The Nineteenth Byte

Dennis

12:01 AM

Midnight, finally.

Alex A.

I've been thinking the same thing all day.

Hit the rep cap before I even woke up this morning.

Dennis

For once, it was the voting limit that bothered me.

Alex A.

Oh, I want the rep. :P

Alex A.

12:13 AM

@Dennis Do you speak Spanish?

New Main Posts

0

Q: Pushing my Hackerrank solutions to github

Is there a way to push my hackerrank solutions directly into my github repo ?

code-challenge

Geobits

I hate having to use a custom close reason for something that's blatantly off topic. I really don't think sending the latest one off to SO is going to be productive, though. It'd be nice to have a sub-reason listed exactly like the initial off topic description:

> This question does not appear to be about programming puzzles or code golf within the scope defined in the help center.

Sometimes that's all that needs to be said.

Sp3000

12:29 AM

^^ That would be good.

Dennis

12:40 AM

@AlexA. All day. :P

This isn't about the averages, is it?

vihan1086

1:09 AM

I'm giving up if anyone wants to continue where I left off I've left it here

Alex A.

@Dennis ? No?

@Dennis Makes sense. You must have a way with languages, given that you're from Germany, speak flawless English, and live in a Spanish-speaking country.

@Geobits SO used to have a close reason like that but one day it vanished.

feersum

1:33 AM

Now SO has only close vote reasons that direct users to Stack Overflow?

PhiNotPi

Imperative... Functional… Object-Oriented... Symbolic. Long ago, the four programming paradigms lived together in harmony. Then everything changed when the Golfing Languages attacked. Only the Geobits, master of all four paradigms, could stop them. But when the world needed him most, he vanished.

9

Dennis

@AlexA. I can write English (not sure about flawless).

I wrote moco in an answer to that question, which is Spanish for booger.

New Main Posts

1:59 AM

0

Q: Deep thought: Levenshtein distance

So, blatantly plagiarizing from inspired by this challenge and its sequel, I thought I'd add another. The text to match: What do you get when you multiply six by nine The result your function/program/etc. should print or return: 42 An online calculator for Levenshtein distance can b...

code-challenge

BrainSteel

Oh dear, it's the flags craze all over again.

Sp3000

... I sure hope Lev dist doesn't become the next trolling

BrainSteel

I think, if you were really clever about it, this kind of challenge could be interesting. I don't think what we have so far is that clever.

PhiNotPi

I don't know if I ever put this in the sandbox, but I had an idea once for code-gofl

The challenge is comprised of two sub-challenges. Your goal is to write two programs to solve the challenges, minimizing not only their length but the distance between them.

I believe the scoring was length of longer program + distance to shorter program

BrainSteel

We had a proposition like that in the sandbox. Someone pointed out that if(1){code1}else{code2} was a pretty cheap solution to the distance problem.

PhiNotPi

2:09 AM

I actually think that particular answer would be discouraged under my scoring method.

BrainSteel

Yeah, I think so. I think the other proposal was some kind of product of distance and shortness, so it was a bit more gimmicked. I can't find it right now.

Sp3000

@PhiNotPi We've had a challenge like that with twin primes and Collatz

8

Q: Pair-golfing Twin primes and the Collatz sequence

This is a new kind of challenge inspired by the Recover the mutated source code problem. You should write two programs or functions both in the same language. The first one should solve Task #1 and the second one should solve Task #2. Your score will be the sum of the longer program and the Le...

code-golf number primes sequence

PhiNotPi

I had the idea first.

Geobits

3:18 AM

What the... did I just become the Avatar or something?

3

Maltysen

3:28 AM

Programatar actually sound pretty cool.

Alex A.

@Dennis I'd say it's good--I thought you were American.

@Geobits Geobits: The Last Code Bender

5

Sp3000

Geobits: The Last Rule Bender

Alex A.

He's certainly not the last. ;)

Sp3000

3:44 AM

Hmm my (40, 40, 40) Tokyo (Shinjuku?) looks a lot like Geobits' but granier, and takes 10 times longer to generate :/

Alex A.

Wat

Dennis

@AlexA. In a way, I am.

Alex A.

:O German-Paraguayan-American?

Dennis

You guys are called estadounidenses here. Unitedstatesler or something like that.

