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12:41 AM
@mods Can we get an unfreeze for P4TC?
(oh looking at the date this may not have been the best time to ask...)
@lyxal lol
TBF SE has actually listened to the community at least once in the past few days in an important way
@cairdcoinheringaahing (CC this)
The vote buttons have changed on MM/child metas to something far more accessible, and I expect other sites may follow soon since the more general Q is still
progress, I guess
Thanks to my hacky userscript, the voting buttons on metas are invisible when I've pressed them
12:57 AM
The meta ones are fixed now
3 hours later…
4:12 AM
Q: What is the shortest regex for the month of January in a handful of the world's languages?

Samuel MuldoonWhat is the shortest regular expression equivilant to the following? ENERO|GENER|GENNAIO|IANUARI|IANUARII|IONAWR|JAANUARIL|JANAIRU|JANAR|JANNEWARIS|JANUAR|JANUARI|JANUARIE|JANUARO|JANUARY|JANUWALE|JANVIER|JANVYE|JENUWARI The shortest regex, in bytes, wins. If you are worried about what flavor of...

4:35 AM
@bobble That was a purposeful change, you can't really sign a letter before it was published
...yeah you can
You just sign it before it was made public :p
The mods felt it looked odd. It wasn't my decision
4:59 AM
@Seggan why do i actually kinda like the two layers of constness
@bobble A hard reload will fix that
holy shit regex refinement type
how does every one of these jokes land so differently
> This shouldn't affect how most object-oriented programmers work.
4 hours later…
9:09 AM
It's been a long time, isn't it.

I think of it as "support the strike to hopefully get SE to fix the situation soon". Of course there's collateral damage (on the striking moderators themselves too if things work out -- they plan to clean up the backlog later) but okay, up to you.
2 hours later…
10:58 AM
If you want to think of it this way: I can't handle the entire site's moderation load by myself. During the strike, mod actions on CGCC will decline, and less important flags will be left unhandled for a longer time than usual. But, there are some mod actions which, in my view, are necessary to continue but aren't "extreme" enough to warrant my fellow mods coming off strike to deal with them.
Believe me when I say that I've thought a lot about what I think is best for me to do here, and I've come to the conclusion that this is it
Especially considering a few bits of key information which, unfortunately, I cannot make public
and so, it begins
@cairdcoinheringaahing I should've asked: what happens if SE flatly refuses the mods' demands?
@Ginger On my side: I hand over my diamond
I'm not sure how other people will react, but I suspect in a similar fashion
I'm not sure how effective that'll be tho?
since like Rydwolf said there are plenty of people who are ready to fill that role
although maybe there aren't, and he mispredicted
time will tell I guess
@Ginger There might be, but that may change if SE refuses to discuss over the strike
I was assuming that said people wouldn't really care about SE's policies and just want ultimate power, but considering how the mod election process works those people are kinda unlikely to be elected
so yeah
11:10 AM
And, to be frank, I'm not sure I'd want to continue moderating with users who would see SE's current actions, then see them refuse to discuss changes, and still want to moderate for them
I sure hope that SE capitulates then, because the future for them sure looks bleak if they don't
I think I'm going to work on backing up the chat transcripts, just in case :p
i have an unrelated question: i’m adding DOM manip to my language’s standard library—how would you want the API to be in an ideal world? i assume it’s different from how the API is for javascript but i’m not sure
sorry to interrupt your important conversation
huh, mousetail's hosting the letter?
I also suspect that Smokey's going to shut down for good if they refuse
well, time to not vtc things
Technically, I've been on strike for most of the year
11:26 AM
@noodleman Having used both UIKit and SwiftUI, I can say that I definitely prefer the latter, but that’s largely because of things like that UIKit forces MVC while SwiftUI doesn’t, and that UIKit is imperative while SwiftUI is declarative. If by DOM you mean hooking into an existing HTML page rather than constructing new pages from scratch, I’m not sure.
@Ginger yet the 2020 election happened :p
It took two expression of interest rounds but it got there
And of course there were people who said "people shouldn't have nominated" yet people still nominated anyway
11:45 AM
@Bbrk24 i did indeed mean the latter; the language transpires to javascript
but i’ll take a look at SwiftUI—i bet there’s something i can get from that
you know it's serious when I remove the foka from my bio :b
I think this is actually the first time I've ever done that
@lyxal I'd say "that was before all this" but it wasn't really
"all this" was the straw that broke the back of the metaphorical camel
That's what people said last time
although last time SE rolled some things back quicker
well not really quicker it still took a while
12:00 PM
that's quite a pessimistic outlook
I'm somewhat cynical of corporations actually ever changing :p
although to be fair it's the most likely outcome
what I foresee happening is... nothing
most likely SE will do what they've done in the past and never provide a response
(well, they've kinda responded, but not directly to the requests in the strike)
there's a meta answer I saw that perfectly summarises what I mean
lemme find it rq
A: Statement from SO: June 5, 2023 Moderator Action

