The Nineteenth Byte

New Posts

00:00

Nomination post for new Room Owners just dropped. You should nominate yourself now

6

emanresu A

@lyxal 11 pls

I'm not sure whether that was my internet, not-quite-UTC-midnight or both

DLosc

@rydwolf Want any writing feedback, or no?

@emanresuA Besides Husk (already mentioned by Unrelated), Darren Smith's earlier language Nibbles is also statically typed.

emanresu A

I'm aware yeah

DLosc

Figured you probably were, but wanted to make sure since you didn't mention it

@mousetail'he-him' I got irrationally angry once at someone claiming Studio Ghibli was better than Pixar

emanresu A

My focus was on the more extreme examples of removing structural redundancy partially making use of static typing, but I should probably mention static typing in general :p

Seggan

01:05

@NewPosts wait didnt we agree to do a merged nomination and voting post

emanresu A

After me/hyper/someone else pointed out that we don't really know the effects of posting time on voting and it's best not to have to deal with that, rydwolf agreed and asked someone to do the post with the two-stage format, which I did

Seggan

ah

emanresu A

@NewPosts Is it worth featureding this? on one hand, realistically it's only going to be people active here who get elected, on the other hand it's probably best to at least let everyone see it in the interest of fairness and raising awareness for the actual election bit

lyxal

I'd say feature it to make sure at least 10 people see the post :p

emanresu A

01:21

@NewPosts Good point. @hyper-neutrino would you mind featuring this

ATaco

Do we have rules for Randomness in Deterministic languages..?

Seems like the meta answer is, "You don't"

emanresu A

Not really no, if you want to propose some go ahead

it is kinda lacking and I've seen quite a few different ways to do this

e.g. PRNG seeded with input, random oracle function, some combination of the two

@emanresuA (as in create a meta question about randomness in deterministic languages)

ATaco

Maybe I should add some way to get system time? But that's so untrue to the language goal.

@emanresuA Already exists

17

Q: What are the standard requirements for answering a [random] challenge?

There are lots of of challenges involving randomness. However, not all languages have a built-in method for randomness. Some languages, like python or most golfing languages make it really easy. You can simply call some built in function that will return a pseudo-randomly generated number. There ...

emanresu A

Yeah, but that doesn't have a well-agreed-upon answer (+8/-4 and it lists multiple things which is discouraged anyway), and it's been six years - fine to draw attention to it again with a new post

hyper-neutrino

02:20

featured

emanresu A

02:38

thanks

Darren Smith

03:50

@UnrelatedString BTW I was thinking about this more and actually generating prefixes on list of lists with :l}k isn't doing any broadcasting. Both sides have 1 extra rank from what is needed for a take operation, so it just does a zip. The reason :l}k worked without the explicit R is because in this case the only the left arg had excess rank so the right hand side broadcasted. Strings in iogii are just vectors so no special behavior here. Sorry took me so long to realize that.

(on 1d list) for why :l}k worked

ATaco

04:47

@ATaco Hacky solution, Compile time randomness.

emanresu A

Under observability that's basically the same as normal randomness

mousetail 'he-him'

06:54

@ATaco Use the commit hash of the last version of the language as a random seed

The Empty String Photographer

07:30

Can a question become a community wiki?

mousetail 'he-him'

If a question is community wiki, the answers must also be

The Empty String Photographer

codegolf.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/69751

Can you all put Recommend Deletion on this review?

emanresu A

07:52

don't worry too much about this sort of thing, it'll disappear shortly and it doesn't cause any real harm

spam that went unnoticed by smokey or R/A stuff sure, anything else just leave a flag and it'll get dealt with

Themoonisacheese

Dannyu NDos

08:27

0

A: What if function application was right-associative?

Haskell, 203 bytes import Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP data T=L Char|T:!T p=chainl1(between(char '(')(char ')')p<++(L<$>get))(pure(:!)) s(L c)=[c] s(L c:!r)=c:s r s(l:!r)='(':s l++')':s r c t=do{(r,"")<-readP_to_S p t;s r} Try it online! I don't know how to golf this further, but practically spe...

Glad to post again, this time an answer.

