The Nineteenth Byte

El'endia Starman

5:00 AM

@quintopia Google? :P

Maltysen

maybe I can use dpkg

El'endia Starman

Unless you mean OEIS, but that's for integer sequences, not real numbers.

Alex A.

@quintopia Wolfram Alpha, maybe?

El'endia Starman

^ Oh yeah, maybe that.

Dennis

I'm guessing the name of this language comes from the fact that it makes everyone feel jelly. — geokavel 2 mins ago

That's the third comment like this I got on my Jelly answers. Is jelly short for envious?

El'endia Starman

5:02 AM

Slang for jealous.

Alex A.

^

Dennis

Alex A.

Important life lessons from The Simpsons.

Doorknob 冰

Hah, I transpiled Hello World from Ruby to JS via Opal and the result was 380967 bytes after minification.

El'endia Starman

In casual conversation, they're often used interchangeably.

Alex A.

5:03 AM

@Doorknob冰 what

El'endia Starman

That's...um...wow. A bad transpilation?

Doorknob 冰

Transpiling C Hello World to JS via emscripten (through LLVM) was just under 200000 (after minification).

Dennis

@El'endiaStarman Must be an English thing. Those are very different words in German and Spanish.

Alex A.

Opal was mad that you wanted to use JS instead of Ruby, so it added a billion no-ops to the transpilation.

console.log("Hello, World!");;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Dennis

@Doorknob冰 JavaScript or JSFuck?

El'endia Starman

5:05 AM

@Dennis Yeah, perhaps. I don't think a large portion of the population is aware of or really understands the difference.

Doorknob 冰

@Dennis The file size makes the answer to that question unclear :P

El'endia Starman

@Doorknob冰 Hahaha. Can you look at the first thousand bytes or so to see what happened?

Doorknob 冰

Anyway, I will probably use Ruby to implement my new esolang. If I do it in C, it'll be both smaller and waaaay faster when transpiled to JS for the online interpreter (asm.js), but implementing esolangs in C is a pain.

@El'endiaStarman Well, it has to implement the entire Ruby standard library, I guess

El'endia Starman

That's what I was thinking too.

Doorknob 冰

llama@llama:~$ echo '' | opal -c | uglifyjs | wc -c
380917

Dennis

5:07 AM

@Doorknob冰 I thought about implementing Jelly in C. Then I really thought about it and went with Python.

Doorknob 冰

@Dennis I already started implementing mine in C. Then I realized what a horrible mistake that was.

Alex A.

@Doorknob冰 You could do it in Julia and just have Dennis host it on TIO. :D

No client-side anything needed

Doorknob 冰

@AlexA. Nah, I want to put the online interpreter on my github.io page. :P

Dennis

@Doorknob冰 That's one expensive newline. We should use opal for code bowling.

Alex A.

I think an Opal transpiled JavaScript HW would win code bowling.

Doorknob 冰

5:09 AM

Before minification, the empty program is 572783 bytes.

Dennis

@AlexA. If it wasn't for Urinary, probably.

Alex A.

@AlexA. Wow, there were a lot of very, very specific things in that sentence that would make little or no sense out of context.

@Dennis Has someone made a urine themed esolang? If not...

Maltysen

I should make a challenge for Urinary

Dennis

@AlexA. No need to pick. It was true for all three statements.

Maltysen

except I have no idea what it should be about

Dennis

5:10 AM

@AlexA. I think it was the typo of the day.

Doorknob 冰

llama@llama:~$ diff <(echo '' | opal -c) <(echo 'puts "Hello, World!"' | opal -c)
19116c19116,19117
<   return nil
---
>   Opal.add_stubs(['$puts']);
>   return self.$puts("Hello, World!")

Apparently Opal just... implements Ruby in JavaScript, sort of.

Dennis

8 hours ago, by Thomas Kwa

> I've now rewritten it to use concatenation to count in urinary.

Alex A.

...

Doorknob 冰

So yeah, the entire standard library is included whether you use it or not.

Alex A.

@Dennis I knew that part

@Doorknob冰 brutal

Maltysen

5:11 AM

they should golf it to make it smaller

Dennis

> ninja'd by Doorknob 冰♦ 16 secs ago

Doorknob 冰

Running it through Uglify does shave off about 200000 bytes. :P

@Dennis >:D

Dennis

@Doorknob冰 And that is better than hosting it on TIO because... :P

Doorknob 冰

@Dennis ... reasons!

