The Nineteenth Byte

Okx

12:01 PM

not any more

Leaky Nun

@Dennis Is the time used to compile the program included in the time for C?

trichoplax

@LeakyNun Since avoiding gender bias doesn't restrict the opportunity for writing interesting challenges, I can't understand referring to it as an "invasion". No one is suggesting a rule against using "he", it's just a comment making a recommendation.

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Bastion Breach Stolen with permission from the minigame with the same title from Angels with Scaly Wings Introduction and rules There are two players Both players receive a suit of cards (2-9, ace and face cards) and another is randomly shuffled into a public zone. The players then proceed to...

muddyfish

^ could someone review that please?

Leaky Nun

@trichoplax That's a pointless recommendation to me.

trichoplax

12:17 PM

@LeakyNun Fair enough. I'm just pointing out that there's a difference between not valuing a recommendation and suggesting it is an invasion. I'm not giving an opinion either way on the content of the recommendation

Leaky Nun

I'm not suggesting that the recommendation is an invasion. Also, by "invade" I really mean something like "get into" or "become a part of"

And the subject of my sentence is the impersonal "PC" (political correctness)

which, in my opinion, nobody should value.

@trichoplax

Destructible Lemon

jeez man its just changing some pronouns

Leaky Nun

@DestructibleLemon we are just discussing

Destructible Lemon

I think that the way it is worded is a little bit awkward

Okx

close this codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/127043/…

trichoplax

12:27 PM

I'm not looking to have a discussion on which style of English is better. Like most topics there are extreme views on either side, neither of which seem warranted. I see it like local dialects. I write in UK English, but if I edit someone else's post I write in US English to match the post where relevant.

Leaky Nun

I'm not talking about style of English. I'm talking about political correctness.

Destructible Lemon

I don't see where all the hate for political correctness comes from

the examples you get when people cite why it is bad are all strawmen

trichoplax

It comes from the fact that people have different lines between what is PC and what is common decency. Some people use the term to mean reasonable behaviour, others to mean arbitrary or even counterproductive rules. It's probably easier to have a discussion about a specific example rather than the general concept of PC, which leads to different people having different interpretations of what is actually being discussed

New Main Posts

0

Q: My puzzle about "MM_LOMETRIC" map mode in Windows programming

My code is shown below. When I run my code, the string "abc" is shown normally, but its position of top left corner is not 10mm to the left or top of client area(I have measured the distance with a ruler). According to the description of the help document about "MM_LOMETRIC" map mode, it should b...

c

Leaky Nun

@DestructibleLemon Let's talk about this case then.

Really? Gender-neutral pronoun?

Destructible Lemon

12:34 PM

well, they already gave a reason

so then that shifts the ol' burden of proof to you

why not?

Leaky Nun

1. there are no standard gender-neutral 3rd person pronouns. "They" is not standard, and other pronouns are plainly made-up.
2. using "he" harms women in STEM fields? Really?

Destructible Lemon

also tbh I think the issue here is that the tone is a reprimanding one? I don't think they intended that

1. trivial, this is not really an argument

2. pooh-pooh fallacy

I like it because of its funny name

Pooh-pooh

A pooh-pooh (also styled as poo-poo) is a fallacy in informal logic that consists of dismissing an argument as being unworthy of serious consideration. Scholars generally characterize the fallacy as a rhetorical device in which the speaker ridicules an argument without responding to the substance of the argument. == Definition == Authors have characterized the fallacy as a form of a straw man fallacy, where an argument is described as inherently worthless or undeserving of serious attention. Some authors have also described the fallacy as the act of "ridicul[ing]" an argument as though it were...

Leaky Nun

@DestructibleLemon which pronoun would you use then?

Wheat Wizard

They is pretty standard

Leaky Nun

2. I leave the burden to proof to him (or you) that using "he" harms women in STEM fields.

@WheatWizard it sounds unnatural to me.

Wheat Wizard

12:39 PM

You can also restructure sentences to avoid pronouns altogether

Destructible Lemon

@LeakyNun "they"

Wheat Wizard

This seems like a non-issue

Leaky Nun

@WheatWizard too much work

very unnatural

Wheat Wizard

One is also a gender neutral pronoun, but it probably sounds weirder than they

Destructible Lemon

"he" doesn't seriously harm women in stem necessarily, but maybe it just reinforces an image in peoples heads of the male programmer. Again, I want to go back to the "why not?" argument

Leaky Nun

12:43 PM

it's unnecessary and pointless and too much work.

