The Nineteenth Byte

3:01 AM

OK I exaggerate - 2 of which are KotHs

A previous chat conversation about chess KotHs wandered towards unbounded playing boards and widely separated opposing pieces

Alex A.

trichoplax-exaggerated

El'endia Starman

@trichoplax That sounds pretty cool, actually.

SuperJedi224

@trichoplax The ordinal omega-one-chess is somehow related to that. I don't completely understand the definition though.

trichoplax

@SuperJedi224 I'll have to look that one up... :)

Wow. You dropped me well out of my depth:

cantorsattic.info/Omega_one_chess

@El'endiaStarman I'll see if I can find the previous conversation. I think we were talking about maybe limiting to moves of 8 squares in the legal directions for a given piece, and weighing that up against allowing moves of arbitrary distance in unblocked directions.

El'endia Starman

I think arbitrary distance is more interesting.

(Though of course, it's really limited to 2^31-1 or so.)

trichoplax

3:12 AM

I quite like the idea of unbounded playing fields for KotHs in general.

El'endia Starman

@trichoplax My sense of it is "the number of winning positions for white is infinite on an infinite board".

trichoplax

I was comfortable with that, but then ran into "but a variety of different infinities are available depending on the choice of rules"

SuperJedi224

Transfinite ordinals.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

3

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Growing Quine Sequence quine You are to write a sequence of 10 programs p1 p2 ... p10 that satisfy the following properties: pK prints pK+1 p10 prints p10 When the first K programs are concatenated, the resulting program p1...pK prints p1...pK. Each program pK must be larger in byte size tha...

Any glaring errors?

trichoplax

pK prints pK+1 for K from 1 to 9

(if you want to avoid the pedants)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

3:19 AM

Thanks :D

trichoplax

:)

Do you have an example to prove it's possible?

El'endia Starman

@trichoplax haha, yeah

Nathan Merrill

why do IDEs take such a long time to boot?

Alex A.

@trichoplax Aw, people are avoiding me now?

@NathanMerrill Because they're loading a lot of things. Compare this to starting up vim: it's nearly instantaneous.

trichoplax

@AlexA. As the one pointing it out, I'm pretty sure that makes me a pedant too :)

Alex A.

3:20 AM

<3

trichoplax

@AlexA. Icecream!

Alex A.

Where? I want ice cream!

Nathan Merrill

@AlexA. Right. What is it actually loading that takes forever? I know most IDEs have a skeleton of your code, but that should happen when you load the project, not the program itself

Alex A.

@NathanMerrill When you boot your IDE, you're awakening it from its eternal slumber. It has to get up, take a shower, have some coffee, and walk the dog. Then it can go to work.

3

Nathan Merrill

lol

El'endia Starman

3:23 AM

@NathanMerrill I'm guessing you're talking about Eclipse and/or Visual Studio?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@trichoplax No, I haven't tried :P

Even if it isn't possible, I'll post it for the votes X3

trichoplax

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I'm not a quiner so I can't guess either way

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Any quiners in here?

Nathan Merrill

@El'endiaStarman yes, and Jetbrains (my personal favorite) products

trichoplax

But once it hits main the quiners will see it and if it's not possible they will comment...

El'endia Starman

3:25 AM

I'm not a quiner, nor am I a whiner, nor a minor or miner.

trichoplax

Just a rhymer :P

PhiNotPi

He's a poet and he knew it.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Badum-tss!

PhiNotPi

^ ninja'd with my slant rhyme?

quintopia

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ i can quine

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

3:29 AM

@quintopia Cool!

Take a look at this:

PhiNotPi

I wrote a quine once.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

3

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Growing Quine Sequence quine You are to write a sequence of 10 programs p1 p2 ... p10 that satisfy the following properties: pK prints pK+1 for K from 1 to 9 p10 prints p10 When the first K programs are concatenated, the resulting program p1...pK prints p1...pK. Each program pK must be large...

