The Nineteenth Byte

Aaron Miller

4:00 AM

@RedwolfPrograms But did it cure your diabetes?

Redwolf Programs

Only in addition to all of my infectious diseases

Aaron Miller

Nice

CMC: Write a program/function that takes a list of strings and returns a list of numbers that consists only of the number of times each string appears in the input list.

e.g. ["Hello", "World!", "Hello", "Waffles!"] -> [2, 1, 1]

Numbers in the output list can be in any order.

Unrelated String

...Jelly, 2 bytes?

(ċⱮQ would be my first thought)

Aaron Miller

@UnrelatedString No, this is a cmc, not a ċⱮQ. /s

4

Unrelated String

🥁

Brachylog, 3 bytes

...come to think of it I feel like I've seen ċⱮQ in an answer on main somewhere

time to hunt it down and golf it (probably)

Aaron Miller

4:16 AM

@AaronMiller btw, this cmc was written by gpt-3

Redwolf Programs

@AaronMiller Ash, three bytes: LḢZ

lyxal

@AaronMiller can I please include the words as well?

Unrelated String

it was definitely as a 2,1 chain and i'm pretty sure there wasn't anything applied before it

where's that sede query for searching special characters

Aaron Miller

@lyxal ಠ_ಠ yes. Take the 1 byter.

Unrelated String

Brachylog, 1 byte

lyxal

4:19 AM

@AaronMiller hehe

Vyxal, Ċ

1 byte

very cool

Redwolf Programs

Ash has a one byter too, that also includes the words

Z

lyxal

Try it Online!

Aaron Miller

@UnrelatedString what does the Z argument do?

lyxal

otherwise, it'd be Ċvt

Bubbler

J, 4 bytes: 1#.=

Unrelated String

4:20 AM

@AaronMiller it's treated as a variable in an enclosing prolog environment to unify the output with

if you remove it it just prints true. :P

Bubbler

K, 5 bytes: #'.=:

A username

Metagolfscript-23486927108b49678056912480, 0 bytes

Redwolf Programs

such short, must upvote

caird coinheringaahing

@UnrelatedString I think G overdot, W underdot should also work

Aaron Miller

@Ausername Invalid because it is shorter than Vyxal. /s

Razetime

4:24 AM

@AaronMiller think of it like a query var : select all Z for which this holds true(something like that)

Bubbler

@cairdcoinheringaahing Basically that's what my K does

Aaron Miller

@Razetime ah

caird coinheringaahing

This recently got marked as status-planned, so look out for new staff markers in the future :D

2

Razetime

@Bubbler since the pairs are allowed might as well omit the dot

Unrelated String

@cairdcoinheringaahing i always forget that both of those exist

Aaron Miller

4:27 AM

!!/'night

Vyxal Bot

@AaronMiller o/

Unrelated String

@Razetime more like a convenient shortcut for testing function submissions when you can't be bothered to put ↰₁w in the header :P

Aaron Miller

← 2 messages moved from Vyxal

lyxal

lol

@VyxalBot howdy

Razetime

@AaronMiller well played

sleep well

caird coinheringaahing

4:28 AM

Ok, bots are explicitly banned here unless given permission. Please don't abuse RO privileges in other rooms to get around that

If something needs to be moved here, please do. Otherwise, keep it in the relevant room

Not sure how I feel about mods getting that weird blue badge next to their name - I do quite like the diamond, and it's very iconic

Redwolf Programs

Agreed

Unrelated String

^

A username

What are you agreeing to?

Unrelated String

diamodn

hyper-neutrino

this is only happening on meta right?

caird coinheringaahing

4:32 AM

Yes

Only on per-site metas and MSE

PyGamer0

rn is the computer exam

and i have to on my camera

hyper-neutrino

oh wait i remember they agreed to restrict it to meta the other day since many of us requested it

caird coinheringaahing

Tbh I like everything about this, aside from the mod badge (which I'm undecided about). SE has given us plenty of notice and details about how they're going to be implementing a popular and commonly-requested feature, and Yaakov appears to be taking questions and feedback on that. It's a nice change

hyper-neutrino

while I explicitly said I was happy to have a diamond attached to everything i do and have done on the site, i don't like how prominent the "Mod" display is and i don't want everything i do to be seen as irrefutably final and that people can't contest me on things

@cairdcoinheringaahing it was going to be on the main site too, but they asked us first and listened to our feedback to keep it off main, which was pretty nice to see

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino I'm glad it's not on main, that seems unnecessary

