The Nineteenth Byte - 2016-07-23 (page 8 of 8)

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10:02 PM

cheddar> Downgoat is what is Goat
true

TIL I'm what is goat

Anonymous

user image

4

Anonymous

This is far too satisfying

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

I'm gonna go upvote you to ruin it. :P

Anonymous

Nooooo I totally didn't post that in hopes of getting upvotes from people who want to ruin it

cheddar> what is love
"baby don't hurt me"

6

is operator is best operator

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

10:09 PM

:/ Windows is stupid. Linux is stupid. Mac is stupid expensive. Computers are just stupid in general.

7

gravatar.com/avatar/…

does this identicon look beautiful to you?

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

Oh, and while we're on the topic, V is stupid.

LegionMammal978

@dorukayhan I just realized that you can edit the random hex string to get new patterns

2

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan while we're all on the topic, Python is stupid :P

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

For once, I agree.

And neovim is also stupid.

Anonymous

10:11 PM

Nothing works. Everything is _UNK.

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@Downgoat But JS is also stupid.

LegionMammal978

gravatar.com/avatar/…

^ Ow my eyes

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan ;_; y u do dis

@Downgoat Is what is like typeof? :D

is <whatever> does (a) -> <whatever> == a but what is will return the object's constructor

To display the class the REPL will reference it's String cast attribute which in this case returns "baby don't hurt me"

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

10:16 PM

@LegionMammal978 >_> DELETE TOO MUCH PAIN

@Dennis What exactly does the "debug" feature of TIO do? It looks like it prints some timings and also some STDERR messages. I'm asking because I'm working on an interpreter that will spit out a lot of optional debug text, and I want to know if the only thing I have to do is direct it all to STDERR so that it doesn't normally appear as the program's output.

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@PhiNotPi That's correct

okay thanks

@PhiNotPi Yes, debug toggles STDERR and adds a time command. Other features (such as a hexdump of the output) are planned but not yet implemented.

For the curios: github.com/DennisMitchell/tryitonline/blob/master/cgi-bin/…

@Dennis what do you use to host TIO?

10:26 PM

Digital Ocean I believe

I just realized how much mayhem would be caused if TIO went offline.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

^

I just realized that after you said that.

@PhiNotPi Front- and backend are on GitHub. I should create a repo for the entire /opt folder (where the interpreters are stored) so that someone else can recreate it without too much hassle. Just in case.

@Downgoat Yes, Digital Ocean. It's a low-end droplet (because the better ones cost serious money), but I'm very happy with their service.

@Dennis have you encountered memory problems? (I have)

Memory is a tad low, yeah. I could ~~start begging for money~~ add a Donate button, so I can afford a better droplet.

10:33 PM

Get SE to pay for it? .... yeah that'll never happen. :(

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

^

@Dennis I'm sure the good folk of the 19B would drown you in cash

( or add GoogleAds )

^ that's a good idea

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@quartata >_> I keep seeing a weird bird not a sleepy pichu.

10:34 PM

Yeah, I wouldn't be against a few non-intrusive ads on TIO. I don't think you'd get a lot of revenue from them though

Probably enough to run the servers, though, right?

@Dennis It's not a bad idea. That's how the PPCG Minecraft Server has stayed running so long

Any clue the number of daily pageviews that TIO gets?

@Quill I dunno, what's the RPM of AdSense again?

Or is it not fixed

@PhiNotPi Lemme check

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@quartata not fixed

@quartata benchmarks seem to be about $0.25 to $3 for a generic webpage, but from $1 to $10 for something like a blog.

because different ads pay different amounts of money

10:37 PM

@PhiNotPi I can't get traffic data on Alexa for some reason

Dennis probably could tell us

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Looks like $1 to $3 per thousand impressions.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

kk

One ad on the top and one on the side would probably get a decent amount then.

I think TIO would be classified as a "generic webpage" since there's almost no textual content for the algorithms to go off of.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

similarweb.com/website/tryitonline.net#overview

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Holy shit, that's way more than I expected (assuming it's accurate)

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

10:40 PM

hahaha most common source of traffic from searches is for "jelly interpreter"

I'll try a Donate button first. I'd only consider ads if the only other option is to shut the service down.

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

\o/ Almost 10% is to V!

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

user image

lel

Looks like it averages about 20K visits a month, which could translate into $20 a month... not sure how much is needed

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan ?

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

10:44 PM

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ 9% of traffic on TIO is to V.tryitonline.net

Cheddar get's more views than my blog ._.

Holy cow! That's a lot more than I would have thought. Could that be right? I'll have to compare it with my logs.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

where do you see that?

user image

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan umm...

