The Nineteenth Byte

I get you. Parsing isn't fun

:: ????

and then you complain about my thing looking like C

that's casting operator

String::123 -> "123"

wat

5:19 PM

@Fatalize s/C/C++/

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Unless you use parsec!

@Fatalize ._. type::variable

@Upgoat I know it's C++, but you complain about my thing looking like C

@Upgoat here's a report on the Cheddar REPL:

`print` is transparent: prints *and* returns the string.

Comments return `Symbol(KEY_NOT_FOUND)`.

String formatting does not work.

`1__2345` crashes the interpreter.

```
readline.js:925
            throw err;
            ^

TypeError: Cannot read property 'length' of undefined
    at CheddarExec.exec (/home/ubuntu/workspace/cheddar/dist/interpreter/exec.js:53:29)
    at Interface.<anonymous> (/home/ubuntu/workspace/cheddar/dist/cli/repl.js:60:24)
    at emitOne (events.js:77:13)
    at Interface.emit (events.js:169:7)

@Upgoat yeah I got it, but it looks... dubious

5:20 PM

@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 oh god

`[1, 2, 3, 4]` prints these tokens:

```
[ CheddarExpressionToken { Code: '[1, 2, 3, 4]', Index: 2, _Tokens: [ [Object] ] },
  CheddarExpressionToken { Code: '[1, 2, 3, 4]', Index: 5, _Tokens: [ [Object] ] },
  CheddarExpressionToken { Code: '[1, 2, 3, 4]', Index: 8, _Tokens: [ [Object] ] },
  CheddarExpressionToken { Code: '[1, 2, 3, 4]', Index: 11, _Tokens: [ [Object] ] } ]

@Zgarb I don't even know what I just read ... o_o

i dunno what's wrong here, @zʏᴀʙiɴ101 post these on GH so I can plan on fixing them :3?

keep the code to the github issues page and link us

Here's the public C9 workspace where I test Cheddar: ide.c9.io/schas002/cheddar

"public" "Please sign in"

5:23 PM

as opposed to private, where you can't access it.

@Upgoat you deleted your blog??

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ no I moved it to blog.vihan.org

oh, okay

Question: Why does 10^(log(2)*n)=2^n?

It looks like it should be 2*10^n

(log is base 10 in this instance)

x^(y*z) != x^y * x^z

Because it's the same as (10^log(2))^n, and 10^log(a) == a when the logarithm is in base 10.

5:33 PM

Oh, facepalm

Question 2: log(10^a+10^b) is effectively max(a,b), right?

if it is, then I'm happy

I mean, the 10^max should dominate

If a == b, you get log(2)*a

I know that

But say when a != b

@LegionMammal978 Roughly, yes

(I use natural log, base there)

5:39 PM

(is there a closed form expression for the exact value which doesn't calculate the exponents themselves? a and b are large in my scenario)

the exact value of max?

The exact value of log(10^a+10^b)

Why are you doing this instead of just using max? It won't be faster I don't think

I mean it's just one branch

For extra accuracy, not writing a program here ;) (although it probably doesn't matter)

Here's base 10

Or this, without cheating

5:49 PM

@LegionMammal978 a + log(1 + 10^(b-a)) has a smaller exponent, if a and b are close.

Oh well

(For the record, the final result was ~10^10^10^3.29)

That is not a small number.

That is a big number.

@Upgoat You now have one more bug to fix! :D

;-;

why :D ???

@LegionMammal978 0.5*a*sgn(a-b)+0.5*b*sgn(b-a)+a/2+b/2

5:54 PM

^^

Hello @HelkaHomba!

cheddar> foo::bar
CheddarPropertyToken {
  Code: 'foo::bar',
  Index: 9,
  _Tokens:
   [ '::',
     CheddarVariableToken { Code: 'foo::bar', Index: 3, _Tokens: [ 'foo' ] },
     CheddarVariableToken { Code: 'foo::bar', Index: 9, _Tokens: [ 'bar' ] } ],

\o/ casting parsng worked fisrt try

@LegionMammal978 or 0.5*(a+b+sqrt(a^2+b^2))

Can someone confirm that 1080p60 and 720p60 are the only quality settings available for youtu.be/KyBJhwJG1jQ

confirmed it's probably still processing the other qualities

that and auto

also holy shit your computer is good enough to record in 1080p 60 fps

5:56 PM

@HelkaHomba yes

please give me your computer

@HelkaHomba does minecraft have goats yet

@HelkaHomba I confirm.

