The Nineteenth Byte

Hey, I have an idea for an esoteric hardware programming language and I was hoping I could use someone as a soundboard to get some standardization ideas for I/O

ASCII-only

@PatrickRoberts okay (also, hardware programming?)

Patrick Roberts

Okay, so imagine a 2D language that's basically ASCII art of a digital logic circuit, where input lines originate from top and left sides and output lines end at bottom and right sides

ASCII-only

@PatrickRoberts okay

esolangs.org/wiki/Funciton :P

Patrick Roberts

Hmm... mine would be different, because the language would run more similarly to something like Verilog or VHDL.

It would support boolean logic gates, D-flip-flops, latches, registers, wires, and things like that

ASCII-only

@anyone I need unicode commands for Rule (instead of → and :>), help

@PatrickRoberts hmm ok

Patrick Roberts

1:19 AM

maybe later versions of the language (once I get basic functionality working) would understand things like indeterminate values, and high impedance values

btw @ASCII-only xahlee.info/comp/unicode_arrows.html

ASCII-only

@PatrickRoberts yeah but I need ones that are easy to remember (preferably having some resemblance to -> and :>), and aren't part of a set

Patrick Roberts

I think I just resolved the I/O issue in my head. In Verilog, you can declare lines as multiple parallel bits, or even as dynamically sized bit-widths depending on how each module is called

sorry, I have no clue about that then

Now for the name... does 2HDL seem like too boring of a name?

ASCII-only

@PatrickRoberts VH2DL :P

Patrick Roberts

how about H2DL then, because the V doesn't apply to this language (it's short for VHSIC, which in turn means very high speed integrated circuit). I suspect this language will not be high-speed.

ASCII-only

@PatrickRoberts :| if it isn't high speed then you're not doing it right

Patrick Roberts

1:29 AM

hey hey, I don't complain when code is golfed to run slow implementations :P

Anonymous

Just turn the dial to 11. That'll make it fast.

Patrick Roberts

Hey Mego, you like the idea for the programming language though?

ASCII-only

@PatrickRoberts >_> you shouldn't be golfing an interpreter though

Patrick Roberts

no, not the interpreter, jesus xD

Destructible Lemon

so, is this hardware?

ASCII-only

1:30 AM

@PatrickRoberts then it shouldn't be too slow

Patrick Roberts

But I'm likely to implement at least early versions of the language in JavaScript (or C++ if I'm feeling really motivated)

Anonymous

@PatrickRoberts Haven't looked at what you said yet. I just saw the opportunity for a joke and I went for it.

ASCII-only

@PatrickRoberts pls implement in JS

Patrick Roberts

It's a hardware description language, which will be interpreted and simulated in software

Anonymous

I like the idea

Anonymous

1:31 AM

Don't use JS, for the love of goats

Patrick Roberts

upside of JS interpreter: can run in-browser easily. downside: it's slow af compared to a C++ based interpreter written well

ASCII-only

@PatrickRoberts solution: write in asm.js or even better wasm (but wasm doesn't have very good support atm)

Patrick Roberts

Hmm... that will give me an opportunity to try it out. I suppose I can consider that. Or I could write it in Rust owo

ASCII-only

@PatrickRoberts any interpreter can run in-browser easily if it's on TIO :P

Patrick Roberts

That's true, but I hate bugging Dennis to add another entry

Anonymous

1:35 AM

Or use C and/or C++ and use emscripten if you really want a JS implementation

Anonymous

@PatrickRoberts Dennis has stated multiple times that it's really not much of a hassle to add languages or update them.

Patrick Roberts

Oh, that's cool. I didn't know about emscripten

Downgoat

@Mego what if you need dynamic library

Patrick Roberts

I think I'll write it in C++ then, thanks

Anonymous

@Downgoat Why would you need a dynamic library in this situation?