Redwolf Programs

4:35 AM

For some reason I had a dream (or I guess a nightmare) that SE decided to get rid of meta and replace the per-site metas with a literal meta tag :p

hyper-neutrino

i am still not sure how i feel about it even on meta but at least it seems a bit more reasonable since meta is about discussions about the site - I was elected to manage the site, not based on golfing skill and stuff I do on main is largely not mod stuff anyway :p

caird coinheringaahing

One example of why we should have staff badges: see the recent status retag on our meta. I had to actually go and check that this 101 rep user was actually an employee :/

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing oh they hit 101? when I saw the edit they had 1 rep, lmao

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Oh, then 1 rep

hyper-neutrino

o lol

caird coinheringaahing

4:36 AM

I didn't bother to recheck, and just assumed they had the assoc bonus from MSE :P

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Bijection between N and at-most-n-ary trees code-golf open-ended-function math Background Related: a golflang theory I posted in TNB a while ago At-most-n-ary trees are rooted trees where each internal node has between 1 and n children (inclusive). Two trees are considered identical only if the s...

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino I do find it interesting that mods are mainly intended to be janitors, but often end up as community leaders

hyper-neutrino

well, it depends on the community

this site has a lot more specific needs / demands and i'd like to think we're a closer knit community than most

SO seems to be a lot more heavily janitorial work lol

caird coinheringaahing

I've also noticed that's a lot less with you new mods. Compared to Dennis, Martin and Alex, you, WW and JoKing are definitely more janitorial as mods and closer to regular users on meta

Dennis and Martin all but carved out the site rules, and Alex was a leading figurehead in the community. You three are all influential users, but sort of in a different way

hyper-neutrino

things are pretty established now that i'm quite hesitant to do anything unilaterally at this point (and haven't felt the need to really - for example, a previous mod team once appointed a set of ROs for TNB because it was that urgent; we managed to afford wasting four months on an election with no problems lmao)

i'm not sure if things are just stable enough now i don't need to really proactively take steps like setting rules or creating regulations, or if i just lack the decisiveness of the previous mods

Redwolf Programs

4:43 AM

I definitely think it's more the first

Bubbler

I guess it's stable enough these days

When something is in doubt, it's caird who posts a question on meta or MSE :P

caird coinheringaahing

@Bubbler Speaking of, I've got one I've been meaning to post for a while now :P

Should get round to doing that soon

Unrelated String

@UnrelatedString huh guess not

caird coinheringaahing

@UnrelatedString Probably because it can always be expressed as 2 bytes

Bubbler

And I think that snippet is actually wrong

Doesn't it give [2, 1] not [2, 1, 1]?

caird coinheringaahing

4:50 AM

Ugh, now I have to do Jelly on mobile to test it :/

@Bubbler Works for me

Bubbler

Oh, it isn't wrong

because it is (21) and not (whatever)1

caird coinheringaahing

Oh, the count-map-unique one? Yeah, the 2 chains to the monad

log(😅) = 💧log(😄)

14

Bubbler

wat

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing I mean, that isn't wrong

lyxal

5:10 AM

me when I'm doing inverse functions

A username

5:21 AM

Me when Jelly

PyGamer0

8:26 AM

remote: Password authentication is temporarily disabled as part of a brownout. Please use a personal access token instead.
remote: Please see github.blog/… for more information.

err what?

anyone? ^ help

pxeger

8:56 AM

visit the link

A username

9:33 AM

It's totally not a rickroll

A username

10:26 AM

This qurstion

Codidact Posts

10:54 AM

New Posts - Challenges - Code Golf: Caesar shift cipher

posted on July 28, 2021 by Mark Giraffe

Introduction What is ROT13? It's basically a cipher sequence that changes a letter's value from the number chosen. If we use ROT1 on "games", we get "hbnft". The basic interpretation o...

A username

11:20 AM

This is golfy JS now

They're using function for goodness' sake!

Adám

11:34 AM

Ooh, WolframAlpha has added math input.

A username

Hm

lyxal

12:06 PM

Hey guys, what's a pufferfish?

Adám

12:17 PM

A fish.

lyxal

oh.

Adám

Seriously, though, PufferFish should be a library for the ><> language.

It should be spelled >()

lyxal

and alternatively be called >{____}

PyGamer0

1:18 PM

google doodle all_scrolls% speedrun

@lyxal a fish that expands

user

It's a reference to the story GPT generated, pretty sure we all know what a pufferfish is :P

AncientSwordRage

2:24 PM

How can I write an answer to this Q: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/231858/…

I started looking at the quine(s) here: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/69/…

but I've yet to puzzle anything out....any tips?

