The Nineteenth Byte - 2016-07-07 (page 5 of 8)

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Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

7:02 PM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ HAI

TùxCräftîñg

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ v

HAIIII

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

h

TùxCräftîñg

._.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

i

sorry, just a bit slow

._.

TùxCräftîñg

v

i have invented the inverted carrot

7:10 PM

☝

@orlp Tetris starts shortly

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ HAI

@TùxCräftîñg it's been around for a while

TùxCräftîñg

.__________________________________________________________________________________________.

-1

Q: Add a tag for reinventing-the-wheel?

I think this tag could apply to several of the posts on this site, and is a good canonical name describing the intention of a challenge. reinventing-the-wheel It could possibly be a tag accommodating different types of challenges, but I see it as mostly accommodating a code-golf challenge. A ch...

discussion tags

TùxCräftîñg

> > > > > nested quote

._.

7:14 PM

games done quick tetris starting very soon!

twitch.tv/gamesdonequick

TùxCräftîñg

« « « « « nested quote » » » » »

Anonymous

Tetris hype :D

Anonymous

Will someone ping me when it starts?

El'endia Starman

@Downgoat No. I have Python classes that tell the parser when a "token" matches that object's syntax, and converts said token to an AST_node.

@Mego ok

TùxCräftîñg

7:21 PM

for a website: is using a single index page with menu items loading pages via ajax a good idea ?

Anonymous

@orlp Thanks! :D

El'endia Starman

@TùxCräftîñg My concern with such a system is that you wouldn't be able to bookmark a specific portion or send a link to someone to that specific place.

TùxCräftîñg

@El'endiaStarman tuxcrafting.github.io/index.html i have added a permalink feature

@TùxCräftîñg That depends on how much you want people to hate you.

TùxCräftîñg

@Geobits ._.

7:23 PM

No permalink "feature" will ever be as friendly as just grabbing it from the address bar :/

El'endia Starman

@TùxCräftîñg Just make the permalink always happen.

You can easily set the URL.

TùxCräftîñg

@El'endiaStarman changing the location will reload the page :/

El'endia Starman

@TùxCräftîñg Not necessarily.

@TùxCräftîñg I have that feature implemented here. Make a change to the board, then click "Set permalink".

@TùxCräftîñg Users like their back/forward buttons to work correctly also.

El'endia Starman

Back/forward buttons correctly change the URL, but they don't reload page content, so there's that.

TùxCräftîñg

7:26 PM

so i have done the worst website design ever ?

El'endia Starman

'course, you could listen or watch for such an event, and reload as needed.

But honestly, at this point, just don't bother loading pages via AJAX. That's not what it was designed or developed for.

Nope, not the worst ever. Go find some old geocities pages for that :P

^^

TùxCräftîñg

@El'endiaStarman i think this make the loading more smooth

It makes everything else worse though :(

TùxCräftîñg

:(

7:28 PM

I went through this with one I designed. Getting everything to work properly is such a huge pain that it's much easier to just not do it.

TùxCräftîñg

but github.io dont have dynamic languages so retyping the header/footer at each page is silly

El'endia Starman

I think it is possible to load everything via AJAX but still make it seem to behave normally, but don't do it unless you're willing to put in the effort to make it all work and work well.

@TùxCräftîñg there is no speed difference if the browser has caching

JQuery mobile does ajax loading of all pages by default (or did last I used it). It's a huge pain in the ass.

@TùxCräftîñg no

TùxCräftîñg

7:30 PM

._____________________________.

Does gthub IO have SSI?

@TùxCräftîñg ಠ________________ಠ for using jquery your website is much worse now you should fix it before the jquery spreads to your other projects

TùxCräftîñg

@Downgoat ._____________________.

