The Nineteenth Byte

I first started to learn Python through Codecademy because I wanted to learn to code video games, but I lost interest pretty quickly because I realized I was only going to learn to do text-based things

Then I found the block-based editor Stencyl and used that for a while, and gradually moved into actually writing code with Haxe

I think I found JS and PPCG at about the same time, and I've been using JS and golfing ever since

Arjun

How old are you? (Sorry if I am being too nosy!)

ETHproductions

I'd rather not give a number, but I'm in my last year of high school (which I think you'd know as secondary school, if you're from India)

What about you?

Arjun

I am 13

user165474

1:54 PM

I wonder what the age distribution of (active) PPCG users looks like.

ETHproductions

Cool, how long have you been programming?

Arjun

I guess about 3 years

Kritixi Lithos

@ETHproductions That's what happened to me too, except that I grew bored of console JS (which was what was taught in codecademy), so I moved onto with ProcessingJS on KA

ETHproductions

@HyperNeutrino Everyone whose age I know is in the range 13-22 or so, though there are some prominent users I don't know about

Anonymous

I remember a strawpoll that happened a while back to determine the age distribution

Anonymous

1:56 PM

13-22 is a large portion of our userbase, but there are some considerably older users (Dennis, Peter, Justin, etc)

Fatalize

I think there has been more than one such strawpoll

ETHproductions

I think Geobits is the only ones I know for sure is older than 22

user165474

@ETHproductions Oh, okay. Interesting. I mean like if we were to make a heatmap of activity (measured objectively by something, maybe posts) over age I wonder what it would look like.

Luke

I can confirm that I am also in the age range 13-22

ETHproductions

Searching for said strawpoll, I just randomly came across Dennis's age

Luke

1:59 PM

Ohh, tell me

Kritixi Lithos

I guess most people would be going to high-school/secondary school or uni

ETHproductions

Here's one

user165474

I'm in my first year of high-school right now, I know one PPCG user who's in grade 7 right now (or 8, I can't remember)

ETHproductions

Now I'm trying to figure out who just cast the 21-25 vote :P

Luke

Yeah

Fatalize

2:01 PM

I did

I'm old

:(

user165474

25 years old "I'm old :("

Fatalize

25 is the beginning of the end

ETHproductions

Source

Fatalize

you get dumber, weaker, etc.

Luke

It's not, trust me

seshoumara

2:01 PM

@Fatalize right there with you 25+

user165474

@Fatalize No, it's the end of the beginning.

user165474

Well okay, yes, I guess it is scientifically backed up that your health starts deteriorating after age 25.

Kritixi Lithos

I think it's just PPCG (maybe a few other sites) that has a high proportion of young users

Fatalize

Thankfully I look like a 16 yo kid which helps

ETHproductions

Dennis was 32 when that was posted, he didn't vote though

user165474

2:03 PM

@KritixiLithos That would make sense. Stack Overflow might have a relatively older age distribution because mostly developers use it, but I don't know for sure, it could be similar.

Luke

I suppose people get too busy with important things when they get a job, and they are generally too dumb to code before the age of 12

ETHproductions

And also I think it's illegal to own an SE account if you're under 13

seshoumara

We can call Dennis The Ancient one

user165474

@Luke Hey, I started coding when I was 9... :P

user165474

Then again I was rather bad at it.

Fatalize

2:04 PM

Pretty sure there are people older than Dennis

Luke

Note the "generally"

I learned how to code around the age of 13

Kritixi Lithos

@HyperNeutrino I didn't understand how arrays worked when I was 10-11-ish

Fatalize

I think Ton Hospel is older than 32

Luke

Python->C++->Assembly->Java->JavaScript->PHP->SQL->Cubix->Brainfuck

user165474

@ETHproductions Oh well... um... I created my account two weeks before I turned 13... whoops :)

Anonymous

2:06 PM

I started learning to code at 15. It took me a solid year to figure out pointers in C/C++.

seshoumara

:)

ETHproductions

> Cubix

:D

user165474

@KritixiLithos I mostly just knew how to I/O with Python and like if-statements and arithmetic.

