scope is no longer valuable / dies
 
Anonymous
8:09 PM
Remind me to never hire any of you for language development jobs
14
 
@Mego Talk about star bait :P
 
@Mego Took about 3 seconds to get 4 stars
 
Also, I thought ;# instantly removed me from that list. Glad to see I have had a chance :P
 
Anonymous
@cairdcoinheringaahing You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you think it means.
 
@Mego Umm, have you seen some of the esolangs created around here? I'm surprised you had consideration in the first place.
 
8:11 PM
ok but seriously though, pass by reference or pass by value
^^^ second that
 
@Mego In what sense?
 
Anonymous
@AdmBorkBork Well I figured I could pay per byte and get cheaper labor :P
 
@HyperNeutrino I'm personally a fan of pass-by-reference, but that's just because it seems to make more sense in my head.
 
Hm okay.
 
Anonymous
@cairdcoinheringaahing Not every joke is star bait
 
8:12 PM
And what about assignment? So a = 1; b = a; b = 2; print(a) should print 1 still right?
 
Anonymous
@HyperNeutrino Pass by whatever, because you'll probably change your mind in the future anyway :P
 
but a = 1; (b => b = 2)(a); print(a) would print 2?
@Mego sigh that's true... :P
 
@Mego Maybe it wasn't intended as star bait, but it is still a message guaranteed to be starred multiple times
 
@HyperNeutrino That should print 1, yes, but that's based on how I understand variable constructors. I feel uncomfortable with having two names for the same thing.
 
@Mego are you waiting for a response from someone who's waiting for a response from someone who's waiting for a response? :D
 
8:15 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing guaranteed, eh?
ehem...
Remind me to never hire any of you for language development jobs
 
@Mego Hey, I actually participate in development of a production language.
 
@Poke ಠ_ಠ
 
Anonymous
@Adám That's fair. You're balanced out.
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing I guess you were right
 
Starring the same message twice is unnecessary.
 
Anonymous
8:16 PM
@Mithrandir Now I want spaghetti, and to fight over forks with other programmers.
 
Okay. Should I add a way to explicitly swap the assignment type?
 
@Mego Can you make the starring craze stop?
 
@HyperNeutrino a, b = b, a
 
?
No
that's not what I meant
 
Anonymous
@Adám With pleasure :)
 
8:16 PM
Never mind, misread the questions
 
unlucky...
 
I mean like have a way to make a function pass by value instead and for assignment to assign the reference instead
 
Wonder if anyone else on PPCG does language design IRL…
 
Though I can't see how the latter would be even remotely useful.
 
@Poke I still maintain I was right. Mego was simply stopping me being right. This is clearly mod abuse :P
 
8:17 PM
Farewell, star. I'll probably forget I had you in a couple minutes
 
hey, neat, I got the badge on Meta
 
@Poke o/ star
 
I got a publicist badge for Tetris :3
 
@Adám There was a PowerShell guy that helped with I/O. Haven't seen him in a while, though.
 
Anonymous
@cairdcoinheringaahing It's not mod abuse because I'm not a mod :P
 
8:18 PM
@Mego mod == RO in here (more or less)
Although, what can mods do in a specific chat room that the ROs can't?
 
Aboose?
 
A bus?
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Unfreeze
 
Anonymous
@cairdcoinheringaahing There's a rather significant difference. Mods can issue suspensions and burninate messages, as well as many other things
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing you don't want to know
 
8:19 PM
@Mithrandir Trust me, I do
 
Pass by time travel: passed variables are modified before the function call.
 
(trust the non-mod over the mod about mod stuff)
 
There's a big orange destroy button I might accidentally hit if I try to show you
 
@ATaco (head explodes)
 
@Mithrandir I'll do a Hyper and make everyone lose rep, while still getting my own rep back. Loophole found :P
 
Anonymous
8:20 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Burninate messages (remove message and all history of it so that only mods can see it), suspend and unsuspend users, set room timeouts with custom messages, freeze and unfreeze rooms, delete rooms, flag-delete messages, etc.
 