Dennis

Oh, OK. Can't argue with reasons.

Doorknob 冰

5:13 AM

The real reason is that I already put an "online interpreter" button in the header and I don't want to have to remove it from all of my pages.

Dennis

hahahaha

Maltysen

It does allow real time results

Dennis

What does?

Doorknob 冰

... you know, I could just implement it in JavaScript. Then I could do fancy stuff like animating the instruction pointer as it steps through 3D space.

Except that would require coding in JavaScript

Dennis

> made with ♥ by @Doorknob

Maltysen

5:15 AM

@Doorknob冰 coffescript!

Doorknob 冰

@Dennis you have discovered sekritz that are not yet ready for the world :P

@Maltysen I tried CoffeeScript once. I hated it.

Dennis

Privacy and GitHub do not go well together.

Doorknob 冰

@Doorknob冰 I don't remember why, but I did.

El'endia Starman

@Doorknob冰 Wow...that sounds familiar...

Maltysen

I still don't have /sbin/init. why?

Doorknob 冰

5:17 AM

@El'endiaStarman haha, forgot about the fancy Minkolang animation thing

El'endia Starman

^_^

Doorknob 冰

It would be... difficult to display things in 3d, though...

El'endia Starman

Though that's an idea I took from the Befunge interpreter I learned Befunge with.

New Main Posts

CABBAGE IS MY MEDICINE

6

El'endia Starman

@Doorknob冰 Depends on what you're fine with. I display each layer of a Minkolang program (when there's more than one) as a 2D grid.

Doorknob 冰

5:18 AM

Hmm... I think an increase by approximately 3.7kb is well worth the ability to avoid programming in JavaScript. :P

I liked @AlexA.'s version better

El'endia Starman

@NewMainPosts LOL.

And agreed with Doorknob.

Dennis

Sorry, I didn't realize it had already been edited.

Alex A.

Sounds like you need some cabbage

Doorknob 冰

FlagAsSpam

Anybody wanna help me write up a KotH program for Progressive Rummy?

Alex A.

5:20 AM

@FlagAsSpam no

Doorknob 冰

@FlagAsSpam What language?

Alex A.

@Doorknob冰 oh god that's genuinely terrifying

FlagAsSpam

@AlexA. Wow. Okay then.

@Doorknob冰 Jaffa. (Java, with autocorrect)

Maltysen

@FlagAsSpam who?

Doorknob 冰

@FlagAsSpam What is this Jaffa you speak of :P

Alex A.

5:20 AM

@FlagAsSpam I'm only joshing, chap. I may have an interest in this activity.

Dennis

If you want Alex's help, do it in Julia.

Alex A.

alex-knows-other-languages-than-julia

Doorknob 冰

If you want my help, do it in Rust

:P

Maybe I could help, but my Java is very rusty (no pun intended)

Dennis

@AlexA. alex-always-pressures-others-to-do-things-in-julia

Alex A.

@Dennis julia-is-great-and-does-all-things

Doorknob 冰

5:22 AM

s/ulia/Query/

Alex A.

s/Query/ulia/

ftfy

Dennis

chat.stackexchange.com/…

El'endia Starman

/me has written a KotH in JavaScript

@Doorknob冰 Example. (Hit the "Slow" button.)

Alex A.

@Dennis <__<

FlagAsSpam

Basically, I need to write a superclass with methods isValidRun();, isValidBook();, discard();, pickup();, and turn();.

Doorknob 冰

5:23 AM

@El'endiaStarman Oooooh, fancy

Dennis

The best part about JS is its type casting. Always makes me giggle.

4

El'endia Starman

[sigh] Type casting in JS...

So often unintuitive...

Doorknob 冰

3441

A: Does it matter which equals operator (== vs ===) I use in JavaScript comparisons?

The identity (===) operator behaves identically to the equality (==) operator except no type conversion is done, and the types must be the same to be considered equal. Reference: Javascript Tutorial: Comparison Operators The == operator will compare for equality after doing any necessary type c...

^ here be dragons

El'endia Starman

What do you mean, [1,2] + [3,4] is "1,23,4"?!?

FlagAsSpam

@Doorknob冰 Java has this, but it's not in most APCS handbooks...

Doorknob 冰

5:25 AM

@FlagAsSpam ... what? Java has ===?

FlagAsSpam

@Doorknob冰 Yeah - pretty sure, lemme double check.

