The Nineteenth Byte - 2017-05-15 (page 1 of 4)

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12:20 AM

Hello

I am the only "blue" user out of 68...

Destructible Lemon

?

@TuxCopter banned

:(

@DestructibleLemon Did you literally miss the conversation you were in?

Destructible Lemon

@Christopher I'm fairly sure I'm blue, buddy

6

12:25 AM

You are

Yeah, You are.

user image

@ATaco bug report

Destructible Lemon

...

Itsafeature

hm

Destructible Lemon

12:26 AM

thats not how it works

those are the scores

not the teams

Scores of what?

There's just a lot of Red on the starboard.

Such is life.

So it is a starboard score?

Yeah

Count of stars on the starboard of each team.

Destructible Lemon

also by coincidence when my message was starred the scores were the same

12:28 AM

Actually, Red increased by one.

Destructible Lemon

(not from my message being starred)

Red users are 98.6% more likely to be starred

Destructible Lemon

hey, sometimes blue was winning bigly

Back when we counted stickies.

Must not abuse stars

Destructible Lemon

12:34 AM

@ATaco not just then

we were winning bigliest at that time but it wasn't the only time

shit not google bar

Simply Beautiful Art

Do you think it would be a good question to ask for a function that diagonalizes against a language? That is, you could write a function in Ruby that returns the largest number outputted in golfscript using n characters or less.

user165474

12:50 AM

@xnor Nice. Would you care to share it here or in another room?

not google bar
What about google foo

user165474

>_>

@Christopher I wanted to ask before, Did you make the game '2048 Sandbox'?

'Cause, I mean, its maker is named 'Calvin's Hobbies'

and who's 'Calvin's Hobbies' If its not you

user165474

It may be Helka.

Hmm

Oh wait

right Calvin is helka

user165474

12:56 AM

Yes.

user165474

I believe Helka's IRL name is Calvin.

Destructible Lemon

is it?

user165474

I think so. I remember "hearing" that somewhere.

Ah no it isnt

His name 'Calvin's Hobbies' was inspired from the comic 'Calvin & Hobbes'

user165474

I thought his name was actually Calvin though?

user165474

12:59 AM

Like that would make sense but I believe Helka's real name is Calvin.

user165474

@HelkaHomba

(I thought his IRL name was Helka)

(but is it)

Anyways I have worried if I make a new bot account while I'm chatbanned, the bot will be deleted as a sockpuppet

Is that the case @mods

(I don't have to worry now but meh I'm just curious)

@HyperNeutrino en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_and_Hobbes (yes this was the origin of the tiger too)

srsly android

@SIGSEGV If you don't use the bot account while you're banned I think it's fine

user165474

Hm. Interesting.

user165474

@SIGSEGV I'd say that just don't try using your bot account while chatbanned because then your bot will probably be chatbanned because mods might think you're trying to circumvent the chat ban that way.

1:14 AM

Ok

But I don't have to worry now (yay)

user165474

Mods might not notice if your bot account name is not similar but don't try.

user165474

@SIGSEGV You were chatbanned at one point?

Yes

(Actually twice)

user165474

Oh hm. Sorry I never noticed you missing from here.

(One for a week, one for a month)

user165474

1:16 AM

Ah. Wait actually I think I remember the month ban.

(Thats why I didn't answer all that mentions)

(I couldn't)

user165474

Ah, I see.

So, I'm currently making a challenge

'Builtin, or not?'

@SIGSEGV I advise you to make that in sandbox first.

I'll comment on it detailedly.

Sure

I don't actually think its hard tho

Its just checking if a mathematica program is 'Builtin' or not

But I would have to search for some dupes

'Cause it's initially just searching for brackets

1:21 AM

if you would tell me more details, I could review it here.

Ah wait I think its just simple regex I'll pass on this idea

user165474

@ATaco Chat Commands bug: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ has too many backslashes in its right arm. (viewer left)

user165474

Oh wait nevermind.

user165474

Right because escape strings >_>

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

user165474

1:23 AM

Wait so do backslashes escape things?

