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12:00 AM
oh yeah that
 
what would input be considered to be in normal command blocks?
 
Check the default I/O rules, and meta
 
@Adám Vyxal, 2 bytes: Ċ↑ (I think)
 
I'm actually not sure what the I/O defaults are for Minecraft
 
12:02 AM
If there's none, I think you have to clarify if it's allowed with the challenge author, right?
 
Or ask on meta
 
I'm pretty sure there's an I/O for Minecraft post, though
 
If the input is yes/no, a lever works
 
12:02 AM
You could use a /trigger for a 32-bit int, if you're using commands
 
finally used the nondecreasing guarantee
 
I suppose you could use a /data modify storage for arrays or NBT tags
 
kind of forgot about the run length encode builtin
 
I think I've seen /scoreboard be used as input before
 
12:04 AM
ngl how this ever got 7 upvotes astounds me codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/7543/99035
"encode your data in binary levers"
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing /trigger and /scoreboard are basically the same
/trigger is just a fancier way of doing it, /scoreboard's probably better since it's golfier
 
ok that entire post is pretty much useless since it was created 6 years ago
 
Good point
Most of the useful stuff with commands is from 1.12 or 1.15
 
see, id make a meta post for this server, but i feel like no one would know what it is lol
 
you can link to it
 
12:06 AM
the server ip?
 
i have no idea what project flashpoint is but that didn't stop someone from writing like ten answers in its scripting language
 
flashpoint for codegolf? lol
assuming this isnt against advertising rules: mcdiamondfire.com
if you want to code in it, right click the book in slot 1, and then create a new basic plot
(and then do /code)
 
@Adám Scala, naïve answer: a=>a.map(x=>x->a.count(x.==))maxBy(_._2)
I 👒 🍜
I hate 📱
No, I hate phones
 
@UnrelatedString I once saw a video of someone implementing a rudimentary computer in KSP.
 
12:14 AM
You can make somewhat complicated stuff in Mario Maker I think, but there's a limit to the amount of space and items you can have so anything remotely close to TC is almost certainly impossible
 
in diamondfire i would say it has ample space to be considered tc
so that helps its case
 
Huh, we don't have a single SMM/SMM2 answer on this site. I might try one later.
 
adding things might be a start
 
Something really trivial like adding 4-bit numbers or deciding if a unary number is even or odd shouldn't be too hard
 
there is such a thing as space bounded Turing machines
 
12:18 AM
@JoKing those require unbounded numbers though, right?
 
The problem is that storing information is going to be difficult, so the registers can't be very large at all, and things despawn pretty close to mario, so some really weird stuff would be necessary in order to keep state while moving around to different parts to load them
 
@Underslash that wouldn't really be bounded though
 
@RedwolfPrograms "I'd be able to save 20 bytes if Koopa Troopers didn't keep despawning" :P
 
Oh yeah, scoring and I/O are going to be tough too
 
@JoKing oh
hmm
i thought turing machines needed to be at least at some level unbounded
also, how do you assign in lambdas in python?
 
12:22 AM
space-bounded TM ≠ universal TM
 
Anyone here got 10k+ rep on SO and is willing to help me with something?
 
@Underslash put them in a variable, no?
 
@lyxal yeah but how
 
@Underslash you don't
 
f = lambda args: whatever
 
12:25 AM
well you can use :=
@lyxal assign in a lambda, not assign to a lambda
 
Only in 3.8 or later
 
@rak1507 thats the one
what is the exact syntax for that?
 
@rak1507 Oh right I see
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing @RedwolfPrograms I asked about 05abi1e here a while back and people responded along those lines, I swear!
Prob not in those words, though
 
12:26 AM
but do you separate by commas?
 
@AviFS 05AB1E has a legacy version, but I wouldn't consider it a legacy language :P
 
But something like, that used to be more popular but now it's almost always outgolfed by Jelly and there aren't any active users on CGCC rn
@cairdcoinheringaahing Right, didn't mean the legacy version. I meant along the lines of ^
 
Makonede is pretty active with it, so are Kevin and ovs
 
Well, that's what I was referring to!
 