@quartata I guess but it's been 8+ hours :s

but thanks guys

@Upgoat No. But maybe I'll name a sheep Vihan and pretend

:D good enough 10/10

you can flip stuff upsidedown right?

5:58 PM

Pretty sure Project Zulu and Mo Creatures both have goats

@Upgoat yes with a name tag named Dinnerbone

name this sheep Downgoat :D

We'll see :P

Can't, has to be named Dinnerbone to be rendered upside down

oh yeah

@HelkaHomba That's why I didn't watch it more than a minute and a half earlier - was too slow to load. That does seem odd to me, so I expect it should be resolved sooner or later.

5:59 PM

@quartata -1 0/10 writing angry letter to mineecarft ;-;

I mean, I could write a plugin to make it work for the name Downgoat if you really wanted

But since it's not a goat anyways why settle for less

@El'endiaStarman Sorry :/ I did upload in 4k (upsampled for reason in description) but I would have thought the lower res ones would be there by now.

@quartata you can use texture pack though, right to make it goat?

@Upgoat Sure but they'll still drop mutton and wool

;-;

6:01 PM

I suppose resource packs can rename things now

hmm lemme see

@Upgoat you should make a kanban.

Yeah, the item names are just in a regular Java resource bundle

(for Cheddar)

@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 a wat

@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 what is it with you and exotic project management anyways :P

I don't think Downgoat has to worry about his little Cheddar factory workers not knowing what to do

6:03 PM

^

my factory workers are goats so it's hard enough as-is

@Upgoat a kan-ban.

Kanban (development)

Kanban is a method for managing knowledge work with an emphasis on just-in-time delivery while not overloading the team members. This approach presents all participants with a full view of the process from task definition to delivery to a customer. Team members pull work from a queue. Kanban in the context of software development can mean a visual process-management system that tells what to produce, when to produce it, and how much to produce - inspired by the Toyota Production System and by Lean manufacturing. == Overview == David Anderson was among the first to formulate the Kanban Method for...

how does this apply to programming

> Kanban in the context of software development can mean a visual process-management system that tells what to produce, when to produce it, and how much to produce - inspired by the Toyota Production System and by Lean manufacturing.

That's for when you have thousands of people you know

I'm ok with download script

cheese takes time to age so its not really possible

Dennis

6:05 PM

@LeakyNun Well congrats, I don't think I can match (let alone beat) that.

But a kanban board may be as easy as To Do | Doing | Done.

schas002:~/workspace $ time cheddar <<< "print 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+0"
45

real    0m0.369s
user    0m0.280s
sys     0m0.060s

O_o cheddar is slow

then again about speed:

3 mins ago, by Upgoat

cheese takes time to age so its not really possible

$ time perl <<< "print 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+0"
45
real	0m0.094s
user	0m0.001s
sys	0m0.006s

Alright, now do time python <<< "print 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+0".

$ time python -c "print 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+0"
45

real	0m0.008s
user	0m0.008s
sys	0m0.000s

6:10 PM

schas002:~/workspace $ time python <<< "print 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+0"
45

real    0m0.189s
user    0m0.012s
sys     0m0.020s

@quartata oh shit damn

looks like part of the problem is the workspace is slow as shit

Doorknob

llama@llama:~$ cat > kajigger.c
#include <stdio.h>
int main() {
    printf("%d\n", 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+0);
}
llama@llama:~$ gcc kajigger.c
llama@llama:~$ time ./a.out
45
./a.out  0.00s user 0.00s system 0% cpu 0.001 total

PS C:\Tools\Scripts> measure-command{1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+0}


Days              : 0
Hours             : 0
Minutes           : 0
Seconds           : 0
Milliseconds      : 8
Ticks             : 88491
TotalDays         : 1.02420138888889E-07
TotalHours        : 2.45808333333333E-06
TotalMinutes      : 0.000147485
TotalSeconds      : 0.0088491
TotalMilliseconds : 8.8491

Logical, as the workspace has only 512 MB and no way to change that.

@quartata maybe you should install cheddar so this stuff can be accurately compared ;)

6:11 PM

It needs Node, right?

if you have linux it'll doesn't if you have windows yeah

$ time python3 pytek_main.py -c "\print(1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+0)"
enter  - <pRoot>
enter  - <pFunction print>
enter  - <pOperator +>
finish - <pInteger 1>
next   - <pOperator +>
enter  - <pOperator +>
finish - <pInteger 2>
next   - <pOperator +>
enter  - <pOperator +>
finish - <pInteger 3>
next   - <pOperator +>
enter  - <pOperator +>
finish - <pInteger 4>
next   - <pOperator +>
enter  - <pOperator +>
finish - <pInteger 5>
next   - <pOperator +>
enter  - <pOperator +>
finish - <pInteger 6>
next   - <pOperator +>

ha ha

@Upgoat Accurate comparisons? Pshaw. :p

@quartata And that's with all the printing.

