The Nineteenth Byte

7:00 AM

@Fatalize One could argue that that's two APL+2, while . is a single keystroke ;-)

@Fatalize Yeah, that's what people say, so we keep it on life-support.

@Fatalize It must be pretty good indeed when people like it despite its awful looks. Don't judge a tutorial by its cover, I guess.

Fatalize

"a variable name cannot be longer than 76 characters. (Big restriction, right?)"

When you come from Java… :p

Adám

@Fatalize That might have been the case on the ancient system it was written for, but Dyalog allows very long names.

@Fatalize I just created a variable with a 100 million character name in Dyalog APL.

Fatalize

Well in that case the tutorial is indeed ancient

Adám

@Fatalize Told ya' ;-)

@Fatalize What's the max var name length in Java?

Fatalize

apparently 65535

The thing is that in Java you often have ridiculously verbose names

Adám

7:12 AM

@Fatalize The how do you store hi-res videos in your variable names? :-)

Fatalize

Not sure that's a very good use of variable names :p

isaacg

In Pyth, the maximum length of a variable name is 1.

Adám

@Fatalize Meh, arbitrary restrictions. I think C only goes up to 256 or so. Poor German programmers.

Leaky Nun

@isaacg hi!

isaacg

Hi

Leaky Nun

7:14 AM

I rarely see you around

Adám

@isaacg In I, it is "0" – I doesn't have variables. Only functions.

Fatalize

Now that I think of it, Brachylog also has unlimited variable name length

Leaky Nun

@Adám what is I?

@Fatalize how?

Adám

@LeakyNun github.com/mlochbaum/ILanguage#the-i-programming-language

Leaky Nun

@Adám did you create it?

Fatalize

7:16 AM

@LeakyNun Well for example: tio.run/…

Any string of uppercase letters is a variable

Adám

@isaacg As for a real world practical language, I think old TI-BASIC also only has 1 char vars.

Leaky Nun

@Fatalize is it really necessary to have so many As in your example...

Fatalize

Well no

Adám

@LeakyNun No, my colleague did.

Fatalize

The point is just that earlier in Brachylog, you had only 26 variables per rule

Now you have an infinite amount

(Which is pretty much always useless but just in case)

Leaky Nun

7:18 AM

but you can only put those long variables in the argument, right?

Fatalize

Well yes

For example you can call the argument OUTPUT

or LEAKYNUN

Adám

@Fatalize In Dyalog APL, _⍙çⒸ is a valid variable name.

Fatalize

@Adám In Prolog, _ಠ_ಠ is a variable name

Adám

@Fatalize In I, any string whatsoever can be a name because names are always quoted.

Lembik

hi all

hi @LeakyNun

Leaky Nun

7:33 AM

@Lembik hi

Lembik

@LeakyNun Looks like my challenge is proving tricky! I was hoping there would be some combinatorial insight

still time :)

Leaky Nun

@Lembik fastest-code is not that popular

Lembik

@LeakyNun Oh that's a shame. Is it code-golf or nothing?

Leaky Nun

basically...

Lembik

I think what I would like is team problem solving

so that we can ask harder questions and people can help each other

maybe we are quite close to that on ppcg in effect

I found a reddit programming challenge page too but I don't know if it's any good

has anyone tried it?

Leaky Nun

7:37 AM

@Lembik link?

Lembik

reddit.com/r/dailyprogrammer

what do you think?

Adám

@Lembik I have looked at it before. Can't make heads and tails of it.

Lembik

@Adám how come?

don't they just pose programming challenges?

@Adám I am just starting to look at it too

which is confused about it?

Adám

@Lembik The whole thing looks so messy. Kinda like Reddit… Oh.

