The Nineteenth Byte

TuxCopter

11:03 AM

Wow

I copied one file to another folder and Windows' WM died

mınxomaτ

11:21 AM

@Doorknob Ever used corrode? Is it actually useful as a starting point for bigger C projects to transition to Rust?

ASCII-only

Hmm should I implement slicing in Charcoal?

Doorknob

@mınxomaτ Sorry, I wouldn't know, having never used it.

Erik the Outgolfer

@ASCII-only hmm...

New Main Posts

11:46 AM

-2

Q: C program that uses entire x86 instruction set

Write a compact, yet pedagogically useful, C program that uses the entire x86 instruction set. The purpose is to make something that is useful for understanding C, assembly, the x86 instruction set, and the relationship between them. The program that strikes the best balance between compactness a...

c

TuxCopter

@NewMainPosts With the amount of inline assembly required to use all the instruction idk if it will still counts as a C program lol

And also the x86 ISA has a lot of versions and extensions so it's unclear on that

Erik the Outgolfer

@NewMainPosts sorry but pedagogical value is not an objective winning criterion

it's a subjective winning criterion

and subjective means can't be easily decided who will win

Christopher

12:19 PM

If you require a strict output format then you get downvotes. BUT if you tag kovlogmihfihief complexity everything is fine

Erik the Outgolfer

umm...that complexity is how complex is to name a complexity?

Simply Beautiful Art

1:03 PM

:D I managed to make a bigger number and golfed my code down by one byte!

6

A: Largest Number Printable

Ruby: score is approximately (much greater than) fω²+ω(126) where fα(n) is the fast growing hierarchy. Assuming online interpreter where printing the result is automatically done: New entry: def f(a,b=-a,c=a,y=?!.ord)a.times{a+=(c>y)?f(a,b,c-y):(b<-y)?f(a,a):(b<y)?a:f(a,b-y)};a end;f ?~.ord ...

Mr. Xcoder

@SimplyBeautifulArt I love ordinals...

Simply Beautiful Art

@Mr.Xcoder That's cool. I'm interested in the construction of large computable ordinals

Mr. Xcoder

Do you think that a Googol to the power of another Googol can be ever written down (by hand) if you would dedicate you entire lifetime to it?

New Main Posts

-3

Q: Smallest C program that uses the entire x86 instruction set

Create the smallest program that uses the entire x86 instruction set.

c

Simply Beautiful Art

@Mr.Xcoder Nah. You don't have enough atoms in the observable universe

Erik the Outgolfer

1:09 PM

@NewMainPosts BUTTER

Simply Beautiful Art

The observable universe has approximately 10^80 atoms last time I checked

Mr. Xcoder

@SimplyBeautifulArt sorry for the typo

Simply Beautiful Art

@Mr.Xcoder still too big to write down

Mr. Xcoder

@SimplyBeautifulArt The observable universe is kind of small, you know :))

Simply Beautiful Art

@Mr.Xcoder it's bigger than the amount of paper I can write on within my lifetime

Mr. Xcoder

1:11 PM

True as well.

Simply Beautiful Art

@Mr.Xcoder Whats the largest finite number you can name?

Erik the Outgolfer

@SimplyBeautifulArt not mr. but I think that there's no real answer to that

Mr. Xcoder

@SimplyBeautifulArt Irrelevant... But what I can name...

Erik the Outgolfer

(the largest finite number I can name) + 1 is my answer

Mr. Xcoder

Googolduplex

Simply Beautiful Art

1:14 PM

Okay then. What's the largest number you can name in two minutes using only one chat message.

@EriktheOutgolfer :|

Erik the Outgolfer

(the largest finite number I can name in two minutes using only one chat message) + 1

Mr. Xcoder

(Googolduplex + Googolduplex + Googolduplex + ...) * 2 minutes

Simply Beautiful Art

Hm... I need better rules...

Erik the Outgolfer

go to recreational math games maybe?

Mr. Xcoder

If I suddenly won't respond to one of the messages, or it will arrive after 5 mins or so, It's because of my Internet connection

Erik the Outgolfer

1:17 PM

you think you have a bad internet connection?

Mr. Xcoder

Yes, I do.

Erik the Outgolfer

I have even worse than that I think...

Mr. Xcoder

It's working 10 mins and dropping 15 mins/

Erik the Outgolfer

mine randomly drops for no reason...and I have to go to the modem and restart it...

not to mention my speed is 12mbps

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer Me too!