@El'endiaStarman hehe

@TimmyD I would have tried Cheddar but:

/dev/fd/63: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'
/dev/fd/63: line 1: `<!DOCTYPE html>'

@Upgoat I think you're doing it wrong

6:17 PM

um wat

I suspect it's sending me a 404

what command are you doing to install

The one on the Github

make sure you're doing: sh <(curl -fsSL cheddar.vihan.org/i/nix/cheddar)

(that's the one on the website)

you should update the readme

6:18 PM

yeah, I'll do that in the next merge

oh god your website is way too web 2.0

:D

well at least I wouldn't have been able to tell this was made by a goat

:/

./bin/install: line 14: : command not found

I don't think you're cd-ing into the install directory first

6:20 PM

wat

dammit

Web 2.0++

no I am

cdrtmpdir="cdrtmp-`date +%s`"
sudo git clone github.com/cheddar-lang/Cheddar.git $cdrtmpdir
echo "Configuring installation..."
sudo chmod -R 777 $cdrtmpdir/
cd $cdrtmpdir   # Notice this line

>_> it just worked on ubuntu and centos @quartata what OS are you on?

I'll just install it by hand screw this

@Upgoat Oh wait, it's not that

It's the grunt

Oh, I know why.

You should really make it not require sudo; make them authenticate as root themselves

how?

Just remove every instance of sudo

6:24 PM

nah, people then think imma hack their computer

too much inconvinence

I'm one of those people who thinks sudo is the spawn of the devil and refuses to use it

:| okay... will remove in next release

As a result I ran this as root and sudoing messes up my path meaning it can't find npm

this commit must be nightmare then :|

I'm not sure you need to worry about "inconvenience" in an install for an experimental esoteric programming language.

6:25 PM

Ooh, gets better and better

Warning: Task "install" not found. Use --force to continue.

>_> wat

you know I could just run this directly

you really don't need this exotic install process, it's just a js file

Error: Cannot find module '/home/quartata/cdrtmp-1466101146/src/cli/repl.js'

it's clearly named as repl.es6

wat

that's not..

Oh shit, you gotta Babel it first. That's why you have Grunt

imvery confused

6:27 PM

@Upgoat I just ran node cheddar.es6 directly

i dont think you can do that

you'll have to run cheddar.js in the dist/ dir

Guess I'll feed these to Babel by hand and rename the files

@quartata what OS are you on?

@Upgoat Right, but Grunt is the worst build tool I've ever seen

nvm i take this statement back

6:28 PM

@Upgoat ubuntu

wat, works fine on c9 ubuntu

maybe manually install node (LCS) & npm

Eh, forget this. Just time the thing locally and tell me the time so I can make fun of you

@Upgoat I did

I'm using my own build of node

oh okay

v5.0.0

little out of date

Anyways the problem is most likely in Grunt

oh you're not on node LCS i think

6:30 PM

@Upgoat This isn't really a stock Ubuntu per se

if you have realpath or GNU readlink then it should work fine

what's node -v and npm -v?

6:44 PM

@Zgarb So the equilibrium is when every symbol is the same, like aaa...?

@Dennis Why you give up so fast.

How many rep do you need to protect a question? I'm too lazy right now to search for the list

@Bálint I believe it's 5k iirc

And why is it better, than leaving it like thast?

Dennis

7:03 PM

Protecting questions rarely makes sense on PPCG. However, common problems on SO and SU tend to attract Thanks, your answer helped me. or I'm having the same problem. "answers", so protecting it shields it from new users.

@LeakyNun It's rather hopeless with my current approach, but I'll take a look later.

@Dennis but sometimes very popular questions get lots lf answers by new users who don't read the rules etc.

@Dennis The 34->32 golf made me feel so stupid.

Before I post to MSE about chat notifications, would anyone like to say something in this room without pinging me?

Doorknob

7:19 PM

No.

Perfect. Thank you :P

flawr

@trichoplax What are you going to post?