Lembik

ah ok.. but the real question is are the answerers any good!

if they have smart people, I forgive all :)

Fatalize

9:27 AM

15 upvotes, and I answered it in a CMC earlier ;_;

Leaky Nun

@Fatalize 16 now

Fatalize

;__;

Leaky Nun

@Fatalize I don't like the fact that ṁ is called "matrix"

Fatalize

things for square were already taken

Let's say ṁ is called "Matrix (the square kind)" :p

Leaky Nun

@Fatalize but you can still name it as "square matrix"

brachylog_matrix('integer':L, M, M) :-
    length(M, L),
    maplist(length_(L), M).

it's so short lol

CMC (language-specific): given positive integers x and y, create an x-by-y 2D array of anything

Fatalize

9:36 AM

@LeakyNun Definitely shorter than other built-ins…

Adám

9:50 AM

@LeakyNun APL, 2 bytes: ⍴⍨

Leaky Nun

@Adám you win

Adám

@LeakyNun What‽ No language has a 1-byte solution?

Leaky Nun

@Adám It's just an expression

Adám

@LeakyNun What do you mean by "language specific"? And why?

@LeakyNun APL, 1 byte: ⍳

@LeakyNun Now I win.

Fatalize

@LeakyNun This is one of those simple challenges where I think "Brachylog really sucks"

Adám

9:59 AM

@Fatalize Brachylog is domain specific. It is amazing at a very special set of tasks. I wouldn't want to code a webserver or a factory control system in Brachylog.

Mayube

10:26 AM

Wow, Rod sure got lucky here codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/122746/44998

Leaky Nun

@Fatalize you're not even trying

(how would you say "you're not even trying" in French?)

Erik the Outgolfer

10:56 AM

@Mayube 311 to 150? o_O

Mayube

@EriktheOutgolfer to 77

Erik the Outgolfer

150 to 77 and 65 to 46 too

Beta Decay

11:14 AM

buzzfeed.com/kellyoakes/…

See how quickly you can get full marks ;D

totallyhuman

No not BuzzFeed

>_>

Kritixi Lithos

@BetaDecay wow so tough

Beta Decay

I was disappointed

Mayube

@BetaDecay hardest test of my life

Adám

@BetaDecay 8/8 despite not knowing Python :-)

@BetaDecay Now let's try the same thing in APL.

Qwerp-Derp

11:28 AM

@LeakyNun Tu ne trying pas

I speak fluent French, in case you couldn't tell /s

Kritixi Lithos

I think trying = essayer

Beta Decay

@Adám 0/8 immediately :D

Mayube

What would you call a challenge where the goal is to output sourcecode that performs a given task?

Adám

@Mayube code-generation

Mayube

there we go, now just give it like 3 weeks for NSP to catch up

Adám

11:36 AM

@Mayube NSP?

Mayube

New Sandbox Posts

Adám

@Mayube Ugh, I should know.

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Buzzfeed's Ultimate Coder Challenge code-golf code-generation Buzzfeed recently published a coding test which the guys over in TNB have determined is the world's hardest coding test [citation-needed]. In the language of your choice, given no input, output 8 separate snippets of code in your lan...

Anonymous

@Sherlock9 I would love to, but I'm not able to host a server right now (or pay for hosting). If someone else wants to take care of hosting, they can be my guest :)

totallyhuman

11:54 AM

hey is there a chat.se api?

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

The Travelling Merchant king-of-the-hill Economy is flourishing in the great Kingdom of Pipysigea [pee-pee-see-gee-ah], since the bandits have been driven away by the King's army. Especially, many people have decided to make trade their... trade, and have become merchants. You were one o...

user165474

@xnor Yay Vieta's theorem :D

user165474

@LeakyNun Oh okay thanks, that makes sense.

user165474

Does Jelly have mixed base conversion?

Anonymous

12:12 PM

@totallyhuman Nope

Anonymous

Chat is the neglected stepchild of SE

Qwerp-Derp

apply(|a, b...|: {
  if b == []
    return a
  else
    recur a + b[0], b[1..]...
}, x)

Is this syntax alright?

Or does it look ugly

Anonymous

The second one :P

Qwerp-Derp

:( I need a better way of writing multiline lambdas

@Mego Do you have any suggestions for a multiline lambda in a whitespace-based language?