AncientSwordRage

2:41 PM

I've tried something like a=(_,b=20)=>"a="+a&&console.log(b)

but I can't split and ignore two characters

the idea being that when you only print half of the function you get the default value for b

Razetime

3:45 PM

not a huge expert on quines, but the existing ones generally have two separate programs which can print the entire thing

python one crashes to avoid printing the thing

so i suppose we need something like that in js

Aaron Miller

4:26 PM

Hey @RedwolfPrograms, you should probably go ahead and award this bounty

As well as the others, if you haven't already

pxeger

4:37 PM

@AaronMiller links to the others; hope I haven't missed any: codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/217960 and codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/216087

you have 21 hours

Aaron Miller

@pxeger I just remembered that you can find people's bounties on their profile. I checked, and it looks like that's all of them.

pxeger

oh good point

user

@pxeger Is that a threat? :P

pxeger

tbh, sort of lol

I don't want to miss out on my bounty lol

user

Me neither

idk why I got 200 rep though lol

Aaron Miller

4:54 PM

@user ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

user

Probably just because I'm such a humble, great, golfing genius (well, not just a golfing genius, I'm also good at math, physics, racing cars, all kinds of sports, etc.)

pxeger

@user maybe you should give half of it to me then, because I know why I deserve 200 rep!!

[/s]

user

Well, I owe you 300 rep, but if you're fine with just 100, it's no problem :P

Actually, I need to get to 10k quickly so I can start on that bounty, I think I owe Dion too

caird coinheringaahing

Ooh, I just hit 40k \o/ :D

user

Nice!

Aaron Miller

5:00 PM

@user Well, in a couple weeks your four months will be up, so you could just wait till then. :p

user

Right, but then my rep will start decreasing again until I get to 5k, which I don't want

I want to get to 10k so I can ~~abuse my powers and commit frick~~ help the community better

Joseph Walker

Hey, I posted a proposal for a challenge to train a single perceptron yesterday in the sandbox. Will someone comment on it or something to let me know if its good enough to ask a question about?

user

Sure, can you link it here?

Joseph Walker

Yep, give me a moment.

caird coinheringaahing

Link

Joseph Walker

5:05 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Train A Single Perceptron You must write a program that will train a perceptron to simulate the following things: An AND gate An OR gate An XOR gate A NOT gate Inputs The program should take as input training inputs and training labels. Each list of inputs corresponds to exactly one output. Thi...

caird coinheringaahing

@JosephWalker I'd suggest adding a basic explanation of what a perceptron is, along with some of the other terms

Joseph Walker

okay, i'll come back over to this chat room when I'm done

user

Are those four gates the only things the perceptron will be trained to simulate?

Joseph Walker

No

They are inherently binary, though.

They take an arbitrary number of inputs and have binary output

user

It seems like it the way it's currently phrased, so you might want to make a "Testcases" section and list them there

Joseph Walker

5:08 PM

Ok

I'll get rid of the logic gates part and put those in the test cases part with some other random stuff

user

Also, I don't understand any of this stuff, but it seems like an unobservable requirement. Instead, you could perhaps provide a small framework and limit answerers to that to ensure that they're making a perceptron

Joseph Walker

Ok

user

And should the trained perceptron have 100% accuracy? 80% accuracy? There needs to be some threshold imo

Joseph Walker

I'll make sure the test cases can be solved with 100% accuracy by a single perceptron

hyper-neutrino

oh apparently i had no rep change for 5 days in a row recently

user

5:12 PM

Great

hyper-neutrino

hm. wonder where my motivation's gone

user

Btw, thanks for using the Sandbox

Joseph Walker

yeah, i saw another new user not do that, so i had to make sure i did it right

user

@hyper-neutrino Probably SawCon :P

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino I find it surprisingly easy to go a few days without posting from time to time

Especially if you run out of pending challenges in the Sandbox

Personally, I find it doesn't help to motivate you to post challenges when 3/5 of your most recent ones have got <10 score, despite being IMO good/interesting challenges :/

Aaron Miller

5:19 PM

lol imagine having challenges

Joseph Walker

The easier challenges all get way more answers.

and thus usually more votes

caird coinheringaahing

You do have to get a balance between "Easy enough for people to compete" and "Not so easy that people will downvote"

Joseph Walker

Yeah

hyper-neutrino

i notice that trivial questions seem to get a fairly low score and high answer ratio, and then after a while once enough answers have been posted and it's at like +6/-4, it suddenly just gets like 10 upvotes, and I'm 99% sure it's always because HNQ

