The Nineteenth Byte - 2017-05-04 (page 1 of 4)

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12:04 AM

so chat did stay up

Oh right maintainance

There are reviews and we are in read only mode. How?

Maybe they were put in the queue before read-only mode activated?

Nah I was in the queue when it activated

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

12:13 AM

Its killing me, I can see the reviews but I can't do them

codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/114945/reuse-your-code is in the queue as a first post

12:44 AM

@RohanJhunjhunwala sorry but I don't have the time, I've been really busy lately

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@Downgoat its ok. You got a lot of AP's?

Only the AP CS A on Tuesday but there is still finals, school issues, and other projects >_>

I had APES on Monday, and stats next Thursday

Oh and CS also.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@Downgoat yeah, rip this time. Well if u do get some time after school please do let me know

@Downgoat Heh, I took that also. Woo, writing code by hand...

1:05 AM

@ConorO'Brien Is there an online interpreter for INTJ? I remember there being one

@WheatWizard INTJ?

Er... NTFJ

my bad

@WheatWizard conorobrien-foxx.github.io/NTFJ

Thanks!

@WheatWizard yes there is

1:11 AM

@WheatWizard Just curious, what do you need NTFJ for?

120

Q: Add a language to a polyglot

This is an answer-chaining challenge in which each answer builds on the previous answer. I recommend sorting the thread by "oldest" in order to be sure about the order in which the posts are made. Note: This has become quite a long-lasting challenge, and posting new answers is fairly difficul...

polyglot answer-chaining

Ah

well then I sure hope it ignores unrecognized tokens

It seems not to. but it doesn't look like it errors

1:31 AM

make sure to "run it all at once"

Is there any way to get numbers larger than 255?

yeah

do you need numbers larger than 255?

the method is a tad convoluted

I would like to jump past the end of the program as quickly as possible so that extra stuff doesn't get in the way

Are there any errors at all in NTFJ?

check the console

darn

1:35 AM

you could try a zero skip

hm? Sounds intriguing

~(

skips to the next )

Oh yeah

thats my current strategy

Its just a little hard to do

I remember I was able to make larger numbers, hold on a sec

the code is 90% golfed, I should rewrite it

I was hoping to find a place to put NTFJ make sure it gets there safely and then jump out of the program asap

1:38 AM

^ when popping from an empty stack might work

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@Dennis How do I type a null byte (or other unprintable) into TIO?

code.value+="\0"

in the console

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@ConorO'Brien where?

press f12

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

thanks!

1:40 AM

@ConorO'Brien Popping from an empty stack seems to be just fine, I have yet to actually encounter an error

@WheatWizard you can use $ a few times to clear all items off the stack, then ^ to jump to the (non-existent) TOS

it doesn't error, it should silently terminate

Nice !

thanks so much

would saying "f(x) has at least O(g(x)) time complexity" be understandably equivalent to saying "f(x) has BigTheta(g(x)) time complexity"?

np :) link me to the answer when it's done?

Will do!

Does #* or ~* actually output anything?

user165474

1:48 AM

@HelkaHomba quora.com/What-is-big-Theta-notation/answer/…

@HyperNeutrino good evening

user165474

@LeakyNun Good evening; I won't have much time tonight by the way because I need to be up early tomorrow morning.

@WheatWizard Seems not I checked the console and there is no extra output

Alright @HyperNeutrino

user165474

@Yodle Interesting. I observed that you seem to be last seen very recently but last talked over a hundred days ago. Also, I believe you can just visit the tab and press <esc> in the chatbox to clear notifications. :P

1:53 AM

@HyperNeutrino ah you're right, thanks for the tip :P

user165474

Haha No problem :P

user165474

I'll be right back; I need to go finish something up quickly.

Is there a more specific name for O(2^N) than "exponential" to distinguish it from e.g. O(3^N)

power-of-2 time?

@HelkaHomba O(2^n) = O(3^n)

@LeakyNun I don't think so. By what constant do they differ? (math.stackexchange.com/q/512772/162582)

2:00 AM

@WheatWizard it does, just outputs \0 and \1

*\1 and \0

@HelkaHomba you're right, mathematically they are different.