Alex A.

Haha I definitely haven't heard that before, but I like it.

Dennis

3:55 AM

I always thought it was a little odd that American means "from the USA", given that America is the continent. The proper demonym is US-Amerikaner in German.

Alex A.

I think the American == from the US equivalence is mostly due to US arrogance. :P

Dennis

Probably. But as long as you produce 99% of the movies, TV series and internet content I consume, I forgive you. :P

Alex A.

Oh behalf of my country, I accept this.

Sp3000

@AlexA. Poor Canada

Alex A.

They're fine. They have maple syrup or whatever.

Dennis

4:10 AM

Maple syrup is really good btw.

Alex A.

Actual maple syrup is good. Unfortunately the most common "maple syrup" in the US is actually just flavored corn syrup.

Come to think of it, I think a lot of the most common US foods are just corn syrup...

Maltysen

Honey?

Alex A.

A lot, not all. ;)

Foods, that is. I mean honey is excluded from that. I think most honey is actually honey.

Dennis

When I read corn syrup in the ingredients, I already know where it's from. :)

Alex A.

It's certainly a reliable way to tell, however unfortunate.

Geobits

4:23 AM

@AlexA. I guess you could call it arrogance. Or realize that most countries do the same thing. The United States part is like the Federal Republic part for Germany, or the People's Republic for China, etc. Nobody says them, it's just German or Chinese.

The only arrogant part came long ago, when we namedourselves after the continent itself ;)

Alex A.

We namedourselves!

Geobits

Yep. It's frustratingly difficult to edit messages longer than the input field on my phone.

Calvin's Hobbies

We named ours elves?

Alex A.

@Geobits That's what I meant

Geobits

Well I named mine elves. I assumed we all did.

Alex A.

4:28 AM

Yeah, you named yours elves Devon or something, right? :P

Geobits

Singular elf in that case.

Calvin's Hobbies

elve

Alex A.

Geobats name his elve Devon

Calvin's Hobbies

elve looks like a motorcycle

4

Alex A.

Geobets: Geobits in Las Vegas

Geobits

4:31 AM

Only been there once, for a couple weeks. Nice (?) place.

Alex A.

Geobots: Drones that chat and program in Java

Geobits

Geobot should be singular, too. Long story, but you're basically right.

Alex A.

Geobats: Responds to the Bat Signal, i.e. chat pings

Geobuts: Self-explanatory.

Calvin's Hobbies

Geoburt - dirt flavored yogurt

Geobits

Well you guys look like you can handle this without me. I need sleep :)

Alex A.

4:35 AM

Aw, okay. Goodnight!

Calvin's Hobbies

I'm not really sure whats happening

Sp3000

Fun fact: The question mark in b?t can be replaced with any vowel (aeiou) and still form a valid word. What other three-letter patterns share this property?

Alex A.

h?t

Calvin's Hobbies

t?t

Alex A.

@Calvin'sHobbies Me always in The Nineteenth Byte

Sp3000

4:36 AM

looks up het ... oh

Alex A.

@Sp3000 hahaha I actually didn't know that, I forgot about the letter e

Sp3000

What's a tet?

Alex A.

Vietnamese New Year celebration?

According to Google

Calvin's Hobbies

I was thinking tete-a-tete

Alex A.

That's French though

Sp3000

4:38 AM

It's used in English conversations though, loanwords

But yeah extra e

Calvin's Hobbies

b?g

Alex A.

qu?te

Calvin's Hobbies

Big bog bugs begged for bags

Sp3000

b?g works - what's a quute? XD

Alex A.

What isn't a quute?

Calvin's Hobbies

4:42 AM

quate has no definition but is still valid?

@Sp3000 a quaint lute

Alex A.

@Calvin'sHobbies Has a definition in the Scrabble dictionary

feersum

p?tted

Alex A.

patted petted pitted potted putted -- nice!

t?n

Sp3000

I guess p?tting would also work, and maybe with a bit of a stretch p?ttings

Nice :)

Reto Koradi

just p?t would work, wouldn't it?

Alex A.

