The Nineteenth Byte

Katenkyo

3:00 PM

both bug and feature, wanted and unwanted

Nathan Merrill

Heisenbugs: Impossible to consistently reproduce

Ninja-bug: Always occurs right before your breakpoint

zyabin101

Who is user53010?

Katenkyo

@zyabin101 It's the father of user53011

Martin Büttner

@NathanMerrill the more serious heisenbug is the one that can be consistently reproduced in a production environment, but never shows up when you try to debug it.

zyabin101

@aditsu bbl?

Katenkyo

3:05 PM

@MartinBüttner I think I love this definition, because it seems to always happen to me...

zyabin101

@Katenkyo Looks like user No. 53011 keeps a low profile for 2 days. Or not?

Nathan Merrill

oooh, if you are given a number N, and take the remainders when you divide by K divisors (starting with 2, then 3, and so on)

what is the minimum number of divisors you need to identify the number?

Hello

hi!

@You o/

3:07 PM

@zyabin101 Yes, it's me. You!

Nathan Merrill

(assuming that the first number with the remainders is the one you want)

PhiNotPi

Philosophical question: Did I invent my username, or just discover it?

You

@PhiNotPi You have it. :)

It really depends on how you got your username.

Nathan Merrill

for example, 7 can be represented using the sequence (1,1)

because it's the first number with remainders of 1 when you divide it by 2 and 3

Geobits

Sounds like a nice challenge.

Nathan Merrill

3:13 PM

I'm trying to find a test case that matches an earlier number, but the earlier number can be represented using a shorter sequence

PhiNotPi

@NathanMerrill Prime divisors, or integers 2,3,4,5,etc.?

Nathan Merrill

I was thinking integers, but primes could work

Geobits

@NathanMerrill You mean like 13 (1,1,3) and 7 (1,1)|(1,1,3) ? (using integers)

Nathan Merrill

oooh

maybe, let me verify

13 is 1,1,1

Geobits

Oh... right >_>

19 then

Nathan Merrill

3:16 PM

yeah, 19 would work

PhiNotPi

So an input of (1) means 1, and input of (1,1) gives 7, and an input of (1,1,3) gives 19.

Nathan Merrill

no, opposite

you accept 1, and you need to return (1)

PhiNotPi

Other than that, the pairs are accurate?

Nathan Merrill

the sequence needs to be the shortest possible sequence though

no, because 19 shouldn't return (1,1,3)

because it also represents 7

zyabin101

I made something for zyabinVI! \o/

Nathan Merrill

3:20 PM

(1,1,3,4) should be sufficient though

PhiNotPi

My assumption was that, since (1,1) represents 7, then (1,1,3) can unambiguously represent 19.

Nathan Merrill

right, which is why I wanted a test case to prove that assumption wrong :)

PhiNotPi

Why is it wrong?

Nathan Merrill

well, according to my spec

Geobits

So 1) put all remainders for input n in a list 2) do the same with all m<n 3) Find the shortest starting sublist of nlist that isn't a start to an mlist. Something like that?

Nathan Merrill

3:21 PM

If I were to say there's a one to one between tuples and numbers

then you would be right

zyabin101

Swag collectors and not just: GitHub released a water bottle.

Nathan Merrill

@Geobits yes.

I think there's a faster algorithm than that

aditsu

@zyabin101 be back later

Geobits

Probably. Are you interested in fast or golf though?

I think you'd need some big-ass numbers to time it.

Nathan Merrill

yeah, it'll be code-golf

but I hope that somebody does find the faster one

it might even be shorter if its doing a bunch of math

maybe I'll give it a large test case and require it to run under a minute

Geobits

3:24 PM

Could be. It's worth posting the challenge for sure ;)

Martin Büttner

@NathanMerrill don't do that unless you know for sure it's possible.

Nathan Merrill

Ok :)

Martin Büttner

but I think you might be right that there's a much simpler solution

Nathan Merrill

huh, the reverse challenge is also interesting

(1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8)

Geobits

So the first few, starting at 2, would be (0),(1),(0,1),(1,0),(1,1),(0,0),(1,1),(0,2),(1,0,1)...

Martin Büttner

3:26 PM

I think you need to pick divisors such that their LCM is greater that the input

Nathan Merrill

that represents the number 1

Geobits

Interesting pattern so far.