Anonymous

@Qwerp-Derp If it uses whitespace for indentation, why do you need curly braces at all?

Anonymous

12:15 PM

Also the arg list is ugly

Anonymous

apply(a, b...:
  if b == []
    return a
  else
    recur a + b[0], b[1..]..
, x)

Qwerp-Derp

@Mego But in this case, I might need a way to specify where the lambda starts and ends

Because it's confusing in this sense

Anonymous

The lambda ends when you get back to the indentation level where it started

Adám

@HyperNeutrino You should ask that there.

Anonymous

@HyperNeutrino I think so

Anonymous

12:20 PM

I remember losing to Jelly once because of mixed-base conversion

user165474

Ok

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

The problem As I sometimes build bots, I often came across real time image reading. The goal in this problem is to be able to identify a number given pixel representation with the minimal amount of tests. For that, you will have to generate a tree that can identify any number. Input A list of...

user165474

Do you think remaking the Implode a Box challenge except with Explode a Box would be a dupe?

Anonymous

@Adám You were not joking.

Adám

@Mego No I wasn't.

Anonymous

12:37 PM

I don't know what I was expecting, but that managed to exceed my expectations

Anonymous

The only way it could be worse is if it used hotdog theme

user165474

Is that using COMIC SANS??? D:

Anonymous

I made it worse

user165474

:( imgur blocked on school wifi

Kritixi Lithos

@Mego not quite hotdog.vim yet

Anonymous

12:44 PM

I tried

Leaky Nun

7

A: Index of a multidimensional array

Jelly, 7 6 bytes Ṇ;żḅ@/ Try it online! or verify all test cases. How it works Ṇ;żḅ@/ Main link. Arguments: D (list of dimensions), I (list of indices) Ṇ Yield 0, the logical NOT of D. ż Zip D with I. If D = [10, 10, 4, 62, 7] and I = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5], this yields ...

user165474

Oh okay, thanks!

Adám

@Mego Thank you, I'll update our CSS.

Anonymous

what have I done

Erik the Outgolfer

hotdogception

Mayube

1:06 PM

ugh python's being a dumb

user165474

@Mayube what happened

Mayube

@HyperNeutrino python lambdas suck is what happened

user165474

rip :I

Mayube

yip

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

This will eventually stop… Given an input string S, print S followed by a separator in the following way: Step 1: S has a 1/2 chance of being printed, and a 1/2 chance for the program to terminate. Step 2: S has a 2/3 chance of being printed, and a 1/3 chance for the program to terminate. Step...

New Main Posts

1:30 PM

1

Q: Explode the Box

This is very similar to this challenge, "Implode the Box". It was a pretty nice challenge and it didn't get many answers, so I'm going to post a similar challenge (strongly) instpired by it. ASCII Boxes look like this: ++ +---+ +------+ +---+ +---+ ++ | | | | ...

Anonymous

@Mayube They're not fantastic. I wish there was a way to omit the lambda keyword

Mayube

@Mego I was trying to insert them into a dict, doesn't like that

which is a shame because a dict of anonymous functions is a great way to setup primitive functions in interpreters

Anonymous

@Mayube It should like that. I don't know if they can be used as keys, but they absolutely can be used as values

Mayube

@Mego env[':'] = lambda env,x,y: env[x] = y threw an error

Anonymous

That's because you can't do assignments in lambdas

Mayube

1:32 PM

ugh

well there's another thing that sucks about them then

Anonymous

env.__setitem__(x,y) should work

Mayube

doesn't matter now I've already ported the entire thing over to node

Lembik

remedial math question.,.. in the sequence 1/3, (1/3)(1-1/3), (1/3)(1-(1-(1/3))) etc. what is the nth term?

Anonymous

Python lambdas try to be pure functions

Mayube

imo js' anonymous objects and functions are the best things about the language

Anonymous

1:34 PM

@Lembik Is that (1-1/3)/3 or 1/(3(1-1/3))?

Lembik

good point.. fixed

Leaky Nun

is the third one supposed to be (1/3)(1-(1/3)(1-1/3)) instead?