4:49 AM

Yep

Reto Koradi

I was thinking p?n, but I don't think pon is a word

Calvin's Hobbies

[bghp]?t

Reto Koradi

oh, pon is a word: merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pon

Sp3000

Maybe if you're playing mahjong

"also 'pon, 1550s, shortened form of upon." Hmmm

Alex A.

English speakers were really lazy in the 1550s.

Reto Koradi

4:54 AM

yeah, that sure changed ;)

ohrly?

idk

tru dat

And suddenly I'm reminded of the earlier discussion of acronyms.

Sp3000

\(^.^)/

Alex A.

4:55 AM

\_(**/)_/

(ô.ô)

Anyway, I'm going to get my lazy Unitedstatesler geobutt to bed.

Calvin's Hobbies

Is there any set of 25 valid words with the form CVCVC for 3 constant consonants and 2 variable vowels?

Alex A.

Have a good night, everyone! (Well, everyone except for Sp, who should have a good day.)

@Calvin'sHobbies Nope

Sp3000

There's not many words with ?u?u? to begin with

Peter Taylor

5:59 AM

@Dennis I prefer to use USian in English.

@Calvin'sHobbies The best you can get with SOWPODS is 15 for M.N.S : MANAS, MANES, MANIS, MANOS, MANUS, MENES, MENUS, MINAS, MINES, MINIS, MINOS, MINUS, MONAS, MONOS, MUNIS

Optimizer

6:21 AM

What happened over night ? I was owning the starboard and now its all gone..

Calvin's Hobbies

@Optimizer It was BrainF***ing time

Optimizer

It really was

New Sandboxed Posts

8:10 AM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Save the bunny! This King of the Hill competition is about a 2D flawn populated with bouncing balls and bunnies. The balls will collide with each other and the boundaries. If a bunny gets hit by a ball, it´s dead teleported away (for cuteness sake). Your task is to write a AI for the bunnies, su...

New Main Posts

9:05 AM

0

Q: Make the Stretchy Snakes Kiss

A stretchy snake looks something like this: <||=|||:)~ Each separate sequence of vertical bars (|) in a stretchy snake, known as a stretchy portion, is individually extendable to twice its width, and is drawn with alternating slashes (/,\) once extended. The particular snake above has two suc...

code-golf ascii-art string arithmetic

Optimizer

^ Probably the most controversial question in recent times.

Where is the PPCG censor board ?

Calvin's Hobbies

har har

randomra

12:00 PM

@Optimizer It is delegated from the HNQ readers

randomra

12:14 PM

@MartinBüttner for Retina an "exit on match" while loop might be nice e.g. [`.... ]`condition_regex for cases when you can't stop easily the effect of the loop regexes

Martin Büttner

sounds useful

feel free to open an issue on github

randomra

will do, idk how much it helps for golf but it is often convenient

orlp

Can stretchy snakes give consent?

randomra

@orlp If one isn't stretching, it can be sketchy.

If both are stretching they are clearly consenting.

Optimizer

@randomra The other one always has an option to stretch in the opposite direction.

If it is not, then I think its not sketchy

@Optimizer and then unstretch back

randomra

12:29 PM

@randomra you can link to yourself? cool

Optimizer

Apparently, you can talk to yourself too.

@Optimizer PPCG is full of forever alones!

Martin Büttner

@Sp3000 sorry, forgot about your ping. no I don't have an optimal solution for multiplexer yet. my best attempt was 272.

orlp

@MartinBüttner what are the rules surrounding popularity contests without clear winning conditions?

for example codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/35569/…

Martin Büttner

what's not clear about winning condition? most votes wins.

there's a meta post about vague pop-cons though (inspired by that challenge): meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/1947/8478

orlp

a while back I suggested a challenge where I'd add graphical output to the GOLF, allowing people to write graphical demos, and making a popularity contest of the coolest demo in under 4KiB

but it was met with resistance, as not having a clear winning condition

Martin Büttner

12:43 PM

more like, not a clear objective. I'm not sure if a challenge as open as tweetable maths would still be acceptable

orlp

Jul 18 at 19:58, by orlp

'output the most interesting image in a 1kB GOLF binary'

@MartinBüttner the following messages show resistance ^

Martin Büttner

yeah. it's likely to get closed as too broad these days.

orlp

=/

I think it would be a cool challenge

Martin Büttner

(I'm not gonna be one of the close voters though, so don't ask me.)

randomra

@orlp GOLF has merit in scoring algorithms precisely, I think in a pop-con it loses this advantage, and is basically the same as image in X language, Y bytes (still could be interesting this is just one viewpoint)

PhiNotPi

1:06 PM

Personally, I think that questions like Tweetable Maths should still be on topic here. A pretty insane amount of golfing went into several of those answers.