Patrick Roberts

1:37 AM

I think he was referring to TIO

Downgoat

alternative suggestion: write in VSL

VSL -> LLVM -> ASM -> C -> JS

simple solution

Patrick Roberts

Anyway, thanks for the advice guys. Look forward to releasing my first version of H2DL in hopefully less than a month

Anonymous

@Downgoat I think a usable language would be better :P

ASCII-only

@PatrickRoberts users.rust-lang.org/t/…

Anonymous

@PatrickRoberts Cool, I'll look at it when it comes out in 3 months

ASCII-only

1:39 AM

@PatrickRoberts You can write in pretty much any compiled language and transpile to asm.js with emscripten

Downgoat

wait emscriptem takes LLVM itself :O

@ASCII-only brb making VSL -> JS converter

ASCII-only

@Mego ~~You mean 6-8 weeks~~ oh wait this isn't SO we're talking about

Patrick Roberts

wow, thanks for the vote of confidence =w=

ASCII-only

Seems like there are more people here, I'll post this again:

22 mins ago, by ASCII-only

@anyone I need unicode commands for Rule (instead of → and :>), help

Destructible Lemon

what does that mean

ASCII-only

1:41 AM

@DestructibleLemon i need more unicode arrows for charcoal

Destructible Lemon

o

user165474

This answer by Christopher seems to be a copy of this github content from orlp without permission except golfed, and since I have a +100 bounty on it, and there have been no (original) answers, I don't want the bounty to go to this answer, so what should I do? Note also that if you check the revision history it was literally just a copy of that github content without any changes.

Anonymous

@PatrickRoberts I'm just following Hofstadter's Law

Patrick Roberts

H2DL compiler just needs to trace lines from inputs to gates, and from gates to other gates or outputs, generate a directed graph in memory, and then the interpreter will just simulate time steps while passing data along the lines in lock-step

Destructible Lemon

@Mego aw man, now its gonna take 6 months

Patrick Roberts

1:44 AM

anyway, bye now

Anonymous

@HyperNeutrino I wouldn't give that answer the bounty because of the blatant stealing

user165474

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't bounties get half-awarded to the highest upvoted answer by default?

ASCII-only

@HyperNeutrino Ask a mod to refund

Anonymous

It requires a positive score on the answer

Anonymous

Also you have 3 days left - maybe someone else will answer

user165474

1:45 AM

Oh okay. Well it has -2 right now and a VTD so /shrug and yeah hopefully someone will answer

Destructible Lemon

oh no. I'd help out but I'm not that good ;_;

user165474

@ASCII-only Okay, thanks, I will if that becomes necessary.

Destructible Lemon

@ASCII-only how is this ⊜

ASCII-only

@DestructibleLemon ???

Destructible Lemon

for rule

its equals in a circle

wait it doesn't render nicely

ASCII-only

1:49 AM

@DestructibleLemon but it isn't anything like -> or :>

Destructible Lemon

._.

how about the old electric arrow

⌁

PhiNotPi

@HyperNeutrino I just added a VTD

user165474

Thanks.

Patrick Roberts

@Mego are you the one that makes programming languages named after adverbs?

user165474

Actually I do Seriously think it is Mego.

Patrick Roberts

1:55 AM

lol

user165474

:)

Patrick Roberts

Okay, mind if I decide to name my language "Hardly"? Since it's a hardware language?

Anonymous

@PatrickRoberts Possibly.

Patrick Roberts

So can I use that name?

Anonymous

@PatrickRoberts Go for it. As much as I joke, I don't actually have sole ownership of the use of adverbs as programming language names.

Anonymous

1:57 AM

Though if I did, that would be pretty cool.

Anonymous

Also if you use CP437 I'd be even more ok with it.

Patrick Roberts

Fair enough. I just didn't want to step on your toes if you had that name reserved for a language in progress or something

Anonymous

Nah. I have a few adverbs in mind, but I'm not going to stake a claim on them until I actually write something.

PhiNotPi

@Mego I'm gonna claim sole ownership of using nouns as language names.

Patrick Roberts

oh, this code page is what I've been looking for!

Know how to use it in C++?

ASCII-only

1:59 AM

@PhiNotPi damnit does everyone have to pay royalties to you now or something

PhiNotPi

Yes, every time you use a noun in reference to a programming language.

Patrick Roberts

That would include my language Bean

feersum

Bean can be a verb though.

