The Nineteenth Byte

Anonymous

9:00 PM

I was going to say good joke, but he also doesn't let quality of humor get in the way of a joke either :P

Geobits

Heh, true. I just haven't seen one so blatantly in that direction before.

Anonymous

Like today's votey:

Anonymous

Anonymous

It's very appropriate for today's comic, as well as most comics

Anonymous

The fact that most of the voteys are his wife and/or kids booing his jokes says something :P

DJMcMayhem

9:01 PM

Votey?

ais523

ugh, I was trying to expand the polyglot by editing the top row

Anonymous

The thing that appears when you click the red button

ais523

and everything started going wrong

like, fixing one language would break another

DJMcMayhem

I've never heard that term before

ais523

I think we could do with an offline TIO to make it faster to test (either that, or a TIO version that let you run the program in multiple languages at once)

Anonymous

9:03 PM

I think Zach made it up because he couldn't decide what to call it

Anonymous

@ais523 For the first, you can always clone the repo

Anonymous

For the second, there's this

Nathan Merrill

oO I just realized that I had you ignored Mego. Sorry if you were talking to me and I didn't respond

it was purely accidental

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill :(

Anonymous

</3

Anonymous

9:04 PM

I know we disagree on a lot of things but ignoring me is harsh! :P

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Mego This is Love:<3>marriage</3>

A crush: <3/>

Life: <!doctype meaningless>...

mınxomaτ

Longest single day conference ever. It's 10 PM and I just got home.

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@mınxomaτ Gonna sleep? Or did you drink too much coffee?

Sp3000

@ais523 I realise it was probably unfair of me to change everything and not document exactly what depends on what (only leaving hints for what I felt was most important), so feel free to ask if there's anything I can help with, since I'd like to see this get to the point where it beats Versatile Integer Printer :)

mınxomaτ

My legs hurt too much to sleep. I'm going to watch a movie and eventually fall asleep I guess.

Sp3000

9:08 PM

(also, a Bash script to run a bunch of languages in a row is really helpful, except some annoying ones like all the JS-only interpreters)

ais523

@Sp3000 I'd like to see that too

I don't mind that you changed things around (the only real problem it gives is that it doesn't save the golfing opportunities for when they're needed to fit a language in)

Poke

Section 2.a.2.B is interesting congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/3183/text

Gabriel Benamy

@Poke They should expand it to not just prevent ticket scalping, but scalping of any kind

Nathan Merrill

@TimmyD that is a clever solution :)

TimmyD

Thanks!

New Main Posts

9:11 PM

2

Q: Shuffle a ragged array

A ragged array is an array where each element is an array of unknown number of integers. For example, the following are ragged arrays: [[1,2,3],[4],[9,10]] Shape: 3,1,2 [[1],[2],[3]] Shape: 1,1,1 [[1,2,3,4,5,6,8]] Shape: 7 The following a...

ais523

in theory we should be able to do better by being allowed to copy each others' solutions

Geobits

2.a.1.B.ii also: knew or should have known that the event ticket was acquired in violation of subparagraph (A).

ais523

there are a ton of entry-point-anywhere languages we haven't used yet, but I'd rather save them until later

Sp3000

@ais523 The only reason I did that was because I didn't want the polyglot to bloat exponentially in size too far due to poor golfing (but that is sort of why I'm aiming to use only "real" languages until I'm forced to do otherwise)

ais523

fair enough, it's a reasonable approach

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

9:12 PM

@mınxomaτ Long talk...

oops, want to edit but don't want to send another ping

DJMcMayhem

@NewMainPosts hmm. I wonder if ragged-array would be a good tag

mınxomaτ

No, my talk was just a few minutes plus 30min panel disc.

Poke

@Geobits yeah that's an interesting one

Nathan Merrill

how do you pass an array in Jelly?

Sp3000

@ais523 I should probably mention if you need full stops you can probably fit them in between the [] now, not sure if that helps

Geobits

9:16 PM

@NathanMerrill Swim faster than the array?

(sorry, I'll leave now)

TimmyD

Do you swim in jelly?

I mean, it's not a liquid.

Geobits

If Scrooge McDuck can swim in gold coins, I can swim in jelly.