SPArcheonI am writing this not just a reply to this specific post, so please consider the following in the bigger scheme of things that happened in the last years. Premise Let's just start with a simple premise. I no longer trust your words when you say that you didn't expect this, when you say you are sa...

And I doubt SE will actually fully roll-back the AI measures
copilot/codewhisperer/bard has already taken a good share of users from StackOverflow
to stay relevant, SE needs something to compete with the AI hype
(hype being the key word)
I suspect SE will be releasing copilot but SO trained soon
if it were feasible for us to collectively pack our bags and move to Codidact, that's what I'd like to do
or at least something like Copilot Chat
12:04 PM
but it's not really
@lyxal oh, that's what this is really about isn't it
SE's panicking because they're losing users to AI
First, the CEO of SE expressed interest in making API cost more for LLMs. Then, the CEO of SE rolled back on the AI policy. Sounds to me like SE is a) making sure SE data is only used for training SE AI, b) showing shareholders that AI is indeed the future and "hey see we told you it's the way of the future - the initial 'harsh' response was temporary see" and c) getting ready to make its own product
and that's why they're like "AI is clearly good"
Q: Dear SE, please stop disparaging the moderators in the press

Mad Scientist - on strikeThe VP of Community for SE gave the following statement to the press: Stack Overflow ran an analysis and the ChatGPT detection tools that moderators were previously using have an alarmingly high rate of false positives. Usage of these tools correlated to a dramatic upswing in suspensions of user...

@Ginger allegedly they're down a few million views and roughly 1.5k questions a month
and there it is!
@emanresuA WHAT
are you SERIOUS
12:08 PM
I don't know what to do
it's understandable that people are switching to AI tools for coding questions given there's still a reputation of SO being not beginner friendly
and here I foolishly thought it couldn't possibly get worse!
I'd rather have the AI word-salad me into a solution (even with its intolerable hyperpositivity) than have a bad experience with having my question downvoted, vtc'd, and mocked
the way to solve that issue is not throwing your own AI at it!
12:11 PM
But my buzzwords...
@Ginger In the world of shareholders and corporate responsibility, the solution is doing what the cool kids are doing :p
my post about the voting fix userstyle has 35 upvotes and 0 downvotes
factor into the mix that staff have grown tired of dealing with meta and you've got yourself a community that doesn't like the company, and a company that wants to do things without the restriction of the community
so what's their solution?
ignore the community?
12:17 PM
oh no they've figured out the strike
I wonder how long it'll stay up
probably a good while
wouldn't surprise me
it's already been almost 10 minutes
12:34 PM
@lyxal that's kinda the whole point :P
And you'd be right except the name of the user is the n word :p
which despite the strike really isn't something you want to be seeing on the site
cc @cairdcoinheringaahing
12:46 PM
anyway I need some TypeScript help
specifically, I'm trying to use a module that exports both a class and a namespace named QrScanner, and my typechecker's yelling at me about it
import QrScanner from 'qr-scanner' should import the class, and in fact does when executed, but my typechecker's adamant that it's importing the namespace
(at least I think that's the issue)
apparently you're supposed to be able to do that, which means I'm doing something wrong
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

