The Nineteenth Byte

12:56 AM

0

Erasure Poetry answer-chaining code-challenge Given two strings \$A\$ and \$B\$, determine if string \$A\$ can be transformed into string \$B\$ by only removing characters from string \$A\$. However, you will not be "writing" programs to solve this challenge, so much as you will be finding them i...

emanresu A

2:31 AM

@mods: When you handle a comment flag, do you see other comments on the same post or just that comment?

Jo King

the queue has only that comment, but i go to the answer itself to do other cleanup

i wish i could edit silently, oof

emanresu A

Same :p

The homepage is so messed up that I kinda want to go all in and clean up everything while it's not making anything worse

Steffan

4:13 AM

why does 10k rep show edit tags here when you can just edit the question with the tags before 10k?

emanresu A

QoL

Aiden Chow

4:51 AM

vtc everyone: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/251588/…

New Posts

5:06 AM

-1

Q: Variables can't be seen at the debug pane of vscode

I have run python on spider before. I'm new to vscode, but my current project requires vscode to run. When I try to debug and run, I can't see the variables in the left pane. The screenshoot as below Please advise. Thank you.

code-golf

Aiden Chow

@Steffan dang how come they dont have that button for <10k

that would save me some clicks

lyxal

@Steffan because it's a quicker edit. You don't have to deal with editing the rest of the question

It's for easy retagging

Probably a SO focused feature

But a feature nonetheless

Also @Steffan

Jul 30, 2021 at 9:19, by lyxal

Some fun links: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/60206/question-about-advacado, https://codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5828/the-many-memes-of-ppcg and https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/tools

Now that you're able to view them

Aiden Chow

:\ i wanna view them, too bad im still far from 10k

lyxal

Well you can view two of them with the internet archive lol

The first two links are archived

The third is just a site stats overview thing no one ever really uses

Aiden Chow

how come the 2nd one is deleted?

many meme of ppcg, im curious to know what they are

lyxal

5:19 AM

13

Q: What happened to the memes page?

I was just browsing the Many Memes of Meta when the question was edited in to add, next to the PPCG entry: and recently deleted Not believing this, I clicked on the link, only to find out that it had. Why? Why was the post deleted? While it wasn't the best fit for a Meta question, it was ...

discussion deleted-questions

Apparently the memes were being done to death

People were apparently over-saturating chat with them to the point where they were unfunny

Jo King

isn't that just the natural life cycle of a meme

lyxal

Well yes, but from what I'm reading in the explanation post, they were too overdone in chat

CMQ: Now that we have better control over noise in chat, should there be a new memes meta post?

8

Jo King

no thank you

emanresu A

yes

Aiden Chow

yea sure why not lol, im curious what the meme are

Unrelated String

6:22 AM

i'd say no but it's a discussion worth having

lyxal

@UnrelatedString why not?

Razetime

@lyxal no

lyxal

@Razetime why not?

people say no but don't explain why

Razetime

i think it will still end up in the same way

there is a ppcg reddit which definitely could benefit more from memes

and it is a much better place to share them as compared to a meta question.

lyxal

it's not to share memes, it's to document them

Razetime

6:35 AM

reddit is still a better place

lyxal

for memes that are to do with what happens here?

Razetime

yes, it is r/ppcg and related to this place after all

lyxal

except it's less accessible than here because some people might not have reddit

or might not want to make a reddit account

Razetime

it's still open for viewing. it's not too much to ask, a ten minute mail is enough to make an account

lyxal

only problem with reddit is that documented memes aren't editable by everyone

plus it doesn't lend itself to a wiki-like Q&A format

caird coinheringaahing

7:44 AM

@lyxal Please no

Why do we need to make a list of what memes are currently active here?

Aiden Chow

i would be interested to know about cgcc memes, its kinda like that other post with a list of abbreviations/terms, very interesting and helpful to understand what yall r talking about

lyxal

8:05 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing same could be asked about the list of users meta post

To which the answer is documentation and preservation of site history

And so that the new wave of golfers can have a legacy of their own

This isn't 2017 where chat is unruly and full of noise - this is a time where chat is actively striving to stay on topic

The argument that a memes post is "more of a FAQ on how to be irritating than a historically significant question" isn't a problem anymore. Noise gets moved to the off topic room as soon as it becomes a problem