Alex A.

Maybe it's just me, but I never found quines all that interesting.

PhiNotPi

Quines were interesting when I first found them, but all these quine variants aren't IMHO.

Alex A.

That's not to say yours isn't a good challenge, Conor. TBH I haven't looked at it. My remark is more in general.

El'endia Starman

3:33 AM

I'm in agreement with the above three messages.

Or, if you guys prefer, ^^ ^^^ ^^^^

^

@AlexA. Cool!

Uh what's cool

Cool is cool.

There was a chess KotH:

20

Q: Chess Tournament

This is a chess-KOTH with simplified rules (because chess itself is already complicated, playing it via a simple program doesn't make it easier). At the moment it is limited to java (version 8), but creating a wrapper-class isn't that difficult (in case someone wants to do this). Chessboard The...

Doorknob 冰

3:35 AM

so I still haven't fixed potato-terminal

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Speaking of cool, anyone have a good suggestion for a windows text editor? After the update, NPP is as slow as ice.

trichoplax

@Doorknob冰 How much of your computer can you still use?

Doorknob 冰

I was busy for a while and I forgot about it, so it was very surprising at first O_o

Alex A.

Doorknob 冰

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ vim

@trichoplax Chromium. That's all, pretty much :P

oh wait

I have terminals open already

Alex A.

3:36 AM

@Doorknob冰 What is potato terminal

Doorknob 冰

4 hours ago, by Doorknob 冰

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Doorknob冰 is that for windows?

Alex A.

@Doorknob冰 Wtaf

Doorknob 冰

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ vim is one of the most ported programs I've ever heard of

trichoplax

@Doorknob冰 That would be funny if you weren't trapped in it...

Alex A.

3:37 AM

I still think it's funny

Doorknob 冰

@trichoplax I realized I'm an idiot. I have terminals open from before I put that in my zshrc, so I can hijack one of those. :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Is Atom any good?

trichoplax

@Doorknob冰 So hang on, you did this to your computer? I'm changing my mind about trying not to find this funny :P

Alex A.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Yes!

I recommend it

Doorknob 冰

@trichoplax It was... errr... meant as an experiment

5

trichoplax

3:38 AM

lol

Alex A.

(I say, having NeoVim open instead of Atom >_>)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Trying atom

Alex A.

\o/

trichoplax

@Doorknob冰 So there's not a rogue PPCG answer we should avoid running??

Doorknob 冰

haha, no

Alex A.

3:39 AM

How did you do it?

I want to try

Doorknob 冰

zsh wizardry

Specifically, zle and bindkey

cmdline_intercept () {
    BUFFER="potato"
    zle accept-line
}
zle -N cmdline_intercept
bindkey '^M' cmdline_intercept

I put potato there to see if it was working

without thinking

SuperJedi224

Bye

Alex A.

^ the only appropriate response

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@SuperJedi224 peace

quintopia

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I upvoted it as soon as you posted it

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

3:41 AM

@quintopia oh, lol XD

do you think it's possible?

PhiNotPi

I just watched an 80-minute video of stylometric analysis of the Book of Mormon. shifty eyes

Alex A.

@PhiNotPi I don't know what that means

PhiNotPi

It's using statistics to analyse the writing style to figure out where the authors drew influence / inspiration from.

Somewhat similar to plagiarism detection, but more advanced than finding copied text.

Alex A.

Sounds interesting!

And the verdict?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@AlexA. ^

Alex A.

3:45 AM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Hi

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

:D I absolutely love Atom

Alex A.

If Windows thinks Atom is malware then it's really bad at detecting malware

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@AlexA. That's the point.

Alex A.

Oh okay

hah

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I'm so glad!!

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^_^

@AlexA. :D How can I change the tab width? winces

Alex A.

3:46 AM

It's in settings somewhere

Doorknob 冰

There's instructions at vim.org

Alex A.