Nathan Merrill

is mud a liquid?

ais523

@Sp3000 my main problem is needing parentheses, those screw up a bunch of other languages (notably Cardinal and Prelude); and I also need to place code on the first line (or very early on the second), which screws up Turtlèd

Nathan Merrill

I'd consider jelly a liquid if mud is a liquid

ais523

9:19 PM

I can hide code from Turtlèd with # signs, but that annoys ><>; and I tried moving the ><> code to the right in order to solve that, but that confused Pyth for some reason I haven't been able to establish yet

TimmyD

@Sp3000 For what it's worth, PowerShell should be (relatively) easy to get into the mix, as you just need to get a number on the pipeline. The problem is any parsing errors are terminating, so we'd need to surround the print statement with blockquote <# ... #> somehow, which messes up 2D languages.

Poke

mud is a suspension

i think jelly is a liquid

assuming that if it has chunks you classify it as a jam

TimmyD

Maybe it's a non-Newtonian, like the cornstarch/water mixture.

ais523

@TimmyD is # a comment in PowerShell? the 2D languages are fine with <# ... #> because most of them don't run the print line anyway

Poke

or a colloid

Geobits

9:21 PM

Either way I think "swim" fits just fine. If it's fluid enough to move through, it's fluid enough to be called swimming imo.

TimmyD

@ais523 Yes, # is a single-line comment, and it can appear almost anywhere on the line and PowerShell will ignore anything after it.

ais523

I think you could leave most languages except possibly Retina happy with something like:

1<#
2 and print(...)# >#

New Main Posts

0

Q: Approximate ellipse and print it out

This challenge is to get a x-radius and a y-radius as input and evaluate an ellipse of those. (x-radius as first argument) For example, with the values 1 and 1, something like that has to be the output : /\ \/ Or with 2 and 2: /‾\ | | \_/ But with 2 and 1: /‾‾\ \__/ ...

code-golf

Sp3000

@TimmyD <# might be a bit tricky, but I'll give it a shot later. I'm just currently going through #-as-first-char multiline comments atm

TimmyD

@ais523 That's an interesting solution.

Sp3000

9:24 PM

@ais523 Which lang, out of curiosity?

ais523

@Sp3000 Underload (stringie)

Sp3000

Ah. Can't help much there :P

ais523

it's probably impossible to polyglot it following the spec (the first character in any valid Underload program is (), but stringie ignores anything it doesn't understand

unfortunately, it segfaults if you attempt to pop an empty stack

so you need to make sure to top the stack up a bit early

nothing in the existing program causes problems for Underload apart from stack underflow, though

Sp3000

@ais523 I don't think Python likes that without a line continuation char, and you can't wrap in () either in Py2

ais523

so the aim is to stick a (::):: in there early

@Sp3000 well, it ends with a binary operator, so I thought that would be OK, but maybe not? easy enough to test anyway

Sp3000

9:27 PM

How early is early? Because between @# on the first line is a free spot I think

ais523

ugh, yes, it crashes on 1< without even looking for the rest of the expression

anywhere on the first line will do

TimmyD

Oh boo.

ais523

I was trying further right

TimmyD

Well, likely scrap PowerShell then. Oh well.

ais523

if @# is a free spot, though, I think I can probably get that to work

Sp3000

9:28 PM

Yeah, the binary operations thing is only if you're in brackets of some sort, or at least that's one situation

But py2 print being a statement fails there

Explanation for @#: it's right after both Befunges have ended, before Turtled and ><>, so the only thing to be careful of it that it needs to be valid Pyth syntax I think (but runtime-wise I think the program already ends by that point)

Luis Mendo

How do I run a simple example program in J on TIO Nexus? Say the first example from here

ais523

ugh, Pyth doesn't like this

Geobits

@TimmyD Thanks for that. On mobile and it's frustrating trying to link the sandbox in comments that way.

Sp3000

Maybe try moving the mismatched quote earlier so it's inside the Pyth string?

ais523

my first line looks like this at the moment:
#v`16/"<"6/b.q@(::)(22)S::#;n4"14""

but I don't know enough Pyth to know why it doesn't like it

TimmyD

9:37 PM

@Geobits You mean you don't have that saved as a keyboard macro? :D

Geobits

Nah, I like to give it the personal touch when I do that. Cut/paste greetings aren't my style ;)

Now if we had a magic [Sandbox] link, that would be great.

Sp3000

@ais523 I think moving the last double quotes to between @( works, but you'll need more spaces on the fourth line to adjust for Prelude

(I don't have all interpreters on me atm, but that seems to work for the ones I can test)

ais523

the Underload was adjusted around the Prelude anyway

I can adjust it some more :-D

Geobits

Is it just me, or does @( look like an unhappy cyclops?

ais523

nope, Pyth still doesn't like it

wait, I removed both " by mistake

Gabriel Benamy

9:41 PM

what happens when you shove a bunch of MoO statements in there

ais523

OK, seems to work in Pyth now

Sp3000

Sorry yeah, just one :P

ais523

now I'm doing the verification that it works in every language

if it does, I'll post it

thanks for the help!