@ConorO'Brien They don't actually show up in the console though?

but in programming we just refer to them as exponential time

@WheatWizard they aren't outputted to the console, they're outputtedbelow the HR

or else, every function of the form 2^poly(x) would need to have a new name

2:01 AM

HR?

user165474

Question: If I want to make a chat bot, where should I start?

but O(2^n) != O(3^n), and there could be more granular names for common ones

like O(N^2) is squared time

@WheatWizard horizontal rule

why don't you just call it O(2^n)?

the line

2:02 AM

I don't know what that is.

8

Q: 2^n complexity algorithm

I need to implement and test an algorithm with a 2^n complexity. I have been trying to find one for a while. If there is any way I can acheive this by implementation -- with a exact complexity of 2^n that would be optimal. If anyone knows of a location I can find an example, or could help me im...

algorithm complexity-theory analysis

"2^n complexity"

user165474

@WheatWizard Try typing this into your browser's omnibox: data:text/html,Hello<hr />World

ok

Challenge impossible for Jelly: given an array of positive integers, add 1 to each integer, with O(n) time complexity and O(1) space complexity, where n is the number of the elements of the array.

user165474

Does anyone here have experience with making chat bot(s)?

user165474

2:04 AM

Aww, not possible for Jelly? :(

Jelly just creates a new array

user165474

Oh, I see.

Jelly doesn't have in-place commands, except head and pop

user165474

I see.

user165474

Could I try to use those?

2:05 AM

It's still impossible.

user165474

That wouldn't work.

user165474

Hm.

user165474

Oh well.

user165474

Python, too many bytes: def f(x):for i in range(len(x)):x[i]+=1

user165474

Java, even more too many bytes: void f(x){for(int i=0;i<x.length;i++)x[i]++;}

2:07 AM

void f(x){for(int i=0;i<x.length;x[i++]++);}

user165474

Oh, nice.

however, such is possible in Pyth, which has for loops in addition to maps

user165474

Ah. I see.

user165474

Does anyone here know what the KeyEvent.VK_SOMETHING is for the character '[' in Java?

VUQ XNQ1;Q

user165474

2:10 AM

Interesting.

user165474

Pyth seems really good for golfing as well.

@HyperNeutrino VK_OPEN_BRACKET

@HyperNeutrino well, the usual solution would be hM...

user165474

Oh, I was looking for Left. Thanks :)

@HyperNeutrino you should try looking for "[" next time

user165474

@LeakyNun The complexity restrictions mess up a lot of potential solutions :P

2:11 AM

indeed

user165474

@LeakyNun I was looking using Ctrl-Space in Eclipse using VK_ as the starter. :P Probably should use docs instead.

user165474

What about for a backtick? I can't find one on the page for the search "`"

VK_BACK_QUOTE

user165474

Hm. Alright, thanks.

user165474

Oh, it doesn't describe itself.

user165474

2:17 AM

What is VK_SEPARATOR?

user165474

And what is |?

cool dude who makes techno music

@HyperNeutrino I think they mean the decimal point

@JanDvorak but then what is VK_DECIMAL?

oh

2:21 AM

@HyperNeutrino separator is comma

user165474

Oh, okay. Thanks.

user165474

Then what is VK_COMMA?

@HyperNeutrino the alphanumeric one?

user165474

@ConorO'Brien Would you be interested in joining this room?

user165474

@JanDvorak Are there two different types of commas?

2:23 AM

depends on how you type them

user165474

Hm.

@HyperNeutrino VK_BACK_SLASH

user165474

@LeakyNun So do I have to make the program press SHIFT and then BACKSLASH?

yes

user165474

Alright.

user165474

2:31 AM

Thanks.

@LeakyNun Impossible is such an ugly word. tio.run/nexus/jelly#@/…

12

@Dennis I believe it can be golfed, but you win

@Dennis the last line of your python code reminds me of reflection...

user165474

>_> Really Dennis, always coming up with a way to do everything. It is an ugly word; if I may say so without offending you, almost as ugly as that code? :P

user165474

I'm going to bed now (please don't 11 me Dennis D:). Goodnight all! :D

Good night!