user165474

@Mego I've been trying to understand them for a year now and I still don't get it entirely... :(

Luke

Yes, Cubix is the best language I know

user165474

2:07 PM

Python->Javascript->Java->C/C++

betseg

I accidentally voted 10-15 at the time that poll was posted (my birthday was a few days earlier, and I turned 16) and now I voted 16-20

user165474

I have an idea: Run a script that takes a list of users, maps it to emails, looks through all profiles that have an age attached to it

user165474

Not sure if the email is publicly accessible though

Anonymous

@HyperNeutrino Let's say you have int a = 5; That value is stored somewhere in a memory location. For chuckles, we'll say that memory location has the address 0xCAFEBABE (in hex). If you do int* b = &a;, b now holds the value 0xCAFEBABE. You can then do *b = 6;, which modifies the value at 0xCAFEBABE from 5 to 6. Since a is a name for the value stored at 0xCAFEBABE, a now equals 6.

Anonymous

That's pointers in a nutshell

betseg

2:11 PM

@HyperNeutrino woah

Anonymous

@HyperNeutrino Email addresses are not publicly accessible. Only moderators can see them.

ETHproductions

@KritixiLithos I'm the opposite: I got into JS through KA, then moved to console JS when I found PPCG

user165474

@Mego Oh, okay. Thanks. That makes a lot more sense now. So a is the value at that specific address, and b is the address itself, right?

user165474

@Mego Then convince Dennis to do that for us >:-D

Luke

JS is a nice language because it constantly surpises you

user165474

2:12 PM

JS is a bad language because semicolons aren't required :( (just kidding :D)

Luke

[1,2,3,4,4]["fill"](0) should not work, but it does...

betseg

What does it do?

Luke

It replaces the values in the array [1,2,3,4,4] by 0 and returns that

user165474

That is very hacky. It happens a lot with languages where functions are objects.

user165474

Like JS, Python, etc.

Luke

2:14 PM

Is that possible in python as well?

Anonymous

@Luke That's like saying dimethylmercury is a nice compound because it constantly surprises you

user165474

@Mego There's a slight difference in that JS doesn't kill you right away.

Luke

Cyanide on the other hand, only surprises you once

11

Anonymous

@Luke Not like that. You can do getattr(foo, "some_method"), but that's sane and explicit

betseg

you can drink cyanide in your entire liftime

Anonymous

2:16 PM

@HyperNeutrino Citation needed

Luke

@betseg Citation needed

user165474

hah um I haz none

Anonymous

@HyperNeutrino Essentially, yeah. Referring to the identifiers as the values isn't quite right, but it's close enough for a beginner.

Anonymous

A simple pointer example

user165474

@Luke it's not possible using that method, but functions are objects so you can pass them to functions which I think it really nice and I wish Java did that too.

user165474

2:17 PM

(lambda functions don't count because they're objects with a method, not a function itself)

Luke

Apparently, JS can kill. It has yet to choose humans as victims though: quora.com/Did-server-side-JavaScript-kill-PHP

user165474

@Mego Okay, thanks! Yeah that kind of makes sense, so &a gives the address of a, but what exactly does * do?

Arjun

Bye to all! It's night time here : zzzzzzzzz!

Kritixi Lithos

@Mego What does the * do?

Anonymous

*b dereferences b

Anonymous

2:19 PM

It's the inverse operation of &a

betseg

@Arjun ZZ to exit vim?

Kritixi Lithos

@Mego ... what does that mean?

Luke

Good night

user165474

Oh okay. So like *a gives the "value" at the memory address a?

user165474

@Luke 'night

Luke

2:20 PM

I was wishing @Arjun a good night

Anonymous

&a means take the address of a (get a pointer to it). *b means dereference the pointer b (access the pointed-to value).

user165474

@Luke oh whoops I didn't see his message. #fail

Luke

Hehe

user165474

@Mego Ok, so will *&a return a (assuming that syntax is even valid)?

Luke

So I came up with a totally original question yesterday: convert a number to roman numerals. Sadly, that challenge already exists

Anonymous

2:21 PM

@HyperNeutrino I'm not 100% certain the syntax is valid, but theoretically yes.