Destructible Lemon

isn't there ctrl f? :P

Wheat Wizard

If you don't want to do the work, don't, someone else will, its not really that hard

Destructible Lemon

I feel like this would be a lot easier to argue if it weren't for english and it's lack of gender neutral pronouns

Leaky Nun

its :p

Wheat Wizard

they is a perfectly fine geneder neutral pronoun

Doorknob

12:45 PM

@LeakyNun "Oh, yeah, I would do my part in preventing the perpetuation of sexism and gender stereotypes, but changing three or four words here and there is just too much work."

Dismissing the issue as "pointless" seems to me to be... trivializing it, at the very least.

Destructible Lemon

@LeakyNun its dehumanising! :P

Leaky Nun

@Doorknob "too much work" is only a third of my sentence. My main point is that using "he" does not prevent the perpetuation of sexism

...and gender stereotypes

@DestructibleLemon No, I was correcting "it's" to "its"

Destructible Lemon

@Doorknob doorknob the entire argument by leaky nun is that it doesn't do anything

@LeakyNun o

Leaky Nun

@DestructibleLemon precisely.

trichoplax

If English didn't already have gender incorporated into its pronouns, nobody would be taking this conversation seriously

Leaky Nun

12:47 PM

@trichoplax I agree.

But then, almost every language that I know, has gendered 3rd person pronoun

Destructible Lemon

I think that the use of he as gender neutral pronoun is problematic

Leaky Nun

My point is that, it doesn't do anything, where "it" refers to any of the following two:
1. using "he"
2. using a gender-neutral 3rd person singular pronoun

trichoplax

I think we're all agreed the gender mention is unnecessary, we just differ on how much effort is worthwhile to avoid it

Destructible Lemon

@LeakyNun I think you don't understand how easily the mind can be influenced by really simple things

Kritixi Lithos

what, this conversation is still going on after 1 hour

Wheat Wizard

12:49 PM

@LeakyNun Several people have voiced their concerns with using "he", changing it definitely has an effect at least on them. It would at least end this argument.

Destructible Lemon

example: a person is more likely to describe a person as a good person if offered a warm drink instead of a cold drink because of the connotations of those words

I would cite this but I don't have the book on me

Kritixi Lithos

if you care about the article post a comment suggesting an edit, if you don't then just ignore it

trichoplax

> what, this conversation is still going on after ~~1 hour~~ several centuries

Dennis

@LeakyNun Yes. There's not reasonably way to time only a part of the request.

Destructible Lemon

I think it was called brain bugs. well that was part of the title anyway

Leaky Nun

12:50 PM

@WheatWizard I only see several people voicing their concerns with using "he" on other people. My point is, they don't know other people.

Although I also don't know other people.

@DestructibleLemon interesting

Wheat Wizard

@LeakyNun I'm not sure what you are saying

Leaky Nun

@WheatWizard The comment is saying that using "he" harms women in STEM fields. My point is that I see no reason why it would.

What are the concerns that several people voiced?

Wheat Wizard

Even if there is only a possibility it harms women in STEM, that seems like a good motivation to do, what is essentially nothing, to prevent that.

Its a tiny change that may make no difference, but may make a big difference, I don't see why we shouldn't make it

Destructible Lemon

I think we missed out my argument @LeakyNun. if a person can be influenced by the type of drink they're having, I imagine something more direct as "he" would be more influential

Dennis

At least English sort of has a gender-neutral pronouns. If I never see the German or Spanish equivalents of he/she, his/her, and him/her again, it will be too soon.

Leaky Nun

12:57 PM

@Dennis how would you say it in German/Spanish?

Okx

No, I think Spanish is more gender-neutral than English.

Leaky Nun

@Okx I don't see anything other than él/ella...

oh, you can drop the pronoun.

Dennis

@Okx It certainly isn't. Even objects have gender.

Erik the Outgolfer

french is more gender-neutral then...:P

Destructible Lemon

@Dennis yeah I can at least be thankful we don't have that kind of baloney

I mean we have the "all cats are girls" trope enough already

Leaky Nun

12:59 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer what would you say in French?

@DestructibleLemon we once had :p

Destructible Lemon

ok I guess I'll have to be going soon

Erik the Outgolfer

@LeakyNun everything is male or female you can't drop the pronoun

Leaky Nun

maybe a millennium ago though

@EriktheOutgolfer so you meant less gender-neutral?

