The Nineteenth Byte

Anonymous

2:00 PM

Since the SE team seems opposed to not going through with that design, I would prefer either it be opt-in or that it's only for SO/M.SO

Anonymous

@JanDvorak I'm failing to parse that sentence

Metoniem

"They know they shouldn't do it, but they still do" is what I understand from it

Jan Dvorak

Sounds too much like the Joel's stand thing

TuxCopter

what

Rainbolt

@Fatalize How clever does one need to be to see this?

Kritixi Lithos

2:11 PM

Stack Overflow is stackoverflow.com? mind = blown

Rainbolt

I came into the room expecting to see exactly these types of negative comments and I was not disappointed. Give it a few weeks and you'll like it.

Anonymous

@Rainbolt More clever than the people who think PPCG is SO

Fatalize

@Rainbolt You think people who post completely offtopic things on PPCG all the time look at this?

They search something on Google and end up here, they certainly didn't read where they were

Rainbolt

That's not the right question. The question is: Do I think they look at it any more than they look at the other banners? No.

Anonymous

@Rainbolt I don't know that I'll like it, but I'll probably be used to it enough to tolerate it

Jan Dvorak

2:13 PM

I know they said this change is permanent, but surely when they hear how much we're complaining someone will find a way to change things back.

Fatalize

Also why the hell does the search bar expands when you click in it

and more importantly why does it expend TO THE LEFT when we use a left to right language

Jan Dvorak

mobilification

TuxCopter

uhhh what?

Anonymous

19 mins ago, by Fatalize

I have "Software Engineer to help fighting terrorism" in my featured list in Jobs

Anonymous

You've been ninja'd

Fatalize

2:15 PM

"Both previous tests showed great results: users shown the new top nav clicked navigation links 143% more than those shown the current design"

Laughable; that's because they misclick all the time

Anonymous

I do wonder how many of those clicks were because the top nav bar is sticky

Anonymous

I clicked all of the navigation buttons trying to figure out which one is for the review queues

Fatalize

You only have to read the hover text, obviously

so ergonomic

Anonymous

And mobile users can just suffer, apparently

Jan Dvorak

They already do

Anonymous

2:18 PM

Yeah, the mobile app is pretty not-great

Anonymous

Can't even do reviews on it

Kritixi Lithos

You can't see deleted submissions, can't see vote counts, can't arrange answers in any way other than by votes, ...

Jan Dvorak

Use the app

Kritixi Lithos

I'm talking about the app :P

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Mathematical Creativity At our workplace we are so creative that sometimes we decide that today the number 2=9, 0=231 or 67=2... just for the sake of it. So for that day everyone in the workplace must consider that fact. Your task is to write a full program or function that takes as input today...

Anonymous

2:26 PM

@KritixiLithos Yeah it still has a lot of work needed before it's comparable to the actual site

flawr

@Riker /r/shittyaskscience is really my new favourite=)

"Did NASA invent thunderstorms to cover up the sound of space battles?"

muddyfish

Is it ok to have programs give invalid output if terminated before completion (assuming it is meant to finish)?

flawr

I don't think so, I think we have a consensus somewhere

AdmBorkBork

@muddyfish You mean like if someone does a ctrl-c on it?

muddyfish

@AdmBorkBork yeah

Anonymous

2:38 PM

If you don't allow a program to run to completion, I don't know why you would expect to get correct output

AdmBorkBork

Precisely.

Anonymous

That doesn't seem like the kind of thing we need a meta discussion on - that should be common sense

Jan Dvorak

Most of mine say foo/bar.rb:42 in `block in <main>': Interrupt

muddyfish

cool. I just added a feature to pyke so it doesn't end up with no output if terminated early (like when the auto-timeout occurs)

AdmBorkBork

> On two occasions I have been asked, "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. — Charles Babbage

Riker

2:51 PM

@flawr yeah it's epic

I still like dndgreentext though

Christopher Peart

3:12 PM

Just lied on a test for a point

I said that I love econ and personal finance

Wrote it up top

AdmBorkBork

I <3 $

Does that count?