With the right disclaimers and usage guidelines, I think a memes post will work just fine

emanresu A

Also we must document Lyxal's fridge

Aiden Chow

what kinda memes r there anyways lol, i feel like idk any of them

mousetail

:(

lyxal

F

Aiden Chow

8:22 AM

F

emanresu A

G

pxeger

@lyxal Yes, why do we need the list of users meta post?

emanresu A

Every other language tag wiki: "For challenges related to <language>".
Vyxal tag wiki: *advertises*

lyxal

@emanresuA but it doesn't

Hell, I tried submitting an edit to do just that once and it got rejected for doing that

Unless you mean CRSE

In which case that's the whole reason we posted there :p

pxeger

I just edited the tag wiki to remove the first sentence (because it's not as important as the rest, don't come at me) but I accidentally removed the "U" from "Use" and now I can't edit it again

thanks @AidenChow

Aiden Chow

8:37 AM

@pxeger np :D

lyxal

@pxeger fair enough.

pxeger

"Vyxal is a stack-based golfing language with an emphasis on readability." was the first sentence, for reference

mousetail

I too find ¡²³¤€¼½¾‘ very readable

lyxal

Yeah, that doesn't need to be in the excerpt

@pxeger ^

@mousetail well duh that's your problem - that's not vyxal at all :p

emanresu A

It's technically in the SBCS

But yeah nah

@mousetail Find me any Vyxal program and I'll explain what it does

mousetail

8:40 AM

I don't doubt you can

lyxal

@emanresuA ³ isn't

mousetail

I just held alt and pressed every number key

emanresu A

@lyxal Was just about to correct you on that :p

pxeger

@mousetail interesting, I got ¹²³€½¾{[]}

lyxal

@emanresuA ‘ isn't either

mousetail

8:41 AM

¡²³¤€¼½¾‘’¥×

pxeger

before we go posting long strings of random characters, let's move to the sandbox

or would OTT be better

mousetail

Hmmm now I want to build a language that you can write by just holding down the alt key on a US-Inernational keyboard

lyxal

@pxeger Sandbox if it's just characters, OTT if it's discussing keyboard layouts

pxeger

@mousetail I believe Jelly was built kinda with that goal

emanresu A

@lyxal ~~Jelly~~

pxeger

8:42 AM

I don't think it was trying to use only the Alt key

emanresu A

Speaking of OTT:

pxeger

but US-International, yeah

emanresu A

18 hours ago, by mousetail

Petition to rename OTTNB to "byte 20 and up"

pxeger

I'd prefer "Bytes Twenty And Up"

mousetail

That would work just as well

lyxal

8:43 AM

Actually it's Bytes Twenty-one and up

chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/38249

20th already exists

mousetail

Twenty-one and up sounds better

round numbers are ugly

lyxal

Only problem is that it sounds like it's a NSFW room

Like it's age restricted

mousetail

True

Jo King

200th byte, no golfing allowed

mousetail

Golfing is pretty NSFW though

lyxal

8:45 AM

How about The Not-teenth Byte

mousetail

Not Safe for Production Code

@lyxal Would have the same acryonym

emanresu A

Aug 3, 2021 at 23:35, by caird coinheringaahing

Especially kinky Jelly coders use chains in their pornography :P

what the actual hell

Aug 3, 2021 at 23:25, 9 minutes total – 42 messages, 7 users, 12 stars

Bookmarked Aug 3, 2021 at 23:35 by lyxal

lyxal

@mousetail TN-tB

@emanresuA that was one of the conversations ever had

@lyxal even better - TN'tB

mousetail

The 17th trit

Niko

wth did i just read

lyxal

8:52 AM

It's titled what it is for a reason

Niko

I can understand the downvote on this question but I am kinda curious about the self-answer downvote.

emanresu A

It's pretty clear that they just posted the whole thing to show off

Niko

@emanresuA hmmm good point

mousetail

I do like the idea of not including variable names in code length

Since it's so easy to lose track of which is which

and you can reduce them all to a single character anyways and still preserve meaning

Niko

9:20 AM

@mousetail it is a cool idea, but it increases the difficulty of byte counting, and have many situation that may cause problem

mousetail

Yea it would be highly language specific

but we have similar flexible rules for IO methods

Niko

for example, when you want to do a=a+5 five times you can x=5 and then a=a+x five time, either causing weird definition in rule or making people doing less-golf code just to abuse this rule.

mousetail

You can already do that

Niko

there will be alot of extra, lengthy variables

mousetail

I don't see that as a problem

There is no advantage in making variables longer

you are just allowed to describe what the variable is for

emanresu A

9:25 AM

What about in langs where you can get the name of a variable somehow

mousetail

You shouldn't be allowed to do that. If the variable name matters at all you need to count it

Niko

imagine people having a variable that is 10^9 byte long

mousetail

only if you can reduce it to 1 byte without effecting the program can it be valid

So also if you have more than 82 variables it also doesn't count anymore

rest of the variables count for 2 bytes etc.