I'm happy that an answer in Z80 machine code finally apeared here :-)

Is the meta relay bot still working?

I asked a question on the meta about half an hour ago and the bot hasn't appeared

@SIGSEGV No it isn't

@HyperNeutrino 1. it's getting answered, 2. it's actually easier than people thought it was

user165474

1:39 AM

Oh hm? I know PhiNotPi is working on it with a team of people

@HyperNeutrino Yeah

Idea: Linked string, where each element is a char

user165474

:O

But since logic gates can be made with normal gliders, it looks like the solution can be like 1000 times smaller than their one

user165474

Oh. I see.

1:41 AM

@SIGSEGV Well yeah it isn't exactly easy to make tetris in a golflang either

@ASCII-only Well yeah it isn't exactly easy to make tetris in [any TC language] either

Exactly. Which is partly the reason why it's still unanswered - even without the requirement of using GoL, it would still be among the hardest challenges on PPCG

user165474

It doesn't sound too bad in most practical languages

user165474

But still significantly trickier than the rest

Yeah, but since it's so complex it isn't easy to golf

Destructible Lemon

1:44 AM

I want to learn how to use the x windows system, most preferably in python.

does anyone here know how to and/or know any good places to learn this?

@DestructibleLemon well all you really need is python bindings and the X11 API documentation

Destructible Lemon

I don't get it

but it seems like there are no up-to-date bindings

Destructible Lemon

darn.

@DestructibleLemon well X11 isn't written in Python, so you can't use it directly, which is where bindings come in - they provide a python interface to X11

I can only find this one, last updated 2014

Destructible Lemon

1:47 AM

@ASCII-only approximately how insane would it be to make the bindings if I figure out how to use x 11 in C, for example?

0

Q: What to do about a fluctuating consensus?

Currently on the defaults for IO this answer is does not have enough positive votes to be instated. At press time it has +11-6, defaults are required to have: 5 net votes and at least twice as many upvotes as downvotes. However only a day ago this method was valid (If memory serves it was ...

Yay, only 45 minutes late!

can someone give me an example of this:

53

A: Default for Code Golf: Input/Output methods

Programs may take input via command-line arguments

I can think of two things it means

→ 65 messages moved to Trash

Hope I didn't hit any pearls.

@Downgoat Every single Jelly program ever. What's the second potential meaning you have in mind?

@Dennis how is discussion about a primalty test challenge trash?

1:59 AM

@Downgoat Wise and Brain-flak answers also take input via command line arguments

@Dennis Like does this mean gcc codegolfProgram.c -D input="Hello World"

@Downgoat 5+3=8

@LeakyNun It was part of a greater oh my god what should I post conversation, which wasn't particularly constructive as there weren't any ideas.

@Downgoat well yeah brcause functions are valid

@Dennis just because the discussion isn't fruitful doesn't mean that the discussion is trash.

Do you avoid discussions which would not have any result?

Even so, you cannot retrospectively determine that it is trash, after you found that there is no result.

Before the discussion, potentially there could be a result.

2:02 AM

That part alone would have been fine. When there are 50+ messages noising up the room, I won't debate with myself for a minute whether I should move this or that one.

@Downgoat That's not really command-line arguments, as they're not passed to the program. It's a compiler flag.

Should I try jelly

@SIGSEGV sure

But.. I can't easily understand the syntax.

user165474

Did someone invite me to trash?

@SIGSEGV github.com/DennisMitchell/jelly/wiki/Tutorial

2:05 AM

@HyperNeutrino That will happen when messages are moved. Sorry about that.

user165474

Oh, alright. No worries :)

@LeakyNun (I read that so many times)

@SIGSEGV which part do you not understand?

@SIGSEGV Trial and error

@ASCII-only Oh ok I see

Oh I see why jelly programs were so short

builtins

btw, How do you practically make Jelly programs? I can't easily type one from my keyboard.