2:49 AM

Why does this have a close vote?

@Dennis I just updated this answer after seeing your comment. I hope it's correct now.

3:11 AM

Looks good.

Destructible Lemon

@ConorO'Brien just saying but we have a resident cool guy who makes music

yeah ik

Destructible Lemon

I would also fulfill "guy who makes music"

not cool though probably :P

:'P

@Dennis I still remember the times when language's couldn't have arbitrary eval, haha. That's the first thing that popped into my head when I saw that code

3:27 AM

@quartata The not so useful answer is someone thinks its unclear. However they don't seem to have left a comment so why they think it is unclear will remain a mystery

@ConorO'Brien Yeah, I pretty much wrote Jelly with TIO in mind. One of the first things I did after retiring v1 was to make Jelly unsafe for it. :P

haha

3:46 AM

what you do when you don't want to study for exams

6

@ConorO'Brien what does it do?

it implements a language

@ConorO'Brien did I recall a language wherein there is no addition?

I have a couple without obvious methods of addition, why?

@ConorO'Brien without addition, but with multiplication, exponentiation, and logarithm

3:53 AM

ah, that would be yup.

yup

no quick-ref?

Destructible Lemon

@ConorO'Brien kinda easy in a language where whitespace doesn't matter very much

@DestructibleLemon I didn't claim it was hard

@LeakyNun there is on the wiki

Destructible Lemon

cmc: make an ascii art interpreter in a lang where whitespace is significant (and the actual non-whitespace characters are significant (looking at you, wsf and whitespace))

@DestructibleLemon what does "ascii art interpreter" even mean?

3:55 AM

yeah

Destructible Lemon

look, this isn't an objective cmc

ok

actually, I should edit that

@ConorO'Brien I guess you don't have much precision then?

@LeakyNun It's arbitrary precision, why?

@ConorO'Brien but you have exp...

yeah the decimal places go out arbitrarily long

3:57 AM

@ConorO'Brien how do you input‌?

Destructible Lemon

I think I should work on a lang soon

ok maybe the m stands for "maybe kinda big" in my cmc

@LeakyNun Like this!

@DestructibleLemon as in, an interpreter written using ascii art forms?

@ConorO'Brien I'm amazed by your precision.

Destructible Lemon

@ConorO'Brien yes

like ntfjc thing you linked

@LeakyNun how so?

4:00 AM

@ConorO'Brien I clearly saw src += "stack.top=math.exp(stack.top);";

It generates a javascript program

I mean, how does exp work?

well

I mean, it pops x and pushes e^x

...

I mean its implementation in mathjs

um idk the mathjs source

4:02 AM

nvm

user image

9

Destructible Lemon

@Phoenix but most things in python are not dicts... wat

Jelly: What if everything was short?

Yup: What if everything was complex?

is it unlucky that my 2 challenges both have exactly 13 votes?

Destructible Lemon

4:06 AM

isn't that a decent score?

@MistahFiggins their number of answers also add up to 13

@DestructibleLemon 13 is unlucky

Brain-flak: what if every statement had a value?

O_o

@LeakyNun suposedly

13's my lucky number

Retina: What if everything was a regex?

Destructible Lemon

4:07 AM

I think woefully goes with malbolge or something

@Phoenix the last one though

Destructible Lemon

Woefully: what if we didn't know incredibly hard langs weren't that fun?

FWIW the last one is funny bc it's throwback to the name's origin (8th circle of hell)

Brainfuck: What if every program is executable in Brain-flak?

and it is duly named

Destructible Lemon

4:10 AM

@LeakyNun Brainfuck: what if we made the topic of esolangs pg-13?

Vim: What if we decided to use a text editor as a programming language?

Befunge 93: What if everything was 2D?

Destructible Lemon

@MistahFiggins Funge-98: what if everything was 2.5D?

Python 3: what if print was a fucntion?

Hexagony: What if storing everything in data was an absolute pain?

How about a 1.585d language?

Destructible Lemon

4:14 AM

um

can I say make it happen?

