The Nineteenth Byte

somebody

9:07 AM

would an ibus keyboard for cjam/the esolangs that use really weird chars be useful?

Katenkyo

Finally done with the post

somebody

wait

Katenkyo

0

A: The Holier Numbers

Lua, 317 Bytes I had some troubles doing this, some things in Lua don't work as I think it does. I will have to try and play with them if I want to golf this down. Explanations are coming, but for the moment, here's the golfed code! function f(y)h=0(y..''):reverse():gsub(".",function(c)h=c:fi...

somebody

does the userscript have auto-TIO execution for answers without a TIO link?

Katenkyo

If someone find why the table.sort doesn't work, I would be happy to know ^^

Anonymous

9:12 AM

@orlp I tried using a linear-time algorithm and ended up with a worse score somehow

flawr

@El'endiaStarman I've never seen it before, and it I was not able to find a reference that using ans is acceptable. This is clearly hardcoding and the code-golf specs say that if not specified, you have to provide a function or a full program.

Or do you see that differently? I just searched thou meta and did not find any clue why this should be acceptable either.

Anonymous

@flawr You have a point, though Ans is the closest thing TI-BASIC has to command line args

flawr

@Mego No, you can specify input variables in TI-BASIC programs!

somebody

D: why does everyone use TI-BASIC instead of CASIO-BASIC?

flawr

  :addThree(n)
 :Prgm
 :Disp n+3
 :EndPrgm

Anonymous

9:23 AM

@flawr Really? I never knew that. Oh well, down with the Ans answers.

flawr

Also there is Input and Prompt

orlp

and X if the program is a graph

flawr

How can a program be a graph?

orlp

if the output must be a graph in some way?

flawr

What would the code of such a program look like?

orlp

9:36 AM

5X+1

input in the graph field of the TI

flawr

Well that is just and expressions and does not ask for any input

Anonymous

X is also a normal variable

Anonymous

(outside of the graphing feature)

feersum

@orlp I tried writing my own version and got the same score as @Mego to 15 decimal places...

orlp

@feersum can I see the code?

flawr

9:39 AM

But when you want a program you'd have to write 5X+1->y1(X) which is a snippet that defines a graphing function.

feersum

OK

If you look at the code you will regret it though

Probably has bugs too.

@orlp pastebin.com/6Esg1B2p

orlp

@feersum UnboundLocalError: local variable 'nz' referenced before assignment

print f([1, 1, 1, 1, 100000])

feersum

@orlp Oh, in the big else block it should say addall = xs / not01

Anonymous

I haven't refreshed chat in a while:

Anonymous

feersum

9:46 AM

Funny how the test cases didn't trigger that.

Anonymous

And now I don't want to

orlp

@feersum ye, making test cases is hard

Anonymous

@feersum None of the test cases will end up with an initial list with sum > 32767 with the method you and I use

feersum

Yes it will

E.g. [1, 1]

In mine, that is

Anonymous

What score do you end up with if you change the generation to 1000 histograms (with seed 0 still)?

Anonymous

9:49 AM

I get 8.006724986235526e-06

Anonymous

Wait that can't be right

orlp

8.0067249862355206e-06

for feersum's code

Anonymous

Oh wait yes it can

Anonymous

So his is slightly better for the 1000 set

orlp

no

not significant

probably floating point error

Anonymous

9:50 AM

Oh true, at that point it could be rounding errors

Anonymous

I think this score may be optimal (or as close to optimal as we're gonna see)

Anonymous

So it really just depends on the complexity

feersum

Mine has a lot of extra code to eke out some differences of 1

But after squaring it might be almost too small to show up

orlp

I have a more complex benchmark

Anonymous

Which really means it's more of a fastest-complexity challenge (and thus a chameleon challenge)

orlp

9:53 AM

t = []
for _ in range(1000):
    l = 1 + min(int(random.expovariate(1/100.)), 1000)
    l2 = 1 + min(int(random.expovariate(1/100.)), 1000)
    l3 = 1 + min(int(random.expovariate(1/100.)), 1000)
    li = [int(random.expovariate(1/1000.)) for _ in range(l)] + [0]*l2 + [1]*l3
    random.shuffle(li)
    t.append(li)

yet this still doesn't manage to trigger the overshoot case like [1, 1, 1, 100000] does

oh wait

edited the code

now it triggers it

feersum

Do you have an answer validator?