@Mego correction: even mods can't see it after its been purged
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing To be fair, that wasn't my fault, so people pitied my loss at first (until I got merged). Since you're trying it intentionally people will despise your existence :P
 
Anonymous
The answer to basically any "can mods do X" question is "yes" (within reason)
 
@Mego Can they edit messages too? Nope.
 
@Mego but can mods do X without Y?
 
Anonymous
8:21 PM
@Mithrandir Oh, I thought mods could always see the history. Thanks for the correction.
 
Anonymous
@Adám Yep, their own and others' messages, even after the normal short time period
 
I'm just seeing a "HyperNeutrino is typing" for ages, going "What is he going to respond to that?"
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing yup. Also, we can superping users, which can take up to 3 @ symbols
 
@HyperNeutrino Not if the answer is "Yes".
 
Anonymous
@HyperNeutrino Yes they can
 
8:21 PM
@Mego Can mods time travel?
 
@Adám huh?
 
\o/ Loophole found
 
@Mego "can we do it" yes we can
why am I reminded of that
(considering I don't even have a childhood how did I even recall that)
 
@Mithrandir ಠ_ಠ
 
@Adám Clever.
 
8:22 PM
@Mithrandir Wait as you add @ symbols does it become more powerful or something?
 
I thought super pings were always @@
 
What is a superping?
 
Anonymous
yesterday, by Dennis
Yes, twice.
 
@HyperNeutrino It's like Voltron. The more you combine together, the better it gets.
 
@Adám ping any user even if they've never been active or have been inactive for too long, and the message goes immediately into their inbox and allows them to chat even without 20 rep
not sure whether or not superpings bypass suspensions
@AdmBorkBork ._.
 
8:23 PM
@HyperNeutrino @*1000 == The mod knocking on your door
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing @*1001 == mod breaking down your door
 
Anonymous
@HyperNeutrino They don't. A mod has to manually unsuspend the user for them to send messages.
 
The 3rd @ is for if the person we're pinging has never been in chat ever
 
@Mithrandir FFS why?
 
@Mego ah ok
 
8:24 PM
@HyperNeutrino Mego: The answer to basically any "can mods do X" question is "yes". HN: but can mods do X without Y? If the answer is always Yes, then it requires a Y, no?
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing time travel is fun :D
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Because he's a mod
 
why not just @@ no matter what ._.
@Adám oui
(counterproof bam :P) /s
 
I wanna try this: @@133031
Did it work?
 
@HyperNeutrino Mego said the answer would be yes, not oui.
 
8:25 PM
who is that
 
Nope
 
@Adám true :P
 
Of course not, but worth a do :P
 
@HyperNeutrino Mith
ninja'd
 
8:25 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing no it's not :P :P
ah ok
 
I'm 133031, I memorized it
 
@HyperNeutrino Well, "Do or do not, there is no try"
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing try { /* prove caird wrong */ } except SomeRandomError { /* whoops */ }
 
But if I go @cairdcoinheringaahing (@cairdcoinheringaahing) that should ping.
 
8:27 PM
Also, my school puts an inspirational quote by a celebrity on the notification boards every week, and this week I realised that they ran out when the quote was from Star Wars
 
lol
what's wrong with star wars
 
Meh, I give up
 
@HyperNeutrino Nothing, I love it, but it's not really somewhere you take inspirational quotes from
 
true :P
 
(it's been twenty minutes @Mego and Jon hasn't gotten back to me, sorry)
 
8:29 PM
And it wasn't even "Do or do not, there is no try", it was "In my opinion, there is no such thing as luck"
 
FYI there actually is a big orange destroy button on your profile :P
 
And on that note, I must go to bed o/
@Mithrandir Just me, or for every one?
 
Plus some other buttons that I hope I never need to use
@cairdcoinheringaahing everyone except mods
 
@Mithrandir Such as?
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing those are secret
@cairdcoinheringaahing night!
 
8:31 PM
@Mithrandir Why?
@Mithrandir Screenshot or it isn't so.
 
There's a delete profile button and it even has a keyboard shortcut
 
@Mithrandir Can mods change the star count of chat messages?
 
We can clear stars, but no
 
I don't think so?
 