PeterPrint every possible string In this challenge, you're given the task to generate and print strings indefinitely. The strings must be printed on separate lines, and every finite string must (theoretically) be printed in finite time. Rules A string is a sequence of printable ASCII characters (0x20...

there’s a commonjs interop flag that might be messing with things? typescript is weird about imports
@Bbrk24 wouldn't surprise me, I had to mess with a few settings to get socket.io to work
lemme do some googling
VSCode says type QrScanner = /*unresolved*/ any when I hover it
in Par for the Course Comics and Film Co., 12 hours ago, by Rydwolf Programs
So did y'all ever decide if someone's drawing lyxal's frames for him?
in Par for the Course Comics and Film Co., 12 hours ago, by Ginger
you'd have to ask him if he's okay with it
in Par for the Course Comics and Film Co., 12 hours ago, by lyxal
@Ginger I would be okay with that
12:56 PM
Hehe when u don't read
then why'd you ping me?
I said why
i didn't read
side note: this was working fine until I changed the package.json to have "type": "module"
I did that because socket.io didn't work unless I did it
@Seggan oh I thought you meant I didn't read lol
1:15 PM
if I change the import to import * as QrScanner from 'qr-scanner', QrScanner becomes an object with a default property corresponding to the module... but in the browser it becomes the module itself and then yells at me for accessing the nonexistent default property
...or it could not do that???
what the hell
I guess if it works then it works
1:37 PM
'<a name="<bcd&quot;&quot;&amp;def"><abc</a>'
WTF why does it escape the " but not the &?
> This client's short name is ayers whore
yknow I should probably filter out profanity from the word list
> This client's short name is sonja balls
2:03 PM
anyone know of a Python lib that provides a collection of pairs?
I need a good way to relate two clients to each other
ideally a data structure that, when indexed with one client's ID, returns the other client's ID
What is a collection of pairs?
Do you mean a dict?
maybe that's not the name? I want something like this:
clients = something([clienta, clientb], [clientc, clientd], ...)
clients[clienta] # clientb
clients[clientb] # clienta
So a dict?
a dict is one-way
It doesn't have to be
2:05 PM
this isn't right either, because you have to use .inverse to get the other ones
I want to be able to do what I described above
Just merge the normal dict and it's inverse into one dict
that sounds like an incredibly good source of footguns
No it's super easy
and how do I keep them synchronized when new clients are added?
or when a client leaves?
the potential for subtle bugs is astounding
Delete both?
There are 3 functions
2:07 PM
my point is that I can do it like that, but I'm worried I'll screw it up
So only 3 possible bugs
so I'm asking if anyone's done it for me
fix them one by one then you are done
(As long as you don't need thread safety)
This is so easy to implement I don't think there would really be good libraries
I think what I want is called a bijective map, and I just found a good library for it
yup, it is
6 line library?
2:10 PM
yeah pretty much
it's actually 121 lines but close enough
3:02 PM
anyone care to ping seggan.rto.community for me?
just to make sure its a success
mm yes very funny
> ping: seggan.rto.community: Name or service not known
Want me to try pinging the IP?
3:13 PM
it's probably the warning i got in the console: it got a v6 while expecting a v4 ip
> WARNING: malformed IPv4 address (2600:6c5e:5d3f:4877:0:0:0:164a)
@lyxal Ugh. Yes, some of the striking mods are worried about the "really abusive" things on the network as well. (this one isn't even that bad I think.)
@Ginger well at least hope first. But they do seem to want to get the situation resolved. (somewhat.)
3:33 PM
for the record although I am on strike I am still willing to get rid of anything extremely abusive, so feel free to alert me to them. my goal is to stand in solidarity with the other mods and protest SE's actions, but the main impact to the company of the strike isn't coming from CGCC anyway so I would rather ensure y'all have a safe community over completely unmovingly sticking to this strike (but non-urgent stuff like closing off-topic or deleting non-answers I won't be doing of course)
and I believe SO mods have been doing the same even though SO is where the majority of the impact of the strike is felt, because we're trying to force SE to respond and show them they need to value us, not hurt our community members unnecessarily
@user can you try the rto domain again
@Seggan works
Q: I want to implement component reset password