Anonymous

@PatrickRoberts I have very little clue how to use Unicode in C++. Probably something to do with wchars and std::wstrings.

user165474

Can someone delete this? (1 more VTD) thanks

feersum

2:01 AM

wchars are only good if you're you're using some framework that forces you to use UTF-16, e.g. Windows API.

Anonymous

My usual advice for people who want to use Unicode strings in C/C++ is "don't use C/C++" but that doesn't seem very helpful

Evil Sheep

Speaking of unicode: is there C library that does UTF8 encoding/decoding/etc.?

Patrick Roberts

eh, maybe I'll just use JavaScript then. I'm a bit more comfortable using it anyway

Evil Sheep

@PatrickRoberts 10/10 good choice

feersum

Also CP437 is a 1-byte encoding, why would you need any Unicode handling?

Evil Sheep

2:04 AM

@PhiNotPi including proper nouns?

Patrick Roberts

@EvilSheep don't be so sure. I'm using JavaScript to write a compiler/interpreter for a 2D hardware programming language.

Anonymous

@EvilSheep ICU and Boost.Locale are apparently the best choices.

ASCII-only

@PatrickRoberts JS to write compiler? +1

Evil Sheep

^ same, but make sure to design so AST does not need GC

Anonymous

@feersum Because I'm not actually sure. I think C/C++ might have an aneurysm if anything other than ASCII is used.

user165474

2:05 AM

Random question: What happens if you try to award a bounty to a deleted answer?

Anonymous

@HyperNeutrino You can't. The button isn't there.

totallyhuman

so i decided to write a brainfuck derivative ('cause who doesn't want more of those)

user165474

erm... it is?

totallyhuman

anybody know if there's already a language called brainfrick?

ASCII-only

It doesn't, I've done it before

Patrick Roberts

2:06 AM

I think brainfack sounds funnier

PhiNotPi

@EvilSheep (I wasn't prepared for the joke to last this long) I would consider proper nouns to be a derivative work, so it depends how similar that particular proper noun is to a normal noun.

ASCII-only

@totallyhuman kinda

totallyhuman

@ASCII-only well frick

user165474

totallyhuman

'cause my language in my opinion, fucks with your brain but a little lesser than brainfuck would

so frick was the best word for it

Anonymous

2:08 AM

@HyperNeutrino Well in that case, clicking on the button shouldn't do anything

Patrick Roberts

Meh, I'm just gonna call the language H2DL. makes for a better file extension, and I don't really plan on writing code golf submissions for it that I actually expect to win

user165474

Okay. It does show the "Are you Sure?" dialog but I'm pretty sure it would just say "the answer's deleted" if I clicked proceed/OK

Patrick Roberts

You sound too afraid to find out :P

totallyhuman

do it

goes to r/prequelmemes

user165474

^^^ Who?

LegionMammal978

2:18 AM

yawn

Growing up in a politically conservative U.S. household, it's interesting to watch the insane generalizations others make of them

Anonymous

Man, I can tell this is going to be a productive line of conversation that won't lead to any name-calling or flaming.

LegionMammal978

@HyperNeutrino What's that about? Why's that post downvoted/deleted?

@Mego ^ fixed the line of conversation

totallyhuman

@LegionMammal978 it was plagiarized code

user165474

Check the comments on the question.

Riker

@HyperNeutrino yes there's a meta post about it

user165474

2:25 AM

Ooh cool

Riker

15

Q: Why does the bounty award button appear on deleted answers?

Clearly this is an edge case and I probably shouldn't have even tried awarding the bounty to a deleted answer, but why is the bounty award button even available? It's not a bug since someone added in the notification seen in the final image. But that sure seems like a roundabout way to ...

> Same reason the rest of the voting buttons show up. That said, I agree that telling you you can't award the bounty should probably happen instead of first showing you the Big Scary Confirmation.

user165474

okay. yeah.

totallyhuman

2:45 AM

brainfrack

brainfack

brainfock

:/ imma end up spending more time pondering this than writing the language

Destructible Lemon

@totallyhuman well it is a bf derivative

LegionMammal978

???