RubenVerg

10:30

maybe i should make it so that in golf together you choose your language and it automatically counts how many bits the thing is?

though that could get complex if i want to support, like, Vyncode (and I do), where you can't just write a JS impl of it when creating the language

though maybe i should manage the languages myself anyways

unrelatedly, do any Whitespace answers use 2-bit encoding?

it's really complex to search for Whitespace answers when people use it as a normal word too

Themoonisacheese

@RubenVerg not that i'm aware, considering the scores oof whitespace answers

also first vyxal answer woo codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/276520/88192

3

emanresu A

Nice! You don't need the first four bytes

Themoonisacheese

i mena, i get why they're not needed semantically, as in, ideally this works out of the box, but it really doesn't

and i don't understand why

emanresu A

okay wtf is the implicit input doing there

it should not be doing that

Themoonisacheese

ok, if taking the key as an array of chars is allowed (pretty sure it is under defaults) then i can remove the first 2 bytes, but then how do it get the second input on the stack so it can be modified?

as i understand it, popping from the empty stack pops from the stack of inputs instead, but you can't push back to it? either way something fucky is going on

emanresu A

10:43

In theory, it should be popping the first input then the second input. In practice something messed up is going on

probably weirdness to do with implicit input in loops

(this is entirely a v3 bug by the way, the same thing works fine in v2)

Themoonisacheese

if i had a nickel for everytime i tried to use vyxal and accidentally found a v3 bug, i'd have 2 nickels, which isn't a lot but it's wierd that it's the same number of times i tried to use vyxal at all

@lyxal v3 🅱roke

lyxal

I've been watching the conversation :p

Themoonisacheese

oh

lyxal

not really sure where the bug is

Gleb

@Themoonisacheese lmao

Themoonisacheese

10:45

thought i'd ping you so you could find it in the morning down under

lyxal

I've got like 3 hours until bed time

plenty of time for bug finding

emanresu A

uh this isn't working

For some reason the key-string is getting pushed twice and I'm not sure how

Themoonisacheese

@emanresuA you're splitting "|" by "a|b|c|hello" no?

shouldn't you be doing the opposite?

nevermind i have the stupid

emanresu A

Yeah the same 5 bytes (n/ṫj works in vyxal 2

Themoonisacheese

what's the / doing in this?

i barely know v3, let alone v2

lyxal

10:55

exact same thing as ÷

Themoonisacheese

fair enough

i'm actually really proud of this, for identifying that i could do it in vyxal and then finding how to do it

lyxal

this seems to be a website bug

I ran it locally and it seems to work fine

Themoonisacheese

@Ginger the v3 tour could do with a better explanation of ( loops by the way, it's really unclear what it does from just the tour, which explains functions in a much more friendly way

emanresu A

Congrats on starting to learn a golflang :p

Themoonisacheese

i come from bash, for me python is a golflang

emanresu A

11:00

I wouldn't say bash is ungolfy, just unholy

Themoonisacheese

i'd say unhealthy even

lyxal

@Themoonisacheese which tour?

Themoonisacheese

github.com/Vyxal/Vyxal/blob/version-3/documentation/Tour.md

lyxal

that's the one I wrote :P

not ginger :p

Themoonisacheese

is ginger... not? involved? what

emanresu A

11:02

@Themoonisacheese Nah, bash actually makes you immune to cancer. Once you've stared $PATH down and emerged unscathed a few misbehaving cells are nothing

lyxal

ginger makes the website frontend and the bot

Themoonisacheese

i swear she was am i tripping

ah

lyxal

which part is unclear?

Themoonisacheese

it's wierd because i read it and didn't get it and now that i've used it it seems fine

i guess it's fine, especially if it's geared at v2 users

lyxal

the tour is for v3

Themoonisacheese

11:06

well that's what i used to learn from scratch :P

can you 11 chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/66565200#66565200 so ginger doesn't get a notif for nothing?

lyxal

it's too late

notification is already sent

even if deleted it's still there

but I'll make the notification worth while

@Ginger somehow, moving the input field has broken inputs

Themoonisacheese

lyxal

compare The output of a program running on an older version of theosussy

with running it on the latest version of tehsuaesus

and it should work online because it works as expected offline

(I tested it using the commad line)

also, compare (n+ in 3.4.6

to latest

it should not give 9

it should give 11, like running it offline does

@Themoonisacheese therefore, you only have 1 nickel

because it's not a v3 bug, it's a website bug :p

Themoonisacheese

foiled again!

please, sir, my nickels, it's all i have

lyxal

I will let you have a nickel of a different type for finding a website bug

but nothing more!