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

user image

wat?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

hm

what website?

10:45 PM

That's what I see too

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

12 secs ago, by Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

what website?

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

The one you linked to.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

oh I see it now

Q_____Q Code Review gets 9x more traffic than PPCG ;______;

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

I was looking at the same site, but different page

@Downgoat :(

10:47 PM

I currently pay 5 dollars per month for 1 core/512 MiB RAM/20 GB HDD. 20 dollars would get TIO 2 cores/2 GIB RAM/40 GB HDD.

@Downgoat Quality over quantity, my friend.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

lol

@Dennis hm. maybe try 2 ads out for a month and see the revenue?

7 mins ago, by Dennis

I'll try a Donate button first. I'd only consider ads if the only other option is to shut the service down.

Nah, he doesn't want to run ads.

It would be morally questionable anyways. It is a community effort after all

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

Yeah, I'd rather donate than see ads.

10:48 PM

Feb 28 at 4:05, by Toga Down

@SirPython Quality > Quantity

Mᴀʀs Uʟᴛᴏʀ

I think it might be because in Puzzling, there's pretty much one correct answer, and for bigger puzzles, people just collaborate

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Dennis okay

@Dennis o_o do you have swap?

i have same plan and website crashes when i get 15 views

Mᴀʀs Uʟᴛᴏʀ

Unlike PPCG, where you pretty much always have to come up with your own answer

wat

That's because WordPress is incredibly poorly optimized I suspect

10:48 PM

No, I don't have swap.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

15 views

gg

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ thanks

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

welcome

@Downgoat What kind of crap does that run on?

@Dennis goat

10:49 PM

@Dennis Wordpress

(on more serious note it uses wordpress)

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

> Goat is crap -- Downgoat, 2016

El'endia Starman

@Dennis I could certainly try setting up a backup on the shared hosting server I use.

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan ಠ_ಠ no I meant Downgoat

stahp taking what i say out of context

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

> Downgoat is crap -- Downgoat, 2016

10:50 PM

The simple solution seems to be not to use Wordpress then. Apache + all the interpreters are usually happy with 512 MiB.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@El'endiaStarman you having server problems?

Heroku is OK

@Dennis it appears to be a problem with MariaDB more than WP

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

but free forever

El'endia Starman

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Nooo, did you see the conversation before?

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@El'endiaStarman no...?

10:52 PM

@El'endiaStarman Great! As soon as I add the needed parts to a GitHub repo, that should be as easy as installing a couple of packages and cloning the repo.

@Dennis if you have source on Github, do you manually deploy, do you have cron job or something?

Manually.

El'endia Starman

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Dennis was talking about TIO, and a couple people realized that there would be big problems if it ever went offline. I was thinking about copying the code over to make a backup on my server, where I have my websites already.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@El'endiaStarman what hosting do you use?

^

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

10:53 PM

I made another bot (well it's an old bot, the reddit part is new though:)

reddit.com/r/RSimBotTestArea/comments/4uaaob/…

> This bot likes to talk about terrorism, bacon, politics (esp. Donald Trump), and zombies all at the same time.

El'endia Starman

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Webfaction. It turned up as a good choice in my research for shared hosting servers that support Django.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@El'endiaStarman I looked them up and they're really cheap

@Dennis If it helps, the PPCGMC donations have totaled around $82 usd and the monthly cost is $4. It's still got 4 months banked.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

like wayyy cheaper than heroku

@HelkaHomba there should be a graph of remaning balance

> $10/month, 100GB SSD storage, 1GB RAM, 1TB bandwidth

in PPCG Minecraft Server, 17 mins ago, by Helka Homba

PAYMENT STATUS:
July 23, 2016 - Paid $3.98 (USD) for August 6, 2016 to September 6, 2016 hosting fee.
Our balance was $20.39 and is now $16.41.
One user donated since the last payment (https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/24544?m=30547933#30547933).

I post that every month

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

10:55 PM

but charts are better

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

no

it's fine

I really dislike Heroku.

I use OpenShift for my hosting, since we're on the subject. I host my blog using their free plan.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@quartata it

I'll probably include BTC as a payment option so the records are public. Not sure if there are transparent options for "real" money.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

10:57 PM

's the only good free hosting, openshift isn't flexible enough and reqs too mch config

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@quartata why?

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ It's very expensive for a platform that you have very little control over. Plus build packs are a pain in the ass.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Dennis use changetip

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@quartata ok

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

the only reason you'd use it is the free plan

10:58 PM

which is very unreliable

There's no such thing as a free lunch, I judge based on the paid lunches

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@quartata better than notj\hkng

Heroku's free plan sucks because of the mandatory idling.