Martin Büttner

@Geobits 7 should be (1,1,3)

Geobits

I screwed something else up there, too...

Nathan Merrill

@MartinBüttner why? 1,1 works?

its 5 that is wrong

Martin Büttner

3:29 PM

oh right

Nathan Merrill

it should be 1,2

Geobits

I don't know how I got (1,0) for 5 though.

Martin Büttner

it's also off by 1 somehow

Geobits

And then it skipped 6 >_<

Martin Büttner

Geobits messed up

Nathan Merrill

3:29 PM

lol

Geobits

Very badly.

Crap, my two-minute deletion window is over :(

Martin Büttner

3 isn't correct either

because 1 would be (1) already

New Main Posts

4

Q: Build a triangle without any triangles

As a little kid, I liked to play with these toys a lot: They probably intended for these to be used for art, but I always used them for math! Fractals, patterns, etc. One time, I was given this challenge: Build a triangle without using any of the green triangle tiles. This challenge stum...

Geobits

@MartinBüttner I just assumed we were starting at 2, tbh.

Martin Büttner

@NathanMerrill do we assume that only positive integers are represented? or 0 as well? or 1 isn't?

Nathan Merrill

3:30 PM

hmmm

Geobits

If starting at 0, then 2 would also be wrong.

Nathan Merrill

yeah, I'm going to start with 0

ooh, that's brutal

Geobits

Okay, I'm gonna forget this conversation ever happened now.

Martin Büttner

@NathanMerrill should 0 be ()? :P

Nathan Merrill

it ruins my current program

no, (0)

you need at least 1 number there

and 1 is (1)

Martin Büttner

3:32 PM

k

Nathan Merrill

because technically, (0,0,0....) is 0

we just shorten it as far as we can

so, (0, 2) is 2

Martin Büttner

(0), (1), (0,2), (1,0), (0,1), (1,2), (0, 0, 2), (1, 1, 3), (0, 2, 0), (1, 0, 1), ...

Nathan Merrill

I knew what I was saying

just was thinking "2 is the divisor for 3"

:)

Martin Büttner

anyway, yeah pretty sure that the length of the list is non-decreasing, and increases whenever we hit lcm(2,3,...,n)

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Winning Solitaire Mancala Boards Mancala is the name of a family of board games that usually involve a series of cups filled with beads that the players manipulate. This challenge will use a specific rule set for a solitaire variant of the game. The board consists of a "basket" at one end, foll...

Doorknob

3:39 PM

@MartinBüttner no, I didn't see it

Martin Büttner

4

A: Find the program that prints this integer sequence (Cops' thread)

Ruby, 46 bytes Edit to add disclaimer/apology: This sequence starts with f[0], while the OEIS entry starts with f[1]. The values are the same. Obfuscated code (# is any character): ->####or x##1###(#..##0#);x*=3;end;#.###ect:+} Call like ->####or x##1###(#..##0#);x*=3;end;#.###ect:+}[3] (re...

Nathan Merrill

3:51 PM

@MartinBüttner I can verify your findings

for the first 1000 numbers, every minimal listing length is either greater than or equal to the previous one

and, oddly enough

the lengths skip from 4 to 6

Martin Büttner

sure because adding 6 to the list of divisors doesn't increase their LCM

Nathan Merrill

oooh, interesting. So, then 10 to 12 should skip as well

Martin Büttner

8 to 10 as well

Nathan Merrill

no, because 8 is 2^3

right?

the same reason why 4 wasn't skipped

Martin Büttner

you're off-by-2 ;)

skipping from length 8 to length 10 means skipping divisor 10

Nathan Merrill

3:58 PM

oh, yeah, my bad

I was trying to say that with my 10 to 12 example :)

Martin Büttner

it was still correct though :P

Nathan Merrill

yeah :)

well, I've done it for the first 10,000 cases

my algorithm is n^2, so I don't want to do more than that

also interesting, right before it moves to the next size, the sequence is always 1..n

Doorknob

I successfully wrote the second functional Babble program

ARRHELLOWORLDZEPUT

it outputs HELLOWORLD

zyabin101

So, ARRHello, World!ZEPUT would output Hello, World!?

Doorknob

no, it would output HW

all [^A-Z] are ignored

zyabin101

4:02 PM

@Doorknob Aww...