2:13 AM

@SIGSEGV copy + paste :P

jk, but it was intended to be easy to type from a US layout keyboard

I mainly copy and paste

@ASCII-only It is easy to type with the right keyboard layout.

@DJMcMayhem hi

2:33 AM

0

Q: Golf a transcendental number

Definitions An algebraic number is a number that is a zero of a non-zero polynomial with integer coefficients. For example, the square root of 2 is algebraic, because it is a zero of x^2 - 2. A transcendental number is a real number which is not algebraic. Task You are to choose a transcende...

code-golf number

@LeakyNun there's no need to post your challenges here yourself. Just wait for NMP - that's what he's here for.

Anonymous

→ 1 message moved to Trash

3:04 AM

CMC: is n a power of 3?

I'm pretty sure most people won't care, But I fixed Jalapeno's Chaining rules!

Anonymous

@LeakyNun Python, 43 bytes

@Mego 1

Anonymous

@LeakyNun I assumed you meant "positive power"

Anonymous

Be more clear next time

3:09 AM

@Mego Python, 40 bytes

->_{1>0}

Anonymous

Still 43 bytes for non-negative integer powers of 3, change a=3 to a=1

@JanDvorak what?

nobody said "integer power"

@LeakyNun JavaScript (ES6), 20 bytes: f=n=>n<2?n==1:f(n/3)

Anonymous

3:09 AM

@LeakyNun 39: remove the space between n and [

>Negative Powers

@ASCII-only nice

x=xR³3\^rx-Lx< RProgN2, 14 Bytes. Positive Powers.

@xnor what did you have in mind?

10 imaginary internet points to whoever can work out how it works.

Anonymous

3:12 AM

@LeakyNun Please don't ping users to elicit CMC responses, especially if they're not currently present.

@Mego you misunderstood.

@LeakyNun yes

@ATaco generate (3^x, ..., 27, 9, 3), filter out input, check if length is smaller than input.

@LeakyNun Ding ding ding

@ATaco You might want to refactor your language. Programs take unreasonably long time to run.

3:25 AM

But that's like, esolang street cred++.

Apparently it takes Real time: 0.302 s

right, parsing isn't the issue.

The actual delay is in execution.

I suspect the issue is that you use strings too much.

Probably.

3:26 AM

e.g. is mapping done by strings?

Yep, I come from a Lua Background.

Strings are my lyfe

@ATaco what is this for?

Try it online!

@ATaco strings are slow

The same program as before, with an halt inserted at the start.

I think a majority of the program's slowness would probably come from the amount it redundantly loops.

3:27 AM

@LeakyNun Will n be positive?

That one in particular creates a stack from i - n, then, goes back over and replaces each entry with 3^n, then it goes back through the stack and removes all entries = x.

@Dennis yes

Destructible Lemon

I tried to optimise my turtlèd interpreter once but I made it slower

@ATaco It doesn't seem to be working for me

@DestructibleLemon pls link

Destructible Lemon

I didn't save it

3:28 AM

@DestructibleLemon can I say that your optimization... turtled it?

4

Probably because it's instantly halting in that particular link.

@LeakyNun In that case, Python 2, 30 bytes.

@Dennis nice

Destructible Lemon

@Dennis how does this parse with the == and <?

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Infinite Sequence of Unique Random Integers Output an infinite sequence of positive integers, such that, for each element in the sequence, all positive integers that have not yet been output have a positive probability of being chosen, and no value is repeated. For example, if the first integer...

3:31 AM

Oh no Charcoal isn't doing this very quickly, should I refactor?

@DestructibleLemon Chained comparison, like in math (e.g., 1<2<3).

Destructible Lemon

I'm going to make a fizz buzz answer in Turtlèd

@Dennis ty

@ASCII-only 0.275 s

@Dennis TIL chained comparison works with ==

Yeah, around the same speed as RProgN

:37400380 github.com/somebody1234/Charcoal/wiki/Commands

@LeakyNun Works with everything, including in.