Doorknob 冰

O_o

Dennis

With Java, I'm rather surprised it's not =======.

FlagAsSpam

@Doorknob冰 Nevermind, I'm an idiot - must've read it about JS and read Java. xD

fas-is-typically-wrong

El'endia Starman

Seven = signs. Let's be extra extra extra extra EXTRA EXTRA EXTRA sure they're equal.

3

I'm starting to doubt my spelling of "extra" after seeing it that many times.

Dennis

5:28 AM

Julia probably uses ⁼.

Doorknob 冰

OperatorFactoryFactory.getOperatorFactory( OperatorFactoryFactory.TYPES.EQUALS_OPERATOR_FACTORY ).setLocale( OperatorFactory.LOCALES.EN_US ).createBuilder( OperatorFactoryFactory.defaultInstanceDescriptionString() ).setOperator("===").unwrap()

4

Alex A.

@Dennis For what?

Equality?

Dennis

Equality testing. (at zoom factor 4.0, that's a =)

Alex A.

haha

It uses == for equality and === for sameness

El'endia Starman

My zoom method: lean closer to screen.

Alex A.

5:30 AM

^

El'endia Starman

Yup, that's an equals sign.

Dennis

I have a 30 inch screen and still can't tell. Must be my font.

Alex A.

Get more eyes

Dennis

I'm pretty much broken inside, but my eyesight is still perfect.

FlagAsSpam

> that's a =)

Maltysen

5:32 AM

are libfreerdp-plugins-standard important?

what about remmina-plugin-rdp

Dennis

Those are for remote desktop connections.

Maltysen

screw it purge

Doorknob 冰

7

Maltysen

oh I know, lemme try purging all three of them at once

Dennis

apt-get purge *

Doorknob 冰

5:34 AM

Once my apt-get tried to remove apt

Apparently it was conflicting with another package

Dennis

nice

zypper is so much nice than apt-get.

Maltysen

I can't even purge whoopsie because it is in a bad state

Alex A.

@Dennis no

Doorknob 冰

@AlexA. ... have you ever tried either zypper or apt?

Alex A.

Both, thank you very much.

Doorknob 冰

5:36 AM

When? O_o I thought you were an unswerving Mac person

Alex A.

I had an openSUSE virtual machine on which I used zypper. Then I trashed the VM accidentally and set up an Ubuntu VM instead. Then I used apt.

Dennis

@Doorknob冰 Alex once decided to force-halt a VM in the middle of an upgrade. openSUSE did not like that a bit. Alex's conclusion was that openSUSE is garbage.

Alex A.

@Doorknob冰 I'll use whatever's handy but I have my preferences. ;)

@Dennis Hahahaha that wasn't a conclusion based on that action XD

Dennis

@AlexA. Did I get that right?

Doorknob 冰

I notice a distinct difference between @AlexA.'s and @Dennis's descriptions ;)

Alex A.

5:37 AM

@Dennis Not quite

FlagAsSpam

@Doorknob冰 wrong vs. right?

Dennis

I'm running openSUSE of four different devices right now. It's as painless as it gets.

Alex A.

I have nothing against openSUSE, it just wasn't what I wanted in a Linux VM, I guess.

Doorknob 冰

I'm running Debian on my laptop. It is significantly more painless than Ubuntu, which I previously thought was painless. So I think Debian is fairly painless, but maybe I just haven't seen the light yet :P

Alex A.

I used SLED at an old job

Doorknob 冰

5:39 AM

South Carolina Law Enforcement Division

Superluminescent diode

a type of sliding vehicle

Dennis

One major pain with Ubuntu was getting VAAPI/VDPAU set up. Even if you managed to get it working, the next distro upgrade broke it.

Alex A.

The South Carolina one is right

Maltysen

I think I may have got it to work

Alex A.

SLED = SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop

Dennis

That's what the new openSUSE 42 is based on. Haven't tried it yet.

Maltysen

5:41 AM

@Dennis for me, the biggest ubuntu pain was network cards. But that maybe because I have cheap-ass toshiba laptops

Dennis

In my experience, out-of-the-box support for network cards is better in Linux than in Windows.

For laptops, I mean.

FlagAsSpam

@Dennis Not in any macs.

BCMs aren't supported for whatever reason.

Dennis

I've never installed any of those operating systems on a Mac.

Not that I'd want to. If I'm not going to keep OS X, there's literally no reason to spend that amount of money on the hardware.