harinderpali have made project and it has login page with api endpoints. now i want make component of reset password. but problem is that when i click reset passsword it navigate to blank page, so i need help regarding this import React, { useState } from "react"; import { Button, Form, Input, InputGroup } ...

@Ginger ty. just had to change the protocol from googledomains to dyndns2
it's time for the first test of STDW's linking system
cross your fingers
it did not work
crazy, right?
3:46 PM
@Seggan It works!
Time to ddos you
4:21 PM
Go ahead
I know you won't lol
can someone please tell me what happened with the mods "striking" (against SE?)? i cant find any context..
Q: Moderation Strike: Stack Overflow, Inc. cannot consistently ignore, mistreat, and malign its volunteers

Mithical Introduction As of today, June 5th, 2023, a large number of moderators, curators, contributors, and users from around Stack Overflow and the Stack Exchange network are initiating a general moderation strike. This strike is in protest of recent and upcoming changes to policy and the platform that...

And not just mods; a bunch of regular uses are refusing to vote, review, comment, etc
here is the letter and those who signed it: openletter.mousetail.nl
Over 800 people signed so far
Around 17% of all mods on the network, over 50% on SO, 3/4 on here
I think it's higher than 17, yesterday it was 16 and I can't be bothered with recounting
Jon Clements has a spreadsheet with a highly detailed breakdown if you join the discord
4:26 PM
@Seggan ... did SO inc. allow AI generated content on SE?
without consent of moderators..if i read properly
They banned removing it so effectively yes, though it's still technically against the rules
Unless you openly admit it's AI generated
4:48 PM
So you know how in comments on SO [mcve] turns into the link for MCVE. Is there anything like that on CGCC?
@mousetail where is that (on discord)
kindly answer the question dont do inappropriate comment — harinderpal 21 mins ago
umm... what?
@TheThonnu You mean [tag:mcve]?
@Seggan umm lol
5:08 PM
@Bbrk24 no literally [mcve] - it automatically turns it into [minimal reproducible example](https://stackoverflow.com/help/minimal-reproducible-example)
Try it in a comment
tbf that’s a lot less needed here, I feel like
maybe [sandbox] would help
That's the only one I can think of
@Seggan Link is on the letter
Yeah I know the discord is on it, but the spreadsheet?
5:20 PM
I think it's about a day out of date though
Yeah, Jo and WW are listed as unconfirmed
I got two STDW clients to link correctly!
this is very good
5:25 PM
If you DM john you can get a new version, he automatically generates one every hour but doesn't post it every time
Eh it's fine
@user wait are you really doing it because I can't ssh in anymore :q
5:44 PM
> This client's short name is sofas turds.
Q: I've been hacked

Joyce GWhy do you people make codes and such for other jerks to go around hacking/abusing innocent people? Total B.S!!! I have been hacked, and everytime I copy and paste whatever the stupid jerk did or what code bullshit he wrote, it always leads me back here or to github etc. It is nonsense for any ...