3:33 AM

There's also an operators page

@Dennis wat

:37400380 verbose mode (in case you were wondering what it does)

@LeakyNun tio.run/nexus/python2#@19QlJlXomCokJmnoGGkY6xjqGmnYagDZGn@/w8A

@Dennis wat is dis whichkraft

Huh, did not know it worked with in (or not in).

3:35 AM

@ASCII-only is this stacks (postfix notation)?

@LeakyNun prefix, non stack

:o

@ASCII-only are 0-9 used?

@LeakyNun All printable ASCII is part of a string (It's an ASCII-art orientet language after all)

@ASCII-only ok thanks

@LeakyNun I wrote up the proof

3:40 AM

alright

actually, i think i can use a different result for a simpler proof

Destructible Lemon

the thing about writing fizz buzz in Turtlèd is that you don't have a usable register, and it is incredibly ungolfy to copy a number

if you wanted to just copy a number and then increment it

Destructible Lemon

4:02 AM

I'm testing what I have so far. hopefully it doesn't infinite loop or exceed the time limit

;_; why is my interpreter so bad

ok it took too long

CMC: Output the input

@Arjun JavaScript, _=>_, 4 bytes

Destructible Lemon

@Arjun you mean like simple cat program?

except it doesn't have to print I guess

Yeah, probably

Destructible Lemon

what I have for my fizz buzz so far

Nice! Is it a challenge on main site?

4:16 AM

@Arjun Charcoal, 1 byte: Ｓ

Another CMC : Calculate Pi to n digits

I will award a star to the shortest solution in JavaScript

@Arjun Charcoal, 11 bytes: ＩＵＶN⟦ＵＧPiＮ⟧

Destructible Lemon

@Arjun yes

Link?

Please

Destructible Lemon

91

Q: 1, 2, Fizz, 4, Buzz

Introduction In our recent effort to collect catalogues of shortest solutions for standard programming exercises, here is PPCG's first ever vanilla FizzBuzz challenge. If you wish to see other catalogue challenges, there is "Hello World!" and "Is this number a prime?". Challenge Write a progra...

code-golf string kolmogorov-complexity arithmetic

@Arjun I needed to plug in my charger

4:30 AM

Oo, NP

Destructible Lemon

yeah the least golfy part will be converting the unary to numbers, simply because decimal incrementation requires a case for every digit

Destructible Lemon

4:55 AM

huh, I just made an accidental golf...

there was a gap in the logic, but it happened to be covered

:D how does this even happen

5:08 AM

@DestructibleLemon RNGesus

Destructible Lemon

are you calling my brain an rng

and that RNGesus has dominion over it?

@DestructibleLemon Yes because quantum mechanics

Destructible Lemon

but quantum mechanics isn't random?

@DestructibleLemon How is it not

user165474

@DestructibleLemon Would you mind explaining the logic behind this method?

Destructible Lemon

5:23 AM

well, the first part builds a triangle

this triangle will be used for each individual line to get the number

um

we do this because this is the easiest way to get a list of ascending numbers I think

user165474

Ah. Okay.

Destructible Lemon

or shortest I think probably

then we go through and replace lines with Fizz, by jumping three at a time

we place it 3 back because this is the minimum we can

then we go back and do the same with buzz. however, this is where the accidentally golfy thing happens

normally, you would want to move back to get in alignment with the triangles side

user165474

Ah okay. Looks like an interesting language, I might learn it sometime

Destructible Lemon

when writing fizzbuzz, you would be out of alignment

user165474

I see.

user165474

5:28 AM

Yeah the fizzes and buzzes are too far left

Destructible Lemon

you misunderstand

out of alignment as in too far right

however, it turns out that the way it is written I don't need to cover that case because when you move down from a fizz buzz you end on an asterisk anyway

user165474

Oh? Hm.