i.e. that you don't have illegal zero/nonzeros

orlp

for your code

assert sum(o) == S
assert all(bool(a) == bool(b) for a, b in zip(o, h))

Thijs ter Haar

@Dennis I updates my quine answer with what I think is a true quine

Sherlock9

@Mego I figured two beta function challenges were a little much, but what do you think I should do now?

feersum

I demand fully graduated function challenges.

Anonymous

9:56 AM

@Sherlock9 Pick one or the other

Anonymous

@orlp 8.006772588874205e-05 for seed 0

Sherlock9

Any preference for which one?

orlp

@Mego that's different than feersum

he gets 8.1980761942105327e-05

Dennis

@ThijsterHaar OK, I'll check it put when I'm awake. (It's 7:00, I should probably go to sleep.)

Sherlock9

There's multiple ways to write this up. I'm not even sure whether to do any restricting besides disallowing beta function built-ins

Maybe gamma as well

Anonymous

9:59 AM

So I get the better score on that data

orlp

@Mego could you edit your answer such that it defines a function like feersum, and then you call that function for every line?

with open(argv[1]) as f:
    for line in f:
        hist = literal_eval(line)
        print(model(hist))

and you define model

Anonymous

@Sherlock9 What I would do is either just do the complex one, or do the complex one with the caveat that languages without complex support are still welcome and may solve the real version, but aren't competing

orlp

@Mego even better is

import fileinput
for line in fileinput.input():

Sherlock9

@Mego Brilliant. I'll do that.

Jan Dvorak

Congratulations on graduation!

Anonymous

10:05 AM

@orlp Updated

orlp

@Mego don't make 2 versions man..

just delete the old one

somebody

@orlp but there are still Seriously 1 programs, and they aren't back-compatible

like python 2 and python 3

Anonymous

@orlp Done

Sherlock9

@Mego Done. Check it out again when you have the time, thanks

feersum

Is it possible to pull updates from Sourceforge svn using git?

orlp

10:11 AM

@feersum ok, mego's solution for now is better

tested with this

gist.githubusercontent.com/orlp/f1987f6fe72352de5104/raw/…

feersum

OK, I don't plan to mess with it any more

Sp3000

@ThijsterHaar Nice one :) Lots of room for golfing, but nice one :) A quick one to start - I don't know why people are so fascinated with ", but you can do 3d* for '

zyabin101

10:29 AM

Looks like Grace Note has a distinct avatar for each of the 152 Stack Exchange sites.

Sherlock9

@Dennis Did you every find your significant figures answer?

I have found use in "{:.[sig figs here]g}".format(a)

Dennis

Yeah, I'll switch all of Jelly to SymPy.

Sherlock9

Alright. That works too

somebody

TIL Grace Note is actually a cactus

Dennis

format is equivalent to what I'm doing. It doesn't work if a is too big for a float.

Sherlock9

10:36 AM

@Dennis Oh hell. All right. And good luck with Jelly

Optimizer

Where's my swag?

Sherlock9

Also, how would you recommend I go about learning Jelly, bearing in mind that my main experience in programming is Python?

zyabin101

@Optimizer These haven't appeared.

Optimizer

@AlexA. why is calvin gone?

zyabin101

@Optimizer Helka doesn't want to get a trademark strike.

Optimizer

10:38 AM

wait, which calvin?

zyabin101

@Optimizer Helka Homba (formerly Calvin's Hobbies).

Sherlock9

@flawr I never got your email through meltmail, unfortunately

somebody

@Sherlock9 Jelly is completely different from an object-oriented language like Python. Start here.