But it's definitely dying off in terms of activity
Not sure I'd call it legacy just yet tho :P
 
12:34 AM
@Underslash i'm not really sure what you mean by this, but you can't really do complex assignment with :=, like a,b:=1,2
 
@Bubbler ⍥ That's a thing you can dooo?
(The search, I mean)
 
"beats all other answers" is something Makonede is fond of including in their answers
It's not something that SE search supports :P
 
Oh, haha, no wonder
 
It's definitely a problem of perception. Essentially every challenge gets a Jelly answer because there are 3 people trying to FGITW it (me, Unrelated, hyper), at least 3 more who just try to answer (xigoi, Jonathan, Lynn) and there's Nick Kennedy who insists that every challenge must have a Jelly answer, no matter how difficult it seems :P
Compared to that, very few languages will look active, simply because they normally only have 3/4 users max
 
12:44 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Also me trying to abuse base conversion in every challenge :P
 
@Bubbler Ah yes, how could I forget about you and your bases :P
 
Really, Jelly has recently seen a weird surge in activity
It even feels like we get more Jelly than Python or JS :P
 
1:00 AM
Sandbox posts last active a week ago: How effective is compression?, Two inverse quines
 
Here's a fun fact: the site experienced a massive activity boom as a result of the first code trolling question, followed 4 days later by the 2014 new year's question. Dennis joined the site on 29th Dec 2013, so it's very likely that he joined as a result of seeing the code trolling one
 
1:39 AM
@lyxal That's what I said too, but they just told me burning people's houses is frowned upon
 
CMQ: Thoughts on Shog's view of this site?
I kind of agree with what he says in that answer, but whenever I read it, I always sort of disagree with how he describes what this site is for
I guess it always read to me as tho he was saying "This is [the site where all the fun goes to], the rules don't matter there"
 
This is the place for fun stuff, but we obviously still need rules here
Unregulated fun stuff is what Reddit is for
Even Reddit has moderation, but the mods there are often useless
Low quality posts. Ahh, just an other thing that has to be discussed on an other site - Code Golf Meta. Do you know the average quality of a typical codegolf answer? Most of the answers in that so called "troll" questions have a better quality: they are not code-only answers. — Johannes Kuhn Dec 29 '13 at 0:04
Another reminder of how different we are from SO. This user thinks our answers are low quality because they're mostly code
They're not entirely wrong: explanations are great, but valuing code-trolling answers more than good, clever, abusive code golf answers is weird
 
lol
Were answers just lower quality back then, then?
 
Lots of people didn't bother to put explanations
 
 
2 hours later…
4:09 AM
I've realized I have no idea what I'm doing with setting up a server.
 
that sounds about right
 
I swear it's related, though! It's an interpreter thing I'm doing
And no, it's not like TIO, but for the purposes of this... yes it is like TIO
 
I did it the hard way and bought a physical dedicated server
 
@AviFS I wouldn't have any idea either
 
That doesn't sound like a terrible idea at this point.
 
4:10 AM
hence why your statement sounds accurate
 
Maybe someone can help me with the language though?
Then at least I know what to look up for and find tutorials for
 
Are you going through DO/AWS/Azure/GCP?
 
So at this point, I'll pretend that I am setting up TIO
@RedwolfPrograms Not sure what I want, but I have AWS, DO & Netlify set up
AWS & Netlify are free for the amount I think I'll use
But DO supports TIO and I have $100 credit due to the TIO ref link
 
What part do you need help setting up?
 
I keep going back and forth between setting up a web server, and a linux server to ssh into
And I'm realizing I don't know the difference
 
4:13 AM
You want a linux server
 
I'm skeptical of setting it up through a web server all the way though
Oh, phew! Great!!
That's what I was suppppperrrrr hoping
Great! Awesome! Thanks a bunch!
So I do have that...
Now I just have to access it via my web thing?
 