@Adám because I'm too lazy to explain them, mostly :P
 
8:33 PM
Screenshots are self explanatory ;)
 
@Mithrandir That gives me a nefarious idea: Step one: create sock puppet account. Step two: make the sock a mod on an SE site. Step three: Profit!
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Uh, how do you plan on executing step two?
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing I somehow fail to see the connection between 2 and 3.
 
@Gryphon Mods can't be deleted, so my sock wouldn't be able to be deleted
@Adám Magic
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Which equals profit, how?
 
8:35 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing But why a sock though? Why not become a mod yourself?
 
Vote abuse?
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir The SE team regularly forgets about PPCG and its people, so I'm used to it by now :P
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir ROs can do that too
 
@Adám Correct me if I'm wrong, but mods cant vote for their own posts
 
@Mego I have been told to tell you to look out for DMs on your Twitter account
 
Anonymous
8:36 PM
@Mithrandir Ok, thanks!
 
@Mithrandir Can mods change vote counts?
 
I don't think so...
 
@Adám nope
 
Why would they be able to "erase" the opinions of other users?
 
They can't see who voted for what I don't think
 
8:38 PM
Ha! Proof that mods cant do something!
 
Anonymous
@cairdcoinheringaahing Well, they have tools for determining vote fraud, so those in combination with other tools could be used to manipulate vote counts to some degree
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing I don't believe it. They're probably just lying about it so we think they're not all powerful.
 
@Mithrandir That's some pretty big buttons right there.
 
Anonymous
@Adám Blame mobile :P
 
Anonymous
8:40 PM
Oh I completely forgot about the refresh profile button
 
@Mego What does it do?
 
Anonymous
@Adám Exactly what it says on the tin
 
Makes you all relaxed and refreshed
 
@Mego I have no idea what refreshing a profile would entail. SE is pretty much real-time, no?
 
Anonymous
Normally profile updates take anywhere from 5-30 minutes to show up in chat. Mods can make it happen immediately.
 
8:41 PM
I used that button to remove Jeff Atwood's diamond.
 
All of those require confirmation dialogs, right? :P
 
@HyperNeutrino I don't think so :P
 
@Mithrandir Huh? Mods can un-mod mods?
 
._. what ._.
 
Anonymous
@HyperNeutrino I think SE is one entire confirmation dialog for mods :P
 
8:41 PM
Sorta
 
Jeff had his diamond removed everywhere
But not in chat
 
Anonymous
@Adám I think he meant he made the unmodding apply immediately in chat
 
And that was causing bugs
So I removed Jeff Atwood's diamond
 
@Mithrandir @_@ What does "Destroy user" do... It seems so crule
 
Anonymous
8:42 PM
Jeff causing bugs... The story of SO.
 
@Mithrandir How? Why?
 
I also employed that button while suspending a moderator the other day
 
@Mr.Xcoder it's used for socks
 
Anonymous
@Mr.Xcoder delete from tbl_users where user_id=$id;
 
@Adám search me. I hear he requested them to be removed.
 
8:43 PM
@Mego It looks even meaner in SQL...
 
I'm pretty sure "Destroy User" does what happened to me :P
 
Anonymous
24
Q: Why does Jeff Atwood no longer have the diamond?

wythagorasI noticed Jeff Atwood's accounts no longer use the diamond symbol. Why does Jeff Atwood no longer have the diamond? Is this a bug? According to jeff-atwood's tag excerpt and some posts on Meta (e.g. Why does Jeff Atwood still have the diamond symbol? ), Jeff Atwood will always retain the honor...

 
Mods can be unmodded by other mods?
 
Wut?! Really?
 
@Mego TIL Jeff has his own tag
 
Anonymous
8:45 PM
@muddyfish Not directly. If a mod team reaches out to SE and asks them, and a majority of them vote for it after discussion in a private chat room, SE will remove the mod.
 
How do you know so much about moderation?
 
Only staff can remove diamonds, except in edge cases like me removing Jeff Atwood's diamond.
 
Penguins know all >:-D
 
I had to do that for jmac too :(
I'm like the semi official former staff diamond remover.
 