Sherlock9

Ah good, so I'll have to build my brain back from the ground up. Excellent

Sp3000

"an object-oriented language like Python" <-- Not the first thing that'd come to mind when I think of Python, but OK :P

Jan Dvorak

10:44 AM

or of object oriented languages :-D

Sherlock9

I would have said that Python is an imperative language. What do you guys think?

somebody

*C-based?

@RikerW userscript looks still broken

Katenkyo

@Sherlock9 yup, imperative I think

somebody

@Sherlock9 no, python (like many current languages) is multi-paradigm

Katenkyo

Multi-paradigm has become a trend :3

Jan Dvorak

10:54 AM

I hope you agree Java is pure OOP ;-)

somebody

nope

look for 'paradigm' here

Katenkyo

@somebody it still stays OOP, even with Java 8

> that is concurrent, class-based, object-oriented

Jan Dvorak

Java doesn't even have first-class functions.

Katenkyo

If you start saying a language isn't OOP but Multi-paradigm because it could be used in an imperative way, there's a problem in the definition.

Jan Dvorak

Plenty of languages have been adopting functional style primitives.

somebody

11:00 AM

@Katenkyo ctrl+f, paradigm

Katenkyo

@somebody I did, but I won't change my mind here.

Jan Dvorak

OTOH, Haskell has acquired a bit OOPisation, too. Not much in terms of runtime polymorphism, though.

Katenkyo

On the same point, it isn't because Java 8 now support some tools to allow functionnal programming, that it adds the functionnal programming paradigm to its CV

Jan Dvorak

Java has never been functional. In either meaning.

Katenkyo

Else, you couldn't say of 99% of languages that they aren't multi-paradigm, which then lose it's meaning

Jan Dvorak

11:03 AM

> Java works on every device... until Word of God says otherwise.

Katenkyo

@JanDvorak Java does what you ask it to do, slowly, but it does

Jan Dvorak

@Katenkyo until a new version comes out. If you're lucky the original author is still active and signs the applet again.

Katenkyo

@JanDvorak because you upgrade your compiler without needing to do it on production code maybe? :)

Jan Dvorak

Well, no. When a new version of Java comes out, the old one flat out refuses to work. Literally.

Katenkyo

So how do you explain that some companies still use java 1.5?

A compiler doesn't magically refuse to work

somebody

11:07 AM

e.g. written in Java 7, when run with Java 8, chat gradually becomes smaller

Jan Dvorak

At least for web-facing stuff it does. Desktop apps are inherently insecure, so there's no point to require the latest runtime for them. New version can still break hard-coded paths, though.

Katenkyo

@JanDvorak some companies uses a 1.5 compiler for their web-facing application (while not the best thing to do..)

I've worked in one, and automatised the nightly build/test/deploy for their java apps

Jan Dvorak

But, 99% of the applets written in 1.5 compilers aren't signed enough to let newer runtimes run them. And older runtimes just resign.

by web-facing I mean applets, not servlets.

Katenkyo

@JanDvorak Oh, so you were speaking about the code in itself..? Anyway, if you upgrade compiler, you're ready to do some changes in your code, so it doesn't change that

Jan Dvorak

I mean that 99% of java applets on the Internet flat out refuse to run, and their authors aren't around anymore to do the necessary dance.

Katenkyo

11:14 AM

never encountered that, so can't say anything.

Jan Dvorak

Shall I toss you some examples?

Wait, no, right now I'm unable to tell if applets refuse to run because they aren't signed or if it's just because a new Java version has come out since I've restarted my browser.

Katenkyo

I'd be glad, I'll look at them after my break

oh

Jan Dvorak

Seems I did restart the browser in the meantime.

Example #1: ventrella.com/alife/Cells/GlidersAndRiders/…

Katenkyo

Looks like my version of Java is obsolete too, I'll do that later :)

Jan Dvorak

I've tried the site exception list, too. Either it takes a really long time to update or I don't know the right syntax (and it's not specified anywhere either). Perhaps I need to know what CDN the applet gets pulled out from (problematic because of actual CDNs and also to find out) or to enable it for each URL separately (plain dysfunctional)?

zyabin101

11:33 AM

Meanwhile, I've been doing an activity to nest programs in multiple languages. Any suggestions for this? New tasks? New solutions? Improving scores?

somebody

@zyabin101 github.com/mame/quine-relay ?

also, what is the really long number for?

zyabin101

@somebody Looks like, but I don't want to make an ourobos program. It's very hard.