@Doorknob冰 ಠ_ಠ

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@AlexA. cool

PhiNotPi

The most influential documents were the Book of Moses, Book of Abraham, and Book of Commandments (all three previously written by Joseph Smith), followed by a particular history book about the war of 1812.

trichoplax

@PhiNotPi Out of interest, did it mention what language version of those books were influential?

undergroundmonorail

3:50 AM

@PhiNotPi stylometric is a great band name

Calvin's Hobbies

How goes The Byte?

trichoplax

@Calvin'sHobbies It's running a healthy mix of chess and potatoes

Calvin's Hobbies

Mmm, chess and potatoes...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Calvin'sHobbies It goes! Alex showed me Atom, Doorknob has a potato problem, and GoldenRatioNotIrrational watched something called "Why the Mormon's plagiarized: an 80 minute production"

PhiNotPi

I'm not sure what you mean by language version, but I assume the English versions published in 1831, 1835, 1833, and 1816 respectively.

Doorknob 冰

3:52 AM

I fixed my potato problem

4

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Doorknob冰 Yay! I'm Irish, and that makes me happy.

Alex A.

@undergroundmonorail /me calls friends and starts band called Stylometric

Ampora

@Doorknob冰 Good job

PhiNotPi

I just found a giant webpage with a ton of comparisons between the Book of Mormon and the Late War: wordtreefoundation.github.io/thelatewar

Ampora

R饿ally good job

Calvin's Hobbies

3:55 AM

@AlexA. Don't get one of these silicone ice cube trays. You have to push each individual cube out with cold thumbs. The normal plastic ones where you twist to release the ice all at once work much better. /sage advice

Alex A.

@PhiNotPi I wonder how many Mormons in here are silently ಠ_ಠing

PhiNotPi

Like here's a really good one:
Late War: "But it came to pass, in the same year, that the people of Columbia were revenged of the evil:"
BoM: "And it came to pass that in the same year that the people of Nephi had peace restored unto them, Alma 50:37"

trichoplax

@PhiNotPi yes that is what I meant - I was wondering if it was influenced by the Torah in Hebrew or by English translations. On reading your comment again it sounds like I misread the first time - these are original works by the same author rather than translations of more ancient texts?

PhiNotPi

The first three were, yes.

Alex A.

@Calvin'sHobbies My freezer has one of those fancy ice makers where you push down the bar and it fills the little bucket in the freezer with ice.

Calvin's Hobbies

3:57 AM

"ice sage" lolz

Alex A.

Well you are an arctic fox, after all, are you not?

undergroundmonorail

@Calvin'sHobbies i don't like these because i'm not very strong and they make me feel bad about myself

Calvin's Hobbies

@AlexA. Yeah. I should be hibernating but the 19th byte keeps distracting me

3

Ampora

I'm not sure if th饿 conv饿rsation about ic饿 or Mormonism is mor饿 int饿r饿sting right now.

Alex A.

@Calvin'sHobbies Story of my life

trichoplax

3:59 AM

@Ampora Aren't you worried about being banned for excessive censorship? :P

Calvin's Hobbies

Birds hibernate?

@Ampora What happened to "Eridan"

undergroundmonorail

@Ampora not only are you cheating, it looks like garbage on my machine

Alex A.

@Calvin'sHobbies Well, I should have flown south by now, but the 19th Byte keeps me tethered to my computer in the great north woods.

trichoplax

@undergroundmonorail At least on your machine they are letter-sized... :(

undergroundmonorail

As opposed to?

Ampora

4:02 AM

@Calvin's I'm not using ASCII#69/101 this month b/c I don't know why

trichoplax

@undergroundmonorail as opposed to this ^

Ampora

As for 饿, it's Mandarin and has pinyin of ASCII#101 plus a thingy on top

undergroundmonorail

wow

Alex A.

translate: 饿

(from zh-CHS) Hungry

Then eat something

Doorknob 冰

I'm not sure if thhungry convhungryrsation about ichungry or Mormonism is morhungry inthungryrhungrysting right now

5

Ampora

4:04 AM

@trichoplax Doorknob and Al, our mods, must not ban without just cows

I think

Alex A.

