The Nineteenth Byte

1:19 PM

CMC: post a rosetta-stone challenge in main

Pietu1998

Is the sandbox bot still alive?

I think so

@Mego Time to add more operators that operate on functions? You've only got a handful of them iirc.

@LeakyNun I was thinking about the "ch" sound the other day. Indonesian and Malay write the "ch" with 'c', "s" with "s" and "k" with "k". I think we even apply this to transliterating loan words.

Makes figuring out the approximate pronunciation much simpler

@Sherlock9 I am on mobile; which message are you replying to?

Pietu1998

I guess I'll post this anyway since the bot's not gonna do it if I don't. meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/9893/30164

1:22 PM

It makes sense to write the loan words with Malay orthography

Pietu1998

waits for instant bot post in 2 seconds

CMC: Get banned from Stack Exchange

The one about 'ç is "ch" in your language?'

ığüşiöç we have beautiful letters

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Is that a word?

New Sandboxed Posts

1:24 PM

0

My questions: Is this a duplicate or a superset of something? Basically, it's about sorting logical expressions based on the combinations that make it truthy. It's definitely related to my other question, but this one is a lot more complicated in processing the array while allowing for...

^ not ded

But bloody slow

@βετѧΛєҫαγ just a list of interesting letters

we dont have qwx

@LeakyNun We try to keep "q"s when they turn up in Arabic loanwords. I think it goes to "k" otherwise, though I'm not entirely sure

@Sherlock9 I see

1:27 PM

So when does PPCG get its own theme? AFAIK nothing has changed since we graduated.

I may also have it backwards, where we switch "k" more than we keep "q"s. I don't know the stats

@Sherlock9 we use â î û, but only for the words we borrowed from arabic

@Sherlock9 you do know the difference between k and q right

Quill

@βετѧΛєҫαγ you might want to read the MSE post on design independent graduation

@LeakyNun Not entirely. Care to explain?

1:29 PM

@Sherlock9 well, I meant /k/ and /q/. The arabic "q" is /q/

@Quill Where would I find it?

uvular stop iirc

Oh, man, am I embarrassed ... :-/ ... completely misread Helka's challenge about printing the 95 ASCII characters.

q is en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_uvular_stop , k is en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_stop

@βετѧΛєҫαγ We don't have "Beta" after our name

Q: Design-Independent Graduation is on for early September!

1:30 PM

@TimmyD Hehe completely is right :D

Quill

92

This is a follow-up to an earlier discussion Feedback Requested: Design-Independent Graduation. Like the title says, design-independent graduation will go into effect and become our new regular practice the second week of September! All sites which have been waiting in the backlog to graduate w...

yay i got it right

Ohh I see

Damn, I don't want to lose my privileges...

Business Cat

You'll just need 25k rep, that's not so hard right?

@βετѧΛєҫαγ -15 wat

1:32 PM

@LeakyNun Fair enough, but I'm pretty sure the transliteration of the sound /q/ to /k/ happens anyway in Indonesian

@BusinessCat Haha nah, I could raise that overnight ;)

More info here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malay_alphabet

@Sherlock9 Sure. Not many languages have /q/

Well, quite a handful of languages have /q/, but not the ones I've heard of

Arabic

except Arabic

1:35 PM

I wonder if any SE employees have status-completed gold tag badge on Meta SE :P

Ah, Jeff does. Ha

@Sherlock9 Do you know that our alphabet descends from the Semitic alphabet so we share ancestor with Arabic etc

I remember that the Latin alphabet goes back to the Phoenicians but that Arabic script is related sounds plausible

The Arabic script also goes back to the phoenicians

Also, do you know that the phoenicians stem from the egyptian hieroglyphs

and the vowels are from the consonants

because they didnt have vowels

Except the letter "o" which is just the mouth shape

a is from aleph, the glottal stop

(⍨)

u is from waw, the /w/ sound

i is from yod, the /j/ sound

I forgot where e comes from

1:50 PM

Also, this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Sinaitic_script

@Sherlock9 This gets more interesting:
Y was the uppercase of "u" in Greek, and the Romans made them into two letters; then in the Roman's "dialect" of the Latin script, V was the uppercase of u, and then we made them two letters; also, "w" is just "double-u" (its name is double-u also)

but the name of "y" in many languages is "the Greek i" but "i" actually is from yod

and in greek the uppercase of v is N, so overall it's a mess

@Fatalize "v" seems to be a reasonable simplification of "N" if you write it with one stroke from the bottom left

Old Turkish didnt have vowels too

it didnt have j v f too

You know, earlier when people were complaining about pronunciation i try so hard to refrain myself from explaining how they make sense lol

2:01 PM

vowels were wrote if they needed to be. for example betseg would be like soft g-soft t-soft s-e-soft b

a ı o u are hard, e i ö ü are soft

soft g-soft s-soft t-e-soft b sorry

a and e are same letter, ı and i, o-u-ö-ü are same letter. complicated

TIL I can type ı on my keyboard

ȷ too

i wonder if this font supports this:

fi

yes it does

@ReleasingHeliumNuclei You can change font here?

@LeakyNun i meant the font that used here, which are verdana and arial, but probably changed to some other fonts by my linux system, since linux doesnt have them

se should switch to some webfonts

from what I see "fi" there is no ligature

2:16 PM

^

lel my font has

probably the sans-serif on browser settings, which is Roboto

@ReleasingHeliumNuclei Install the windows ttf package for your system and then set them in the advanced font options (assuming you're running chrom{e/ium}).

nah i like them open source fonts

You should get the MS TTF fonts

I would much rather be able to read things than be able to brag about how purist I am

especially considering they're fonts not programs

i lyk open source

2:24 PM

I currently use Noto Sans/Serif and Input Mono for my chrome fonts.

btw did you ever read some roboto, roboto slab, linux liberation

What the actual fuck, why does this code print 9:

main(a){printf("%d",++a*++a);}

Because undefined behavior?

i would expect 6

@quartata of evaluation order? No evaluation order would bring 9

2:25 PM

No...