Erik the Outgolfer

1:19 PM

but do you have 12mbps?

Mr. Xcoder

Mine is 9mbps :))

Erik the Outgolfer

ooh...that's even worse than mine

Simply Beautiful Art

@Mr.Xcoder Googolyottaplex

Mr. Xcoder

is there any mathematical notation (in ordinal set theory) that restricts adding ordinals beyond it (some kind of barrier)

Simply Beautiful Art

googology.wikia.com/wiki/Googolyottaplex

@Mr.Xcoder What do you mean?

Mr. Xcoder

1:22 PM

I mean, something you are not allowed to place ordinals after (the last ordinal or sth like this)

Simply Beautiful Art

There is no last ordinal AFAIK

Erik the Outgolfer

@SimplyBeautifulArt googology.wikia.com/wiki/Googoltousaplex

Simply Beautiful Art

Every ordinal is supposed to have a successor

@EriktheOutgolfer googology.wikia.com/wiki/Loader's_number

Erik the Outgolfer

umm I don't think that's a correct link

Simply Beautiful Art

googology.wikia.com/wiki/Loader's_number

:-/

Mr. Xcoder

1:24 PM

How can one define an inaccessible cardinal?

Simply Beautiful Art

googology.wikia.com/wiki/Inaccessible_cardinal

Mr. Xcoder

@SimplyBeautifulArt Thanks, couldn't find a helpful article so far :))

Simply Beautiful Art

:P

@Mr.Xcoder You know the fast growing hierarchy?

Mr. Xcoder

Let me think of a possible translation in my language, it's hard to think in English :))

No, I don't really know much about it @SimplyBeautifulArt

why?

googology.wikia.com/wiki/Fast-growing_hierarchy

Simply Beautiful Art

Its a quick way to turn ordinals into extremely large finite numbers

My code above more or less implements the fast growing hierarchy (sort of)

def f(a,b=-a,c=a,y=?!.ord)a.times{a+=(c>y)?f(a,b,c-y):(b<-y)?f(a,a):(b<y)?a:f(a,b-y)};a end;f ?~.ord

Mr. Xcoder

1:34 PM

CMC: Output a Googol (Code-golf)

Simply Beautiful Art

Nah, that's no fun

Output something larger than Graham's number

Mr. Xcoder

Nah, that's too fun :)

Simply Beautiful Art

D:

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder yeah no fun at all, Jelly 4 bytes: ȷ100

Mr. Xcoder

1e100

Erik the Outgolfer

1:37 PM

or even 3 bytes: ⁵*³

Mr. Xcoder

10e99

polyglot

Simply Beautiful Art

24

Q: Shortest terminating program whose output size exceeds Graham's number

Write the shortest possible program (length measured in bytes) satisfying the following requirements: no input output is to stdout execution eventually terminates total number of output bytes exceeds Graham's number Assume that programs run until "normal" termination on an ideal computer1 abl...

code-golf math busy-beaver

Okx

5*3 = googol

Simply Beautiful Art

More fun

Mr. Xcoder

This gets really boring: No one posted a good challenge in over 10 hours!

PPCG is so slow nowadays.

Simply Beautiful Art

1:40 PM

xD

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder yeah, and most challenges are posted when I'm asleep

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer Same here

Erik the Outgolfer

wait where do you live?

Mr. Xcoder

Romania (UTC +2)

Erik the Outgolfer

oh...I'm in Greece (UTC+2+1)

Simply Beautiful Art

1:42 PM

Perhaps if this doesn't bore you more, code the largest number you can under these rules with the exception that you can use numbers and only linear operators.

Mr. Xcoder

The summer hour is EEST (UTC +3) actually

and the winter EET (UTC +2)

Erik the Outgolfer

@SimplyBeautifulArt so +-*/?