> just cows

what

hahaha

caws

"just cause"

Ohhhhh

4:04 AM

sam饿 thing tbh

El'endia Starman

By the way, @Doorknob冰, I've enjoyed the chess puzzles on Lichess so much that I just made an account.

Doorknob 冰

@El'endiaStarman Yay! :D

Ampora

DoorknobIc饿

DoorknobIcHungry

Alex A.

I was like, "Pretty sure I don't need any bovine, regardless of their moral compass, to help me chat ban Eridan."

Doorknob 冰

@El'endiaStarman What's your username? I shall follow you

Alex A.

4:05 AM

I can do that easily >:D

@Doorknob冰 I would have followed you... my brother...

Doorknob 冰

@AlexA. It's 4 clicks, in fact

Ampora

You do not hav饿 just cows

As usual, Al is wrong

Doorknob 冰

Alex A.

@Ampora Al was my grandpa and AFAIK he wasn't wrong. Granted, I didn't get to meet him.

Ampora

That is not just cows. Also grass. And sky. And clouds

Alex A.

4:06 AM

@Doorknob冰 These are devious cows. We need just cows.

Doorknob 冰

El'endia Starman

@Doorknob冰 elendiastarman

Super creative, I know.

trichoplax

@Ampora Oh you meant Alex. I read it as "Doorknob et al"

El'endia Starman

Best username ever.

Alex A.

@Doorknob冰 These look at least 38% more just

Doorknob 冰

4:07 AM

@El'endiaStarman Okay, I followed you

El'endia Starman

cool

Doorknob 冰

btw we have a chatroom:

SE Chess

Let's play chess! Everyone is welcome. Winning is only optiona...

Ampora

As usual, [tag:al's-grandson-is-wrong]

^ Assist plz

Doorknob 冰

nobody tell him unless he starts using Es again

this is a hostage situation

Alex A.

>:D

also rofl hostigates

trichoplax

4:08 AM

I was about to, but saw your message in time...

El'endia Starman

Aww shoot, failing a puzzle actually costs now...

Sherlock9

Isn't it something like i-may-not-know-how-tags-work?

trichoplax

lol

Sherlock9

but-ampora-definitely-doesnt

Doorknob 冰

@El'endiaStarman Haha, yeah. Puzzle rating is basically a worthless number though since it doesn't count for anything (there's no leaderboards, etc.)

trichoplax

4:09 AM

only-with-e

Doorknob 冰

The only thing it's used for is to give you puzzles at levels similar to your stregth

Alex A.

It's too bad the tag syntax doesn't require the use of the letter E.

Ampora

cows

PhiNotPi

E eee'e eeeeee eeeee eeee ee ee eeeeeeeee eee ee ee eeee eee ee.

Ampora

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Alex A.

4:10 AM

:/

Ampora

grandson-of-al-is-wrong

Alex A.

Alright, I guess we have to chat ban him

trichoplax

We could just group ignore instead...

Alex A.

Mods can ignore people :)

Doorknob 冰

Generally it's not the best idea for a moderator to be chat-ignoring people :P

@AlexA. they can

Alex A.

4:11 AM

Oh you're right

trichoplax

they can???

Doorknob 冰

yes

Alex A.

Oui

Apparently

trichoplax

Wow. I was only joking - I won't be using it.

Alex A.

:(

trichoplax

4:13 AM

We could pretend to have ignored and then reply at unexpected moments

Ampora

为什么你们不喜欢我？我不高兴。

Alex A.

Saying that in front of him kind of defeats the purpose

translate: 为什么你们不喜欢我？我不高兴。

(from zh-CHS) Why don't you like me? I'm not happy.