El'endia Starman

I like how your "say" is ARR. :P

Doorknob

(now I have to implement "escapes" (Z[A-Z]) so strings can contain more than uppercase letters)

@El'endiaStarman It stands for ARRay literal. Strings are represented as arrays of bytes

zyabin101

@MartinBüttner The sequence should be A029858.

Nathan Merrill

So ARRHZeZlZlZoZ,Z WZoZrZlZdZ!ZEPUT

Martin Büttner

@zyabin101 yes

El'endia Starman

4:04 PM

@Doorknob Oh, that's less exciting. :P

Martin Büttner

and it's probably implemented via Sum(3^i)

Doorknob

@NathanMerrill no, all [^A-Z] are actually removed from the code before even looking at it

Nathan Merrill

ah :)

Doorknob

something like ZLA will stand for lowercase A -> a

Luis Mendo

Hey! Congrats, @Dennis!

codegolf.stackexchange.com/tags/code-golf/topusers

zyabin101

4:10 PM

Martin Büttner

@LuisMendo took him long enough ;)

@zyabin101 doesn't load

Dennis

@LuisMendo :)

mınxomaτ

^^

Luis Mendo

@MartinBüttner Haha. You are still top overall :-)

zyabin101

@MartinBüttner Text version: So, A029858(n) = (3^n - 3)/2.

Dennis

4:11 PM

@MartinBüttner How is the difference between us so big? We roughly have the same amount of answers...

PhiNotPi

Are there any tags for which I am the all-time highest rep earner?

Martin Büttner

@Dennis the difference is much smaller than the difference in answers?

@zyabin101 that's what your OEIS link said, right?

zyabin101

@MartinBüttner Right.

Now, to fit that in the code...

Martin Büttner

like I said, probably implemented as sum(3^i)... I'm having more trouble getting the syntax right around that or (probably for)

Dennis

@MartinBüttner No, I mean difference is answers in code-golf vs difference in answers overall..

Luis Mendo

4:14 PM

The hardest part of the conic-section challenge is to find out which sixth equation to add to make the system determined :-/

Martin Büttner

@Dennis oh right. I guess I've got more popcon/koth/cnr answers.

PhiNotPi

I'm in second place for brainfuck

All because of that one KOTH

Dennis

Definitely more KotH, since I have zero...

Nathan Merrill

oooh, the sizes go up at each point in this sequence:

oeis.org/A051451

New Meta Posts

1

Q: (When) do my mod tools go away?

I opened SE a few minutes ago and was pleasantly surprised to see I'd reached 2k rep, and alongside that gained access to mod tools (sehr interessant). I was mostly very confused, since I was certain mod tools come at 10k rep. By browsing http://SITENAME.stackexchange.com/help/privileges on vari...

support reputation design moderation graduation

Martin Büttner

4:21 PM

@NathanMerrill why am I not surprised that this sequence exists :)

El'endia Starman

The Mystery Of Asparagus Pee

►

This may or may not be an apeeling topic for everyone... :P

zyabin101

> apeeling

lol

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

o_o

New Main Posts

1

Q: Generate the minimal remainder sequence

Every number can be represented using an infinitely long remainder sequence. For example, if we take the number 7, and perform 7mod2, then 7mod3, then 7mod4, and so on, we get 1,1,3,2,1,0,7,7,7,7,..... However, we need the shortest possible remainder subsequence that can still be used to distin...

code-golf sequence

Alex A.

4:37 PM

I should find something to undownvote; my reputation is 18880 which is frustratingly close to a palindrome.

FryAmTheEggman

Not even a Dennis number... :P

Nathan Merrill

I can get you 1 rep:

Alex A.

@NathanMerrill Sounds shady. Do we meet in an alley?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@AlexA. I can downvote twice.

then upvote

Alex A.

Heh, pass.

Rainbolt

4:39 PM

There are two ways to solve this problem:
1. Make it less frustratingly close to a palindrome
2. Make it a palindrome

Nathan Merrill

there we go!

Alex A.

Wtf what happened

Nathan Merrill

although, its not really a palindrome

Alex A.

I got +1

Nathan Merrill

because its represented using a comma

18,881

Alex A.

4:41 PM

I got +3 ._.

El'endia Starman

Numbers don't have commas. Only their representations.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Numbers don't have digits :P

Nathan Merrill

@AlexA. fixed

El'endia Starman

Also, aren't we all programmers? Anyone here who puts commas in their numbers in code?