You'll want to install a web server onto that linux server probably, my recommendation is nginx
 
Ah, yeah I was going to ask about that
Since it supports ssh but not https
Thanks, maybe I'm starting to get it then
So the web server is just the software that allows you to interface with a browser easily?
I don't really even get https to be honest
 
Well no, it's what makes the website work
 
But I know that ssh and https are two different protocols for communicating info
I think
 
4:16 AM
SSH is for you to do maintenance
HTTPS is the website itself
 
@RedwolfPrograms Okay, I guess I don't get it, but wait
I'm hoping I can still use GH pages for the front-end
And just use this for the backend
But it could be an XY problem, so maybe GH pages isn't relevant
 
Okay, so you'll still want a web server installed, and you can make POST requests to that
 
It's just been my workflow up until now
 
But if you have a web server anyway, using GH pages isn't necessary
 
And I like that it feels very open source
@RedwolfPrograms Right. My image though had somehow been of a webapp on GH pages with an api to send requests to this server
Eg. I can already use tio-api on gh pages to run stuff
 
4:18 AM
That could work too
 
I mean, I guess not if there are better ways to do it
Lots of FOSS software does require a server to run
Eg. TIO
But let's stick with the GH pages for now, then
 
You might have to buy a domain name to put the API on
 
Is the next step still to set up a webserver?
(nginx)
 
Most likely, yeah. I don't know what you start off with when you get a cloud server thingy.
 
Awesome, thanks!
I might be able to figure it out after this
Is there anything basic to tell me after that
Or any keywords for google?
 
4:21 AM
It really depends on what you're going to want to do with this, what language you're going to use for the back-end, etc.
 
Oh no, I have to choose a language?
 
For your API, I mean
 
I can't just install a bunch of cl interpreters on the server and then call them from JS?
 
No, that won't work.
 
I really don't understand this as well as I hoped, haha
But thanks a bunch, I'm already way in a better direction
I can try again with the new info and keep trekking forth
 
4:24 AM
Are you trying to make an interpreter for a specific language, or a more general online interpreter?
 
Think TIO for now!
So at this point, I'm just hoping to git clone a bunch of the popular esolang interpreters right now
 
Uh oh, that's not going to be as simple as you think :p
 
Oh no!
 
There's lots of sandboxing stuff you'll need to do, for both security and usability reasons
 
But I git clone, and then there must be something where I can run stuff via command line
And then send stdin/stdout back
@RedwolfPrograms Oh nooooo
I forgot ; (
There must be an easy way to make a new sandbox with restricted user privileges every time I call a command line function though, no?
 
4:27 AM
I wouldn't say easy, but it's possible
You'll also want stuff like the ability to terminate infinite loops
Like TIO's timeout
 
This is getting to be a big project very quickly
I wonder if I can copy some of TIO's code easily for that
 
I've been wanting to make an online interpreter as well, maybe we could team up on the back-end to save some effort
 
Maybe rewriting everything in JS was easier...
 
At that point you should git clone TIO itself and try running it and see what it really does
 
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, haha
@RedwolfPrograms No way, really?
What's yours for?
Is it different from ATO/TIO?
 
4:29 AM
Mine's just a general TIO-like site
It'll have some more advanced features though
 
Oh? Like what!
 
Like the ability to suggest and add new languages, potentially without me
 
Yeah, I'd be suppperrrr down to team up on the back-end
 
That way it's maintainable if I ever stopped working on it
 
@RedwolfPrograms Ooh, that's a really neat idea
I'm actually hoping to do something similar
I wonder if pxeger will want to join for ATO, or if he's already happy with his model
 
4:30 AM
Theirs seems to work fine
It's probably easier to stick with a working one than redesign a new one :p
@RedwolfPrograms I also want to abstract away the STDIN/STDOUT thing, and just have "code", "input", and "output"
 
Right! But stderr is also important since some use that
 
With TIO, for example, it's sometimes tough to know whether you should use input or arguments
 
8 hours ago, by Aaron Miller
lol @Ausername I just realized how messy you are :p
 
@AviFS Well, that'll be a special case :p
 
I just realised how much I use that phrase.
 
4:31 AM
@RedwolfPrograms Ah, I see, that's a good point
@Ausername Haha, nice, I'm sure I have a mil of those
 
DSO's system has dynamic loading, potentially from other sources, so existing languages can be updated without me.
 
Actually, yeah...
Haha and mil are both in that category
 
Yeah
 
Actually, I only have three mils which I find really weird. But almost all the hahas in this room are mine when I'm active, which is pretty impressive
 
I'm going to integrate RTO with CGCC accounts, so your CGCC rep will unlock privileges on RTO
 
4:35 AM
Oh yeah, that's such a cool idea!
 