@somebody This is a ruler so that I can count bytes easily, in the IDE/editor/interpreter/whatever.

*ouroboros

somebody

@zyabin101 it's a lot easier with -5----10---5----20---5----30 etc

what does get question of the day do in the userscript? (when are they added to the cookies?)

zyabin101

@somebody Also, this program is way too long for the defaults of my activity (57 sloc that is way bigger than 64 bytes).

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

12:16 PM

Hello?

somebody

hello

Thijs ter Haar

12:39 PM

@SP3000 That's a good tip! I'll see if I can golf the code (especially try to aim for as much 2byte pointers instead of 4byte pointers as possible) later today :)

zyabin101

@ThijsterHaar He's @Sp3000.

Mitch Schwartz

1:18 PM

@xsot i think you meant 55 instead of 57? i wouldn't have tied you if you didn't give hints about there being a magic number, and that it could be brute forced :)

Sherlock9

@LuisMendo How do you suppose I can best frame my beta function question? Let complex inputs be? Forget complex inputs and have only deal with real inputs? I'm not sure how best to approach this

Mitch Schwartz

i found 15 with this program, and didn't find any alternate formulations ideone.com/PiIKJf

were you able to pass with a different magic number somehow?

Nathan Merrill

@Sherlock9 allowing complex inputs makes programs more difficult (which is not a bad thing).

er, requiring*

Sherlock9

I figured. And it removes quite a few built-ins since most of those require real inputs, as far as I recall

So, I suppose I'll post the challenge in a few hours. Any other tips, additions, ideas, edits, etc. are welcome

somebody

@Sherlock9 you forgot the http://

Sherlock9

1:29 PM

Welp, that's for the moderators to fix, if they decide to

New Meta Posts

1:40 PM

0

Q: Having both an "easy" challenge and a "hard" challenge

I've been working on some upcoming challenges of mine, one of them a Traffic Light Simulator code-challenge, the other a Mafia king-of-the-hill. There are certain elements I can include that makes the challenge significantly harder. In my Traffic Light Simulator, I can either make the roads all...

discussion

somebody

2:30 PM

@HelkaHomba you might want to change your name in PPCG MC server chat's message

Lynn

2:44 PM

Oh my gosh, Ton Hospel has found PPCG.

Mitch Schwartz

@xnor i was actually one of the committers in area 51, then i got sidetracked for a while (and had to write admins / tech support to access my account since myOpenID got shut down in the interim)

so i'm partially a traitor :p

mınxomaτ

3:05 PM

So many DDoS attacks suddenly...

A bunch of 80 to 180 MBit/s attacks from Israel to our company's servers. Also, someone is attacking/scanning the codegolf.xyz TLD, so I shut that down for the moment.

Mitch Schwartz

@Lynn wow

Rainbolt

Who is Ton Hospel?

Lynn

The Chuck Norris of Perl golf.

Rainbolt

How did he start with 101 rep when he isn't a member of any other site?

Nathan Merrill

@Rainbolt he has exactly 10 upvotes

Lynn

3:14 PM

I think he just has 101 rep from answers?

Rainbolt

Oh, whoops. I missed that lol

zyabin101

3:34 PM

My day out ends soon. :/

RikerW

3:56 PM

@somebody Did I break it?

@zyabin101 Sorry to hear that.

STAY WITH US

@Calvin is now @HelkaHomba. Aw.

chat.stackexchange.com/users/121917/calvins-hobbies

Still calvin there.

Luis Mendo

@AquaTart Thanks for the edit! I hadn't noticed it was a catalog

Aqua Tart

np

Catalogs have kinda died out.