Anonymous

Don't listen to the goat, use more jQuery

Home page -> ShwaPL -> <refresh> -> home page again :(

7:32 PM

@Mego ಠ_ಠ

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ pls back me up on this

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

who is the offender

@Downgoat s/jQuery/JS/gi

Anonymous

I look forward to the day where the entire networking stack is jQuery, all the way down.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ @TùxCräftîñg

More JQuery pls

TùxCräftîñg

7:33 PM

there is only doc for jekyll in github page doc .____________.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@TùxCräftîñg Please, for your own sake dear child, do not be deceived by these horrendous offenders and save yourself from the horror that is jQuery. Before it's too late.

@TùxCräftîñg based on reviews by other people the best way is;

TùxCräftîñg

so i should rewrite a jquery-like library ?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

you have document.querySelector...

^

7:34 PM

Don't use AJAX

Use html instead

TùxCräftîñg

jQuery is life

You should not use JS for a start

TùxCräftîñg

but there is no SSI in githubio .__.

@TùxCräftîñg TIL life is hell

7:35 PM

@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 Ajax is fine to use. Using it like this is the issue. It causes problems and makes your browser look dumb.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata shush

^

That is where the real problen lies

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

the real problem is you

TùxCräftîñg

so i could use iframe s ?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

7:36 PM

Ooo I like this one: ({[{}]:{}})[{}]

You may use Jekyll instead, it's great but only does static sites.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ So jqery is fine then? No u.

TùxCräftîñg

i prefer writing my site

because i hate generators

Anonymous

Honestly though, save yourself some headaches and use flask

But it's also used to make blogs, for example.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

7:36 PM

@Geobits no, but jqer is fine-- no y, o, u.

I could use a flask right now.

Shocking moment vintage plane crashes into Texas lake, Travis

plane-crash

Same.

all-survived

Anonymous

I have a flask, so I'm pretty happy

Anonymous

7:37 PM

Sleepy though

TùxCräftîñg

._____________________.

@flawr ;_; y do u liek such sad things

I have a bottle of some unknown brand of sake that I haven't opened yet.

@Downgoat What is sad about this?

TùxCräftîñg

without ssi the only solution is ajax

7:37 PM

cheddar> var a = (a,b) -> a + b
< Unprintable object of class "CheddarFunction" with literal value undefined >
cheddar> a
Runtime Error: Attempted to access undefined variable `a`

@flawr oh nvm they didn't die

Anonymous

@Downgoat It's not sad. All the people (and the goats) survived.

@Mego :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

If you hate generators, you hate doing it yourself.

@Mego How is that not sad? No goat curry.

TùxCräftîñg

@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 why ?

Anonymous

7:38 PM

That moment when you realize a friend of yours from college is sitting in the front row of the SGDQ audience

@Geobits ಠ_ಠ

@Downgoat As I said, they just went bathing involuntarily.

@Mego TS

Anonymous

I went to college with the guy on the front left of the right aisle of the SDGQ audience

OK screw it. I'm assembling a prepared "JS is trash" argument so that I can just link it and we never have to argue over semantics ever again

@Mego small world haha

7:40 PM

goat curry > joat curry > jot cuarry > j cuarry > j quarry > j query > jquery!

!

Anonymous

@quartata rabbit.eng.miami.edu/javasucks

Anonymous

@Geobits Don't forget > kwargs

El'endia Starman

@orlp Very soon, huh? Been 20+ minutes so far... :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata seriously, could you just lay off. We know you don't like JS, and for good reasons. We understand and know them. You don't have to write a rant just to show this.

7:42 PM

@Geobits I need a bot that replies ಠ_ಠ to everything Geobit's says

@El'endiaStarman :*(

oh wait that's Chatgoat. brb

@El'endiaStarman I blame the schedule

Blaming the schedule for the timing of things seems convenient.

Anonymous

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ You seem to be personally offended by the JS bashing. Why? It's not like you worked on the language. If you had, it would probably be better.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

7:44 PM

@Mego More like tired of it. And thanks :)

El'endia Starman

@Mego ...that's a really weird almost-backhanded-comment. It's like a backhanded compliment.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ It's not for you

hey folks, how's it going?

It's for the people who don't know so I don't ever have to "bash" it again

cheddar> var a = (a,b) -> a + b
cheddar> a
< Instance of "Function" >

7:44 PM

@aditsu Everyone survived.