@Mr.Xcoder ooh same timezone

Simply Beautiful Art

@EriktheOutgolfer Yeah, pretty much

Erik the Outgolfer

that's called elementary arithmetic

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer cool

Erik the Outgolfer

1:44 PM

and of course can be reduced to -/

Mr. Xcoder

I am nearly done with my programming language

The syntax is awful

Simply Beautiful Art

x.x

Mr. Xcoder

Full codepage:

Potato44

does anyone here know why these case statements produce diffrenet results in ksh?

a=$(printf \\x00);
case $b[1]${#a} in *1*)echo 50;;*)echo 58;;esac
case [1]${#a} in *1*)echo 50;;*)echo 58;;esac
echo $b[1]${#a}|hexdump -C --
echo [1]${#a}|hexdump -C --

https://tio.run/##yy7O@P8/0VZFo6AoM68kTSEmpsLAQNOaKzmxOFVBJSnaMFalWjmxViEzT0HLUEszNTkjX8HUwNoaxrSwtk4tTkyGqCdaNZiHML0mI7UipTS3QEHXWUFXFyKLXe7/fwA

Mr. Xcoder

"ƒ" : "for N in ",
"∑" : "while ",
"ˆ" : "if ",
"´" : "else:",
"`" : "elif ",
"¥" : "True",
"˜" : "False",
"»" : "read()",
"Æ" : "readInt()",
"«" : "write(",
"ß" : ".split(",
"Ω" : ".split()",
"œ" : "excludeFromString(",
"π" : "pi()",
"ë" : "e()",
"∫" : "feigenbaum()",
"©" : "sum(",
"®" : "reduced(",
"µ" : "map(",
"≈" : "filter(",
"^" : "isSqure(",
"√" : "sqrt(",
"†" : "str(",
"¬" : "list(",
"∞" : "range(",
"ø" : "len(",
"ﬁ" : "nthFibonacci(",
"ﬂ" : "firstNFibonacci(",
"ç" : ".count(",
"∂" : "del(",

Hi there

What do you think ^^^

Simply Beautiful Art

1:49 PM

@Mr.Xcoder The integral should be a real integral

Mr. Xcoder

They're not very related ... Just put those all in there @SimplyBeautifulArt

Simply Beautiful Art

:P

Mr. Xcoder

Any challenge ideas?

Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder if I had any I would have posted it

Mr. Xcoder

I really want to make a new one related to strings, but I do not know what to start off with.

Leaky Nun

2:00 PM

I haven't posted any challenge since 6 days ago.

Mr. Xcoder

@LeakyNun I know that... But maybe someone else has ideas but is too lazy to put them all together right now

@LeakyNun actually 7

Leaky Nun

codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/82938/…

@WheatWizard ^ you've been working on it since last year.

Wheat Wizard

I haven't been on the site for a year

I should do that though

Wheat Wizard

2:22 PM

@LeakyNun codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/96902/56656

Leaky Nun

@WheatWizard why non-competing?

Wheat Wizard

Have we abolished non-competing yet?

Mr. Xcoder

Are challenges where people are supposed to choose between two / three tasks off-topic?

Is there any meta consensus on that?

Jan Dvorak

such as "nth element in series, or first n elements in series, or the entire series as an infinite stream"?

Mr. Xcoder

2:37 PM

@JanDvorak Yes, kind of... I changed my mind anyways, forget it.

Erik the Outgolfer

who abused stars again?

New Meta Posts

2:54 PM

0

Q: What to do about BBC micro:bit?

BBC micro:bit is a piece of hardware wich allows to to run code, such as Python or Javascript, that is custom made for the micro:bit chip. However, it in itself is not a programming language. Instead, it allows people to use 4 different coding languages to manipulate it: Python, with a custom ...

discussion answers

New Meta Posts

3:32 PM

0

Q: How do we count bytes in BBC micro:bit languages?

BBC micro:bit is a piece of hardware wich allows to to run code, such as Python or Javascript, that is custom made for the micro:bit chip. However, it in itself is not a programming language. Instead, it allows people to use 4 different coding languages to manipulate it: Python, with a custom ...

discussion scoring

totallyhuman

what

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Let's learn some Chemistry! chemistrycode-golfkolmogorov-complexity string Andrew is a chemist, interested in the acidity of solutions. After months of research (Google is not his friend), he came up with the following table* regarding the human-readable level of acidity in terms of the pH (pote...

totallyhuman

3:52 PM

A language with the memory on a beehive layout

user165474

@totallyhuman that sounds like an interesting idea. reminds me of hexagony (but I think that's IP movement)

Arjun

Hello World

user165474

darnit I regret not using sympy in my programming language from the start, now I will have about 100 bugs after switching
>.<

Arjun

Where does PIP install modules?

muddyfish

in the installation directory for python

you can import the module and do module.__file__

and that will return the file of the module

user165474

4:04 PM

Does anyone know how to use different base systems in SymPy?