Erik the Outgolfer

I was joking lol

Dennis

@LeakyNun er/sie, sein/ihr, ihm/ihr, and ihn/ihr in German; él/ella and le/la in Spanish.

Leaky Nun

1:01 PM

and lo/la

@DestructibleLemon I think I would have to agree.

Okx

Well, objects having gender can hardly be offensive to people.

It's not like you're being stereotypical, it's how the language works.

Leaky Nun

@Dennis so you can't say a male cat in German?

Dennis

Kater if it's male, Katze if it's female.

Leaky Nun

I never heard Kater

but then, my German isn't particularly good.

Destructible Lemon

@LeakyNun I can say I did something today!

Dennis

1:09 PM

@LeakyNun It's not common to use the gender-specific noun for animals without obvious sexual dimorphism, but some people take offense if you get it wrong for their pets...

Leaky Nun

@Dennis I see.

Dennis

Because, you know, the cat cares.

9

Destructible Lemon

I was going to go to bed but now I'm too angry about the lack of socks in this house to sleep

my feet are cold

Okx

move to the uk it's 2pm here then you don't need to worry about going to sleep now :D

Dennis

You'd still have to worry about cold feet though.

Okx

1:14 PM

it's nice and warm here too

Erik the Outgolfer

at least when I sleep I don't wear any clothes summertime it's getting too hot...Greek summer=:/

and then even if you're completely nude still too hot

even without the blanket I use

Destructible Lemon

seriously though I mean I bring socks here and leave socks here and stuff but WHY AREN'T THERE ANY SOCKS! I checked where they might be once I take them off but they aren't there?

@EriktheOutgolfer ok um

Erik the Outgolfer

CMC: knit socks for Destructible

Kritixi Lithos

@EriktheOutgolfer relevant codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/108049/41805

Okx

@EriktheOutgolfer English, 2 bytes: no

muddyfish

1:24 PM

I just noticed I have 2 KOTHs in the sandbox now

Erik the Outgolfer

@Okx too hot?

New Main Posts

1:38 PM

-1

Q: Solve the Grid (fastest-algo)

The grid P has Q rows and Q columns where each cell contains a value in range [0,Q2 − 1] and all values are DISTINCT. Here 0 denotes an empty cell. When a customer enters the store he/she plays with the grid and rearrange the values in the grid. So now its Danny's job to rearrange the grid to loo...

fastest-code fastest-algorithm

Jonathan Allan

2:11 PM

Head -> Wall; Head -> Wall.

Kritixi Lithos

what?

Jonathan Allan

then how will I judge which is the winner ? — Dark0 5 mins ago

user165474

@DestructibleLemon if you are sick previously and then get sick from your own past sickness (actually not sure that works because I think you'd develop immunity to that depending on what illness it was).

New Main Posts

2:27 PM

0

Q: The Spain license plates game

This question is based on a question I asked in Spanish language. Yes, I asked for an algorithm in Spanish Language. :) In Spain, current license plates have this pattern: 1234 XYZ where XYZ are three consonants taken from the full set of Spanish consonants (except the 'Ñ', I think). ...

code-golf string search

caird coinheringaahing

2:53 PM

I will offer a bounty to anyone who can answer a non-trivial question with my language Add++. The amount of the bounty depends on the difficulty of the challenge e.g Add two numbers wouldn't be worth a bounty but Complete a Working Game of Tetris in Conway's Game of Life would be worth multiple 500 rep bounties.

Okx

but how do i do something in game of life in add++?

caird coinheringaahing

@Okx you become Jon Skeet

9

Okx

i... uh... what?

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Window overlap I have yet to get with the times and get a multi-monitor set up. For now, it's really frustrating when I'm working and I have a ton of windows open that are completely hidden behind other windows. To make things worse, I'm still using a 1024x768 monitor. Your task is to take a li...

user165474

3:21 PM

Jon Skeet, Reading, United Kingdom

954k 561 6996 7801

c# java .net linq generics asp.net xml

Okx

i know who jon skeet is

user165474

Oh okay.

Okx

it just puzzles me how to become him

user165474

Devote your entire life to getting gold badges and reputation.

