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00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 00:00

12:02 AM
Hey guys so I was looking around the HTML of SE Chat uisng dev tools and found something cool ROs can do. Apparently there's a kind of
RO-Script that exists that allows you to perform chat commands using JS-like syntax. Watch:
let TNB = network.sites["code golf"].rooms[240];
let lyxal = network.users[354515];
TNB.setName("The " + numToWord(lyxal.age++).uppercase() + "th Byte");
See? The name of this room is now the result of the RO-Script I ran.
Pretty cool ngl
 
:/
@lyxal I may have tried to run this
 
There's not even something called network in globals
 
@emanresuA let me guess you got an age already incremented try again in 365 days error?
 
Lol
 
@lyxal So, by running this over and over again, I can make you like 100 years old?
 
12:11 AM
No
 
Also, happy 20th (?) birthday!
@lyxal :(
 
You'd get an Age Already Incremented error
 
So if you can increment it every 365 days, one could make you age an extra year after 365 leap years have passed...
This is a serious vulnerability in SE chat. I'm surprised they haven't bothered fixing it yet
3
 
@user @lyxal Happy birthday!
 
12:15 AM
@emanresuA hehe thanks
 
Fig (not Seggan's fig, this Fig) is now rolling out an early-access closed alpha of Fig for Windows
Looks like 13 days ago, they started doing the same thing with Fig for Linux
 
12:37 AM
@user That's a scary image to be greeted with upon entering TNB
Happy birthday @lyxal!
 
@RadvylfPrograms :D
 
Happy date of birth, lyxal!
 
(「๑•₃•)「
 
In other news, I'm 69th on the all time rep leaderboard
Nice
@emanresuA lgtm
 
@lyxal Nice
 
@lyxal I don't know why but I can never parse that initialism in my head lol
"let's get that [noun]" is what I always end up with
with varying nouns
 
Silly, it stands for "like gaming, thinks me"
It's for when you think something is analogous to the euphoria of gaming and you want to convey your thoughts
 
lyxal: Gamer, Thonk Master
Slow bot?
Bot ded?
0
Q: Is it shuffled FizzBuzz?

emanresu AA twin of this. FizzBuzz is where a range of positive integers is taken, and numbers divisible by 3 are replaced with "Fizz", divisible by 5 with "Buzz" and divisible by 15 with "FizzBuzz". For example, FizzBuzz from 1 to 10 is 1, 2, Fizz, 4, Buzz, Fizz, 7, 8, Fizz, Buzz. Your challenge is to, gi...

 
12:59 AM
@NewPosts STATUS
 
RUNNING: [1] 1 1

[00:50:53] ws: wss://chat.sockets.stackexchange.com/events/240/3f6c7051a80a4814ba92ce311102ccd4?l=135686549
[00:50:53] opened: sandbox
[00:59:44] status: 240
 
Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Perform division for fuzzy numbers
 
huh, must've been during the ws restart
Pretty unlucky timing I guess
 
I'm magic
Honestly surprised this is the first time this has happened
 
I believe it's happened once or twice before
The auto-ws-restart happens every hour iIRC
 
1:03 AM
CMP: should my "increment variable at every access" operator in Fig start at 0 or 1?
 
Why not have both, like Pip?
 
both, or maybe consistent with indexing (if such a thing exists)
 
@emanresuA wait this was not an original idea?
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
1:04 AM
it should start at whatever the indexing is
It only costs a byte to change so don't add both IMO
 
hehe, i dont have much codepage space, remember?
tho i do have 2 or 3 unassigned chars
@RadvylfPrograms 0 then
 
CMQ: Plural of "radix"?
 
radices
 
1:37 AM
radixes or radices
@Seggan 1 with flags?
 
i have no flags
 
add flags
 
^
 
@Steffan Why?
Flags are, in many people's opinions, cheating
And they make languages more boring both to design and golf in
Golfing language design involves lots of hard choices, using a flag to get rid of those is a lazy and indecisive middle option that gives you an excuse not to innovate
I'm now more or less okay with flags from a scoring perspective, but I still consider actively choosing to add them to either be a boring design choice or a cringe attempt at being edgy in most cases
For languages that already have them, like Vyxal and Japt, there isn't any particular amount of harm, but I'd rather flags not become a standard part of the golflang dev's toolkit, otherwise we'll see "innovation" that gradually pushes closer and closer to MGS and farther from the intended goal of the flag rule, which was fairer scoring
(fairer mostly within languages, fairness across languages doesn't particularly matter for reasons I brought up yesterday)
 