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Only HeLlO WoRLd is allowed. We are all familiar that "Hello World" is the 1st introductory program that most people learn when they first start to program. Then programmers go on to greater and better programs. But who says they have to go on to greater and better programs? What if all other pr...

totallyhuman

4:22 PM

hmm

although i currently have no idea on how i would implement that

Lembik

hi all

totallyhuman

hi

Lembik

Say you have n numbers in an array, and you want to compute the product of every subset of size n -1

you can do this easily by multiplying all the numbers together and then dividing by each one in turn

user165474

find the total product and divide that by each element

user165474

darn you ninja'd me :(

Lembik

4:26 PM

but how quickly can you do it if you don't want to do any division?

that is what is the minimum number of multiplications?

Erik the Outgolfer

n²-n I'd say

so O(n²)...

user165474

CMC: Given an array, compute the array of products of each subset with one less element such that the element-wise product of the two arrays has all equal elements.

user165474

Jelly, 2 bytes: P:

user165474

Alternatively, P÷

Leaky Nun

"CMC: Given an array, transform each element to the product of the other elements"

Lembik

4:29 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer I think that might be pessimistic

Erik the Outgolfer

I think that's how O works though

user165474

@LeakyNun Yeah that's a lot more clear :P

Leaky Nun

I believe that O(n) is possible but I have no idea how.

Erik the Outgolfer

@LeakyNun already posted

Leaky Nun

I believe so because I have seen a challenge requiring O(n)

Lembik

4:30 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer I mean I think O(n) might be possible

@LeakyNun cool

Phoenix

@LeakyNun Take product of entire list, for each element divide the large product by that element.

user165474

I think it's possible with division allowed but I don't think so otherwise.

user165474

@Phoenix ninja'd twice lol

Phoenix

Runs in 2N

Lembik

@Phoenix yes I want to do it without divisions

Leaky Nun

4:30 PM

@Phoenix what if there is 0?

user165474

ooo

user165474

forgot about that

Phoenix

@HyperNeutrino I literally just joined, sorry.

user165474

then replace /x with /(x or1)

Erik the Outgolfer

an O(n) algorithm would be "divide large product with each element"

user165474

4:31 PM

@Phoenix lol it's fine just saying that you were ninja'd :P

Erik the Outgolfer

Jelly, 2 bytes: P:

user165474

@EriktheOutgolfer also ninja'd

user165474

P÷ is more accurate but P: works as well for integers.

Erik the Outgolfer

P÷ is more prone to eternally damning floating point errors...:(

user165474

Then use M

user165474

4:34 PM

(the programming language)

Phoenix

CMC: Convert each element of an array to the running product up to the element. That is, the product of every element left of it and itself from the original array.

user165474

@Phoenix Jelly, 2 bytes: ×\

user165474

I think

Erik the Outgolfer

Jelly, 4 bytes: ;\P€

Arjun

Namaste

totallyhuman

4:36 PM

lambda l:map(lambda a:reduce(int.__mul__,l,1)/a,l)
from itertools import*

Lembik

no algorithms loving people in ... :(

user165474

@totallyhuman replace lambda x,y:x*y with int.__mul__

user165474

or float.__mul__

Phoenix

@HyperNeutrino nope

Oh wait I typed a x and not a ×

Dur

user165474

@Phoenix yes

user165474

4:37 PM

lol

user165474

@totallyhuman why do you need itertools

totallyhuman

for reduce()

Erik the Outgolfer

no that's functools not itertools

Lembik

maybe it could be a fastest-algorithm challenge

totallyhuman

um

user165474

4:38 PM

oh wait py3 doesn't have reduce

user165474

wait reduce is right-to-left???

Erik the Outgolfer

@totallyhuman that's Python 2 btw

totallyhuman

oh wait

i'm an idiot

Phoenix

It doesn't return the correct result.

Helka Homba

@HyperNeutrino you can import functools.reduce

user165474

4:40 PM

@HelkaHomba I meant as a builtin

totallyhuman

>.> python's modules

Phoenix

Not as bad as Java packages

import org.apache.commons.lang3.*

totallyhuman

>>> True, False = False, True
>>> True
False
>>> False
True

i love how python2 rolls with anything

Phoenix

You can redefine None in Python 1

Mendeleev

this kid has some strange ideas about work

totallyhuman

4:43 PM

o0

Helka Homba

@HyperNeutrino Make a Python 3.1415926... that just has all the standard libraries imported by default.

Mendeleev

> I am not doing any work and you are implying that I won't get 50% of money

srsly?