Usually get 24 Mbps down, currently averaging at 16 Mbps

Downgoat

3:31 AM

@KritixiLithos alternative solution: Convert homework to CMC and leverage power of PPCG :D

Anonymous

8 hours ago, by Beta Decay

I should really stop posting my schoolwork as challenges :|

orlp

4:43 AM

I just played a ton of piano

afterwards I did a typing test

125 wpm a new record :D

DJMcMayhem

I'll have to try that

orlp

@DJMcMayhem typing-speed-test.aoeu.eu/?lang=en

DJMcMayhem

I'm not ready yet, I need to play piano first, xP

Anonymous

I need to acquire a piano and learn how to play it first :P

Phoenix

Can anyone give me their C:\Windows\syswow64\edputil.dll? Mine's broken and the only copy I could find online was also not working.

Anonymous

4:51 AM

Can't you do some kind of system repair/restore?

Anonymous

Trusting a stranger on the internet to give you a core system DLL is not smart

Phoenix

Doesn't seem to be ver "core" considering I currently don't have one and the only thing that's broken is a game I'm trying to play. Have done System Restore, fixed nothing.

Anonymous

Why don't you have one?

Phoenix

I renamed it to put in a new one.

Actually, never mind, now it's complaining about opengl32.dll not being found

Anonymous

Yeah I think you have bigger problems

Phoenix

4:59 AM

21:58:46: [INFO] Blocked loading of file: "C:\Windows\syswow64\uxtheme.dll".
21:58:46: [INFO] Blocked loading of file: "C:\Windows\syswow64\edputil.dll".
21:58:46: [INFO] Blocked loading of file: "C:\Windows\syswow64\urlmon.dll".
21:58:48: [INFO] Blocked loading of file: "C:\Windows\System32\opengl32.dll".

I managed to replace uxtheme.dll and the first error went away but it's back now

ASCII-only

anyone here good with mathematica?

Phoenix

I am pretty good, MartinEnder is amazing, I'm kinda busy tho

(I am less good at golfing)

ASCII-only

@Phoenix ok do you have any idea what Flatten does for two lists

Kritixi Lithos

@Downgoat I'm pretty sure people here would love to write an essay ;)

Phoenix

Uh, you can look it up in the docs. The second list specifies a pattern that the new first list is restructured to.

ASCII-only

5:03 AM

@Phoenix yeah idk what that means

Phoenix

Me neither tbh

Anonymous

It's kinda like numpy.reshape iirc

Anonymous

If you're at all familiar with numpy

Anonymous

Or like reshape in Octave and Matlab

Phoenix

;-;

Anonymous

5:07 AM

I think you're approaching reinstall territory

Phoenix

Yeah, I'll do it rn

ATaco

I probably need to do a reinstall.

I tried to update and it sat there for half an hour and said "Nah actually NM"

Phoenix

The Fresh Start screen is depressinginly telling me it hasn't been a month since the last time this happened

I'm not sure if I should blame Microsoft, my shoddily-built PC, me tinkering with system files, Ubisoft.

I would totally install Fedora if this wasn't my gaming computer.

Anonymous

I'm gonna guess #3

Anonymous

Tinkering with system files is like playing with matches

Phoenix

5:14 AM

I clicked "see removed apps" and the Fresh Start utility crashed

@Mego I only did it once when it was already being weird

"Remove all personal files" it is. Will be nice to finally see my desktop.

I should clone my drive once I have all of my stuff reinstalled

Wow, I can hear my computer's fans from the other side of the house

You know, last time I reinstalled windows was because the display would fail every thirty minutes or so.

This isn't that bad.

I wonder if a full restore wipes additional drives. I have a bunch of games installed to `D:` that I'd rather not reinstall.

ATaco

5:29 AM

It shouldn't, To my knowledge.

Phoenix

Hopefully

Anonymous

System resets just reinstall core files

Phoenix

I chose the "Remove everything" option

ATaco

Wait, is the consensus against stringifying Functions for Quines now?

Phoenix

"This build of windows will expire soon"

Dafuq

ATaco

5:34 AM

I saw someone call x=f=>`x=${x}` a cheating Javascript quine, and a perfectly good answer was deleted because of it.