Kritixi Lithos

@Okx but you don't know who the Jon Skeet is. Nobody does

Riker

3:22 PM

@HyperNeutrino huh, I thought he broke 1M by now

oh nvm that's only SO rep

stackexchange.com/users/11683/jon-skeet?tab=accounts

user165474

Apparently not quite. If you look at his SO profile, you'll see that his rep gain seems to be slowing down very slightly.

user165474

@Riker Is he the only or first user to get 1m network rep?

Riker

well he's got 1025k abouts if you count mse

@HyperNeutrino only

user165474

Ah okay.

Kritixi Lithos

Jon Skeet's only PPCG submission

user165474

3:24 PM

:I It's been about 15 hours since UTC start of today and Jon Skeet already has 215 rep gain lol

user165474

gasp Jon Skeet on PPCG? :D

Okx

215 rep in 15 hours

something's fishy...

user165474

@Okx He has like 20+ answers already

user165474

lol Jon Skeet gains 200+ rep almost every day

user165474

33777 answer :o

user165474

3:27 PM

Wait nvm he writes an average of 10 answers per day since he his account was created

Leaky Nun

1 answer and 411 rep

well played

user165474

well technically you could say it was only 310 because assoc + 1

user165474

but that's still a lot

user165474

that's more than my most upvoted answer >.<

Leaky Nun

75.8k rep in meta stack exchange

Kritixi Lithos

3:29 PM

@HyperNeutrino you just left the chatroom and rejoined immediately

are you on macOS?

Lembik

3:44 PM

hi rust people.. what do I have to do to compile codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/127038/9206 ?

Leaky Nun

@Lembik windows?

Lembik

not this time!

linux

I assume I need to make a Cargo.toml?

(I hate rust for this reason and I don't even know anything about it yet)

@LeakyNun any idea?

Leaky Nun

no idea. I just wanted to you to specify more details so that rust people can help you more easily

Lembik

thanks :)

I worked it out

Leaky Nun

@Phoenix lol, it's Purdue; perdue is a French word meaning lost

user165474

3:54 PM

@KritixiLithos But I didn't rejoin............

user165474

???

user165474

I'm on Linux not MacOS

user165474

@LeakyNun MSE votes give/take rep. MSE is like a regular SE site. Rather than being the only Meta site without a main, think about it as the only main site without a Meta.

Leaky Nun

@HyperNeutrino I see

New Main Posts

2

Q: Code-Macro-Challenge: Solve the CMCs!

In this challenge, the task is to solve as many CMCs (Code Mini-Challenges) as you can, that will be sorted depending on their difficulty level. The list of Challenges can be found below. Specs All the CMCs must be solved in different languages, and two major versions of the same language coun...

string number code-challenge fibonacci

Kritixi Lithos

4:10 PM

@HyperNeutrino oh okay, I've noticed that in chatrooms in Google Docs (and Sheets and the like), people sometimes spontaneously leave and join the chatroom, and I've noticed that those people are all on macOS

New Main Posts

-1

Q: 10 Clickbaits you can't resist

10 Clickbaits you can't resist Write a program/function/script that takes a natural number i from 1 to 10 as input and outputs the URL of the Question with the i th most votes on the Code Golf Portal Like in https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions when you click on votes. There are no st...

code-golf internet

LegionMammal978

If you became a retired multimillionaire, would you finally buy all the Lego sets?

Downgoat

4:54 PM

:O new strawpoll ui

@LegionMammal978 do I have to build it

LegionMammal978

@Downgoat Nah, different site

@Downgoat You get to

Downgoat

@LegionMammal978 my life is a lie they are two strawpoll sites :OOO

@LegionMammal978 :O can I change answer to yes, sounds fun

Dennis

SO blog blasphemy

user165474

@Dennis Are you a tab-indenting person?

totallyhuman

oh noes

Dennis

5:04 PM

@HyperNeutrino I am.

user165474

@Dennis Yay :D Same here :P But Atom keeps turning my tabs into spaces >.<

user165474

Wait no it doesn't, never mind.