Phoenix

@HelkaHomba Why just the standard ones?

totallyhuman

lambda l:map(lambda a:reduce(int.__mul__,l)/a,l) updated

user165474

@HelkaHomba ಠ_ಠ why...???

Mendeleev

4:44 PM

@HelkaHomba Pi-thon?

Phoenix

I just want a java with java.util.* imported by default.

Helka Homba

@Phoenix I mean docs.python.org/3/library, but throw numpy &c. in there too

Phoenix

@totallyhuman I think you might be better off with array comprehension over map

Helka Homba

@HyperNeutrino everything will be at your fingertips for golfing

Erik the Outgolfer

@totallyhuman lambda l:map(reduce(int.__mul__,l).__div__,l)

user165474

4:46 PM

@Phoenix unless you have a built-in method, using list comprehensions is almost always better than mapping :P

user165474

@HelkaHomba that actually doesn't sound like a terrible idea until naming conflicts

Helka Homba

yeah

Phoenix

@HelkaHomba That's what I meant too, why not include numpy and such.

totallyhuman

ಠ_ಠ you guys are too golfy for me

Erik the Outgolfer

@HelkaHomba webbrowser.open and open will conflict I'm afraid, unless you keep namespaces as-is

and the latter is more useful...but the former will take over...

Phoenix

4:47 PM

Let's keep it at import *, and not import *.*

user165474

  File "<stdin>", line 1
    import *
           ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Mendeleev

@Phoenix Why not both?

totallyhuman

@HyperNeutrino lambda l:[reduce(int.__mul__,l)/i for i in l] same byte count

Erik the Outgolfer

1 min ago, by Erik the Outgolfer

@HelkaHomba webbrowser.open and open will conflict I'm afraid, unless you keep namespaces as-is

Mendeleev

oic

Erik the Outgolfer

4:48 PM

other conflicts possible too

Phoenix

@HyperNeutrino Obviously it doesn't work in native python, that's why we're discussing a new python.

user165474

oh ok lol

Mendeleev

Ruby > python anyway lol

Leaky Nun

Guys.

totallyhuman

ಠ_ಠ_ಠ

Leaky Nun

4:49 PM

18 mins ago, by Leaky Nun

@Phoenix what if there is 0?

Phoenix

Ye?

user165474

lol

Leaky Nun

CMC: consider the 0 case.

totallyhuman

considered

Phoenix

I don't think the running product changes

Erik the Outgolfer

4:49 PM

@totallyhuman easier said than done

Helka Homba

@Mendeleev I might agree if I could ever figure how to get a plain function in Ruby (and not call it) -.-

user165474

@LeakyNun lambda l:[reduce(int.__mul__,l)/(i or 1)for i in l]

Lembik

there must be an O(n) solution I feel

Mendeleev

@HelkaHomba What do you mean?

Phoenix

Yeah, just replace in the original array and multiply current element by previous element.

Lembik

4:52 PM

shall I pose it as a fastest-algorithm challenge?

user165474

@Lembik which one, running or exclude?

Helka Homba

@Mendeleev I guess I mean method(:f) to get the function object, as opposed to just f in python. Sometimes convenient but often weird that Ruby functions don't need parens

Lembik

@HyperNeutrino sorry I am not sure what you mean

I only asked one question

user165474

@Lembik right sorry the other one was phoenix's sorry

Arthur

hi

Erik the Outgolfer

4:54 PM

@Lembik restricted-complexity is more appropriate...

Lembik

@EriktheOutgolfer why is that?

Mendeleev

@HelkaHomba There's always lambdas... I don't do functional programming very often

Lembik

I am not restricting the complexity

Arthur

@Lembik If you don't want to pose it, may I?

Lembik

@Arthur sure!

Erik the Outgolfer

4:55 PM

@Lembik because you want an O(n) solution, but fastest-algorithm will allow for the O(n²) solution...fastest-algorithm restricted-complexity restricted-source

Helka Homba

@Mendeleev I do like how printing in ruby is just p. Saves ages typing

Lembik

@EriktheOutgolfer no.. I want the smallest count of arithmetic operations

@EriktheOutgolfer if the winning entry is O(n^2) so be it

Erik the Outgolfer

@Lembik atomic-code-golf then

Phoenix

@HelkaHomba Unless output has newlines in it.

Mendeleev

@HelkaHomba That's not printing. p x is basically puts x.inspect

Lembik