Business Cat

@AdmBorkBork I♥$ is 1 byte less

Poke

tfw stackoverflow gets a new design before codegolf

16

Riker

I<3$ is 2 bytes less

Christopher Peart

Can't send images in Mobile

AdmBorkBork

3:19 PM

Have we had a challenge based on finding the largest number of n digits in a grid that is x by x digits?

My search-fu is failing me.

Christopher Peart

m.imgur.com/VMOnY4L bleh school

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Milking the cows When I was a kid, we used to play a card game called "Milking the cows". I have no idea why it was called that, as it had nothing to do with said activity, but whatever. For months we would play furiously, seeing who was best at this game. It wasn't until years later that I rea...

AdmBorkBork

@AdmBorkBork Dangit, this one by Helka is pretty close to what I was thinking. His only goes in cardinal directions and in a straight line. I was thinking of allowing full 8-way movement on the search so long as you didn't repeat a digit.

Would that be different enough to not be a dupe?

New Main Posts

5

Q: Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release

Many sound synthesizers define the envolope of the sound (the way loudness changes with time) by means of four parameters, as represented in the following figure from Wikipedia: Attack time (A): time taken for the envelope to reach its maximum level, starting from zero, when the key is first pr...

Poke

3:36 PM

Any of you read SO's blog post on their new design? Some of the statistics they have in here seem unreal stackoverflow.blog/2017/02/…

Riker

@flawr ELI5 taylor series?

Christopher Peart

Anyone know of a ceaser cypher challenge?

Business Cat

21

Q: Caesar Shifting

A Caesar shift is probably something we're all familiar with. (You might be even doing it as a homework task. If so, please don't copy these answers, your teacher almost certainly doesn't want anything like the answers here.) Just in case you aren't, a Caesar shift is a very simple form of cip...

code-golf string cipher

Christopher Peart

Ty

Fatalize

Imagine if we got the bottom one

Riker

3:46 PM

;-;

AdmBorkBork

Code-Golf 3 confirmed.

Lembik

hi all.. I have a programming question! :)

I would like to test the speed of this small C loop using different compiler flags and compilers bpaste.net/show/58d6d91f1827 . What's a good way to do it or could anyone give me a hand kindly?

Riker

@flawr just watched cat + toasters: 10/10 there should be an entire subreddit for that

Malivil

@Riker /r/catsvstechnology might be close

Riker

lol

quartata

4:04 PM

@wat That edit was grossly unnecessary

I wish I could delete that question

Fatalize

which one?

quartata

The stupid avocado challenge.

muddyfish

@quartata is there another one?

Fatalize

Add that to the list of feature-request of the site

quartata

I mean, it's an OK challenge if you take the context out.

muddyfish

4:06 PM

I rembemer at least 2 that have been deleted

quartata

@muddyfish this one

muddyfish

How does codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/60206/… have an undelete vote?

quartata

Because of stupid memes.

Jan Dvorak

Lingering self-vote?

quartata

It's really pissing me off at this point.

@JanDvorak No, the user was deleted long before that vote showed up.

Fatalize

4:08 PM

More importantly why does it have 14 stars

quartata

Besides they couldn't have voted to undelete it

muddyfish

I stared it so I can get a quick link to it

for conversations such as these

Fatalize

I have never favorited anything

AdmBorkBork

Don't undelete votes expire?

Lembik

maybe my question was too boring :(

muddyfish

4:10 PM

here's another deleted one

quartata

@Lembik No it's just that people in this room are too consumed by memes to entertain programming conversation. You might want to check this out

I like this library for microbenchmarks, but I'm not aware of any good tools for testing across different compilers: github.com/google/benchmark

That you'll have to do by hand.

Christopher Peart

@quartata Yep

muddyfish

@quartata is there a more strict set of rules that are expected there?