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, you'll only get upvotes if your post hits HNQ

user

5:22 PM

Which it usually will

hyper-neutrino

yep. which unfortunately means hard challenges won't get upvotes cuz the HNQ algorithm favors answers lol

caird coinheringaahing

That happens for most, but you need enough answers to propel it there. Otherwise, it won't get seen

hyper-neutrino

i find that the best type of question (with "getting upvotes" as the metrics) are one with an interesting component or something novel, that aren't done trivially by most golfing languages with a few builtins, and are simple enough in their explanation that most people can grasp the core challenge (and aren't some super complex math / theoretical CS concept)

that way it's actually interesting to solve so people are less likely to just drop an easy answer and not even upvote, and it still gets upvotes so it'll hit HNQ and people will upvote, hopefully because it's interesting, but realistically just because it hit HNQ

user

Array manipulation challenges often fall in that category

Joseph Walker

Hey, for my sandbox question about perceptrons, can I just include a link to a web page that explains perceptrons and how to train them instead of writing a definition myself

towardsdatascience.com/…

thats the link i'm thinking of

it helped me learn about perceptrons

when i was younger

than i am now

hyper-neutrino

5:30 PM

challenges should be self-contained, so you should have an explanation that's enough to define what you require in the challenge, and if people don't get it and need more detailed explanations, then they can refer to the article / resource

user

A link would be great, but could you at least leave a small tidbit about what a perceptron is, in case someone doesn't feel like clicking a link but might be interested when they see the description?

Joseph Walker

ok, i'll give an explanation AND the link

thanks

Aaron Miller

@cairdcoinheringaahing y no sample docs?

github.com/cairdcoinheringaahing/Sample

Joseph Walker

whats sample?

Aaron Miller

@JosephWalker A language that Caird made that I want to try out but I don't feel like sifting through the source code.

hyper-neutrino

5:33 PM

a programming language (the linked github repo)

Aaron Miller

ninja'd

Joseph Walker

cool bro

does it use any assembly or machine code, or is it interpreted in python

at 1st glance it looks stack oriented

any documentation?

Aaron Miller

It's got a python interpreter, which I understand, I'm just lazy

Joseph Walker

ok

Aaron Miller

Here's most of the languages Caird has made. I've been going through and trying a bunch of them

Joseph Walker

5:37 PM

He made flipbit!!!

COoL

Did he actually design that language himself?

That's one of the coolest OSICs out there

How does he get his languages on TIO?

Aaron Miller

A guy named Dennis used to maintain TIO, and people could submit languages to be added, but he's not around anymore. I don't really know much about it; that was before my time on the site.

Joseph Walker

ok

pxeger

@AaronMiller @user it has been done

Redwolf Programs

You are now reputationn'tn't

pxeger

much thank you

user

5:46 PM

Thanks!

Aaron Miller

@RedwolfPrograms Thanks, for a moment there I thought I was going to be reputationn'tn'tn't

caird coinheringaahing

@AaronMiller Becuase it's an incredibly cursed language

A program with n instructions has a minimum of O(9^n) complexity IIRC. Every builtin has 9 possible meanings, it runs all paths and then selects the correct one based on the sample I/O provided

hyper-neutrino

wtf

caird coinheringaahing

As I said, incredibly cursed :P

Joseph Walker

i had that thought just now as well

Redwolf Programs

5:50 PM

I was actually thinking about making a similar language, didn't know it already existed lol

caird coinheringaahing

@JosephWalker You might be thinking of a different flipbit, mine isn't an OSIC

Aaron Miller

@cairdcoinheringaahing hmm... Is that a suggestion?

Joseph Walker

I just realized im thinking of flipjump

whoops

hey, are there any self-modifying brainfuck like languages? I think it would be great if there was a befunge-like brainfuck-like language, just no stack like befunge has.

Redwolf Programs

SMBF

Self Modifying BrainFuck

Joseph Walker

Whoah, i need to check that out

is it on tio

pxeger

5:53 PM

yes

Joseph Walker

ok, i know what im doing later today

user

@JosephWalker You can edit your messages btw

caird coinheringaahing

@JosephWalker Yggdrasil is, but it's no where near as usable as SMBF :P

pxeger

press the up key, or select Edit from the left menu

Joseph Walker

I just edited it!!!

user

5:54 PM

This has to be my longest and most cursed answer in a while

Joseph Walker

I feel so bad for u i think im gonna upvote u just because i'd never write that much code for a single challenge

user

Nah, don't upvote just for that

caird coinheringaahing

@user what in the frickety frack is that code? :P

Joseph Walker

Hey, i finished editing my sandbox post. Any thoughts before I post it as a question?