1:58 AM
@RadvylfPrograms I see them as more of a "just-in-case" thing. Like when you make a design decision that is generally a good decision but you want to make sure you don't get caught out on those edge cases where it would have otherwise helped
 
yeah but like, if you always have that fallback, the effect is the same
 
Is that bad language design? Maybe. But when you feel like something should have been just a byte shorter flags give the satisfaction of that byte off
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

SteffanGet multi-dimensional indices in a list code-golf array Given a matrix of non-negative numbers (of arbitrary dimension) and a number, get all multi-dimensional indices of the number in that list. For example, let's say we have the list [[0,1,0],[1,0,0]] and the number 1. In the first list, we see...

 
2:46 AM
Why you should write a kernel in brainfuck:
1. It's very safe; all errors are caught at compile time
2. It's turing complete
3. The lack of complicated operations allows for easier optimization, and the tape is good for cache locality
4. It effortlessly works cross-platform
 
@RadvylfPrograms Kamila's done that :P
 
@Bubbler wow that is controversial
 
3:32 AM
Of course the anti-apple propaganda comes from a doctor
My man's fighting for job security
 
@Steffan good luck figuring out this: codeberg.org/ngn/k
@lyxal happy birthday!
 
😎
Dear gosh they have Rust but crypto - radixdlt.com/post/…
 
3:48 AM
@Bubbler thats pretty fun
Fillominordle 3x3 176 2/5
🟨🟩⬜ 🟩🟩🟩
🟨🟩⬜ 🟩🟩🟩
⬜⬜🟨 🟩🟩🟩
first attempt at doing this lol
3x3 a bit too easy i think
 
@lyxal why
 
Fillominordle 3x3 179 3/5
🟨⬜⬜ ⬜🟩⬜
⬜⬜⬜ ⬜⬜⬜
🟩⬜🟩 🟩⬜🟩

🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩
 
oh yeah what happened to that crypto platform that was spawning all of those sub-beginner-level haskell hnqs
 
@AidenChow what was your first guess? I can’t think of anything legal fitting that
 
@emanresuA whack, i just realized my system clock is 2 days behind
so im playing the game 2 days in the past lol
 
3:51 AM
Oh :p
 
wow lol
 
i dont check my computer time and date a lot ig lol
for reference my first guess is:
1 3 2
3 3 2
2 2 1
and the answer was:
3 3 1
1 3 4
4 4 4
 
Fillominordle 4x4 179 5/6
🟨🟨🟨⬜ ⬜⬜⬜⬜
🟨🟨🟨⬜ ⬜🟨⬜⬜
🟩🟨🟨⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩
⬜⬜⬜⬜ 🟩🟩🟨🟩

⬜⬜⬜⬜ 🟨🟩🟩🟨
⬜⬜⬜🟩 🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩 🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩 🟩🟩🟩🟩

🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩
 
@AidenChow i'm surprised that hasn't given you actual problems
 
Don't forget that there's a .+dle chatroom
 
4:00 AM
there is?
 
May 2 at 1:34, by lyxal
43 mins ago, by lyxal

 Wordle/Quordle/Octordle/Nerdle/Semant

For discussion about today's puzzles (spoilers!): nytimes.com/...
 
4:30 AM
@Deadcode Love your GitHub username, by the way ^_^
 
4:47 AM
???
 
@DLosc Thanks :D
 
5:11 AM
@UnrelatedString like how?
 
 
2 hours later…
6:42 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Command MasterFind the best character arrangement grid optimization fastest-code You want to write your English essay. However, all characters on your keyboard broke other than the arrow keys and the enter key. You want to find out how to place the characters so you can write your essay with the least movement...

 
6:56 AM
@RadvylfPrograms When you have to give "It's Turing-complete" as a reason to use a language, something's dearly wrong.
 