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Uh, Github IO + emscripten? C9? etc?

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@quartata but what if you need a a database?

> C9?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

10:59 PM

C9 has one.

ninjuic'ed

Although if you need a database the project has definitely gone past the "free hosting pls" scale

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

...and django?

> C9?

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

blog, good, web server, bad

what's c9

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

cloud9

11:01 PM

Cloud9, online collaborative text editor

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

c9.io

Cloud9 IDE is an online integrated development environment, published as open source from version 3.0. It supports hundreds of programming languages, including PHP, Ruby, Perl, Python, JavaScript with Node.js, and Go. It enables developers to get started with coding immediately with pre-configured workspaces, collaborate with their peers with collaborative coding features, and web development features like live preview and browser compatibility testing. It is written almost entirely in JavaScript, and uses Node.js on the back-end. The editor component uses Ace. As of July 2014, it uses Dock...

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

okay - but it's not even for hosting

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

yes it is

it hosts stuff

maybe not it's primary thing, but it does

@Quill ...

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC It isn't really a text editor.

It's a VM

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

11:02 PM

ugh, cloud 8 is better

New Bloggoat: Special Symbols Seem Super Sensible!

They do fall asleep occasionally but you can just enter them to wake them up and it's much less often (compared to Heroku)

There are similar things too

@Downgoat I've got a purely content suggestion... change out of Wordpress

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@quartata I noticed WebFaction today, it's super cheap and works with django

@Quill why?

the whole world uses it

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

11:03 PM

$10/month, 100GB SSD storage, 1GB RAM, 1TB bandwidth

@Downgoat website would run faster, you wouidn't have to pay for it

I changed to GitHub pages for my blog and website and now I don't pay for them :3

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Hm, idk. The fees page feels intentionally vague...

Mᴀʀs Uʟᴛᴏʀ

@Downgoat for (let i of counter) console.log(i);

Yeah, Jekyll is more than sufficient for what you're doing.

Mᴀʀs Uʟᴛᴏʀ

@Downgoat +1 for crashing browser

11:05 PM

@Quill I pay for a VPS. hosting my website/blog are only one of the few things I use it for

Exception in thread "main" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space ... that's an error I don't often see.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

Yo, @El'endiaStarman, how much do they charge you?

@Downgoat oh, you host it all off the one server? nice

@PhiNotPi I see that pretty much every day so I must be doing something wrong

@Quill idk if sarcasm or serious

11:07 PM

Part of the problem is OpenGL. One wrong move and suddenly you're infinitely caching textures and your computer explodes

@Downgoat It's a cheaper solution... it only fails if you get traffic that it can't deal with, which it doesn't seem to... so no, not sarcasm

I've added 2GB of swap so it probably won't fail

El'endia Starman

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC $9.50/mo, plus $0.28/mo for international charge (which might be due to my bank).

That reminds, I need to pop into C9 and fix the leaderboard

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@El'endiaStarman what's your bank?

I hope it's not an underground swiss one

11:09 PM

Probably not a good idea to discuss which bank you use in chat

4

A: Catalan Numbers

Sesos, 94 86 bytes 8 bytes by changing the factorial-er from version 1 to version 2. Hexdump: 0000000: 16f8de bd4bfb 3940bb 776cf0 7ded9c b9011a 74dd3b ....K.9@.wl.}.....t.; 0000015: 065fe7 8ec1d8 e05f3f b7f303 bc6be7 065df7 8e191b ._....._?....k..].... 000002a: e0c1f7 b573d0 7dec1c cc0dfa f...

4 upvotes only..

^^^

El'endia Starman

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC No, it's an American bank.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

...or is it?

Is it... an above ground swiss one?

El'endia Starman

11:11 PM

Maybe I'm lying and it's actually an underground British bank.

Staffed by goblins, no less.

I think this LRR sketch is somewhat relevant:

The Bitcoin Conspiracy

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Quill mine is gaot of murica in CA

@MartinEnder You could walk up inside the wall in the rightmost column, while checking that there is no wall to the left at each level.

Random thought: Fastest code challenges in Sesos could be fun. With the command counting option, it would also be rather easy to score.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Doorknob seriously, this chat-ception thing is really cool.

11:21 PM

catch(Exception e){} ahh, my favorite Java construct to make any problem go away

s/Exception/Throwable/

@Dennis then do it

@feersum thanks, TIL, my problem solving skills just increased

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ yeah, it's pretty awesome

On the other hand, physicists like to say physics is to math as sex is to masturbation.

4

Sesos is just compressed Brainfuck. With decimal input/output.