Anonymous
@Mr.Xcoder I ran in the PPCG moderator election. I did my research beforehand.
 
8:48 PM
@Mego oh ok I see. I learned something new about you today.
 
Anonymous
@Mr.Xcoder Wait until you learn that I'm not actually a penguin IRL :P
 
Oh, I can edit your about me text too :D
 
Wait until you find out I'm actually a wolf IRL :3
 
@Mego Heresy!
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir goes to double-check about me text
 
8:49 PM
@Mithrandir Aha! So it was you who made me lose my mods powers! :P
 
Anonymous
Oh huh, I never edited my chat about me text
 
@Mego Long way till then :3
 
@Mego TIL about about me.
 
edits it to say noot noot
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir Jokes on you, I did that myself!
 
8:50 PM
Can mods edit people's profiles?
 
@HyperNeutrino yup
 
(whoops french keyboard)
@Mithrandir cool :D (makes sense tho :P)
 
Anonymous
@HyperNeutrino Only on the site that they are a mod on
 
right, makes sense.
 
@HyperNeutrino ן גם אידא שךך איר אןתר
 
Anonymous
8:51 PM
I can remember at least one incident where a mod edited someone's profile to remove spam from their about me text
 
@Mithrandir Can you also delete profile pictures?
 
I want to guess that that's Hebrew?
 
Correction time
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir blah blah blah usual blurb about this being an English-only site
 
I can edit your profile on my site and then copy it to the rest of the network
@Mr.Xcoder yup
 
8:52 PM
@Mithrandir Huh, you have Hebrew keyboard? "N also Ida [garble] town [garble]"
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir Only if the user in question has an account there, though
 
Anonymous
Remind me to delete my lit.se account...
 
@Adám it's supposed to say I do that too :P
 
Officially mods can do waaay to much :P
 
(אני דובר עברית, אבל)
 
8:53 PM
@Mithrandir ן גם אישא אםם
 
@Mr.Xcoder heh
 
Anonymous
@Mr.Xcoder Well when you consider all the nonsense they have to deal with, it's a very good thing that they have so many powers
 
@Mithrandir Well, you do write.
 
@Adám I actually don't have both keyboards simultaneously on my phone so I was just guessing where the English keys were
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir @Adám This is still an English-only site. Please refrain from using languages other than English.
 
8:54 PM
@Mego hence the :P
 
@Mego Uhm, I didn't write anything in any other language.
 
@Mego don't worry. Most of it was gibberish.
The other thing was saying (I speak Hebrew, though.)
 
1 min ago, by Adám
@Mithrandir ן גם אישא אםם
 
@Mr.Xcoder that was gibberish
raises hands my fault
 
@Mr.Xcoder That is pressing the buttons "i do that too" with Hebrew keyboard on. In response to Mith's claim that "ן גם אידא שךך איר אןתר" was "i do that too".
 
8:56 PM
has to go because they wake up parents otherwise - Sya all o/
 
Anonymous
Still, though. Let's use English text (programming languages notwithstanding)
 
@Mithrandir Can you kick yourself?
 
Anonymous
@Adám Only if he's flexible
 
@Adám (I do that all the time is what I wrote, actually)
(roughly)
@Adám nope
 
Anonymous
Mods are immune to kicks (from both other mods and ROs)
 
8:58 PM
Does it ever happen that mods abuse their superpowers?
 
Anonymous
@Adám Sometimes. They get very swiftly dealt with.
 
@Adám yes, and then Shog has a very bad day
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir I think Shog might actually enjoy getting to unmod and suspend misbehaving mods :P
 
@Adám y'see I can't see both keyboards at once, so I was just guessing where the English keys were while typing on the second keyboard. i.stack.imgur.com/CJ6vm.png
 
I wonder what's the worst that's happened
 
9:00 PM
@Mithrandir Shog?
 
@muddyfish Server Fault, early 2015
@Adám Shog9, Community Manager for Stack Overflow Inc
 
I don't know what that would be
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir Is it safe to assume that you won't say any more than that? :P
 
@Mego I can drop a meta link if you want
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir Oh, there's documentation on meta?
 