Optimizer

Numbers don't have numbers.

Alex A.

4:42 PM

Is Resolve SAS Macro Variables a bad challenge? It just got downvoted. If people are voting in weird ways just to make my rep a palindrome I would appreciate it if they wouldn't.

I mostly just wanted to complain about it not being a palindrome.

Optimizer

from here on, we shall make sure that your rep stays 18881

Alex A.

Well that was a weird adventure, my rep is back to 18880.

Nathan Merrill

you know, this site is great for introducing you to new languages, but terrible at giving you good introductions

I mean, maybe Ruby is a great language, but I have no idea

because I only see it in the super-golfed form

Alex A.

That's true. Stack Overflow and Code Review are better places to get introduced to good and/or idiomatic code in non-esolangs.

Nathan Merrill

yeah, but SO and CR are more biased towards frequently-used languages

less so CR, but still

Optimizer

4:46 PM

Although, CR folks would keep bugging you for incorrect indentation or unoptimized code.

and missing comments

Alex A.

Hm. [feature-request] give other sites something similar to the upcoming Stack Overflow Documentation.

Optimizer

our documentation will also be golfed

a lot

Alex A.

That would be the perfect place for giving introductions to esolangs as well as the tips questions.

Martin Büttner

@NathanMerrill for some reason, when people post heavily golfed answers in well-known languages they don't feel the need to explain them as thoroughly than when they post in an esolang no matter how well it's golfed.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^

Optimizer

4:48 PM

"Its Python, every body knows it"

El'endia Starman

@MartinBüttner They probably assume more people know the language, and yeah, I too think that's an issue.

Alex A.

@MartinBüttner This is an excellent point. I've also noticed that very few people who golf in Mathematica explain their code at all, with the exception of you.

Martin Büttner

codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/77786/8478 ummm

Nathan Merrill

well, outside of TIO, the explanation is one of the best ways we have to verify correctness

Alex A.

Golfed Mathematica is as unreadable as any golfing language, IMO.

Martin Büttner

4:49 PM

(okay, I just posted that, and will probably add an explanation when I get around to it, but yeah :D)

Optimizer

Mathematica might be easier to read as the function names are pretty bowled

Alex A.

haha

FryAmTheEggman

Yeah it's more the @@#$ or whatever being a synonym for first that's a pain to read :P

Optimizer

ughh, chat search is so bad, I think it only searches for whole words

Nathan Merrill

@MartinBüttner you've got a pretty funny suggested edit on your answer

Martin Büttner

4:53 PM

@Optimizer yeah, with a weird definition of "word"

@NathanMerrill :/ rejected

Optimizer

May 31 '15 at 23:31, by xnor

BuiltInThatSolvesTheChallengeForYouButWhoseNameIsSoLongThatPythWinsAnyway

found it

Martin Büttner

impressive

Optimizer

Nov 25 '15 at 21:45, by Alex A.

3

oh and that too.

its pretty hard to search for images in chat-search

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^

Optimizer

providing the right color average and variances is hard

Alex A.

4:56 PM

@NathanMerrill Whoa, what the hell

Nathan Merrill

?

Alex A.

> Mathematica, 55 bytes + fake bonus points

Nathan Merrill

its a reference to my question

Alex A.

Oh

@QPaysTaxes codegolf.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/29918

FryAmTheEggman

You can go to the review queue and look at the history FYI if you want to find other ones yourself.

Alex A.

4:58 PM

@NathanMerrill Nice question, by the way. Just read it. I might post an answer a little later.

FryAmTheEggman

But you can see the edit? Weird I thought they came together...

Nathan Merrill

@AlexA. thanks :)

Alex A.

@FryAmTheEggman Hm? What do you mean?

FryAmTheEggman

I didn't realize that you could look at the one edit without the review priviledge

Alex A.

Ohh gotcha

New Sandboxed Posts

5:07 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Random Wikipedia Browsing Here's a short one for you. Create a program or function prints or returns the title of a random Wikipedia page (similar to Alt + x functionality) Rules: Program or function will take no input Program or function will print to STDOUT (or nearest equivalent) or retu...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

popularity-contest fastest-code

mınxomaτ

@QPaysTaxes xdg-open

wnnmaw

Hey, so @QPaysTaxes wonderfully pointed out a url that makes my proposed challenge trivial to solve, is it considered acceptable to simply disallow that url?