(hypothetical scenario; I never have and probably never will own a Mac)

FlagAsSpam

@Dennis I didn't install it on a Mac - I installed it on a flash drive, but I gave it Mac, Asus, Lenovo, and HP support for wireless.

Alex A.

@Dennis ಠ_ಠ

Dennis

5:51 AM

@AlexA. Hey, if you want to buy me one, go ahead.

Alex A.

ok

Maltysen

wow, just looking at the apt-get output, Plasma has everything

is their messenger app called "konversation"?

does everything just start with "k" like in gnome everything starts with "g"?

Dennis

Pretty much.

Maltysen

a wallet manager?

Dennis

The terminal is Konsole, the browser Konqueror, etc.

Maltysen

5:54 AM

is it a good terminal?

why is mysql installing again?

Dennis

IIRC there no real difference between Konsole and GNOME terminal.

Maltysen

does it have the transparency settings?

Dennis

I haven't used GNOME is a long time though.

Maltysen

that's really all I want in a terminal

Dennis

Yes, it does.

In Settings -> Edit Current Profile... -> Appearance, you can create or edit color schemes, including their background transparency.

Good night!

El'endia Starman

5:59 AM

G'night!

Alex A.

G00d nYT

quintopia

@El'endiaStarman so the V thing means "stay on this layer", otherwise space means "go to next layer (wrapping)"?

El'endia Starman

@quintopia V is "boost", which keeps the spaceship (the instruction pointer) from moving through time (falling to the next layer). Now, if you hit it while going through time, you continue going through time.

quintopia

so, what i said is true, except that V, if encountered first thing when moving from a previous layer, also behaves like space.

El'endia Starman

What you said is true in an "accidental" way, so to speak. But yes.

If there's only one layer to the program, then space doesn't go to the next layer. It just stays on the same space because it loops.

quintopia

6:11 AM

sure sure.

it is a very nice javascript program, i must say

El'endia Starman

Thanks. :)

FlagAsSpam

String[] playerStrings = new File("src/com/VTC/koth/rummy/players").list();
for (String player : playerStrings) {
	ClassLoader.getSystemClassLoader().loadClass("com.VTC.koth.rummy.players."+args[0].trim().replaceAll(".java", ""));
	playerList.add((((Class<Player>) Class.forName("com.VTC.koth.rummy.players."+args[0].trim().replaceAll(".java", ""))).getConstructor().newInstance()));
}

El'endia Starman

Though the actual interpreting is actually done with Python.

FlagAsSpam

The most terrible way to make subclass instances. xD

quintopia

@El'endiaStarman I guessed as much based on the docs using python terminology

El'endia Starman

6:14 AM

haha, yeah...

quintopia

Is it easy to make a web front end for a python backend? how to go about that?

El'endia Starman

Easy? Well, hmm. It's easy once you figure it out...

I used Django.

quintopia

how2django plox

El'endia Starman

Out of date, but the code for the client-server interface.

@quintopia Start here.

quintopia

was already there :P

Maltysen

6:19 AM

@quintopia use Flask

quintopia

@Maltysen django seems easier for someone lazy

Maltysen

flask.pocoo.org

that's seven lines of code for a hello world

Alex A.

Says something about localhost on there. Must be phase's site.

Maltysen

I used django before, its a lot more complicated, everything is pre-integrated with it

Alex A.

@Maltysen I'm so perplexed by that other Maltysen account. Is your display name a reference to something?

Maltysen

6:23 AM

yes, but to something that no one outside of like 15 people should know

It was in a book my friend was writing, then gave up on

I really liked the name though, so I took it

Alex A.

Would any of your friends who also like it be now-defunct code golf users?

Maltysen

no...

Alex A.

So strange

Maltysen

and its before mine

Alex A.

Yeah. And its activity stopped about when your account was activated.

Maltysen

6:27 AM

we even answered on some of them same questions

Alex A.

5 mins ago, by Alex A.

So strange

El'endia Starman

@quintopia @Maltysen - I Googled "Django vs Flask" and found this. I think it's pretty accurate regarding Django. (The author messed up the formatting at the end, which is a bummer.)

quintopia

6:52 AM

@El'endiaStarman already read it back when we were talking about it

El'endia Starman

ah, lol

quintopia

now go crack that: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/68167/47050

El'endia Starman

I'll not do any more research since I'm sure you'll already have researched it. :P

quintopia

i'll go to bed

El'endia Starman