Themoonisacheese

11:19

well gee, thank you sir i never had a website nickel bug of me own, but i do have influenza, like my sister who has influenza also

(i don't know where this character is going)

Unrelated String

13:46

@emanresuA Yeah, if anything I feel like Bash is more golfy in spirit than Python (and probably also in practice, at least so long as coreutils are also involved)

it's just way more painful to program in too :P

yeah I'm pretty sure nobody does this
Same reason nobody uses 3-bit scoring for Brainfuck--no interpreter actually supports that encoding, and it's not going to be even remotely competitive anyways so it's kind of contrary to the spirit of the language

lyxal

@NewPosts ~~slightly tempted to self-nominate for RO just for the lols~~

I mean, tbf, the post never said existing ROs can't nominate

RubenVerg

@UnrelatedString kinda makes sense

Themoonisacheese

14:02

@UnrelatedString in my experience python is consistently more terse than bash+coreutils in answers here, unless talking about very specific tasks that bash was made for

Unrelated String

Interesting

Ginger

@Themoonisacheese not my problem :p (nice message id)

@lyxal ugh god

I'll take a look shortly

lyxal

Mfw th3ossuesas bug

Ginger

no clue what I did lol

but I did kind of have to redo all logic related to inputs to make groups work, so

lyxal

It's weird because normal implicit input works

But inside a structure it doesn't

There's like no reason for it to break because I don't suppose the input group changes actually mucked around with how the api is called

Ginger

14:08

I guarantee it's a logic issue with how I'm handling the inputs

just like with the inline string compression button, which appears to break if the input text contains a forward slash

lyxal

@Themoonisacheese only python 3.5 is consistently shorter

Ginger

...actually I dunno about that one lol

@lyxal I had to redo pretty much all of how inputs are represented internally for groups to work

and something probably got a bit borked in that reshuffling

lyxal

@Ginger I mean the scala js api

Ginger

ah

no, but whatever I'm passing to it is probably wrong :p

lyxal

So long as you're passing a newline joined string there shouldn't be anything wrong

Neil

17:08

CMC: compare two printable ascii strings, but compare all letters together (case sensitively) rather than allowing [\]^_and backquote to compare between upper and lower case, and compare all symbols together rather than allowing letters and digits to compare between them. if it helps, you can group characters into punctuation and space as well. extra brownie points for supporting all unicode.

The Empty String Photographer

17:31

Go to convert.net and type in "What is the name of your AI model?"

Unrelated String

@Neil Does this still require the same case-sensitive comparison between letters as in ASCII, where all uppercase letters compare less than all lowercase letter (rather than that only being true between corresponding letters)?

Neil

> (case sensitively)

RubenVerg

@Neil this sentence does not parse for me

hyper-neutrino

i should self-nominate since i'm technically not an RO /j

RubenVerg

17:47

wanted to nominate but then realized i have no pros

Seggan

you can make a freeform nomination like Ginger

RubenVerg

even if not structured like that, "where I'm already an RO of its main chatroom" is evidently a pro

Seggan

18:25

...

i just found one of my earliest programs

it was a game

which needed passwords

and i stored the passwords as binary. for encryption.

Unrelated String

18:36

genius

The Empty String Photographer

19:14

My RO self-nomination post has -7 score lol

ATaco

I don’t even know why folk are voting on it

emanresu A

Voting there has no impact, but people are still signalling their approval/disapproval

The Empty String Photographer

@hyper-neutrino You can just make yourself one

Can’t you?

The Empty String Photographer

19:39

A post I made a long time ago:

att

@RubenVerg thinking of it but i have no blurb

hyper-neutrino

20:06

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer i can but there would not really be much of a point

The Empty String Photographer

20:37

@NewPosts Important question: What if nobody meets the criteria for becoming an RO?

Seggan

nothing happens i presume

ATaco

22:03

I imagine we'll have a couple of people qualifying at least.

There are promising candidates in the mix

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