Like increased max run time (maybe two minutes), and for 10k+ users and moderators, the ability to update and add languages
 
The other thing I want for mine is to enable seeing the current memory state at any given point
I guess it'll be sort of like abstracting the -d flag
 
That sounds like it could be really dangerous if you do it wrong
 
Haha, I don't know about doing it for any complicated langs
I mean just the state of a stack-based lang or bf, for instance
 
Oh, if you mean modifying their interpreters to show the stack or tape, that's fine. I thought you meant letting users see the actual system memory at will :p
 
4:36 AM
Oh no, haha
But I mean, it should be easy to see the state on the user-end
And non state-based stuff too, like to see each step of a lambda reduction
Debugging things like that should be abstracted and easy to access
 
My most complicated lang on DSO is Fishing, and I'm trying to figure out permalinking :p
 
Oh, that part is super easy!
 
Not if you want actually small links
 
window...hash()
or something
@Ausername Oh yeah, I was adding that to tio-api for a while
 
@RedwolfPrograms What languages are you planning to put on RTO?
 
4:39 AM
I haven't documented it because I never polished it
 
The first three languages I add for RTO will almost certainly be JS, Python, and Jelly
It's going to be a general purpose online interpreter
 
But it uses tio's compression stuff to generate good permalinks
@Ausername If you send me a link to the GH page and tell me what you need in the permalink, I can do that for you rn
 
DSO's going to be JS / stuff in JS
So including K
@AviFS Ok, una moment
 
Ah, is it going to be a front-end-only one?
 
o
@RedwolfPrograms Yeah
 
4:41 AM
@Ausername Confusion ⍤ Did you mean 'un momento'?
 
@Ausername Would it be terrible if I do it within the next 24 hours? By the same time tmrw?
 
I don't really mind when
It'd just be nice to have
Thanks!
 
I'm planning on having shortened links for RTO, where the actual code is stored server side so you just have something like rto.run/b/a1h171
 
That'd be cool, but how much server space do you have?
 
4:45 AM
0
A: "Hello, World!"

LittleWhole文言 / wenyan‑lang, 55 bytes 吾有一言。曰「「Hello, World!」」。書之。 Try it Online! (Online interpreter/IDE, I don't think there's a way to share code directly but just copy and paste into the editor and press Run) For the "Hello, World!" in Classical Chinese example wenyan-lang themselves give (60 bytes): 吾有...

 
@Ausername For sure! I'll have it soon!
@RedwolfPrograms So where do we stand on the backend for an interpreter?
Do we want to use TIO's/ATO's or start over?
 
Start from scratch
 
Exciting!
 
I think trying to add modifications onto someone else's codebase/model would probably be more effort than it's worth
 
I agree.
I think you know more, though, so I'll let you decide all the big and scary stuff
Like what language to use
 
4:48 AM
I'll do some research tomorrow, and figure out a sort of "game plan" for how it'll work
 
If python is alright, that might be nice. Otherwise node would be nice for practice. And ruby/rust/go/alt-lang is always fun. Or C++ if we have to!
@RedwolfPrograms Sounds good!
 
Are you comfortable with JS? I'd probably want to use Node for most of the higher level stuff.
 
@RedwolfPrograms Yeah JS/Node would be awesome!
Like super duper, actually
I only have a bit of time before I should head to bed
Is there anything I can do re: this front?
 
Same here, actually :p
 
Or should I put together A_username's permalink
@RedwolfPrograms I keep forgetting your timezone!
 
4:53 AM
@AviFS Nothing I can think of!
 
What is it again? Mine is PST (San Diego, California)
 
@AviFS If you have something better to do, do that.
 
I'm in CST, so not too far from you
 
@RedwolfPrograms Look forward to starting on that tomorrow!
@RedwolfPrograms Nice! Middle of nowhere : P
US or Canada?
 