7:18 AM
0
Q: Print the ASCII Code page

loggeekGoal You have to print the ASCII printable characters' code page (0x20-0x7E). The output should look like this: !"#$%&'()*+,-./ 0123456789:;<=>? @ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO PQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_ `abcdefghijklmno pqrstuvwxyz{|}~ Rules The output should be exactly like shown above, but one trailing newline is O...

 
7:43 AM
0
A: Language nominations for the "Learn You a Lang for Great Good" chat event

pxegerCognate Cognate is a stack-based programming language designed to be readable as English. Uniquely among stack-based languages, it evaluates right-to-left. This means you can write code more naturally like English: Print "Hello, World!" Cognate allows you to write arbitrary words in between comm...

CMM: Should we have chat feeds for nominations for Language of the Month and Learn You a Lang?
 
@pxeger sure, i dont see anything wrong with it
will that be like a chat bot or what
 
@AidenChow It would use SE chat's built in RSS feed functionality, like we already have for bounties etc.
@NewPosts and @SandboxPosts, exceptionally, run as chat bots, because we want them to update instantly
whereas normal feeds only update roughly every 30 minutes
 
8:09 AM
CMM: The tag's description says "The solution can only contain the 95 printable ASCII characters", like . But most questions it's used on seem to be just challenges related to printable ASCII. Should we change the tag description?
 
@pxeger I haven't any objections
 
@pxeger I'd say yes (and I think restricted source challenges are already tagged too)
 
8:35 AM
Does anyone remember how to adjust the size of an embedded image?
In a SE post.
 
I don't remember exact details but you can check some of my Piet answers
 
u can adjust the image size??? never knew that
 
Yes but only by writing out <img> tags
Not in markdown
 
9:04 AM
@WheatWizard use <img width=x height=y src="url" alt="alt">
 
Nice.
 
@pxeger yes
Today my teacher asked me what the connotation of the word "dupe" is. I said, "negative". "Good, but why?" "Well, because a dupe might be closed by the community as a similar question that might already be answered." Teacher frowns. :P
 
actually took me a few seconds to remember the "swindle" meaning
 
9:21 AM
if someone wants to write a full tag wiki for it, please do
 
9:36 AM
@NewPosts I dislike this
 
9:50 AM
arghhh Objective-Java*#++--Script.NETnotation.sh is being annoying
 
 
1 hour later…
10:59 AM
@Seggan that’s a red flag right there
 
@UnrelatedString while I searched it up, to be fair
@Zionmyceliaadamancy why the name change? confused
Oh I'm silly
found out, sorry
but, seriously why STILL the santa hat...
 
LDW?
o/
 
I can't be the only one who always reads LDW as Latter Day Wsaints?
 
11:14 AM
... how
 
I read it as "Language Done Wick"
 
I just spammed “½ċṭ6 Ỵ» into jelly
 
by analogy with GDQ?
do you just read any initialism matching .D. like that?
 
@pxeger Yeah. Which is kind of ridiculous considering they share only one letter.
 
@NobodyNeedsNames please stop with the noise
 
11:16 AM
I think part of it is that "Quick" has a prominent /w/ sound.
 
@WheatWizard I was waiting for someone to comb through my 2016 answers in search of bounties, glad you're giving it a go!
 
24
Q: Find the capacity of 2D printed objects

SisyphusIn a fictional 2D world, a set of 2D printing instructions for an object can be represented by a list of integers as follows: 1 4 2 1 1 2 5 3 4 Each number represents the height of the object at that particular point. The above list translates to the following object when printed: # # ...

58
Q: Print the N-bonacci sequence

DJMcMayhemThis isn't very widely known, but what we call the Fibonacci sequence, AKA 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34... is actually called the Duonacci sequence. This is because to get the next number, you sum the previous 2 numbers. There is also the Tribonacci sequence, 1, 1, 1, 3, 5, 9, 17, 31, 57, 105, 1...

 
that was... quick
 
11:19 AM
@xnor I've tried doing that a few times, but have always given up after a while because I was unable to find any golfs :þ
(perhaps because I was mainly looking at the Python ones, which you're most expert in)
 
@xnor They are a weird mix of obvious tiny saves which I don't feel are worth duplicating an answer over and some really well golfed stuff. It's not all that easy.
 