I am on the verge of something great....

@flawr do you watch air crash investigation videos?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata and I hope you have fun enlightening the idiots out there who don't know.

Anonymous

Honestly a significant part of why I don't like JS is because it's the only option for client-side scripting. More options is always a good thing.

I can finally get all of my grievances out in a coherent well-formulated argument and never have to speak of it again aside from jokes

7:45 PM

@Geobits survived what?

flawr's latest video

El'endia Starman

@Geobits His video making skills are that bad?!

@Mego they are like a gajillion <whatever> to JS copmilers out there for like C, Python, etc.

well, the plane didn't

@El'endiaStarman Well he's not Helka Homba youtube star or anything >_>

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

7:46 PM

rip plane

@El'endiaStarman way too many jumpcuts

TùxCräftîñg

so, someone have a solution for my website ?

@TùxCräftîñg yes

it's thisL

TùxCräftîñg

@Downgoat what ?

<a href="link to html page">

7:47 PM

@aditsu No, I didnt even know they existed?

@flawr it's a tv series

@TùxCräftîñg If you don't like having to write the headers/footers use SSI. I'm sure Github has it

@TùxCräftîñg What "solution" are you looking for? The general consensus was don't use ajax for loading pages.

@Geobits You know my youtube channel?

I watched a few dozen episodes on youtube

Anonymous

7:47 PM

@Downgoat It's still JS at the core, which is the problem. With server-side, you can use basically any language with networking features. On the client side, it's just JS, with a bunch of junk on top of it.

@aditsu No i don't really watch tv

TùxCräftîñg

@quartata github DONT have ssi

@TùxCräftîñg It's built-in to Apache

@flawr me neither (I don't have one) but you can find them online

@Mego why is that the problem?

7:48 PM

@aditsu Are they worth watching?

@Downgoat Not really a gajillion. Most of them are not very good either

@Downgoat It's like a language monopoly

@flawr most of them, they're quite interesting, especially if you like the subject

TùxCräftîñg

@quartata help.github.com/categories/github-pages-basics i dont have found any SSI mention

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Mego wouldn't it be nice if there was some low-level language on the web that people could just make compilers for? so then JS would only be one of a couple dozen compilers, then the best would eventually rise. people could still use what they were comfortable with. </dream>

12

@Downgoat If every local program I wrote got transpiled to python or whatever before running, I'd be pissed about that. Same for JS.

7:49 PM

@quartata gajillion was obvious exaggeration. How good they are is completely subjective

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Yeah, I'd shut up if that was the case

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata it's not like it could be helped, though.

Anonymous

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ That's the dream.

@quartata It's called standardization

although people who actually know their stuff say that their recreations are often not really accurate

7:49 PM

@Downgoat C is standardized. That doesn't mean it's the only language you can use on computers

Anonymous

Looks like tetris should be starting in a few minutes

JS has the worst "standardization" I've ever seen though o_o

@Downgoat cheddar.vihan.org/repl

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ wasm

El'endia Starman

@Mego Oh yay, people sitting down in front of controls.

TùxCräftîñg

7:50 PM

cheddar> a = (x, y) => x + y;
1 | a = (x, y) => x + y;
| ^
this.Code is undefined

@Quill oh whoa shiny

Anonymous

The current situation with JS is like if C was the only usable language natively, and every other language was built on top of it and transpiled to C.

@quartata Asking for that is asking for someone to standardize the list of languages that you can use.

@Downgoat What?

That makes no sense

@quartata Downgoat did the design and everything, he just didn't do the last step of copying five files to the repo, and instead added an iframe to the copy in Cloud9.....

7:51 PM

How is it like that in any way

@quartata are you saying you should be able to use any arbitrary language on a website?

@Quill no it's because it's hosted on C9

@Downgoat That would be great but unrealistic obviously

@Downgoat well it aint anymore

@quartata screw-security

TùxCräftîñg

so the only solution i see is frames with my website :(

7:52 PM

@Quill wait wat

@Quill then how can i do my fancy update script

> unrealistic obviously

@Downgoat /me shrugs

@quartata so what realistic alternative to you propose?