FryAmTheEggman

@wnnmaw I think you might then get a problem with people just making another URL that does the same thing?

wnnmaw

@FryAmTheEggman, they can do that? I really need to learn how the internet works

Alex A.

5:16 PM

Yes

Just like how Quill made ppcg.lol

It could be if you make it

wnnmaw

ok, so then any suggestions to make this non-trivial?

Nathan Merrill

@wnnmaw the challenge is, by definition, trivial

unless you really want the program to store every possible url, and randomly select one

wnnmaw

@NathanMerrill, certainly not. Oh well, at least I found out in the sandbox

Well thanks for the help folks!

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I've made a new language!

"META"

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I'm becoming increasingly less excited every time you say this... :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

5:25 PM

@El'endiaStarman Oh well. It's fun. Besides, this is the most messed up thing I've made in a while.

Hey, it hones my craft--it helps me make really good langs.

It's also a nice thing for me to do when bored >_<

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ In a way, you're actually right about that. If you produce 100 languages, you're more likely to produce a good one than someone else who only makes 5.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman Precisely! The ones that are good will shine, and the ones that aren't are forgotten. This one is just for trolling the programmer tho

El'endia Starman

haha, okay

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

First portion of "Hello, World!":

vXK:{>.>:<.^;>,<v.^;;v.>>;<<^;v.v.^^;}
WJSM
 T

(Not even close to done.)

"META", my own language.

It's an acronym for "META External Transpiling Application"

@QPaysTaxes why? :3

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ And I presume the "META" in that is an acronym for the same thing? :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

5:31 PM

@El'endiaStarman No, it's an acronym for "META Extra Tier Acronyms"

@QPaysTaxes ... "IMSMETA?" what's that?

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ....and the "META" in that?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman It's nondeterministic, so it's usually one of the first two.

@QPaysTaxes I know :3

El'endia Starman

@QPaysTaxes That doesn't really work though. "decreasingly excited"? "decreasingly less excited"? "decreasingly more excited"?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

"This is the reference implementation of the self-referential joke."

Yup :3

El'endia Starman

@QPaysTaxes Eh, that'd work, but doesn't really deliver the same impact. :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

5:33 PM

How about "more less"? :3

No, "more mostly lesser"

wtf Bing

What quality?

bing-hate hi-five

It's probably better than yahoo.

Geobits

5:50 PM

These Expeditions lands keep showing up...

Cyoce

Which one makes more sense/is more useful for a golfing language? [1 2] + [4 1] -> [5 3] (zip ish?) or [1 2] + [4 1] -> [5 2 6 3] (cartesian product ish?)?

Quill

3

Alex A.

Sometimes I feel like the only one here who doesn't play any of Magic: The Gathering, Dungeons & Dragons, Nethack (or other roguelike games), etc.

@Cyoce Neither of those is a zip or a Cartesian product, at least as I know them

El'endia Starman

@Cyoce I'd never expect the latter. At least, not with +.

Geobits

@AlexA. I haven't in a long time. I'm just getting back into it now that my kid is old enough to play.

Cyoce

5:56 PM

:29015057

El'endia Starman

@AlexA. I don't play any of those. :P

Cyoce

Ok guys. Here's the confusion. You think that + is a generic operator, it's not. My question is how math operations in general should affect arrays.

Alex A.

@Geobits Even so, you used to play; I guess I just don't have any interest in them.

@Cyoce Elementwise, like R

[1,2] + [3,4] == [4,6]

Geobits

@AlexA. I just assumed you didn't play because dice and cards are difficult for birds.

El'endia Starman

@Cyoce I think two of Pyth, CJam, and Jelly do it element-wise, or otherwise known as vectorizing.

Quill

5:58 PM

@Cyoce Next time some beats the javascript bush, I'm gonna link that

Alex A.

@Geobits -.- I like the 52-card deck, blackjack et al. kind of card games

Cyoce

So [1 2] + [4 1] -> [5 3] is elementwise because it is [(1+2), (2+1)] and [1 2] + [4 1] -> [5 2 6 3] is cartesian product because it is [(1 + 4), (1 + 1), (2 + 4), (2 + 1)]

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

In math a scalar + matrix => vectorized addition

matrix + matrix => member-wise addition

Cyoce

Fine

I'm not good with terminology

The question is which of the two behaviors is more useful for golfing.

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