RikerW

^

Luis Mendo

@Sherlock9 Perhaps separate the real and complex case in two challenges. I'd start with the real case and, depending on the answers you get, post the complex one later. I think the complex one may be much more difficult than the real one. In Matlab (which is what I knowe best) thee gamma function only accepts real inputs

@Sherlock9 But then, I may not be being objective. I know a 10-byte answer for the real case :-P

Aqua Tart

@orlp I agree but El'endia really likes the name :P

RikerW

4:06 PM

I know that, I just realized it was the weekly gain not total.

Aqua Tart

You can sort it in other ways too.

RikerW

I was happy that Dennis had 4,099 but was confused about the rest.

@AquaTart I just realized that.

As to the person who merged @All with me, ಠ_ಠ.

Aqua Tart

in The 2nd Monitor, 41 secs ago, by Pimgd

then I can have a new, unmolested duck

The things I've seen in the 2nd monitor....

RikerW

^

Downgoat

@Mego status-completed

Aqua Tart

4:14 PM

in The 2nd Monitor, 1 hour ago, by Pimgd

@JNat why does the logo come off when you rub your duck

RikerW

lol

Aqua Tart

in The 2nd Monitor, 27 secs ago, by Pimgd

We take ducks seriously here at CR

RikerW

Apparently.

Luis Mendo

@HelkaHomba So why the name change?? Just curious

RikerW

Copyright things.

Aqua Tart

4:15 PM

in The 2nd Monitor, 1 min ago, by Aqua Tart

I kinda was hoping you meant a clean build of Rubberduck or something

RikerW

He didn't want to get in trouble if he gets swag.

Luis Mendo

Hey, I'm in hot network questions!

23

Q: Picture of an old friend in ASCII art

I hope this picture looks familiar to you. It's one of Pacman's ghosts in his "vulnerable" state, after Pacman has eaten a power pill. The challenge Picture our ghost in a little frame, using ASCII art. At normal scale (more about this later), each square in the above image should correspond...

code-golf ascii-art kolmogorov-complexity

Aqua Tart

@LuisMendo people are suckers for Pac Man

RikerW

^

Luis Mendo

@AquaTart Hm. What do you mean? (non-native here)

RikerW

4:17 PM

They see pacman and go OOH PACMAN *UPVOTEUPVOTEUPVOTE*.

Luis Mendo

Aah... ok :-)

RikerW

Don't worry.

Aqua Tart

@LuisMendo "Sucker" usually means someone easily fooled/fleeced/cheated.

RikerW

In this case suckers means easily supsceptible to PPCG charm

ninja'ed

And mine was better. PPCG charm FTW.

Aqua Tart

Anyways, definitely an idiom.

Nathan Merrill

4:22 PM

@AquaTart I had a pacman KoTH that didn't get very many answers, and wasn't really that interesting of a challenge

Luis Mendo

Thanks! I only knew the negative meaning of "suckers". As in "hey, you sucker".

Nathan Merrill

but it still got lots of upvotes

Aqua Tart

Yep, case in point.

@LuisMendo English is weird

RikerW

^

@NathanMerrill you seem to really like KOTHs.

Luis Mendo

@AquaTart Indeed! Which makes it a lot of fun. You never stop learning

Aqua Tart

4:23 PM

Yep :P

Nathan Merrill

I love them

Aqua Tart

KOTHs are cool but hard to organize :/

Nathan Merrill

its why I joined the site, and its 90% of my participation here

Luis Mendo

For example, the first time I saw "methinks" I thought it was a joke :-D

Nathan Merrill

@AquaTart wait for my upcoming controller. It takes so much work out of them

Aqua Tart

4:24 PM

! ooh

RikerW

^

strawpoll.me/6907810

Aqua Tart

@RikerW What would it be about?

closed as too broad

Eridan

@VoteToClose I finished LetterRobot, and I'll upload the source to Github tonight.

RikerW

Either KOTH style with everybody attacking each other, or code-challenge to the highest score.

I would have to write a controller/interface to let the bots do stuff easily.