Jo King

it just seems to be complicated to implement that when you can just have one byte variables

Niko

There will be people that using unnecessary long variable name just to mess with others

Jo King

9:27 AM

it also doesn't really apply to every lang, e.g. perl with the sigils

emanresu A

^^^

Jo King

also @emanresuA i finally worked through most of your flags, that high flag counter was triggering me

mousetail

@Niko There is no reason to do this

emanresu A

@JoKing Lol

mousetail

It's just for longish programs it's easy to lose track of what you are doing

emanresu A

9:29 AM

@JoKing In a month it'll be someone else's problem

Niko

@mousetail Some people don't need reason to mess with others(or the community)

mousetail

Some people will but not enough to be a major problem I think

I don't think it's a good fit for every challenge but for problems where figuring out the shortest algorithm is more important I think it makes sense to use tokens as a aternate scoring mechanism

emanresu A

:/

Niko

You can just give out another non-golfed code after the counting competitive one to give other a clear view of the code while having the byte counting process simple

that's what most people do if they want others to appreciate their code

emanresu A

^

mousetail

9:35 AM

Yes

But it's annoying when editing

Since you need to update both versions

Niko

@mousetail one single post occupying the whole page is a big problem

mousetail

Not really

Ok how about a alternate solution: If you provide a mimifier you can post the code pre-mimification and score it after mimification. As long as both do the same

Niko

then you just post both version

that's what most people do

mousetail

Seems like a unnecessary step

emanresu A

^^^

mousetail

9:40 AM

I see people posting short solutions but then post TIO links to the expanded version

that's the wrong way around I think

emanresu A

If you mean Charcoal solutions, that's how the lang works

Niko

You can do meta question if you think it will work out, ask more people instead of having an argument with me - I am biased toward the old solution. Maybe more people approve the new version you suggested

emanresu A

Unlikely

mousetail

Again I don't think it should be a option for challege askers, not a default

emanresu A

Huh? Never stop avoiding triple negatives...

Niko

9:43 AM

@mousetail what i mean is that posting two section of code and a TIO link of golfed answer, so the ungolf answer is just for decoration or explanation.

mousetail

That's the wrong way around and makes it really hard to improve a answer

emanresu A

No? It's not hard to understand a solution, especially if people explain code

Niko

the different in both code are only commented explainations and (perhaps) variable names

so people can suggest on both golfing aspect and algorithm

the ungolf version are not counted for validity or score, only to let others understand

mousetail

People rarely explain code and it's hard to keep explanations up to date when trying to improve the code

The hard part of code golfing is the smart tricks people use, not how they name their variables

The variable naming and spacing etc. draw attention away from the actually smart parts of the solutions

Niko

in fact, i think the long variable is what make code harder to read, since other parts of the code are short

emanresu A

9:51 AM

^

mousetail

Strongly disagree

You don't need to make them super long but just using like a single word or a few letters or much much better than one letter

especially if you have many concepts that abbreviate to the same letter

Niko

some code only have 10ish bytes, having a single variable with name would possibly double their len

mousetail

Of course for super short programs

You wouldn't use these rules for those

I'm talking about the types of challenges where the optimal python answer is 500+ bytes

Or even 200+

You are of course free to still use a single letter if you believe it's more readable in your specific case

Niko

ok i am kinda tired stucking in this argument, I think you should go ask others around, they are more experienced then me in codegolfing and rule of the site

my opinion are not accurate sometime

mousetail

neither is mine

New Posts

10:08 AM

0

Q: Find the nth Mersenne Prime

A number is a Mersenne Prime if it is both prime and can be written in the form 2m-1, where m is a positive integer. For example: 7 is a Mersenne Prime because it is 23-1 11 is not a Mersenne Prime because it cannot be written as 2m-1 15 is not a Mersenne Prime because it is not prime The fir...