Geobits

1:23 PM

I haven't really played with GOLF, but intuitively, it seems there'd be a big difference between three 140-char functions in C and 4KiB of GOLF.

PhiNotPi

yeah if we had given tweetable maths a 4KiB limit, then it wouldn't really be much of a programming challenge. The size limit should be set low enough that almost every interesting submission barely fits.

Peter Taylor

1:54 PM

@MartinBüttner My empirical rule of thumb is that if the question is closed quickly enough then the site policy is followed, but it's open long enough to hit the HNQ then there will be enough people with reopen votes who think that coolness is reason enough to keep it open that it will never stay closed.

I don't think tweetable maths was ever acceptable as a matter of policy, but I don't think that the voter pool has changed significantly since then so if it were posted for the first time today I expect that the outcome would be the same.

New Main Posts

2:32 PM

0

Q: What day is it (on Flooptonia)?

You are a space tourist on your way to planet Flooptonia! The flight is going to take another 47,315 years, so to pass the time before you're cryogenically frozen you decide to write a program to help you understand the Flooptonian calendar. Here is the 208-day long Flooptonian calendar: Month ...

code-golf date

Nathan Merrill

hey, I've got an idea for a programming language. What if you could store code in a variable (like a function), but then be able to modify that code at a later point?

Peter Taylor

You can do that in a tonne of existing languages.

Nathan Merrill

examples?

Peter Taylor

C. JavaScript. GolfScript.

Nathan Merrill

I don't know C well enough, but I don't know how you modify a function in Javascript

Peter Taylor

2:44 PM

One option is to store the code as a string and execute it later with eval. Another option is to store a function, toString() it, parse the result, and then modify that... The second option is less portable.

Geobits

I think if you actually weigh the available languages, it's closer to a ton than a tonne.

Nathan Merrill

that's not really what I'm talking about

that's basically using eval()

Vioz-

I'm trying to understand. Do you mean something like this? f = x*x; f(3) -> 9; f *= x; f(3) -> 27

Nathan Merrill

a = function(){line1; line2; line3}

a.getLines()

would return an array of the three lines

Vioz-

Ah

Nathan Merrill

2:46 PM

a.setLine(2, code);

not sure how the syntax would actually look like

Geobits

That would take a pretty precise definition of "line".

Peter Taylor

That's easily doable in JS by extending the techniques I mentioned above.

Nathan Merrill

peter, but that actually creates a new function

Peter Taylor

LISP is also famous for storing its code as an abstract syntax tree and allowing you to modify it.

Nathan Merrill

@Geobits correct. to make something modifiable, you have to be able to piece it into attributes

it sounds like LISP is more what I'm looking for

Peter Taylor

2:48 PM

So? A mutable wrapper around an immutable object is a standard pattern in any language which has immutable objects.

Geobits

Why does it matter if it's internally mutable or not if the behavior is the same?

I've never had qualms about using a+="ed" or whatever to concat strings (in many languages at least). It's not the same string, but it doesn't matter 99% of the time.

Peter Taylor

(Just don't do it in a loop if strings are immutable. Use a StringBuilder or some-such)

Geobits

Well yea, just an example :)

Nathan Merrill

I could reference a mutable function to lots of places, and then modify it, and those changes would spread to everywhere else

rather than making a function that at runtime changes its nature (through if statements and such), you can make a function that is changed before it is run

Geobits

To change a function before it's run, I normally use a keyboard :P

Peter Taylor

2:53 PM

Self-modifying code

In computer science, self-modifying code is code that alters its own instructions while it is executing - usually to reduce the instruction path length and improve performance or simply to reduce otherwise repetitively similar code, thus simplifying maintenance. Self modification is an alternative to the method of "flag setting" and conditional program branching, used primarily to reduce the number of times a condition needs to be tested. The term is usually only applied to code where the self-modification is intentional, not in situations where code accidentally modifies itself due to an error...