Aqua Tart

A code-challenge to design a high-scoring nethack bot would be cool but I know for a fact there's an optimal strategy

Nathan Merrill

4:27 PM

high-scoring would be a code-challenge

RikerW

@AquaTart Aw.

Nathan Merrill

a KoTH would be with them attacking each other

Aqua Tart

@NathanMerrill sorry brainfart

> It is possible to achieve extremely high score (MAXINT on 64-bit platform) by exploiting bug SC343-8 - "Re-animating a statue containing gold produces too much gold.", as it allows duplicating for an effectively infinite amount of gold.[2] Berry ascended with 9223372036854775807 points during Junethack tournament.

:P

Nathan Merrill

Anyways, since everything is simply a reskinned nethack, a nethack KoTH is already done

orlp

why do people not like mice

they're so cuuute

mice playing

►

Hosch250

4:39 PM

Apparently, Marky is dead.

Hurricane996

Sneeze

zyabin101

@Hosch250 Nope, Marky is absolutely alive! \o/

Hosch250

He said he was dead!

mınxomaτ

Well, ...

zyabin101

Also, ETHbot is taking a revanche in the Battle of the Bots! Live on Boop Magg Beepot, Magg Beep Boopot and Beep Boop Maggot!

TimmyD

5:08 PM

> Not going anywhere for a while? Grab a Snickers.

Rainbolt

I wish I could have a Snickers :(

PhiNotPi

@NathanMerrill What features will this controller have?

Nathan Merrill

I'm aiming for complete invisibility of STDIO communication. You define a turn structure, and it'll automatically serialize and unserialize to and from other languages

also, various other packages, such as scoring

I'm building my own serializer, so that submissions don't have to do difficult parsing. (I'll be building parsers on other various languages, but those parsers would be optional as well)

the input format is var1;var2;var3;

and lists are seperated using commas

unless no commas are necessary

PhiNotPi

5:25 PM

@AlexA. Come up with a name for a regular, non-golfing language to be made by me.

Alex A.

@PhiNotPi Phi's Lango Supreme

Phi's Non-Golfo Supreme

PhiNotPi

Phi's Lango Supreme -> PLS -> primary lateral sclerosis

Dennis

RegularScript

Alex A.

TotallyNormalScript

PhiNotPi

OneTrueScriptingLanguage

Morgan Thrapp

5:27 PM

BowlingScript?

Maltysen

phiscript

Alex A.

OneScriptingLanguageToRuleThemAllScript

Maltysen

PhiScriptNotPiGolf

Dennis

CAPS (CAPS ain't PiScript)

Wow, So impressive and huge, not reading it...+1 though — Mr. Derpinthoughton 3 hours ago

LOL

TimmyD

!GolfScript

Alex A.

5:32 PM

PhiNotGolfScript

TimmyD

RugbyScript (it's about as opposite of Golf as you can get)

Alex A.

hahaha

HockeyScript. Hockey is like violent golf.

Nathan Merrill

PHI Has Interfaces

Alex A.

Protected Health Information?

TimmyD

check var peeks at the top of the stack ... var1 slashing var2 does div ...

Maltysen

5:36 PM

hahaha

Dennis

Got a call at 1:30 from a friend's son who was at the airport, waiting for his father. My friend's cell was unreachable, his computer was off. The son doesn't know Spanish nor how to get to his father's house, so getting there himself wasn't an option.
After trying to reach my friend for a few hours, I had no other choice but to go to the airport myself and pick his son up. He was naturally worried, but apparently I know his father better than he does. It turns out that the 24th at 00:30 doesn't mean the same to him as to the rest of the world. The day only changes after he has woken up...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

huh

TimmyD

So it's not "tomorrow" until after he wakes up? Makes a certain amount of sense ...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

What was the UTC time?

New Sandboxed Posts

5:54 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Crash the webpage [tag:code_golf] Inspired by a question(please step forward if you know which one) on Worldbuilding.SE, Cthulhu has been released over Facebook. Luckily, your twitter is linked to FB, so you can post a script that will crash the page so the can reset it. Character count is based...