@quartata Or the people currently here don't know the answer

Lembik

@quartata I don't mind juts recompiling by hand.

quartata

@muddyfish No. We're currently relying on people not knowing about it and naturally discovering it, which is why I now kind of regret mentioning it and it inevitably ending up on the starboard.

Lembik

4:14 PM

@quartata that link took me to a chat but I am not sure which part is relevant?

muddyfish

@quartata (I didn't star for precisely that reason)

quartata

@muddyfish That's possible, although my current grumpy mood is leaning towards the other conclusion more strongly

Lembik

@quartata oh that's all C++. Hmm...

quartata

@Lembik Yeah, but it's not a huge deal. You can pretty much copy-paste the C++ boilerplate and use your regular C function for the actual operation

Lembik

@quartata gulp :)

C++ scares me

quartata

4:15 PM

@Lembik I suppose the obvious way to start then is with -O1, -O2, -O3 and -Os.

Christopher Peart

I can remove it from the star board

Lembik

@quartata yes.. I want to compare clang and gcc too

Christopher Peart

(I stared it)

muddyfish

you can only unstar stuff for a certain period of time

Christopher Peart

I just unstar it

quartata

4:16 PM

@Lembik I think the most obvious optimization that will happen here is that the loop will be unrolled. That'll happen on -O2 even so

Christopher Peart

Hmm

Lembik

@quartata It's a little odder than that. godbolt.org/g/HRv4TD

Christopher Peart

Trying to figure how to parse Fluff

Lembik

@quartata I want to see which is really faster

muddyfish

@ChristopherPeart you actually called it that?

Christopher Peart

4:19 PM

Yep

@muddyfish I mean why not?

muddyfish

@ChristopherPeart no reason. There wasn't really a reason to call it that either apart from me telling you to

Christopher Peart

I liked the name

Lembik

@quartata it feels like this shouldn't be so hard!

quartata

@Lembik huh

Lembik

"huh" has too many possible interpretations :)

AdmBorkBork

4:22 PM

@Lembik Huh?

Lembik

:)

muddyfish

@Lembik generally implies confusion

quartata

@muddyfish More curiosity in this case

Lembik

aha.. what is the main point of curiosity?

maybe there is a ppcg challenge hiding in here somewhere :)

Christopher Peart

Trying to figure out how to parse Fluff

quartata

4:24 PM

Both appear to unroll the loop but GCC is doing weird jumps. It's tough to read the assembly so I'm not sure why.

Lembik

@quartata I think gcc is trying to align stuff

which I suspect is not worth the cost

muddyfish

@ChristopherPeart write a spec and some example's of how it should unwind if it's particularly complex

Lembik

@quartata basically I want to report a bug :)

Christopher Peart

@muddyfish Unwind?

muddyfish

@ChristopherPeart if it's like most golf langs, each character is a token?

and they have arguments to each other

so creating a call tree I guess

Pyke for example has a very simple parser in that regard

the code is literally parsed like a tree and the next character decides if a branch should be terminated or created

for example some simple code in tree form:

    "hello world"Fp)q

    -->

     hello world"
    "            F  q
                  p)

where each line represents a seperate branch and the central one is the main branch

Christopher Peart

4:31 PM

huh

muddyfish

That's how pyke does it for example

more complex languages use grammars instead of trees but I don't know of a golf lang that uses one

they tend to be more verbose I've found

then the main program runs all the nodes on the main branch, which in turn do stuff with their branches

the F is a for loop and executes the stuff in it's branch as code

Whereas the " just adds it's branch to the stack

I think this is how most stack based golf languages work

Pyth is a little different in that there's more implicit ending of branches, given that it's code is an actual tree and the commands have a certain arity

Python however uses a full tokeniser with grammar, splitting each piece of code into tokens and then the grammar looks at the tokens and works out how to create a valid tree from them using preset rules

quartata

@Lembik doing a benchmark with GCC right now for you

muddyfish

here is the grammar for python 3 for example

Lembik

4:47 PM

@quartata thanks!!

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