9:02 PM
52
Q: Abrupt change in moderation staff?

EEAAMyself and a few others just noticed that HopelessN00b and Chris S are no longer listed as moderators. What is the story behind this?

 
Anonymous
I assumed it was one of those things where it was taken care of behind closed curtains and not really said much about
 
43
A: Abrupt change in moderation staff?

Shog9Since HopelessN00b wants to have this discussion in public, I will oblige. I was on the site today because we got a few different emails this past week about it. One was Chris S, stepping down as a moderator - I'll let him talk about that if he wishes to; moderators are volunteers, and are of c...

OK, that may not be the worst but it might be.
Other candidates are a former Math.SE mod, and... I'm not sure who else.
Won't/Will got forcibly demodded after accidentally revealing PII but that was an accident.
I hope that's satisfied your curiosity :p
 
I feel like the SE design team must have watched the Emoji Movie and decided to turn all of our buttons into icons because of it.
7
@Mego Nice reference to FLT.
 
@mbomb007 luckily the destroy user button isn't an icon, or I might accidentally press it trying to figure out what it does ;P
 
9:12 PM
@Mithrandir How many rooms are you in?! Dang.
(non-sequitur)
 
@mbomb007 25, I think
 
probably not as bad as me
 
Unless it was more
 
If only the OEIS challenge were a code-golf; then I'd probably have the gold tag badge by now :P
 
I'm in 26 rooms.
 
9:14 PM
I actually leave rooms when I close them so I'm in one room right now. If I didn't, then I'd probably be in... about 2. So yeah :P
 
I appear to be in 45
 
Two of which are invisible to the general public so you'll only see 24.
@quartata I know someone who's usually in 60 :P
 
Oh that person
 
Random question: I have a friend who wants to become a full-stack developer and wants me to teach them. I know very little about web stuff, but I'm pretty sure I know enough that I could help them learn programming in general and figure out weird road-blocks etc. But I don't know which stack to recommend. Soooo.... What should I recommend to them? ASP? Python and Django? Python and something else? Node? Ruby?
 
Wait is that person a person or a bot? I thought it was a person because it behaves like one in chat??? Confused
 
9:16 PM
@HyperNeutrino he's a person as far as I'm aware
 
He could be an AI, which would explain why he's in The Singularity
 
He pretends to be one for whatever reason
 
I'd prefer to teach something python-based if possible because that's what I'm most familiar with, but I don't want to tell them to learn something that nobody uses because it sucks
 
Like he'd post "Keeping it alive :)" every day in my rooms claiming he's running a bot keep them from freezing (for whatever reason) but the times were random
 
9:18 PM
There is a proposal for a Memes.SE >_>
@quartata just waiting for that one day he typos lol
29
Pastafarianism

Proposed Q&A site for people practicing or interested in Pastafarian philosophy, teaching, and practice.

Currently in definition.

Just... why...
 
That one's been shot down a few times
 
Let's not diss other users
 
Actually like 5 or 6
@Mithrandir apologies
 
@Mithrandir Alright sorry, I'll stop :)
 
or rather apologies to the hybrid wolf cyborg :p
 
9:22 PM
lol
 
@Mego Server Fault has some... interesting history with their mods, although I don't know the full story of any others.
 
Anonymous
9:55 PM
@DJMcMayhem Python + Flask + MySQL + Linux
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir It certainly seems that way. FWIW, I think Shog did the right thing.
 
I'm using python+aiohttp+sqlalchemy for my mini thing
 
10:10 PM
MAN That looks legit.
I'm sure nothing about this advertisement is fake.
 
@ATaco i know right
 
@Mego Any particular reason you say Flask, not Django?
(Keep in mind, this question is coming from someone who's never done full stack development, and is instead just regurgitating the words he knows are relevant :P)
 
Anonymous
@DJMcMayhem Flask doesn't suck and is easier to learn
 
Is it implicitly acceptable to take input as an Array for string based challenges even if the language supports strings?
 
@ATaco No
 
10:17 PM
Curses.
I can save two bytes on This with stack IO.
 

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