Lembik

argh :) yes

Anonymous

So (1/3)(1-(1/3))**n for n >= 0

Anonymous

Oh wait I misread parens

Leaky Nun

1:36 PM

@Mego not really... the third one in its current state is (1/3)(1/3)

so f(n+1) = (1/3)[1 - f(n)]

Lembik

@LeakyNun yes

I just want to solve that

Leaky Nun

@Lembik that would make it (1/3)(1-(1/3)(1+1/3)) instead...

could you give me your original problem?

Lembik

yes.. I split the first third off string of length 1 and then do the same for the remaining part and repeat

I just want to size of the nth part I split off

Leaky Nun

oh

Lembik

so I wrote it all wrong ...sorry

but that's the problem

Leaky Nun

1:39 PM

you should have given me the original problem instead

Lembik

:) always true

Leaky Nun

the first term is 1/3, the second term is (1/3)(1 - (1/3)), and the third term is (1/3)(1 - (1/3))^2

5 mins ago, by Mego

So (1/3)(1-(1/3))**n for n >= 0

Lembik

let me check the third term

Anonymous

Hey look I was right after all!

Nathan Merrill

@MartinEnder I have yet another case of people ignoring historical meta rules

Leaky Nun

1:41 PM

it's (1/3)(1-(1/3))**(n-1), if you use 1-indexing

in Mego's answer, one begins with the 0-th term, which is 1/3

Nathan Merrill

should I make another post, or should I wait for this master post to get posted?

Lembik

so what are we saying the third term is exactly as a fraction?

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill Link?

Leaky Nun

@Lembik = (1/3)(2/3)^2 = 4/27

Lembik

that does look right

Nathan Merrill

1:42 PM

This one: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/11224/20198

Lembik

thanks @LeakyNun and @Mego and sorry for being so confused

Nathan Merrill

It used to have 10 upvotes, until it was started to get enforced, then people hated on it, and it gained a bunch of downvotes

so, I feel like I need to repost it

but it'd basically be the same question all over again

Leaky Nun

@Lembik it happens to everyone

Lembik

thanks

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill Don't repost it. It's entirely possible that the people who are downvoting it simply missed it when it was originally posted, and are just now expressing their opinions.

Nathan Merrill

1:45 PM

Perhaps, but I'd really like some discussion on the matter

like, people who are downvoting aren't commenting

its simply a matter of "I don't like that my submission needs more bytes, let me downvote this"

furthermore, its still the top-voted post, but I don't really want to go to a bunch of posts and say "This is invalid". That's the wrong place to put the fight

Anonymous

FWIW I support that answer. It follows logically from this very related consensus and this somewhat-related meta consensus.

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill You can't force people to discuss their opinions. That's probably a good thing.

Anonymous

Downvoting that answer without posting reasoning or an alternative answer doesn't solve or change anything really

Anonymous

It's still the highest-voted answer, and has a positive score, so it's the consensus

Lembik

@LeakyNun so if you add those up it should come to 1

Leaky Nun

1:50 PM

@Lembik yes

it's a geometric progression

Nathan Merrill

Right, and I understand I'd be perfectly OK to go and comment on all of the invalid submissions. But if nobody follows it, is that really the best way to move forward?

Anonymous

@LeakyNun It's also the PDF for a geometric distribution

Lembik

@LeakyNun but it sums to 2/3

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill If people don't willingly delete or fix their invalid submissions, then mod flag them with a link to the meta post.

Anonymous

@Lembik Only if you exclude the initial 1/3 term

Leaky Nun

1:52 PM

@Lembik could you show how you computed 2/3?

Lembik

sum (1/3)(2/3)^x x = 1..infinity = 2/3

Anonymous

You should be doing 0..infinity

Lembik

ah yes... :_

:)

thanks

Anonymous

Off-by-one errors get all of us :)

Lembik

:)

Anonymous

1:53 PM

Well, all but one of us

Lembik

:)

but in practice when splitting a real string it seems you only need to sum something log_{2/3} n terms ?