Nathan Merrill

the example it lists was what I was trying to get at

function(){
   if (something){
      do x;
   } else{
      do y;
   }
}

vs

a = function(){
    do x;
}
 if (!something){
   a.statements = {do y;}
}

Geobits

a = something ? function(){do x;} : function(){do y;};

(works for simpler cases best, I'd imagine)

Nathan Merrill

b = a
if (!something){
    a.statements = {do y;}
}
b();

Geobits

eww ;)

Nathan Merrill

maybe the language would have a global function

the language continuously runs the function over and over

and to get code to run, you have to add it

that'd be even better :P

Geobits

3:12 PM

Hmm. Think of your code as a set of statements. After each is run, the interpreter jumps to a (psuedo)random one based on a supplied seed. So, to have it run "correctly", you need to know the correct seed (or find a collision).

Nathan Merrill

lol

Geobits

Apparently that's the only starworthy thing that's been said in the last ten hours or so. Odd.

Sp3000

Someone probably misclicked

Geobits

Either that or they like stickman-on-a-roller-coaster emoji.

Sp3000

Stupid backslashes

randomra

3:19 PM

@Sp3000 nice job on prelude-to-befunge! somehow I missed that happening

Sp3000

:/

PhiNotPi

use the sandbox: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/1

Sp3000

Ah thanks, forgot that was there

randomra

now I'm waiting for @PhiNotPi's tetris simulator Game of Life :)

Sp3000

@randomra Thanks :) I still need to find a day when I'm bothered to shrink everything down to 2 or 3 lines though

PhiNotPi

3:22 PM

My what? I didn't sign up for this.

randomra

@PhiNotPi weren't you thinking about that?

(I know it is extremely difficult)

PhiNotPi

I did actually have an idea, using about 4 extra layers of abstraction.

- Use GoL cells to create the big, customizable-rule meta-cells.
- Use sets of meta-cells to create giant cells that work like wireworld wires
- Use the wireworld wires to build a computer
- Program the computer to have tetris

Geobits

- Use tetris to implement GoL

randomra

what OS are you planning to use?

seriously though, the first step seems difficult to me, did you have some ideas/results on that?

PhiNotPi

The first step is this thing: conwaylife.com/wiki/OTCA_metapixel

randomra

3:32 PM

ahh, so it is done already

PhiNotPi

The metapixel can be programmed with any "life-like" rule (two states, 8 neighbors). The next hurdle is that wireworld does not fall into that category.

Which is why I need the next level of abstraction to create a functional "wire" with them. Thankfully, each metapixel can be programmed to have a different life-like rule.

randomra

I see, I would might use the existing GoL Turing machine, a tool which converts standard code to Turing machine code, and an output visualizer

New Meta Posts

4:38 PM

0

Q: Can we have "golfinated C++" please?

I see some of these questions and I'd really like to get C++ involved. However the language is (as it turns out!) quite verbose. So I propose that we be allowed to implicitly include a bunch of defines that shorten what we need into 1 character. For example: #define C class #define M int main(...

discussion

DeadChex

Isn't that basically a rehash of the language handicap post?

Sp3000

@Geobits Are you going to drop your standard "I golf in Java and I don't care" comment? :P

2

Nathan Merrill

lol

Geobits

4:58 PM

I figured this pretty much covered that:

The point of golfing in C++ isn't to beat Pyth or CJam, it's to be the shortest C++ it can be. — Geobits 4 mins ago

DeadChex

He..just doesn't get it..

Geobits

Now you've brought "defining a new language" into this - Grr! Can you lock a thread so only people who understand the topic can contribute? — Alec Teal 3 mins ago

... says the guy with zero answers in the [code-golf] tag?

DeadChex

Same for his "do you even golf" comment.. Unless he means real golf

New Main Posts

0

Q: Find a better way to generate a FizzBuzz lookup table

I've just come up with this ugly fella: function fb() { return [3=>($f="fizz"),6=>$f,12=>$f,5=>$b="buzz"),15=>$f.$b]+array_fill(0, 15, null); } function f($i) { return fb()[$i&15]?:$i; } echo join(PHP_EOL, array_map("f", range(1,100))); Can anybody come up with an even shorter way to generate...

code-golf

Peter Taylor

5:18 PM

@Geobits I am resisting the temptation to reply that the only way we can stop him from contributing to his own question is to delete it.