What do you mean "of what". Of the program.

which behavior is undefined

a is not really defined

what, a is 1

main(a){printf("%d\n",a);printf("%d",++a*++a);}

This prints 1\n9

catb.org/jargon/html/N/nasal-demons.html

2:28 PM

Don't tell me it evaluates the two instances of ++ first

main(a){a=++a*++a;printf("%d",a);} is also 9

exactly

so the only possibility is that the ++ are evaluated first

and then the a is taken twice

oooh right it is

which makes no sense ever

It doesn't matter how it ended up there. Literally any behavior is valid.

2:29 PM

Why?

in Java it would have been 6 right (haven't tested)

en.cppreference.com/w/c/language/operator_precedence

@ReleasingHeliumNuclei but operator precendence =/= evaluation order

@LeakyNun idk, it just looks undefined to me

@DJMcMayhem java must be 6

just that i haven't tested it

Q: Why are these constructs (using ++) undefined behavior?

521

int main(int argc, char ** argv) { int i = 0; i = i++ + ++i; printf("%d\n", i); // 3 i = 1; i = (i++); printf("%d\n", i); // 2 Should be 1, no ? volatile int u = 0; u = u++ + ++u; printf("%d\n", u); // 1 u = 1; u = (u++); printf("%d\n", u); // 2 Should also ...

c increment undefined-behavior order-of-evaluation sequence-points

@LeakyNun What happens if you do (++a) * (++a)?

2:34 PM

@DJMcMayhem same, but thanks

Have you tried other compilers?

no

@LeakyNun It's definitely UB cause this one prints 2

cpp.sh/95rc

wtf

Doesn't ++a means increment first, and then use?

yup it should be

2:41 PM

Oh, whoops I got the order wrong. It still gives 9

Although it does warn about UB

cpp.sh/34y5 9

oh ninja'd

it does in my link

All three standards give 9

@LeakyNun you should SO it

@DJMcMayhem it's already SO'd above right

Now how the fuck does this give 4:

main(a){printf("%d",a+a++*a);}

While this also gives 4:

main(a){printf("%d",a++*a);}

there is a nice saying for this

"dafuq"

2:45 PM

Screw increments and pick a nicer language?

like java

lol

Define "nice"

Good point

Try using something more high level, like brainfuck

1 min ago, by Sherlock9

Good point

2:47 PM

I don't care, just come up with any explanation

@Sherlock9 Right now you're making the podcast scheduling a bit complicated :D. Do you maybe have any day where you could make somewhere from 0000 to 0300 UTC work?

Ooh, 00-03, that's the time I was hoping for. :D

I am nowhere near awake at 7 am

Which is 0000 UTC

I understand how and why time zones work, but they still blow my mind to think about it.

Hm. How about anywhere from 1100 to 2300 on a Saturday?

2:51 PM

@mınxomaτ timezone?

There is a chance for Monday before class, Thursday, or Saturday before class, but I do want to sleep in at some point and especially when getting ready for class already takes me a while

Saturday is completely unsure because I want to travel home at some point

@DJMcMayhem Yeah, by the way: Are you sure you announced the correct days for your times? I.e. respecting that UTC might be a day later (or the other way). Just seems a bit odd.

@LeakyNun UTC, always.

11 is way to early for me. It would have to be at least 13

there is a podcast?

@mınxomaτ I'm pretty sure, but it confused me also. I'm free Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday evenings (for me) which is the next morning in UTC

2:53 PM

@mınxomaτ Yes. All of the times I listed are in the afternoon for me. Saturday 1100 to 2300 is possible but will be subject to high variation

@Sherlock9 I'll take high variation over asleep :D

But don't put that time down just now, I'm still calculating.

What's the name of the word layout where the acronym is spelled out. Meaning like --

Don't worry about it. My semester is just starting and it can take an entire month for the schedule to settle down while the professors work out their own schedules

Together
Everyone
Achieves
More

3

@ReleasingHeliumNuclei Yes

2:55 PM

@mınxomaτ I do not envy you. Scheduling is hard enough with my friends who live in the same city, I can only imagine trying to schedule something global, with a bunch of people that don't know each other in person.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

monrning

@DJMcMayhem Eve more so, because a few of us are across the pond. And we require sleep at some point.

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ good morning!

But it doesn't have to be an acronym, so you can have off-balance words.

good evening!

2:57 PM

@mınxomaτ yeah, I know. Are most of the responders so far centered around a particular area? I know there's lots of people from the US who've responded. (Me, easterly, alex, probably others)

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@DJMcMayhem i omitted good for a reason

>_>

@DJMcMayhem It's about 50% US and 50% all over.

OK

@DJMcMayhem That's why I liked a chat I used be in "Late Night Skype". It was late for the UK and very late in the night for the UK, but early afternoon in my timezone

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ oh, OK. Standard morning. :D

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

2:58 PM

yes

Kinda like a Jumble, but more generic name.

I also have a roadshow for my company for the next few weeks starting two days from now. When that's finished the schedule of at least two "applicants" will have changed completely. So don't expect any actual dates until end of September (cues Green Day song)

Sp3000

@TimmyD Acrostic?