I mean when there are no fractional splits

Anonymous

Well how do you split a string whose length isn't a multiple of 3?

Lembik

you have to round

Anonymous

But how do you round?

Lembik

the nearest integer?

and stop if the string is length < 3 maybe

Anonymous

1:57 PM

So the remaining part would have length ceil(2*len(str)/3)

Lembik

yes

Anonymous

And there would be some value N where repeatedly applying that operation would result in a string with length less than 3

Lembik

yes

Anonymous

Let's call L the original string length. If L < 3, N = 0. If 3 <= L <= 5, N = 1 (because after applying one cut, the length would be in [0, 2]).

Lembik

yes

Mayube

2:01 PM

hmm, so in js let's say I have an array a containing 2 elements, and I have a function f that takes either 1 or 2 arguments. I know I can get how many arguments it takes with f.length, but how can I then pass only the correct number of arguments from the array?

Nathan Merrill

bah....I just realized that we have a problem with our current "function as a submission" definition. If I make a scripting language with 20 integer types, and each of them do something different with i->i+i, then I've effectively encoded 20 different operations in the same 1 byte.

Anonymous

If 6 <= L <= 14, N = 2 (because after applying one cut, the length would be in [3, 5])

Nathan Merrill

Its the Java problem, but extended out to scripting languages

Anonymous

So N = floor(log_3(L))

Mayube

like if f.length == 1, I want to call f(a[0]), but if it's 2, I want to instead call f(a[0], a[1])

Anonymous

2:03 PM

@NathanMerrill By scripting languages, I assume you mean dynamically-typed languages and duck-typed languages?

Nathan Merrill

yeah

Mayube

more importantly how could I do it for an arbitrary f.length?

Anonymous

@Mayube JS allows an arbitrary number of arguments to be passed to a function.

Anonymous

Use arguments to get them all

Mayube

do I just not define any required args in the function definition then?

so function f(){}

instead of function f(arg){}

Anonymous

2:05 PM

Yep. Parameters don't mean much. They are just aliases for the elements of arguments

Lembik

@Mego oh...log_3 ?

I wasn't expecting that

but it makes sense

Anonymous

I think it's log_3... I might be wrong

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Count Numbers in Integer Partition code-golf Challenge and Example We can partition a positive integer into smaller (or equal) ones. For instance, for N=6, it can be divided into: 6 (1 integer occurs >= 1 times, 0 integer occurs >= 2 times) 5+1 (1, 0) 4+2 (2, 0) 4+1+1 (2, 1) 3+3 (1, 1) 3+2+1...

mınxomaτ

> Use a space before an opening parenthesis when functions, or indexing, like method (a);

The mono team has gone insane.

Anonymous

@mınxomaτ That's sadly a very common style for C/++

mınxomaτ

2:14 PM

I hardly ever see this in C

Anonymous

Thankfully PEP 8 allows ritual sacrifice of Python devs who style their code like that

mınxomaτ

good: method (a); array [10];

ugh

Kritixi Lithos

I don't include that space, even in if-statements like if(blah == blah) {}

Anonymous

@KritixiLithos Good. Resist the dark side.

Anonymous

It will bring you nothing but pain, mostly in the form of having your fingers swatted with a ruler, Catholic-style.

Jan Dvorak

2:16 PM

Ruler still beats having to buy forgiveness for cold hard cash

Phoenix

I believe space after if and while is fine, but certainly not in function calls.

Kritixi Lithos

D: some of my older code has that space after ifs

Anonymous

Challenge: Given Python code, write equivalent code that contains no whitespace (therefore it must be a one-liner)

Nathan Merrill

@mınxomaτ hey, have you been able to look into WSL supporting Suse and Fedora?

Kritixi Lithos

but at least I've changed now

Nathan Merrill

2:18 PM

is it similar to how you were doing Arch?