US, central Texas
 
4:54 AM
Ooh, Texas! I didn't realize!
Not far at all then relative to the US
 
If not, I need input, header, code, footer (all gettable by document.getElementById(element name).value) and language (DSO.activeMode), preferably in a hash (I'm copying TIO's #language/ ##permalink thing)
 
@Ausername Awesome!
Are any of them going to be arrays?
Or all of them strings?
 
My approach would probably be to use a JSON-like string representation, then compress and base64 encode it
 
I have a thing to do all the work in the tio-api you helped me loads with!
 
TIO uses some weird byte string stuff, but using JSON.stringify(string).slice(1, -1) is a lot easier
 
4:58 AM
I just haven't documented it
@RedwolfPrograms Ah, true. It's def weird.
But, since I have the library, I may as well use it!
 
It'd make it easier to migrate from TIO to DSO links, which is a plus
 
I've been meaning to compare to see how much the byte string stuff actually saves
@RedwolfPrograms Yeah, it looks like they might be the same
 
@AviFS All strings
 
Awesome!
One more question:
Do you have any optional things ever?
Eg, TIO has flags sometimes
(Which are stored as an array)
 
@AviFS It's hard to tell since there's compression, but uncompressed it's maybe a few bytes better than the stringify-and-trim method I mentioned, delimited with "
 
5:00 AM
Flags is a string, and might be empty, as with everything else.
 
@Ausername But you didn't mention flags here
So, (input, header, code, footer, flags)
Anything else?
 
Did I not? Oops. Same as the other stuff, document.getElementById('flags').value.
 
Alright, it'll be slightly different from TIO's then since TIO encodes flags as an array
Do you want to try and make the permalinks compatible by also doing flags as an array?
 
Sure - just split the string.
 
Actually, we can worry about making them match later. I've been meaning to work on the TIO interface anyway
Eg. It actually only takes 'code'
It doesn't take 'header' & 'footer'
 
5:05 AM
@AviFS That'd break compatibility with existing links though, right?
 
They're all small changes, but I'm not sure I'm up to debugging changes rn
@RedwolfPrograms No, just that the make_link func should take a json object as a param
And then it should make the link for header+code+footer behind the scenes
 
No, I mean changing the links to match later on
 
Oh, true
Yeah, maybe I should make them match now...
 
I didn't even notice this did slashes upside down
 
You'll need a dictionary between the language names DSO and TIO uses
 
5:07 AM
Ouch, I knew I'd regret this, haha
It should be trivial though
I just got tired all of a sudden : P
 
TIO compatibility might be more trouble than it's worth, depending on how different the interpreters are
 
But yeah, you won't need the general thing I was hoping to showoff
It won't be too hard to get it to work with TIO
@RedwolfPrograms Sounds like it should be pretty easy with a tad of preprocessing and postprocessing
 
5:26 AM
Hey @Slate, welcome to 'these here parts' ; )
 
I hate History and Civics
 
What brings you 'round?
 
@PyGamer0 Why?
 
ok well not history that much
but i hate civics
 
@Ausername Here I go starting on the permalinks. Wish me luck!
 
5:29 AM
Break a leg!
 
5:47 AM
Wait @Ausername
Are you planning to have most of your langs be ones from TIO?
Because if so, there might not be much of a point
 
No - more esoteric stuff
Like Fishing and eight different dialects of Deadfish.
 
Also, might have to go any second, so just in case there's the bulk of it
But will be done by tmrw
 
Ok
thanks
 
Does the basic structure of it make sense, though?
 
6:05 AM
Yep, looks good, thanks!
 
Sure! Main thing is to not forget to convert flags from string->array in DSO.makeLink()
So it should be:
       makeLink(header, code, footer, input, lang, flags) {
            flagsArr = convertFlags(flags);
            return TIO.makeLink(header, code, footer, input, lang, flagsArr);
        },
 
Just [...flags] is fine
Ok
thanks!
 
@Ausername But that'll parse it into chars, I think
That requires it already being in an array
 
6:31 AM
@AviFS iteration turns strings into lists
of chars
so should be fine
 
@Ausername Yeah, but it needs to be an array of flags like ["-flag", "--more", "-h", "-v", "--debug"]
 
It's more that I can rejoin in my code and handle it later
 
7:15 AM
uuh how do i remove bookmarks in firefox
right click + remove is not working
 

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