Geobits

I came so close to saying something like that... glad it's not just me.

Peter Taylor

But it's not stopping me from voting to close as a duplicate of a question about defining new languages with standard preludes.

Sp3000

It's hard for me to deliberately misspell centre like that, but I managed it. — Peter Taylor 11 hours ago

^^ Not sure that's a misspelling, actually :P

Geobits

I thought it was self-referential, but he really should have said "like this".

DeadChex

Well.. I don't think he can delete him self unless I delete too

randomra

5:22 PM

just to chime in the handicap talk: with the right header&footer any language is identical to Pyth

Geobits

header-> port to pyth(code)

Sp3000

6:04 PM

Must... beat... Pyth again (before isaac or someone posts a much better answer :P)

xnor

6:17 PM

too bad it has to be a full program

a recursive function would do nicely, i think

Sp3000

My thoughts exactly - also too bad that the last range starts from 141, which is just outside the range for bytes

xnor

i guess it's up to the OP, but i feel like in general we should more strongly encourage people, especially new users, to stick to the defaults

2

it's awkward to work a while on a submission only to realize that what you did is not allowed because the OP disallowed some format

Sp3000

Have you got something better? Or was that just when you were working on a function?

xnor

nope, i'm at the same byte count

Sp3000

Python 2 or 3?

xnor

6:26 PM

3

the compression seems worth the int()

Sp3000

I thought it would be, so I didn't even bother to try 2. Also print(*[n,x][-c:]) is pretty nice

xnor

yeah

Sp3000

Hmm well I'd like to see yours when you're done, to see if we can break the 150 barrier :)

Geobits

@xnor Alternatively, by the letter of the rules here once it's posted it doesn't belong solely to the OP any more. This would be bound to piss people off in most cases, though ;)

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Quit Whining and Quine code-golfquine Goal: Write a function or program that, given an integer n, will output a program. Description of Output Program: The output program needs to be a program that, when run, ... will output a program... that will output a program... etc, until the nth progra...

xnor

6:41 PM

@Sp3000 it's nothing special, just the same thing with zip

n=int(input())+1
for c,m in zip(b"\x16\x11\x18\x11\x01\x1c C","Qupu Blinkorp Paas Karpasus Floopdoor Dumaflop Lindilo Fwup".split()):c>=n>0and print(*[n,m][-c:]);n-=c

grovesNL

][-c: cute little character you've included there

Sp3000

I'm somewhat surprised that's the same bytecount

Hang on... no... that's 148 isn't it?

xnor

oh yeah :-)

bytecounting is hard

Sp3000

Half the reason I don't normally like to use unprintables :P

Will you be posting that or should I edit it in?

xnor

no, please do edit it in

Sp3000

6:51 PM

k :) thanks

Hmm unless there's something better than "...".split() that's looking pretty close to optimal...

xnor

here's a comparison of methods to iterate over 2 lists:

for x,y in zip(a,b):x,y
for x in a:y,*b=b;x,y       #Python 3
i=0 for x in a:x,b[i];i+=1

usually the second one would win, but here, b is fixed so the first avoids initializing it

Sp3000

Ah, I see :) that would go nicely in the length reference

I also considered exec(""*8) at one point, but that was far too long

xnor

i seem off on the bytes here

usually the second one wins by 3

but an assingnment costs 4

so zip should win by 1

but here it wins by 2?

Sp3000

Depends on what a is, if it can lose the preceding whitespace

xnor

oh, interesting

we could flip the role of the two lists

because the bytestring starts with b but the month-list starts with a quote

oh, the second one usually wins by 2, not 3, that fixes it

Sp3000

6:58 PM

Yeah, we could flip but -3 +4 puts it at 149 :)

But that's pretty neat, didn't think of flipping

xnor

what were you doing with exec, btw?

Geobits

Don't know python well, but isn't there a short way to split on capitals? You could get rid of seven spaces in the list if so, right?

Optimizer

I think no language would have a short way to do that

xnor

python doesn't have any way to split on a condition, or even a set of chars unfortunately

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