@flawr Finer control of chat notifications. I'll link from here when I post

The Dark Knight - Some Men Just Want To Watch The World Burn

►

@LeakyNun I even put without in italics... :P

7:21 PM

@trichoplax ill bet 50 rep itll go ignored by SE

It seems like selecting "visible room" from the Sound notifications menu (speaker symbol at top right) causes notifications for all posts (pinging or not) from all rooms that are open in a tab, regardless of whether it is the active tab.

As soon as I want to monitor activity the room goes silent...

Look, I posted 3 out of the latest 4 posts...

can someone post something?

@LeakyNun Yay - posts without pings. That was just what I needed and confirms I get a noise from this room even when viewing a different room

All done now - you don't have to be silent anymore... :P

strawpoll.me/10502374

7:39 PM

@LegionMammal978 Gray for America, grey for England.

A mnemonic I learned some time ago that has been quite useful to me.

I wonder if that works for Australia

Poke

More like "grey" if you're not incorrect

HA, gottem

@trichoplax Australian English is closer to British English than American English, probably since they gained independence more recently.

What's the 256th character of the extended ASCII table (the one with the charcode of 255)?

@LegionMammal978 i did wrong answer i did grey when i write gray

7:40 PM

@Bálint fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/00ff/index.htm 'LATIN SMALL LETTER Y WITH DIAERESIS' (ÿ)

@LeakyNun Another site says it's the nbsp

@Bálint Which site?

I wonder what the S in ASCII stands for...

@Bálint It's ÿ in Unicode, NBSP in CP437

So, wich is the original?

7:43 PM

Non-breaking space

In word processing and digital typesetting, a non-breaking space (" ") (also called no-break space, non-breakable space (NBSP), hard space, or fixed space) is a space character that prevents an automatic line break at its position. In some formats, including HTML, it also prevents consecutive whitespace characters from collapsing into a single space. In HTML, the common non-breaking space, which is the same width as the ordinary space character, is encoded as   or  . In Unicode, it is encoded as U+00A0. Non-breaking space characters with other widths also exist. == Uses and variations... ==

I'm not a characterset expert

@LeakyNun One that uses CP437 (e.g., asciitable.com)

@LegionMammal978 CP437 is not unicdoe

PhiNotPi

@El'endiaStarman Pretty sure it's grey for America, gray for England.

Poke

i trust asciitable.com. that's the one i use

7:44 PM

@LeakyNun Was saying that a site stating that it is NBSP is using CP437

@Poke nobody's saying it's wrong

mınxomaτ

A new windows build is here (XX366). It takes a long time to install, so keep an eye on your active hours to prevent unexpected restarting.

Poke

@LeakyNun just adding my 2 cents.

@Bálint Well, CP437 was used by DOS...

@LegionMammal978 Alright.

Q: Adjust notification settings per chat room

7:44 PM

0

At the top right of a chat room, just above the room title, there is a speaker icon. Clicking on this icon brings up the settings for "Sound notifications": Currently, a change to this setting affects all chat rooms. Selecting "visible room" means that an audio notification is given for any ac...

@flawr This ^

Can someone create me a RegEx, withc matches a single comma, but not multiple?

@Bálint (?<!,),(?!,)

It can't use look before

That's my problem with it

@Bálint ^,$|^,[^,]|[^,],$|[^,],[^,]

@LeakyNun Thank you

7:47 PM

@Bálint Note that it will also match the surrounding characters

That's a problem

I hate how javascript doesn't support lookbefore

@Bálint ^(,)$|^(,)[^,]|[^,](,)$|[^,](,)[^,] capture groups 1 to 4 (or 0 to 3 if you suck)

@Bálint solution: don't use regex

I need to split a string at every comma, but if you have 2 commas, it needs to match the second one

@Bálint (^|[^,]),(?!,)

7:49 PM

^

flawr

@trichoplax My first reflex was to close the popup in the image=)

So pretty much every comma, wich doesn't have a comma after it

Wait, that can be done with a negative lookahead

@flawr I almost did that myself, even though I posted it... Especially as the mouse pointer changes when hovering over the image

@Bálint what exactly is the task you're trying to accomplish?

,(?!,)

7:52 PM

@Bálint Are relevant commas always followed by a space?

@Bálint blog.codinghorror.com/…

@Upgoat That's not that complicated

@Bálint This works with your last description but not your first

Yeah, I didn't express myself well enough

alright

mınxomaτ

7:56 PM

Chrome is now ~500% faster than Safari on OS X/macOS

@trichoplax American Standard Code for Information Interchange