11:26 PM

Programmers must be too far right for that chart

@Quill wouldn't programmers be a field that branches off the area between chemists and physicsts?

I don't know, really

sesos.tryitonline.net/…

sum of non-negative integers \o/

0000000: 167881 afe3dc 03                                  .x.....

Size   : 7 byte(s)

Hrm. I was originally planning to upload the STV demo to the web server as a base64 encoded string in the get request but now that I realized that the demos are 1MB+ that might be a bad idea....

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ i use same bank too +1

El'endia Starman

11:33 PM

@Quill I remember seeing an edit that put philosophers far to the right of mathematicians, and being kinda ticked about it despite being somewhat of a philosopher myself. Sure, the questions might be "purer" and more fundamental, but the field as a whole is very..."messy" and vague. There are almost zero certain answers. Mathematics has every other field beat in that regard.

yeah, programming is just an extension of logical and binary math with some problem solving

Ugh, I don't remember how to do this correctly with just urllib

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@quartata use requests

Can't.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@quartata why not?

It's @R.Kap again!

11:46 PM

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC I mean, I could, but it would probably take way more time than it's worth. It's Python embedded in a C application

and I don't want to rebuild said C application

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@quartata oh

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC ŨǹȜȜȫ

Can anyone decode that?

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

lemme see

@R.Kap can I have it in binary? or a link to a binary converter?

@R.Kap it's not IMWox7nInMicyKs=, is it?

nope

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC It has nothing to do with binary ;)

El'endia Starman

@R.Kap I have a very different view of mathematics, but I don't see how that's relevant.

11:50 PM

I feel like such a tard. I finally realized that the i in m_iFoo means that the property is an integer and the b in m_bFoo is a boolean

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@R.Kap is it

d
nenodododd
dn

e

No

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

semi regular

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

0x168, 0x1f9, 0x21c, 0x21c, 0x22b

@El'endiaStarman Mathematics condenses all the fuzziness down to a single question: "what axioms should we use?"

11:50 PM

5

I just assumed that Valve pulled the naming convention out of their ass I guess

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

20C5A8C7B9C89CC89CC8AB?

Mᴀʀs Uʟᴛᴏʀ

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan 360, 505, 540, 540, 555

@quartata Welcome to szHungarian bNotation

El'endia Starman

@PhiNotPi ....yeah, that seems pretty accurate.

11:51 PM

@Lynn Basically

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@El'endiaStarman I just clicked on your profile. You like rock-climbing to? Nice!

I just recently started to really get into rock-climbing.

I've never seen Hungarian Notation in production before so I didn't really realize it at first

I guess the m_vecOrigin should have tipped me off

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC I divided all my apples into 5 groups.

El'endia Starman

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Oh yes. It's one of my favorite kinds of exercise, primarily because there's such a mental and problem-solving component to it.

It's not that bad of an idea, actually.

Especially for this where if you get the wrong type when retrieving a datamap property you get a lovely segfault

11:52 PM

What's the m_

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@R.Kap huh?

El'endia Starman

@quartata I think there's a JoelOnSoftware blog post about it.

@feersum I'm not sure, actually. That's what I'm trying to figure out now

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

base 5?

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@El'endiaStarman Yeah, absolutely. It's really fun. I actually just did my first advanced route (V5 indoors) yesterday!

11:53 PM

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC A hint to decode 'ŨǹȜȜȫ'.

Oh, member.

Duh.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

oh, ok

divided and 5

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

ndoone?

El'endia Starman

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Very nice! I don't think I've ever done anything beyond V2.

11:54 PM

Now that's really stupid.

@feersum What is?

Yeah, I concur. I think that stuff came from Quake though so I don't blame Valve

There's no way to access a member by name without using syntax that is unique to members.

@feersum Actually, not in this case....

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Do you give up?

11:55 PM

If it was Quake all the names would begin with Q_ instead of m_.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@R.Kap I'm onto something

Okay then. Let me know when you got it.

@feersum wiki.alliedmods.net/Entity_properties

welcome to my programming hell

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

...did they just use cyan on a light bg?

Luckily in SourcePython it's not as bad. You've got get_datamap_property_<type> and get_network_property_<type> and that's that

Wait, why is a short m_h?

and why m_fl for floats instead of m_f?

Wait I'm confused because I just saw another float with m_f in a datamap

11:57 PM

Dunno, half word maybe?

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@R.Kap give up

`there were a bunch of leading zeroes with utf16

binary conversion

of the first letter

LegionMammal978

Hey, just successfully installed a new 550GB SSD

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@El'endiaStarman Do you prefer top-roping or boldering?

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

huh?

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC The decoded answer was "Hello".

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

11:59 PM

how???

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