Sp3000

^_^

Would love to add to the chain immediately, but I can only get to it tonight :/

ais523

ugh, need a space in the top line for Cardinal

easily fixed but I'll have to do all the testing again

miles

10:00 PM

@LuisMendo you'll have to explicitly state that you want output somewhere using either stdout or echo (echo is what you should use)

most J examples expect to be run in the console where you'd have a repl

here's that example tio.run/nexus/…

ais523

@Sp3000: it works! I decided to leave the partridge in a pear tree joke out this time.

New Meta Posts

0

Q: Can we get a "magic link" to the Sandbox?

One of the more popular comments on our site goes something like this: Hi, and welcome to PPCG! Your challenge was closed because it's a bit unclear/broad/whatever as it is now. I would recommend posting in the Sandbox so you can get constructive feedback before you post to main. (Please ex...

feature-request sandbox comments markdown

3

Geobits

@NewMetaPosts Nice to see you're on top of your game today.

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

^ anyone else seeing this?

Poke

no

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

10:10 PM

:P

Dennis

@Geobits Yeah, I came close to renaming it to Yesterday's Meta Posts.

Nathan Merrill

@Geobits considering how little our current close votes apply, I'd totally just change a close vote to be the "Welcome, please refine your challenge in the sandbox"

Dennis

@NathanMerrill That sounds like a good idea. Once the current debates on meta settle, we should figure out what custom close reasons we want as defaults.

Geobits

@NathanMerrill Hmm. That's a thought. I'm not sure how I feel about it, but it's certainly another option.

ais523

IMO, voting to close for anything other than offtopic should require you to make a comment

(offtopic has a nice set of predefined comments already)

Geobits

10:12 PM

Either way, I think a [sandbox] link would be nice, regardless of whether or not a custom close reason is added for it.

ais523

duplicate makes the comment automatically (or, I discovered, automatically upvotes any comment where someone's mentioned the link you're marking as a duplicate, regardless of what the comment actually says)

Nathan Merrill

@Dennis wait, which debate?

the one that geobits just posted?

Rainbolt

@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC ^

Dennis

@NathanMerrill I was referring to our current discussion wrt to what answers should contain.

Nathan Merrill

ah :)

I didn't realize that meta was a 1-debate-at-a-time site :) /sarc

Gabriel Benamy

10:15 PM

boy am I glad I learned regex from Perl instead of PHP

Nathan Merrill

@Dennis in case it matters, the clarity around "remove only" definitely pulled me to your side. I don't think its a perfect solution, but its the best one I can think of

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Rainbolt nod

Gabriel Benamy

P "Let's reorder the arguments that get passed to similar functions in nonsensical ways" H P

Rainbolt

@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC I created that by adding a ton of <br>s to the html. Don't go posting on meta that I confirmed a bug find or anything...

4

Dennis

@NathanMerrill Definitely not perfect, I agree, but I do think it's a step in the right direction.

@NathanMerrill I've posted three discussions in the past two days and there were four more in the same time frame. There's no upper limit, but I do think it's best to wait a little before posting the next big one.

mınxomaτ

10:27 PM

10 hours ago, by mınxomaτ

Why does this have so many reopen votes? It wasn't changed since it was locked and suffers from arbitrary restrictions. Plus the answer should be deleted as it is invalid.

The question is open again for whatever reason and the answer is still there.

Conor O'Brien

@mınxomaτ tbh I don't see how it's unclear

mınxomaτ

It's not unclear. The answer should be deleted. The problem of the question is that there is exactly one solution.

ais523

actually, one issue that SE really has

is that you can't countervote a close/reopen vote

mınxomaτ

Would be different if the task were to write a program in any language that produces the smallest possible MO output for that language.

ais523

so if there are 10 people who think something should be closed, and 10 people who think it should be reopened

it gets closed, then reopened, then closed, then reopened

trichoplax

10:31 PM

I don't think countervotes are encouraged at all, so that shouldn't be a problem

ais523

well, if you think something should be open and there's a close vote ongoing

you can't do much but a) comment to try to persuade the voters to stop; or b) wait for it to close, then vote to reopen

controversial posts nearly always oscillate between open and closed, I've seen that happen several times recently

trichoplax

I think if there is contention over whether or not it should be closed, then it should be closed while discussion takes place

Nathan Merrill

@Dennis "Will the input always be a 2D array?". I'm not sure I follow. What are you considering as an alternative?

Transcript for