...wait what
> Why do you people make codes and such for other jerks to go around hacking/abusing innocent people? Total B.S!!! I have been hacked, and everytime I copy and paste whatever the stupid jerk did or what code bullshit he wrote, it always leads me back here or to github etc. It is nonsense for any of such code to be so freely given out or executed. You should be ashamed for what some of you are allowing!
guys have you been hacking other people
2 hours ago, by user
Time to ddos you
I'm half tempted to comment "it wasn't me it was user" on that
@Ginger note he's... executing some code? He's the one copy pasting code apparently
or maybe a userscript got him
5:47 PM
I think that's a spammer attracted by the conspicuous absence of moderation
i don't particularity like how the SOMU userscripts do two redirecting alerts when I view a transcript
@Ginger Is your pfp a...grayscale bi flag?
@NewPosts id downvote and flag but the strike
@RydwolfPrograms yes
because strike
5:51 PM
also in case you didn't see I got two STDW clients to link for the first time
More review tasks for me ig
Send The Damn Website
very proud of my accomplishments
5:53 PM
What lang's the back-end?
now I just need to get the text-sending bit working... :p
Wait lemme guess...Python
and you got it in one
How do the QR codes work?
Do they contain links to the website itself, or just encode the ID?
currently they just encode the short name; later I plan to have them be full links so you don't need to use the scanner on the site
one thing at a time
5:56 PM
@NewPosts For anyone here not striking, this needs 4 more close votes
alright, time for the first text-sending test
me when an unknown error occured
6:43 PM
@Seggan lol I wouldn't know how to DDOS people even if I turned evil
Are you able to ssh now?
@RydwolfPrograms Why not VTD? It's almost certainly a troll
You can't VTD until it's closed right?
And it's not spam, under SE's definition
So no red flagging
SE's definition of spam really ought to include nonsense like that
Not just self-promotion
@user I'm not convinced it's a troll. If it is a real person, we'd do well to respond compassionately to someone who's having a rough time (while, yes, still closing the question), and if it is a troll, well, we're still closing the question.
6:49 PM
I'm trying to write a comment that says "I'm sorry this happened to you" while not implying that we're responsible for hacking her computer. Why does "I'm sorry" have to mean both "that sucks" and "I did this and I was wrong"? :P
> In real life he's probably a sick twisted overgrown manboy living in his moms basement, who wouldn't know how to interact with a real WOMAN if she came up and bit him! Or a man who pretends to be a good loyal husband and father when in fact he's another part time faceless fool addicted to porn who uses code to hide his pathetic lifestyle! Got everyone fooled! ALMOST EVERYONE!
@DLosc While I think it's extremely unlikely this is someone who's genuinely somehow been hacked and is angry about it, I guess it doesn't hurt to give them the benefit of doubt -/(≧▽≦)\-
(pretend that was a shrug, I can't find the actual kaimoji)
¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯
6:52 PM
@DLosc I think "I'm sorry this happened to you" specifically doesn't imply you're responsible for what happened
@RydwolfPrograms it could be R/A though
@Bbrk24 Lenny shrug o.O
Maybe the comment, but the post is definitely not R/A
I have them aliased as &shrug; and &degdeg; on my phone
6:54 PM
I love Windows' emoji/kaimoji thing
Flashback to when Ginger and I got in a kaomoji battle
forgive me Father, for I have sinned
import * as bootstrap from 'bootstrap'
window.bootstrap = bootstrap // Evil global module loading hacks
Bit late for salvation now, don't you think?
if I don't do this then the utility module I'm using for toasts doesn't work
6:57 PM
If your toast UI is sluggish, put butter on your toast. It lubricates it.
Chocolate sprinkles optional.
there's probably a better way to indicate connection than a toast, especially because it looks weird on mobile
@user can't, neither through host name nor url
i even restarted the pi
i might have to reflash the sim smh
@RydwolfPrograms Unrelated, but it looks like Android no longer names their versions using the names of sweet stuff: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history
@user yeah, and it makes me very sad
I sent you 3 packets, was that enough to DOS you? :P
6:59 PM
@user Usually true, but when someone's angry and looking for someone to blame, they could read it that way.
Oh wait they still have internal codenames
@user did you send them around 11 est?
Probably, lemme check
Because spectrum apparently was blocking a bunch of requests around that time
Please tell me I didn't somehow crash your server by pinging you once
7:00 PM
No that's impossible
@Seggan No I just sent and received 3 packets (maybe 4)
If I can ssh into my pi, how can you crash it with a ping :P
(could ssh)
idk I don't understand the internets
@NewPosts One interesting thing about this is that they seem to have the code and Googled it to come to this website. So maybe this is a kid playing an online game, and someone told them to run some JS in the console?
Yeah, IDK exactly how they got here, but I'm similarly puzzled about all the "please help my code doesn't work" people.
@user well now I want to know what the code was
7:05 PM
I would guess a lot of them don't know much English, but enough to recognize the word "code"
You can still ask them for it if you're that curious
That would also explain how they get through 3+ screens yelling about not using CGCC for general questions
@RydwolfPrograms It's more about how they found this website, though. If you Google an issue, SO is one of the first websites to come up, and I never get CGCC unless I search for something that's specifically about code golf
True yeah
Maaaaaybe this?:
But that requires being on SE in the first place, which is confusing
7:07 PM
"Programming puzzle" might look very similar to "problem with code I'm writing" if you're relying on Google Translate or similar
(I like how our little tagline still hints at the name PPCG for us :p)
But then why would they be on SE in the first place to use that search bar?
No clue
Maybe they post on SO first, get told their question's off-topic, then search for other SE communities that are more appropriate?
7:08 PM
possibly yeah
Maybe we should interview the next person who posts off-topic stuff on our site :p
CMC: Make our SEO as bad as possible
Step 1: Keyword stuff with the word "moist" and nothing else
@RydwolfPrograms Honestly not a bad idea (not an actual interview, but a comment asking how they got here)
Would have to be worded carefully to avoid sounding rude/accusatory tho
Q: I am passive aggressive and want to insult my boss without him finding out