Phoenix

IMO quines should be complete programs

"Something went wrong" on a step that says "Just a moment" with no other information.

They made it so my pin can't be 0000 ;-;

Destructible Lemon

@Mego how is the factorio server?

ASCII-only

:| ok so idk how to implement reshape

Phoenix

Ooh, it's already booted

That was fast

@ASCII-only Are you trying to implement mathematica

ASCII-only

@Phoenix no >_> (actually yes don't ask me why when mathics already exists)

Anonymous

5:42 AM

@DestructibleLemon Still problematic. The PC keeps turning off randomly

Destructible Lemon

aw

anyone been on there and built some of the factory?

Phoenix

@ASCII-only Can't you contribute to Mathics then? It's not in excellent condition as it is.

ASCII-only

@ATaco *the bling quine: $=_=>`$=${$};$()`;$()

Phoenix

And then you'd be doing something useful.

Anonymous

@DestructibleLemon I only managed to stay connected for about a minute because of a shoddy adapter

ASCII-only

5:44 AM

@Phoenix not yet, i'm reimplementing mathematica partly to learn more about things

ATaco

Bling quine is slightly longer than my quine.

Destructible Lemon

@Mego I might see if I can get the factory started

ATaco

It's a quine, simply a quine in a Named Program.

ASCII-only

@ATaco with that definition though the bling quine becomes $=_=>`$=${$}`

ATaco

Which is, coincidentally, the same quine.

ASCII-only

5:46 AM

because $ and _ > x and f

Anonymous

@DestructibleLemon I'm still waiting on a new adapter, so feel free to host it

ATaco

But the RProgN2 Looping quine still reigns supreme! {`{.¶}{

Destructible Lemon

o its not up at all

;_; sorry I misunderstood

also i wouldn't know how to host

Anonymous

That's ok

Anonymous

Hosting is easy. You just start a new multiplayer server, set a password, and open it to public.

Destructible Lemon

5:47 AM

really?

just on my computer?

Phoenix

*NOOOOO*
I have to reinstall my userscripts!

Destructible Lemon

anyway I'm at the house that doesn't have unlimited internet so it's probably not a great idea

ATaco

RIP EmojiScript

I have a VPS you can borrow.

Phoenix

So chrome is telling me I can't install userscripts from github

ATaco

Do you have Tampermonkey installed?

Phoenix

5:50 AM

Yes, but apparantly it was disabled

Huh

@ATaco There's so many tacoscripts that you should make a script that installs all the tacoscripts

And detects when there's a new one

numbermaniac

tacotacoscript

ATaco

Well there are some scripts I don't want people to install.

Like Teamspirit, EmojiScript (When it existed) and ChatFormatting.

ASCII-only

@ATaco then leave those out?

Phoenix

@ATaco I like ChatFormatting

ATaco

I like it to, but I'm not expecting anyone to use it.

Leaky Nun

5:52 AM

CMC: output how many times the source code is repeated, e.g. if your submission is AB, then AB gives 1, ABAB gives 2, etc.

Phoenix

You could put some comment at the bottom e.g. //tacoignore

Leaky Nun

I'm not sure if that's even possible

ASCII-only

@LeakyNun the CMC? of course it is

ATaco

@LeakyNun That's a challange already.

Leaky Nun

@ATaco ...nvm

link?

ATaco

5:53 AM

Trying to find it, It's one of Dennis's

Leaky Nun

@ASCII-only well, if AB gives 1, then naturally ABAB would give 11...

Destructible Lemon

@LeakyNun not necessarily...

ASCII-only

@LeakyNun not with implicit printing

Destructible Lemon

I imagine I could accomplish this in Turtlèd

link to challenge pls

ATaco

Oh, I'm thinking of the Intererweaving quine.

My bad.

Destructible Lemon

5:58 AM

and that was different anyway?

Phoenix

Destructible Lemon

theres no arrow there

ATaco

Regardless, this works. RProgN2 [01+`0=0

Destructible Lemon

also "Link" is a proper noun

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