What does it mean if a post is featured?
 
it means it has a bounty
 
Ok bountied would make more sense
 
come to think of it, I don't know if I've ever seen "Featured" used to describe bountied posts anywhere except in that RSS feed
 
11:22 AM
Especially since featured posts on meta mean something completely different
 
can you ever bounty a meta question?
 
I don't think so, but mods can feature it so it's listed on the sidebar in main
 
Hmm, I was going to say yes, but it looks like you can't actually
you can on MM though
 
I tried on meta.stackoverflow.com and couldn't, but I guess it works for any even level of meta
 
meta.stackexchange.com basically acts like a main site, not a meta
 
11:27 AM
Except it doesn't have it's own meta
 
there's also area 51
 
well of course
is it just that you can;t bounty or is it unorthodox or what
 
We need meta.meta.stackexchange.com though
 
meta.meta is meta
there's the tag
 
no, we need meta.meta.meta.stackexchange.com
 
11:29 AM
We need to go deeper
 
> Over the winter, he swaps his Stack Exchange hat for a Santa hat.
what's the difference @Zionmyceliaadamancy
o/, see you at ldw
 
11:51 AM
@NobodyNeedsNames A bounty requires reputation and meta has no reputation.
 
@NobodyNeedsNames it's winter in australia, to be fair
 
That's why it does exist on main Meta, since that's a site of its own with its own reputation.
 
@pxeger true
 
@pxeger true, i think he should specify winter in n hemisphere
 
@lyxal how is the climate there?
 
11:56 AM
winter
very winter
 
or to be less "racism" (tho i think it doesn't qualify) dec-jan
 
@lyxal a short google search yields no adjectival meaning of winter.
 
@ais523 But that would look ugly :(
 
> meta has no reputation really?
 
11:58 AM
Main rep counts as meta rep
you can't gain or lose rep on meta
 
i still want to know what's the difference between the two hats
@mousetail oh ok
The second LDW in TNB history starts NOW!!!
Whoops, I was seven seconds late. Or was it eight seconds? Somewhere in between, surely.
@Seggan good timing
 
@RadvylfPrograms exactly my opinion
 
Hello everyone and welcome to the second-ever Language Design Workshop. The general premise is that y'all can post work you've done or are doing on esolangs and people will give feedback. In short, y'all'll get to show off our languages and their features, chat about them, get feedback, try out WIP languages, and, hopefully get ideas over the next 24 hours.
9
 
In TNB history I think
 
ninja'ed
 
12:02 PM
@lyxal VTC lol
 
@NobodyNeedsNames nah, in history for sure
 
I unpinned yours @Seggan and added @lyxal's because it contains more blurb. Hope you don't mind
 
at least lyxal's has detail though
 
@pxeger nah i dont
 
12:03 PM
@Seggan IMO some flags (like for testing stuff) are useful
 
ive removed mine
 
I figured I'd use the blurb from last time for consistency
 
@mathcat that could be just subcommands built into the interpreter/compiler
 
@ais523 I think ¹ is worth having because it makes debugging much easier. I also often wish Jelly had support for normal brackets because they're so much easier to read and type than $ƊƲ¥ɗʋ (when you've finished, you can convert it to those forms for golfiness, of course)
 
which is exactly what ive done with Fig
 
12:04 PM
I was thinking about a language where the only flow-control commands are SKIP NEXT COMMAND IF..., GOTO NEXT OF THIS COMMAND, and GOTO LAST OF THIS COMMAND (as in the one before it).
 
Anyway, I gotta go, but since last LDW Fig has gotten a bit of an impl, so go try it out!
 
i prefer flags that only manipulate the format of the input/output, which is basically already allowed by default cgcc rules
 
You could remove the identity function and brackets from the codepage too
 
@pxeger supporting normal brackets would use codepage space and still need some way to assign adicity but it also wouldn't be hard to assign adicity and we are talking about a codepage where ( has no assigned functionality
 
@NobodyNeedsNames are you saying that the jumps only jump a single command?
 