Christofer OhlssonIt's been a rough few months at work and I feel like I just want to scream right to my boss' face. I am, however, not one to directly confront people I have a problem with. I also don't want to lose my job. So here's an idea: I want to be able to insult him, without him ever finding out. And I r...

@user Every time I see "SEO," my brain insists that it's some cross between SE and CEO
7:11 PM
"Stack Exchange Officer" does sound pretty prestigious
Super Executive Officer - a CEO with superpowers
Stack Executive Optimization
@user sudo rollback the AI policy
Why don't we just require everyone to talk in lolcat
S-suite: a level of executives above C-suite
7:13 PM
ChatGPT answers will stick out like sore thumbs
Inb4 Snowpaw but lolcat
Wait how'd you get the ChatGPT picture to be a T?
> Quantum physics also haz "uncertainty principle." It sayz dat de more u try to measure certain thingz, liek position an' momentum of particlez, teh less u know bout 'em. It'z liek tryin' to sneak up on a kitteh while takin' a selfie, u either get da location or da blur.
This is brilliant
@user Bad internet :p
Makes you wonder, has someone somewhere on the internet tried explaining quantum physics this way before?
Because that's a surprisingly good analogy (afaict, idk quantum)
7:17 PM
It's actually shockingly good at explaining how Shor's algorithm works and its impacts
Normally or in lolspeak?
@DLosc don't tempt me
Because there's probably very good explanations of Shor's algorithm out there, just in normal speech
@Ginger Dew it
Snowpaw's getting old
@user lolspeak
7:19 PM
I'll do it later™
Just got it to write a cursed combination of a Trump campaign speech and a lecture on special relativity
also how dare you blaspheme against Snowy
@RydwolfPrograms Okay you absolutely need to post this (in TST if not here)
7:20 PM
@Ginger I'm sorry Ginger, but it happens to every living thing. You just gotta take a deep breath, wipe away your tears, and take Snowy to the vet
And then get a furry little lolkitty from the pet store
@user Gentlemen, we can rebuild them.
> "PhysicalCoreCount":24,"LogicalCoreCount":8
mfw CI
@Bbrk24 Java be like
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