Kritixi Lithos

What is the difference between a and *a then?

Luke

*(&a) sure is

ETHproductions

JS would be a lot better if you could use pointers or mess with operators

Anonymous

@KritixiLithos In this example, a is an int, so dereferencing it with *a doesn't make sense.

ETHproductions

Okay, maybe not "better", but definitely more interesting

Luke

2:23 PM

@ETHproductions Yes, definitely operators

English spelling is weird, BTW

Anonymous

@ETHproductions That's like saying guns would be more interesting if you couldn't tell if they were loaded :P

Fatalize

@Mego It would make sense if you're dumb and store adresses in ints

ETHproductions

@Mego Except that it's already hard to predict what JS's operators will do in certain scenarios :P

user165474

Does operator overriding exist in C/C++?

Poke

yes

user165474

2:26 PM

coolio

Anonymous

You can overload some, but not all, operators for user-defined classes

betseg

if i was programming a kernel in a dumb way and stored some registers in specific ram addresses, int a = 200; *a = 1; would make sense?

Anonymous

@betseg Sure, but you'd need to cast a to a pointer type before dereferencing it first.

user165474

Watch out for SIGSEGV though.

Anonymous

And it would be infinitely better to do int* a = (int*) 0xCAFEBABE; *a = 1;

Fatalize

2:27 PM

You would also get molested by your colleagues for referencing memory like that

betseg

tbf, i did say "in a dumb way"

Anonymous

"Beatings will continue until code quality improves"

Luke

Just code in assembly. That makes everything easier.

Fatalize

0xBABEFACE is a more attractive address

Luke

0xBADBEEF

user165474

2:29 PM

0xNOTVALID

betseg

0xFECABEBA oops wrong endianness

Erik the Outgolfer

0xBADBO1

Anonymous

Oh, my sweet summer children

Anonymous

0xCAFEBABE is the magic word at the start of Java class files

betseg

ik

Luke

2:31 PM

@HyperNeutrino, why benzene?

user165474

@Luke I don't exactly know, I like chemistry a bit and I happen to like hexagons as well. {chemistry ∩ hexagon} = {phenyl-groups} (not really)

Luke

Okay

user165474

@Mego omg actually I just checked it, that is so weird. Is there a particular reason?

Luke

Should've gone with cyclohexane, unless you like free electrons moving around

Anonymous

Java class file

A Java class file is a file (with the .class filename extension) containing Java bytecode that can be executed on the Java Virtual Machine (JVM). A Java class file is produced by a Java compiler from Java programming language source files (.java files) containing Java classes. If a source file has more than one class, each class is compiled into a separate class file. JVMs are available for many platforms, and a class file compiled on one platform will execute on a JVM of another platform. This makes Java applications platform-independent. == History == On 11 December 2006, the class file format...

Luke

2:34 PM

It's probably a joke of some guy coming up with the spec ages ago

user165474

@Mego Interesting, I did not know that class files had so much history behind it. :P We should be teaching this in History class!

Luke

Many other formats use 0xFFEF/0xFEFF as BOM.

trichoplax

I made the mistake of watching the Lego Movie, and now the "--everything-is-local" at the top of the git website is set to music in my head.

6

Anonymous

@trichoplax Great, now you've infected me too

trichoplax

Oops...

ETHproductions

2:38 PM

ahahaha, I'll never be able to forget that

user165474

Everything is awesome -> nothing is not-awesome -> the concept of unawesomeness does not exist -> non-existent things cannot have opposites -> the opposite of unawesomeness is awesomeness -> awesomeness does not exist -> things cannot be awesome -> -><- QED

Fatalize

Having that song stuck in your head is a small price to pay to watch this amazing movie

trichoplax

@HyperNeutrino Unfortunately that proof seems no less valid if you read the steps in reverse...