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Hey, don't blame me for having an absolute chonker of a pet lizard :P

caird coinheringaahing

5:57 PM

@RedwolfPrograms I'm "working" on Example which is intended to be a better version that limits the branches of execution based on prediction

@hyper-neutrino I quite like challenges which describe an "effect" rather than just give you the steps to do something, cause then you have to figure out what's going on, rather than just matching the builtins to the steps

CMQ: Music recommendations?

Joseph Walker

music for what???

caird coinheringaahing

To listen to

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Everyone needs to listen to this at least a few times

Joseph Walker

I like deaf-leapard

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Very helpful :P

caird coinheringaahing

6:09 PM

@user Sorry, my bad. I meant to ask for music that goes well with ritual sacrifice to the god of golfing :P

Adám

Does anyone ever listen to Never Gonna Give You Up intentionally?

caird coinheringaahing

Yes, I do

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing I'd say most things Bach.

user

Not usually, but recently, people are trying to do it to get it to 1B views

(which is why I recommended the video)

caird coinheringaahing

(the original, not the other ones that are posted to have a different rickroll url)

Joseph Walker

6:10 PM

i feel like the god of golfing would just listen to a zero byte song

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Oh right, I should hav elinked that

hyper-neutrino

very close to 1B

i hacked together a discord bot that should alert my friend's server when that happens

Aaron Miller

@Adám I listen to it just about every day. And it’s not for the 1B since I usually listen to it on Spotify.

user

lol

Joseph Walker

Yo Yo Ma violin music is good

Adám

6:13 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing this for palindrome

user

> so i guess the piece just go BACH and FORTH

Aaron Miller

@cairdcoinheringaahing Use GPT to predict what the program is supposed to do, and then do that. :p

caird coinheringaahing

6:46 PM

Hey @YaakovEllis, what brings you to TNB? :P

Adám

שלום עליכם @YaakovEllis

Yaakov Ellis

Hey everyone

first time, long time

hyper-neutrino

oh, a staff member. quick, everyone pretend we're normal! (jokes aside, welcome to TNB, we're happy to have you here!)

Yaakov Ellis

@Catija and I were using your meta site as a testing ground for this which just went live network-wide, and we were just monitoring here to see if anyone noticed

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing This is now live

user

6:50 PM

Hi, Yaakov Ellis!

Joseph Walker

Sup, I'm new.

hyper-neutrino

@YaakovEllis our meta isn't particularly active and I was not really watching :P

but had i opened the meta page i would've instantly noticed. that is quite prominent

caird coinheringaahing

@YaakovEllis When did you start testing? I reloaded meta about an hour ago and Brendan didn't have a badge

hyper-neutrino

mmmmm is it just me or is the badge misaligned

the text appears slightly lower than the username

Adám

Definitely low

user

6:51 PM

Does the mod box need to have a diamond now that it says "Mod"?

caird coinheringaahing

The mod one looks a little higher for me

Catija

@hyper-neutrino Good luck with that. :P

caird coinheringaahing

Staff looks fine

hyper-neutrino

(on my profile)

Redwolf Programs

The mod one looks centered for me

Catija

6:52 PM

I don't think the profile page one has changed.

caird coinheringaahing

It definitely has

Redwolf Programs

caird coinheringaahing

Main vs Meta. Used to be the same

hyper-neutrino

on my profile page, the one next to my username looks high, and the one next to the site list looks low

Adám

I find it really shouty (and misaligned):

caird coinheringaahing

6:54 PM

I think the mod + staff is slightly unnecessary and misleading; Adam isn't a mod here

Adám

Catches the eye even more than the fact that a question has an accepted answer, though that green blubb is much larger.

hyper-neutrino

caird coinheringaahing

14 hours ago, by caird coinheringaahing

Tbh I like everything about this, aside from the mod badge (which I'm undecided about). SE has given us plenty of notice and details about how they're going to be implementing a popular and commonly-requested feature, and Yaakov appears to be taking questions and feedback on that. It's a nice change

hyper-neutrino

yeah I think the staff badge is good. idk about making the mod display even more prominent but i am happy they took our feedback about not having this on main

Catija

@cairdcoinheringaahing Technically, he is. There's a different set of abilities that one has when one has a diamond than someone who's just staff.

Redwolf Programs

6:55 PM

Maybe a diamond next to staff could indicate that?

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija Ah yeah. I suppose I should've said "Adam isn't a community elected mod here", which is what I'd associate the mod badge with

Yaakov Ellis

@hyper-neutrino I wanted one that wasn't particularly active, in case things went boom. Just did final spot-checking testing 15 minutes ago

Adám

@Catija Right, but when it comes to speaking about the site's specific policies, it only really matters if a person is a mod here.

caird coinheringaahing