CMC for Python: given positive integer, find first digit arithmetically. code-golf python

Destructible Lemon

it's slightly hard to explain

user165474

Ah okay, I see.

user165474

5:31 AM

@LeakyNun So no using lambda x:str(x)[0]?

@HyperNeutrino yeah

@HyperNeutrino that's right

user165474

Okay.

f=lambda n:n<10 and n or f(n//10)

nice

Destructible Lemon

5:33 AM

but its based on the fact that buzz sticks inwards, which would I thought would be an issue, and in fact was something I planned to cover, but forgot, and I thought it might be an issue because it might land outside of a line, but of course the lines are too long for that.

user165474

@LeakyNun Also 33 bytes: f=lambda x:x if x<10else f(x//10)

nice

user165474

Pretty much the same thing :P

now do it in Jelly

also, we have quite a lot of questions for you in the jelly room

user165474

Er yeah, I haven't had much time to do extensive Jelly stuff lately

Destructible Lemon

5:37 AM

@LeakyNun how about them log builtins, huh?

@DestructibleLemon doesn't work for large numbers

Destructible Lemon

how?

@DestructibleLemon too long to import?

user165474

Jelly, 9 bytes:

user165474

:10
Ç>9$¿

user165474

5:39 AM

Oh :(

user165474

Wait how so?

user165474

Jelly, 8 bytes: :10$>9$¿

@HyperNeutrino there's obviously a shorter method

use the obvious way

@HyperNeutrino btw use ⁵ instead of `10

user165474

Oh

user165474

5:42 AM

@KennyLau Still arithmetically though, right?

of course.

user165474

Alright

user165474

Hey you changed your name

user165474

Did that just happen or am I just really slow

user165474

7 bytes: :⁵$>9$¿ but probably still not optimal

5:43 AM

Seems to have just happened

user165474

Yeah. Couldn't have been more than 7 minutes ago

SE is very confused about my username

I had this before

and then suddenly it became Leaky Nun again

because Kenny Lau is still in use in math.SE

so they would conflict.

user165474

?? well that is strange

nvm, continue working

user165474

And I don't see a more obvious method :(

5:45 AM

the answer is 2 bytes

user165474

I'd say DḢ but that seems like cheating

correct.

user165474

Oh wat

user165474

lol

user165474

Yay

5:47 AM

def to_base(integer, base, bijective = False):
	if integer == 0:
		return [0] * (not bijective)
	if bijective:
		base = abs(base)
	if base == 0:
		return [integer]
	if base == -1:
		digits = [1, 0] * abs(integer)
		return digits[:-1] if integer > 0 else digits
	sign = -1 if integer < 0 and base > 0 else 1
	integer *= sign
	if base == 1:
		return [sign] * integer
	digits = []
	while integer:
		integer -= bijective
		integer, digit = divmod(integer, base)
		digit += bijective
		if digit < 0:
			integer += 1

The implementation of D is purely arithmetic.

user165474

Oh okay. I see.

0

Q: Squaring Off (fit to smallest possible square)

Intro Every year, Dyalog Ltd. holds a student competition. The challenge there is to write good APL code. This is a language agnostic code-golf edition of this year's tenth problem. I have explicit permission to post this challenge here from the original author of the competition. Feel free to ...

code-golf string array-manipulation data-structures

Seems like it would be possible using æḟ⁵ but 1. not as golfy, 2. i have no idea how

user165474

I'm going to try FGITW'ing this in Jelly lol

O_o what does uneval do

5:58 AM

@ASCII-only essentially create a Jelly code that would evaluate to the given array/number/string

@ASCII-only Try it online!

Eval converts a string into an object of some kind, uneval takes an object of some kind and stringifies it.

Ifaik it's a fancy name for toString()

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May '1715

The Nineteenth Byte

The Nineteenth Byte: General discussion for codegolf.stackexc...

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