12:06 PM
I'm thinking about huffman encoding my code... what do you think
@JoKing yes
 
@UnrelatedString Now that it's LDW, it's probably a good time to introduce the fact that I'm working on a Jelly "rewrite"
 
and it will have ()[]{} to group nilads, monads, dyads, respectively
actually I guess I only need ([{ since the closing brackets can be disambiguated
 
will it still be clled "jelly"?
 
@pxeger aeguably, "non TC" could make more sense as a "selling point" to specify, like with regex
 
12:08 PM
So lots of people work on languages but what about golfing libraries? I think I might want to develop some golfing macros for rust
 
maybe they can be modifiers or something
 
interesting
 
@Seggan I don't think Vyxals fEḢ5bBT can be implemented as functions
 
golfing libraries is something i never thought of
@mathcat did you click the wrong message :P
@mousetail i should do that for Java
 
da what
 
12:09 PM
@mousetail One of my other many projects was gonna be a golfing library for Zsh. It never worked out, mainly because Zsh is such an unendingly inconsistent language that it's hard to think of generalisable library functions (beyond basic aliases for things like echo)
 
Java doesn't have macros though right?
 
no but you can just do fuctions
@mathcat my "interesting" was to the message above yours
 
true
 
@Seggan I just did [at]Seggan but it might be my WIFI
 
I'm thinking about huffman encoding my code... what do you think
is it efficient? good?
 
12:13 PM
@mousetail i.e. interface M{static void main(String[]a){p("Hello, World!");}}, which replaces System.out.println with p
 
variable width characters would be the next big step in golfing languages, but make them impossible to write (or read) manually so I don't know if they would be a good thing
@Seggan You could definitely save a lot of bytes that way. I'd say it's worthwhile. You can't fundamentally change the language like you can do with macros though
 
@mousetail One big advantage that the traditional codepages of golfing languages have over more interesting compressed formats is that you can immediately visually inspect byte length based on how wide the code is
 
@mousetail imo fractional byte langs, which seem to be the first of the fourth generation, are still just getting off the ground
and how would variable width make anything shorter?
not just that, how would they work?
 
I was gonna make an ASCII-compatible translation format for my language's codepage, but then some things would consist of 2 characters but still be encoded as 1 byte, which makes them confusing
 
huffman
sort of, at least
 
12:17 PM
@mousetail What exactly do you mean by "variable width"? They get encoded as different numbers of bytes in different circumstances?
 
idk why, but this is infuriating
 
@Seggan more common characters can be shorter at the cost of making rare characters longer
overall thus the bytes per character is decreased
 
like what digraphs already do?
 
^
 
Yes, except every character can have a different number of bits
 
12:18 PM
just in a different way
with the same results i think
 
so it's more granular
 
Ah, I see
 
unless you really want it π bytes or something
character is π
 
0
Q: Write a near crystalline program

Wheat WizardA pristine program is a program is a program that does not have any errors itself but will error if you modify it by removing any contiguous substring other than the entire program. A crystalline program is sort of the opposite. It is a program which doesn't have any errors itself but will error ...

 
12:29 PM
@mousetail i had ideas for this before i knew what i was doing. its a shame that defining the shape of a tree isnt super useful because you can totally do that with a single binary number with an unambiguous ending point :P
the thoguht was to have the number of bits to grab for the next "character" be completely context dependent
so like if you used some command relating to lists that needed to know if you were doing 0 indexed or 1 indexed, the next bit would determine that, and any other args could go right after the bit :P
 
I worked with a type of compressed assembly for a bit that used that type of encoding, but also there where instructions that modified the tree itself. Impossible to write by hand
 
oh absolutely XD
what do we think of using program pointer (term?) to determine part of what a command does :P
i.e. X does <thing 1> when in even positions, <thing 2> in odd positions
 
interesting
 
what do you mean by "find for each element"?
 
as in "indexes of items in a in b"?
btw I've released Fig 0.2.0 for yall to play around with
also, I'ma be gone till Monday, so don't summon me
or else
 
Dec 3, 2021 at 11:16, by PyGamer0
iⱮ in jelly
 
@Seggan I summon you
 
well im not gone yet
 
12:53 PM
I will continue to do so until Monday
 
@lyxal anything else?
 
looks gaming, thinks me
 
ok cooll
 
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