Phoenix

@NathanMerrill Microsoft is making a fedora one

Nathan Merrill

^^^^

PhiNotPi

I usually put spaces after ifs

Phoenix

You can get it with a preview build of windows iirc

I also see this a lot: int f ( int x ) { foo(); }

In one line functions

PhiNotPi

the QFT room froze: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/35837/the-quest-for-tetris :(

Kritixi Lithos

2:24 PM

D:

Anonymous

@Phoenix barfs uncontrollably

Kritixi Lithos

I'll be more active, I hope at least, in a few days

Nathan Merrill

@PhiNotPi ...I thought that you had finished that. I checked the question though, and apparently I was dreaming or something

PhiNotPi

@NathanMerrill ;-; i know it's sad

Nathan Merrill

maybe I was remembering the digital clock

PhiNotPi

2:28 PM

Has anyone else in here played the game Crossout? I think it'll be really cool to have a KOTH like that.

8

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Epic Customizable Tank Battle (Work-In-Progress) This is an idea I have been working on in conjuction with users @Trimsty and @githubphagocyte in the chat room. It is inspired by the flash game "Bubble Tanks" by Armor Games. This will be a king-of-the-hill challenge. Main Idea The main idea...

^^ basically the game Crossout is one in which you build a vehicle, attach armor and weapons, and fight other vehicles in an arena.

The thing that makes it fun is that you have basically unlimited flexibility in how you design/build your vehicle.

New Main Posts

0

Q: Can those squares form an imperfect square

Given an array of length l of positive integer, determine if it's possible that if we turn all integers of the array into squares with the sidelength of this integer and arrange them that it is possible that they form an square with an integer sidelength the output can have anything as tru...

code-golf math number geometry decision-problem

Alex K Chen

I wanna install C on my Windows 8.1, and I am an absolute newbie. Anybody wanna help me on installing that ?

Anonymous

@AlexKChen MinGW or Cygwin+GCC

Alex K Chen

2:43 PM

-3

Q: Questions about compiling C on Windows and using getchar()

I am an absolute newbie to programming (only know very basic Python), and I'm reading C from Kernighan and Ritchie. My two questions are: How do you start coding in C in Windows 8.1? I mean, basically, in Python, you just install it from the website, and start coding in IDLE, but I don't see a...

c visual-studio

I have asked this question, so I am asking a few questions based on the responce I got:

@Mego I mainly want to use C for simulationing physics and mathematical stuff. Can I do it in the Visual Studio ?

Newly Featured Questions

22

Q: Arranging arbitrary rectangles to fill a space

Can these rectangles fill a rectangular space? Given a bunch of rectangles, you are asked whether or not they can be arranged to fill a rectangular space. Specs Given a bunch of arbitrary m x n rectangles; 0 <= m, n <= 1000, determine whether or not it is possible to arrange them so that they ...

code-golf set-partitions tiling

Alex K Chen

Anybody ?

MD XF

@ETHproductions Yep :P

Alex K Chen

@Mego While installing Visual studio for C, should I tick any of the stuff in "workloads" or "indivisual components" ?

Anonymous

@AlexKChen Sure. You might have some difficulties with the fact that Visual Studio doesn't fully support all of the newest C features, but it will work. I personally think that VS is overkill, and you'd be better suited with MinGW and an IDE like Code::Blocks or NetBeans.

Alex K Chen

2:48 PM

@Mego Okay, so to use MinGW, what should I do ? (Also, what is IDE ?)

Anonymous

@AlexKChen IDE means Integrated Development Environment. Basically it's a program that includes an editor and some tools that make development easier. To get MinGW, you can download it directly from the MinGW site, but it's much easier to just download and install an IDE that bundles MinGW (like Code::Blocks or NetBeans).

Alex K Chen

Then I can simply start to type C code ?

Anonymous

Yep

ETHproductions

@MDXF Wow, that's insane

MD XF

@ETHproductions Well, so am I, we already established that :c

ETHproductions

2:58 PM

I think the most rep I would have ever earned in one day without the rep cap is 350

You must've had an answer go really viral or something

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