ETHproductions

@HyperNeutrino The flaw there is that something not existing doesn't imply its opposite not existing :P

Luke

I have a confession to make... I have not watched the Lego Movie

Riley

2:43 PM

If there is a string of comments about a golf that ended up not working, should I flag one (all?) of them as obsolete?

trichoplax

@Fatalize I thought that myself, until I noticed the git connection and realised I'm going to have it in my head for the rest of my life...

user165474

@trichoplax @ETHproductions I mean, I'm pretty sure besides the first step, all of the other steps are invalid. For example, just because nothing is not awesome doesn't mean that the concept doesn't exist, so if it makes sense backwards it's probably wrong.

Anonymous

@Riley If it's just a few comments, sure. If it's a lot of comments, custom-flag the answer.

trichoplax

@HyperNeutrino Yup. If it proves its own negation then there must be something wrong

user165474

@trichoplax I'm trying to think of a counterexample to that, but I can't think of one right now. Probably because one doesn't exist :P

trichoplax

2:50 PM

Probably :P

user165474

ok I gtg now. Bye everyone!

fergusq

It could be a proof by contradiction that there are things that are not awesome.

Luke

Bye

Lembik

Any views on codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/… ?

New Main Posts

0

Q: Not so good roads in Rnccia

Here in absolutely made up country Rnccia we have a lot of good stuff, but roads aren't one. There are lots of holes and just half of them get fixed. And only half of fixes are good. Your task is to embrase bad roads of this country and draw them for me. Input You will get two positive integer ...

DJMcMayhem

2:56 PM

"Here in absolutely made up country Rnccia we have a lot of good stuff, but roads aren't one." You also seem to be short on vowels. — Martin Ender ♦ 1 min ago

Lol

Riley

@Mego Just one or all?

Anonymous

@Riley My rule of thumb is flag them all if 3 or less, and custom flag the answer if there's more than 3

Riley

@Mego Okay, Thanks.

betseg

hmm, even if i put -O0 to compilation flags, if(!(a-5)) will still optimize to cmp $0x5,%al

Mistah Figgins

@Luke It's pretty hard to read that and not hear the first bit as part of a song

Jan Dvorak

3:04 PM

@betseg what would you expect?

betseg

to subtract 5 and check if it's 0?

Jan Dvorak

that's exactly what CMP does :-)

betseg

oh

Jan Dvorak

You could expect SUB AX, 5; TST AX, AX, but some optimisations are so easy that it's faster to just do them without thinking.

betseg

yeah i expected something like that

Jan Dvorak

3:09 PM

CMP means "subtract and discard the result"

Down Christopher

codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/112574/… What needs to be fixed before it can be opened

I didn't find anything wrong

ETHproductions

It looks good to me in its current state, though it was quite different when it was downvoted and closed

Down Christopher

It was

This one makes no sense why it was closed. I have no unresolved comments and I believe it is clear

ETHproductions

Um, it was closed before you made the edits, not after

It just hasn't been reopened yet

Down Christopher

Closed the 18th edited last the 16th

ETHproductions

3:18 PM

> closed as unclear what you're asking ... Mar 10 at 17:20

Down Christopher

ETHproductions

You must be talking about a different question, the one you linked is from March 10

Down Christopher

I was talking about the 2nd link

fəˈnɛtɪk

@ETHproductions This message

ETHproductions

Ohhh....... I totally did not see that link

I'm very sorry :(

Down Christopher

3:20 PM

It's all good

fəˈnɛtɪk

@DownChristopher You really should post your challenges to the sandbox though.

ETHproductions

That one was posted in the sandbox

I don't really see why it was closed, but I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding it

Down Christopher

@ETHproductions The rectangle specs are hard to understand but I didn't write them

ETHproductions

I believe 1 is a valid answer in some languages, correct?

Though obviously it wouldn't score very well

Poke

@DownChristopher I find it extremely useful to have sections in my challenges for "Input" and "Output" so that it's more clear what I'm asking. You may find it useful to add something similar. It's basically a quick reference so that readers don't need to read through the whole challenge every time they need a quick reference

Down Christopher

3:23 PM

@ETHproductions yes?

Poke

@ETHproductions hmm i think we're talking about different questions

ETHproductions

Oh right, sorry

Down Christopher

@Poke Done

ETHproductions

Anyway, I highly doubt the custom quine definition is worth it, because it basically just takes the standard definition and includes all-literal answers, which wouldn't score very high

Down Christopher

What one?