I see two uses of the letter E!

trichoplax

@Ampora We do like you, hence playing along with your game rather than really ignoring you :P

Ampora

from zh-CHS you do >:(

Doorknob 冰

.i na'e nelci do ki'u lodu'u do na pilno zo .ebu .i .uinai

trichoplax

4:15 AM

In Welsh, both i and u are pronounced "ee"

Ampora

I wish I was tracking how many tim饿s I want饿d to t饿ll som饿on饿 som饿thing that would d饿finit饿ly g饿t m饿 bann饿d this month. That would b饿 funny.

Calvin's Hobbies

@trichoplax In Soviet Russia, code golfs you!

Ampora

Autocorr饿ct has also b饿饿n a pain

Alex A.

@Ampora Nobody is trying to be mean or anything. You're trolling us by omitting E, so we're trolling you back. ;)

mınxomaτ

@Calvin'sHobbies In soviet russia.

Alex A.

4:17 AM

Since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, code no longer golfs you.

Ampora

@grandson-of-al I AM a troll you potato.

Alex A.

?

PhiNotPi

@Doorknob冰 What does zo mean?

Doorknob 冰

doi @Ampora .i mi djica lonu do pilno zo .ebu .i ko pilno ri .inajo .u'isai mi gleki

trichoplax

@Calvin'sHobbies I'm trying to parse this. Coding does sometimes result in me having less bites...

Doorknob 冰

4:19 AM

@PhiNotPi It's like lu ... li'u, but it only quotes a single word.

Ampora

@Doorknob冰 ?

trichoplax

@Ampora potato? Did you copy-paste Doorknob's code??

Doorknob 冰

@Ampora mi ca'o cilre la jbobau .uicai

Ampora

Googl饿 Translat饿 d饿t饿ct饿d 饿nglish

PhiNotPi

How much time have you spent leaning Lojban?

trichoplax

4:22 AM

Please feed the trolls. They're hungry.

Doorknob 冰

@Ampora lo se cusku be la .gugyltransleit. cu jitfa

Alex A.

> gugyltransleit

lel

Doorknob 冰

@PhiNotPi Uhh, a few days. I've had nothing to do over the break. I've learned ~125 words on Memrise and read over CLL several times, but I still have to look things up a lot :P

PhiNotPi

Well, I better get busy then, I was actually thinking of (re-)learning some Lojban myself over break.

Doorknob 冰

It's so much fun, and it's interesting too .uisaisai

PhiNotPi

4:24 AM

What resources did you use?

Ampora

This is most annoying

Doorknob 冰

@PhiNotPi CLL, Memrise, and #lojban on Freenode IRC.

Also I read through Level 0 a bit.

Alex A.

Whomever downvoted World Big Dosa reversed their downvote and changed it to an upvote. o_O

That challenge is from early August

Who even still cares

Doorknob 冰

Why would anyone downvote World Big Dosa this is a travesty

Alex A.

It used to have +32/-1 and now it has +33/-0.

trichoplax

4:26 AM

Could it be 2 different people?

Alex A.

Oh sure

But they were within a minute of each other

trichoplax

It was mentioned in chat earlier...

A minute?? Oh...

Ampora

minigolf: r饿plac饿 all occur饿nc饿s of ASCII#101 in a string to 饿

trichoplax

@Ampora This doesn't make me feel like golfing. It just makes me hungry

Doorknob 冰

eeeee

Alex A.

4:27 AM

@Ampora Julia: s->replace(s,"e","饿")

Doorknob 冰

oops I was going to send him jQuery that makes you say eeeee but I accidentally ran it

Alex A.

hahaha

Ampora

I was flying from today and consum饿d nothing from 9AM to 10PM b/c airports

Doorknob 冰

.i do bliga lonu citka

I think this is a reasonable tradeoff. As long as @Ampora continues to not use "e," I only speak to him in Lojban. :P

trichoplax

Perfect for you maybe :P

Alex A.