@Quill I'll probably just add a travis script i guess

I don't know, browsers getting their act together and giving us some alternative languages?

work on Cheddar, make browser_build, copy the file

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

7:53 PM

we need to get in touch with the firefox and chrome people. if we convince them to have some underlying thing, then IE et all would have to catch up or be left behind.

Anonymous

@Downgoat Have a variety of sandboxed languages, and not just Javascript

so anyway, this is super-cute ^_^

2

@Quill goat@cheese — cheddar lol

awwhh

@quartata How would that work? Whose gonna standardize the langauges available then? It would be a pain if the language you wanted to use was supported on, e.g., Firefox but not Chrome

7:53 PM

I think all the browsers wanted at least one language they could agree, and now that they're mostly agreeing on JavaScript, they've got a fetish for making libraries and shit for it

> and shit

> wouldn't it be nice if there was some low-level language on the web that people could just make compilers for

Anonymous

For example, Brython is browser-based Python. It's completely sandboxed (because all the unsafe non-browser stuff is removed). Unfortunately, it's interpreted in Javascript. If it was natively supported, that would be great.

It would be like porting a language to different platforms

@Mego It's also slow as shit and you still find yourself dealing with JS ultimately

If every browser had NaCl there would be no problem

I really respect Google for exploring alternatives in that regard

@quartata congrats you just described JavaScript + asm.js

7:55 PM

35 secs ago, by quartata

@Mego It's also slow as shit and you still find yourself dealing with JS ultimately

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Downgoat that was me, actually.

El'endia Starman

@aditsu WHUGH the interface is totally different! o.O

Plus it's a pain in the ass to compile to.

> asm.js

Because it wasn't meant to be compiled to

7:55 PM

@quartata wait what that makes no sense

> It's also slow as shit

That said, they went through all the trouble of trying to standardise it, arguing about it, messing up web dev for nearly a decade, and then finally now standardising it

asm.js was included in that

you want it to be compiled and yet you're complaining that it's compiled???

I doubt they're eager to do the same thing just to offer variety

7:56 PM

@El'endiaStarman huh? imgur? I don't think they changed recently

@Downgoat ??????

@aditsu aaaw

@quartata and what backs up that ridiculous claim?

El'endia Starman

@aditsu Oh wait, there's a Beta banner. o.O

Describing asm.js as "low level language for the web" is somewhat baffling to me. It's javascript.

7:56 PM

@Downgoat Common sense? How could JIT compiling to an interpreted language be faster than JIT compiling to freaking assembly?

user image

day four, they still think i'm one of them

2

TùxCräftîñg

@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 anyway, idk if Jekyll support custom css

especially considering compiling to asm.js is significantly harder since it's still JS

@El'endiaStarman I don't see that here

It's not low-level

It's not meant for this

7:57 PM

@quartata what????

i am so confused

@flawr oooooh

JS does not JIT compile to another JIT language???

El'endia Starman

@aditsu Yeah, I think I was just "invited" to the beta. It's a very different layout and design, and the features are probably different/more/better (maybe) too.

twitch.tv/gamesdonequick

@quartata Thank aditsu!

7:58 PM

tetris starting now

Anonymous

Tetris time!

@Mego ^

@Downgoat We're talking about things like Brython

@El'endiaStarman ok, I'll brace myself for when it gets here :p

That was the whole point

You were talking about asm.js

7:58 PM

@El'endiaStarman screenshot?

@TùxCräftîñg It does

@quartata okay, well then how about write your compilers in C emscripten it, and yay

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^^^

emscripten compiles to asm.js JS

@Downgoat You don't seem to get it

asm.js will never be faster than assembly and that's the point

Plus emscripten is not that simple

7:59 PM

so you're proposing you should be able to write machine code on the web?

Anonymous

The point is, we want something other than JS to be natively supported (in addition to JS)

@orlp what? where?

> natively

@Downgoat Yes, that's what pNaCl is.

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