Oh that one.

ETHproductions

3:27 PM

You should probably include the code bowling rules in the post for completeness, btw

Hey look, you can use Ctrl+B while editing a post to make text bold

Down Christopher

A kid asked to use the restroom and the teacher said no, he just said he was going to go and just left

Riker

holy s*** I found an animal from AUS that's not dangerous

Tetragonula carbonaria

Tetragonula carbonaria (previously known as Trigona carbonaria) is a stingless bee, endemic to the north-east coast of Australia. Its common name is sugarbag bee. The bee is known to pollinate orchid species, such as Dendrobium lichenastrum, D. toressae, and D. speciosum. It has been identified as an insect that collects pollen from the cycad, Cycas media. They are also known for their small body size, reduced wing venation, and highly developed social structure comparable to honey bees. T. carbonaria forms honeycombs in their nests. The bee produces an edible honey; the whole nest is sometimes...

Down Christopher

@Riker Lies all lies. Everything is AUS is dangerous

ETHproductions

@DownChristopher Wow, did he get punished or anything?

Jan Dvorak

How about dropb... I mean, koalas?

Down Christopher

3:34 PM

@ETHproductions Idk she called a administrator and he is going to them

Jan Dvorak

@DownChristopher well, this could end up with a lawsuit

ETHproductions

@DownChristopher It looks good to me now.

Down Christopher

@ETHproductions yaya

@JanDvorak My thoughts

Riker

The Death Star Architect Speaks Out

►

quartata

@Mego relevant to your interests

Helka Homba

3:41 PM

CMC: site with most unique cookie warning

I vote jetbrains.com

Cookies help us improve our web content and deliver a personalized experience. By using this website, you agree to our use of cookies.
Type `man cookies' to learn more or `exit' to close.
~ root#

PhiNotPi

@HelkaHomba that's pretty cool

quartata

@Downgoat Why is .x NaN in Cheddar?

So is .o and .b so I'm guessing it's numeric literals

ETHproductions

Is . also NaN or does that throw an error or something?

betseg

@HelkaHomba nice try jetbrains ceo

:p

quartata

@ETHproductions No that throws an error

Riker

3:51 PM

@quartata omfg that is amazing

at first I thought it was just going to be music out of beeps/whistles/whatever

but no it's a display

10/10

Down Christopher

wow

quartata

I'll be honest, I was trying to start cheese not cheddar. Don't ask how I managed to fat-finger .x

Down Christopher

would watch but am at school

quartata

@Riker Yeah I don't know anything about Factorio but it's cool

Down Christopher

Please ping me with that url in like 30 seconds. Thanks!

Riker

3:54 PM

@quartata cc @Sherlock9 also, he likes factorio iirc

Okx

@HelkaHomba Any news site saying cookie law is going to be removed, but there's a cookie banner at the bottom

Riker

@DownChristopher youtube.com/watch?v=mgfwwqwxdxY

Okx

"The only video on YouTube that looks better in 144p than in 1080p."

Riker

yes

quartata

Actually true, I tried it.

Riker

3:56 PM

lol

lol [no-repro] just a blurry mess in 144

user165474

What is this?

Riker

the video?

@HyperNeutrino factorio is a game, where you place down machines and stuff and build factories

google for more info

Jan Dvorak

@Okx link

user165474

can't :( it's blocked on by my school filter. but that looks interesting, so is the video like an animation made by factories or something?

Riker

but you can place down lights, and this guy made a whole display, and played (at least the video part, if not the audio)

@HyperNeutrino can you see imgur?

or stack.imgur, either one

user165474

3:59 PM

Neither.