Dennis

You can turn that off.

user165474

It turns my spaces into tabs lol :D

user165474

ok now time to go back to ugly python code and trying to fix stupid bug >.<

totallyhuman

5:07 PM

reminder to update atom for atom on linux users

>.> i totally forgot for the last two versions

feersum

Reminder to delete atom for all atom users.

user165474

@feersum English, 2 bytes: no

user165474

Should I remove tuples and sets from my program for my own sanity? It seems that that's causing problems because I have similar code in a bunch of places that I can't compress into one function/class >.<

totallyhuman

ಠ_ಠ

@HyperNeutrino wonder what language prettify thinks it is

user165474

@totallyhuman good question (/wonderance (? idk what the word is (if there is such a word (also too many brackets 0/10 (to me)))))...

totallyhuman

5:12 PM

ಠ_ಠ_ಠ

at least you closed all of them

user165474

yes (cc @MDXF)

user165474

ಠ_ಠ the command that's meant to expand the top of the stack to fill individual spots on the stack is turning everything into a tuple ಠ_ಠ

user165474

@cairdcoinheringaahing You've gone through 10 usernames in 3 months????

totallyhuman

wonders if he should add sanity to his code

user165474

Who?

totallyhuman

5:33 PM

me

i was speaking in third-person lol

betseg

SE chat should have /me

MD XF

5:57 PM

@HyperNeutrino What was that about?

Downgoat

6:15 PM

Quetion: does x^(1/n) only refer to the principle root?

would I need to do x^(±1/n)

Leaky Nun

@Downgoat depends on you, really.

@Downgoat I don't think this is enough.

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino I couldn't make up my mind (shrug emoticon)

Downgoat

@LeakyNun :| I don't think it'll work you'd have to do ±x^(1/n) but at that point I might as well use normal root

Leaky Nun

52 secs ago, by Leaky Nun

@Downgoat I don't think this is enough.

By the fundamental theorem of algebra, a polynomial with $n$ degrees have $n$ complex roots up to multiplicity.

In particular, $a^n - x = 0$ has $n$ roots.

LegionMammal978

6:32 PM

@Downgoat In pretty much every definition, yes

Leaky Nun

AFAICT, in Wolframalpha you can choose between two kinds of roots for $x^{1/3}$.

LegionMammal978

IIRC, the roots consist of (-1)^(0/n)*x^(1/n), (-1)^(1/n)*x^(1/n), (-1)^(n/n)*x^(1/n)

Leaky Nun

I don't think so.

LegionMammal978

Just make sure not to take that with a grain of salt

It was something like that, I think

Leaky Nun

I think the roots consist of 1^(1/n)*x^(1/n), ..., 1^(n/n)*x^(1/n), where 1^r = exp(2irπ).

LegionMammal978

6:35 PM

^ listen to that guy, he's more correct

Mr. Xcoder

6:46 PM

Sorry for the crappy challenge I posted a couple of minutes ago, it was a total mess! I'm better off using the Sandbox...

MATHS question: Is 0/0 undeterminable by the mathematical community consensus or does it still cause degree between experts in the field?

Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder the former.

Mr. Xcoder

@LeakyNun Oh, thanks. I had to deal with this in a Physics problem involving lens.

Leaky Nun

On a somewhat related note: some people treat 0^0 as undefined while other treat it as 1 for convenience in some fields.

@Mr.Xcoder physics is not maths.

Would you like to ask your question here? I may be able to help you answer your question in a more specific context.

Mr. Xcoder

@LeakyNun I know

@LeakyNun It is not needed

Leaky Nun

Not your physics question per se.

but about the 0/0 question.

Mr. Xcoder

6:50 PM

I'm quite messy right now, what do you mean?

Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder what inspired you to ask about 0/0?

Mr. Xcoder

What happens when you place an object at the focal point of convergent lens

Leaky Nun

u=f, v=infty.

Mr. Xcoder

It seems like the image is formed to infinity

Leaky Nun

1/u + 1/v = 1/f
1/f + 1/v = 1/f
1/v = 0
v = infty

@Mr.Xcoder that is correct

MD XF

6:56 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing I have some questions about Add++

Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder how is that related to 0/0?

Mr. Xcoder

When the focal distance is 0.

Just a curiosity of mine, doesn't make any sense

Leaky Nun

interesting.

let's examine the cases where u is positive.

Jim

@Mr.Xcoder I did not give up, I am working on it. Will post it in the sandbox in a few days.

Mr. Xcoder

Still the same

Leaky Nun

6:59 PM

1/u + 1/v = 1/0
1/u is finite, so 1/v must be infinite, so v=0.

Mr. Xcoder

@Jim I advice you not to do so

Leaky Nun

Now, if you set u=0, then a glitch occurs and the end of the world arrives.

Transcript for