PHP: What if we wanted to make SQL injection easier? ~~ the image

Destructible Lemon

hey! you stole that from the image!

@DestructibleLemon attributed

LUA: What if everything was a table?

Destructible Lemon

PHP: what if we hated devs?

PHP: what if we made intercal but pretended it was serious?

4:20 AM

Haskell: What if all you could do was to ask the runtime nicely to run your program?

CMC: create a language based on biological reproduction

LOLCODE: HaHa, what if everything was a meme!

F#: What if Haskell ran on the .NET runtime?

Destructible Lemon

@MistahFiggins lolcode: what if we pretended different operator names makes something esoteric?

CMC: guess the minute NMP will post latest challenge

Ruby: What if we turned Perl into a real language?

@HelkaHomba 56

4:23 AM

27

Cubix: What if 2d languages were not a torus for once

Destructible Lemon

@MistahFiggins Cubix: what if we said cubes were 2d?

well, the surfaces of cubes are

Crystal: What if we made Ruby fast again?

1

Q: Powerprogramming: O(1^N), O(N^1), O(2^N), O(N^2) all in one

Write a program (or function) that exhibits four common big O time complexities depending on how it is run. In any form it takes in a positive integer N which you may assume is less than 231. When the program is run in its original form it should have constant complexity. That is, the complexit...

code-golf integer source-layout restricted-complexity set-theory

4:24 AM

@MistahFiggins we call them 2-spheres

Destructible Lemon

how long until someone calls this noise?

You just did

so, 0

It's only noise if it's distracting from a more important signal

2

the only other thing going on rn is guessing when NMP will post

and it already has

4:26 AM

I guess my CMC got lost in the non-noise :-D

@HelkaHomba I swear I have two programs satisfying the two double criterion

but I have no idea how to chain them together

MPS: What if we let the user write the language for us?

@LeakyNun Note that comments and multiline programs are allowed

I know

but when they are doubled, things mess up

e.g. we have a # b where # denotes comment

and you already know how that would end up

e.g. we have a " b, so b is not evaluated

however, double that gives a " b a " b...

I also tried "a" eval "b"

but eval isn't symmetrical

Destructible Lemon

is n^2+n = n^2?

4:31 AM

@DestructibleLemon yes

@HelkaHomba what do you think about what I just said?

Destructible Lemon

that would make it easily possible

@DestructibleLemon how do you get around the problem I mentioned?

let's try " a " b " so b is evaluated

Destructible Lemon

ok, let me have a go

double that gives " a " b "" a " b "

so we evaluated the wrong expression

is the digit-only esolang challenge still active?

Destructible Lemon

4:32 AM

ok so, if I replace the complexity operations with n, 1, n^2 etc

Seems fun, should be easy enough to get all 4 with a 2d language

@DestructibleLemon above, a is a code with O(1^n) complexity and aa is O(2^n)

b is O(n^1) and bb is O(n^2)

so somehow if I can chain a and b together, then I'm done

I already have a and b

@Helka you reverse all the bytes, right? So if there was an enter, you would reverse "A\nBCD" to "DCB\nA" right?

reddit.com/r/Ooer (Make sure subreddit style is enabled)

@MistahFiggins right (except the note about \r\n staying as \r\n)

4:34 AM

ok

Destructible Lemon

1; if x {2^n} x=True# eurT=x }n^2{ x fi backwards n

Like A\r\nBCD -> DCB\r\nA

Destructible Lemon

ok so, somewhat confusing, but anyway

also with a trailing newline

replace n^2 with a backwards n^2 operation, and so on for others

and you are good

@LeakyNun well, maybe find a language where eval is just e? (tbh I rarely try to solve these source-layouts myself and wait to see what amazing stuff you guys cook up :P)

@HelkaHomba in Pyth, the eval is .v

4:37 AM

is there a way to prevent a website from downloading things automatically?

in Jelly, a string reversed don't give you back a string

Destructible Lemon

I did it I win?

@HelkaHomba feedback on the pseudo code I did, excepting feedback about bad layout and ungolfiness prolly

looks promising

Destructible Lemon

I think I could even do this in Turtlèd

NodeJS: What if everything was Javascript?