4:29 AM

haha

trichoplax

Relevant:

2 hours ago, by Dennis

Let me rephrase: Mods do not troll. Even if you do not understand their actions, they're just doing their jobs.

Doorknob 冰

An attempt to coerce @Ampora into chatting in a more reasonable format. :P

trichoplax

Doorknob is doing this for very good reasons beyond our understanding

Alex A.

I understand it

Ampora

Dork Noob

Doorknob 冰

4:31 AM

Yep. Definitely. shifty glances

Alex A.

The Knob

Doorknob 冰

@Ampora i'enai

i'enai is roughly the Lojban equivalent of ಠ_ಠ

It's the attitudinal for "disapproval" :P

Ampora

Lಠnguagಠ programs containing only ಠ is how I will chat now. ಠ_ಠ

Doorknob 冰

.i'enaicai

(That roughly translates to ಠ_ಠ.)

Alex A.

How does a Lojban speaker verbally flip a table?

Beyond something like a Skyrim shout

Doorknob 冰

4:36 AM

.o'onaicai

anger-very strong

well, technically not-patience-very strong

Alex A.

oic

thx bb

ily

Doorknob 冰

@AlexA. je'e

Ampora

24.5 moar hours and this lipogramming junk will all finish...

Doorknob 冰

.i mi djica

Alex A.

^ something about jicama

Pachyrhizus erosus

Pachyrhizus erosus, commonly known as jicama (/ˈhɪkəmə/; Spanish jícama [ˈxikama] ; from Nahuatl xīcamatl, [ʃiːˈkamatɬ]), Mexican yam bean, or Mexican turnip, is the name of a native Mexican vine, although the name most commonly refers to the plant's edible tuberous root. Jícama is a species in the genus Pachyrhizus in the bean family (Fabaceae). Plants in this genus are commonly referred to as yam bean, although the term "yam bean" can be another name for jícama. The other major species of yam beans are also indigenous within the Americas. Flowers, either blue or white, and pods similar to lima...

Doorknob 冰

4:40 AM

wat

Alex A.

Hey, you're the one who's talking about jicama all of a sudden.

Doorknob 冰

.i mi pu na tavla do la .djikamas.

Alex A.

hella tavla la .djikamas, broseph

Doorknob 冰

.u'isai

Alex A.

baroness.bandcamp.com/track/isak

Doorknob 冰

4:44 AM

... what?

Alex A.

Doorknob 冰

22:42 < ldlework> The pointalism was just a metaphor lical segue into the statistical model
22:43 < durka42> wat

Alex A.

seriously wat

PhiNotPi

I just joined the IRC chat

Doorknob 冰

#lojban?

Ampora

4:50 AM

Good night all, you Logjam lunatics

lojban

Doorknob 冰

@PhiNotPi There's also #ckule (school in Lojban) for learners, although usually it's quite dead.

PhiNotPi

Largest .txt file I've seen in a long time: lojban.org/resources/irclog/all_logs.txt

Doorknob 冰

heh

Related: this is pretty awesome

Complete translation of Alice in Wonderland into Lojban.

I'm beginning to understand bits and pieces of it \o/

El'endia Starman

My puzzle rating graph on Lichess looks like a rollercoaster. :P

Doorknob 冰

Hahaha

that's mine currently :P

Alex A.

4:54 AM

@PhiNotPi ##ppcg?

Doorknob 冰

oh yeah does that still exist

Alex A.

Yes

AFAIK nobody uses it though

El'endia Starman

Huh, I'm getting good at spotting the queen sacrifice puzzles...

Doorknob 冰

"when in doubt, sac the queen"

They start appearing less often as your rating increases, though. :P

Alex A.

@Doorknob冰 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Doorknob 冰

4:57 AM

ಠ_ಠ

Alex A.

( ͡ಠ ͜ʖಠ)

PhiNotPi

I got UltraEdit as a "Christmas present of dubious utility" and am testing it out on that log file.

SE Chess

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