Okx

silktide.com/the-stupid-cookie-law-is-dead-at-last

Riker

@HyperNeutrino it's basically that yeah

but it's the video of darude - sandstorm

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Self-Generator code-golfquine Challenge: Create a program that, given no input, outputs n programs (in the same language, but not necessarily the same language as the original program) separated by newlines, where each of those programs will print a section of the original program. When these se...

user165474

Question: How do I find what my question record is, and how is it calculated?

ais523

from memory, the formula's something like the ratio of the number of questions, to the number of closed + deleted + downvoted questions

where if a question is closed, deleted, and downvoted, it counts for 3

the badges which require a positive question record will, if you set them as your "currently aimed-for badge" and hover the progress, let you know whether you have one or not

but not how far you are above the threshold

DJMcMayhem

4:08 PM

@ais523 That's exactly right. > 0.5 == 'positive record'

user165474

Okay. I'm trying to get the Curious badge, but my record is negative apparently.

user165474

Thanks.

ais523

try looking through your past questions and seeing if they're fixable

getting them undeleted, undownvoted, or unclosed all help

user165474

I have 12 and 3 of them are closed, none are downvoted, and I'll look for deleted ones

ais523

(total questions - negative questions - closed - deleted)/total questions >= 0.5

user165474

4:12 PM

How do you look at your deleted questions?

betseg

1 / 1 >= 0.5

how many are needed?

Riker

@HyperNeutrino user:me deleted:1

ais523

@Riker HyperNeutrino doesn't have enough rep to use that command

Riker

oh, nvm

ais523

and in order to use it on someone else, you need to be a diamond mod I think

at least, I have every non-diamond permission and I'm not allowed to use it

(except dupehammer but I doubt that's relevant here)

Anonymous

4:15 PM

Dupehammer is always relevant

2

user165474

Oh, okay. Yeah, it doesn't seem to work.

user165474

Yeah I have relatively little rep here.

Riker

@HyperNeutrino yeah, tha'ts cool, just noting it should be [code-challenge]

Anonymous

@quartata That's pretty neat. @Sherlock9 would also be interested

Riker

no harm done

@Mego alraedy pinged him

double pings are ok though I guess

Anonymous

4:17 PM

Oops I missed that

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Block Puzzle A popular brain teaser commonly known as a the "IQ Block Puzzle" is comprised of 8 colored shapes which can be rotated, moved and flipped on a 8x8 grid. The puzzle is known as a geometric magic square. Challenge The challenge is to generate and then output all 40 possible patter...

DJMcMayhem

@Riker technically you don't need user:me since it won't show posts from other users either way

Riker

hm true

DJMcMayhem

(excluding diamonds of course)

Stupid mobile

Riker

lol

user165474

4:23 PM

Question: Does each StackExchange site have its own Community bot?

DJMcMayhem

It's just a database entry really

Riker

@HyperNeutrino nope

fwiw, the ppcg discord people are still alive

we're prolly gonna voice chat for a bit soon, anybody wants to participate feel free

user165474

@Riker Okay. Also, I can't use Discord at school, sadly :(

Riker

:(

user165474

Best answer ever: diy.stackexchange.com/questions/110753/…

DJMcMayhem

4:32 PM

Flagged

It's clearly NAA

user165474

Yeah, it's 1% funny but 99% useless IMO

betseg

Juic avocad? Right that was a question

user165474

ok I just joined a new community and got +100 rep and I was like "wait what why did I just get 100" and then I realize that site association. :P

Kritixi Lithos

@betseg but it was deleted

btw this message was sent via Quill's SE chat terminal

Conor O'Brien

Interesting polyglot structure between Py2 and Py3

class A:
 def f(s):print("Hello, World!")
class B(A):pass
class C(A):
 def f(s):print("Goodbye, World!")
class D(B,C):pass
D().f()

New Main Posts

4:48 PM

-2

Q: Graphics c++ what should I use?

I want to do a c++ game with a graphics program. What should I use?

graphical-output game

user165474

@NewMainPosts (closed already)

Erik the Outgolfer

It wasn't when @NewMainPosts oneboxed it.

Mistah Figgins

@NewMainPosts Howd I do on my comment?

Kritixi Lithos

+1

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Secret Santa code-golfmath Goal: Given a list of names with public keys, assign each person a name, encrypt it with their public key and print the list of gifters with their encoded giftees. Introduction My family wanted to get a head start on Secret Santa (so they can shop sales though out t...