Destructible Lemon

4:40 AM

even though it has no comments, I could get similar effect with )<>%(%<>), % being characters the pointer will never be on, and <> being code

Whitespace:

11

@ATaco TeamSpirit borked

user image

Oh, I see.

Let me unbork that.

Destructible Lemon

is it borked because red is winning at the moment?

I could see how such an issue would be unforeseen

ಠ_ಠ

4:48 AM

Update pushed, should not break in future.

Destructible Lemon

@Phoenix fixed it for you

And I know names are still borked.

@ATaco ^_^

It should also run slightly faster.

Wait, what's wrong with names?

4:50 AM

Some names don't display with the script on; See ETH.

Destructible Lemon

I liked it better when stickies still counted

So, really odd experience: I had an issue with IntelliJ the other day, and found the issue on their tracking system. It had 2 comments from 2012 and 2013. I commented on it, giving it a +1, and 2 days later, its fixed

@ATaco Feature request for chat formatting: <C-b> and the rest insert **|** where | is your cursor. Pressing <C-b> while ** is directly to the right of the cursor skips over the two instead of insering anything.

I'm not sure whether its the fact that I'm a paying customer, or simply that it was a super easy fix, but I'm certainly happy

@NathanMerrill Cool, what was the issue?

4:55 AM

@Phoenix I didn't expect anyone to even download chatformatting.

youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-89648

What's Guice?

google's dependency injection library

@ATaco ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@Phoenix So you want it to skip over formatting characters when nothing is selected? That is, |** + <c-b> = **|?

4:57 AM

2

Q: Insist on an answer

At runtime, keep prompting for a line of input until the user inputs something (other than an empty newline), i.e. does not just press Enter or OK. Output or result is neither required nor prohibited. Pseudo-code 1 myform = new form("GUI") myform.mytxt = new editfield("") myform.ok = new button...

@ATaco Yeah. So [<C-b> stuff <C-b>] makes it bold and doesn't insert garbage, but [<C-b> stuff] at the end of a message also makes it bold without a closing <C-b>

I still don't follow.

Basically, yes.

The point is, I should be able to press <C-b> once and everything from there to the end of the line is bold. If there's just a floating ** then it quietly does nothing.

That's a bold suggestion

5:18 AM

I don't know if you guys have seen this answer but its really cool and clever

7

A: Surprise Party for Brain-Flak

Haskell, (10119 7767 7626 7540 bytes), score 15 14 10 (<>)(<><>)(<>)(<<>>)()=(((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)((<>)(<><>)))))))))))))))))))))...

5:33 AM

@Helka I'm working on your challenge now, and it will be a pain to explain

0

A: Powerprogramming: O(1^N), O(N^1), O(2^N), O(N^2) all in one

Python 3, 102 bytes try:l=eval(input());k=1#)]0[*k**l(tnirp except:k=2#2=k:tpecxe print(k**l*[0])#1=k;))(tupni(lave=l:yrt Try it online! Reversed: try:l=eval(input());k=1#)]0[*l**k(tnirp except:k=2#2=k:tpecxe print(l**k*[0])#1=k;))(tupni(lave=l:yrt Try it online! Doubled: try:l=e...

Is it a problem with SE that the comment on the third line of my entry is not in grey?

@Dennis ^ (pinging you in case you know who to refer to)

What does SE use for syntax highlighting?

how would I know

meta.stackexchange.com/a/184109/336401 it uses Google's highlighter

oh, never mind then

5:44 AM

Maybe a bug in Google Code Prettifier?

> Therefore, any bugs and feature requests regarding syntax highlighting cannot be handled by Stack Exchange and should be directed to the team behind Google Code Prettify.

github.com/google/code-prettify/issues/449

an issue is already submitted before

Oh

@Dennis please ignore my previous ping, thank you.

5:56 AM

@flawr m.imgur.com/gallery/llvauCZ

@Phoenix Done, but you'll need to manually update.

I live near Seattle.

@ATaco Oh? Why's that?

Also TY

Because I didn't include an update URL.

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May '174

The Nineteenth Byte

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