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2:38 AM
Bring back the polyglot!
I wasn't even there when SO had a 404 not found of a polyglot
But it sounds cool
1 hour later…
4:03 AM
I'm debating whether or not to accept my co-worker's answer. It's not the smallest, but it's almost the only one that didn't use the copied-around regex.
4:15 AM
@Joshua the accepted answer in must be the shortest answer
if you accept one at all, that is
4:33 AM
I have a hard time believing winning the meta answers by a couple of votes makes a hard policy
I was expecting somebody might object due to it looking like a voting ring, which might be a reasonable objection.
4:59 AM
@Joshua The threshold for default I/O formats and standard loopholes is net score 5 and twice as many upvotes as downvotes. Given that codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/8712/39328 is at +24/-3 and the next highest net score is 4 I'd say it's a moderately strong consensus.
2 hours later…
6:46 AM
@lirtosiast but this (as many others) "consensus" is probably quite a lot biased as when you enter the page you usually only see the answers with the most net votes and you don't even see the number of downvotes without explicitly clicking on the numbers. And the same happens for answers on main.
@Joshua in I recommend not accepting answers at all, as we consider pretty much all the challenges as open and ongoing, it is rarely clear that there is not gonna be someone else writing an equally short answer
2 hours later…
8:18 AM
Q: Draw Recamán's sequence with ASCII

Geza KerecsenyiRecamán's sequence (A005132) is a mathematical sequence, defined as such: $$A(n) = \begin{cases}0 & \textrm{if } n = 0 \\ A(n-1) - n & \textrm{if } A(n-1) - n \textrm{ is positive and not already in the sequence} \\ % Seems more readable than %A(n-1) - n & \textrm{if } A(n-1) > n \wedge \not\exi...

3 hours later…
11:23 AM
@JohnDvorak ○/
11:39 AM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

John DvorakTile the chessboard with four-colored triominoes code-golf ascii-art graphical-output kolmogorov-complexity Consider the problem: "given a chessboard with one square missing, cut it into 21 L-triominoes". There is a well-known constructive proof that this can be done for any square chessboard s...

12:39 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

ZgarbMinimum string attractors code-golf string optimization String attractors Let \$S\$ be a string of length \$n\$. An attractor of \$S\$ is a subset of indices \$A \subset \{0, \ldots, n-1\}\$ such that every nonempty contiguous substring \$S[i \ldots j]\$ of \$S\$ has an occurrence \$S[i' \ld...

2 hours later…
2:59 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

flawrPrint all the commands META Just a rought idea, needs to be worked out. code-golf Write a program that prints all the keywords and commands that are available in your langauge when you do not import/add anything Details require full program or standard code-golf?

1 hour later…
4:03 PM
@Joshua You shouldn't accept answers in
@H.PWiz finally matched your Julia Fibonacci
I was stuck on eliminating Ref()
I should learn Julia one day
I should meet a Julia one day
I've actually never met a person named Julia in my life
I should discover a Julia one day
4:10 PM
@Naruyoko I think I've seen you on the Googology Wikia before
I thing I saw you too
Oh, okay
So you are on there, right?
And I'm not talking to a different person?
Just wondering
I'm on Googology Wiki
4:13 PM
Since I'm getting more active on it again
I think I'll start picking up OCFs or ordinal notations again
@primo Ref?
For now I'm finishing the array notation I started 2 years ago
And quit on it eventually
@H.PWiz a Ref object is treated as a scalar in a broadcasted operator
Ah, like a singleton array?
or, you can just make a one element array out of it... exactly
4:21 PM
I'm currently concerning myself with your Haskell solutions to evil/odious/pernicious.
@Naruyoko Also, the picture of TREE (function) is a literal tree
I don't know why that seems funny to me, but it is
@H.PWiz as you do this, it may be worth bearing in mind that I suck at Haskell
Right, well I've seen that you haven't posted it to golf.shinh.org
I've met a Julia
I haven't. Neither do I want to, but I am intrigued by Julia.
4:35 PM
@Neil You must direct them to the programming language
@H.PWiz yeah, it wouldn't work there
they... would have no idea
> it was made in your honor
5:04 PM
Q: "Rendered output" doesn't render LaTeX in Review Queue

mbomb007The rendered output still shows the markdown for LaTeX in the review queue:  

The name Julia is very common here. I've a cousin called Julia
@J.Sallé Not sure if trolling or...
@Poke It's true
It's usually written with a diacritic though: Júlia
@J.Sallé Is it pronounced with an English J or a Portuguese J?
5:16 PM
@DJMcMayhem Portuguese J
Although there are many variations including Djulia which would be the closest thing to an english pronunciation
I also know a Giulia although that's much less common
@J.Sallé That's kinda like a zh, right? Like "treasure"?
@DJMcMayhem exactly
Me and Julia down by the Schoolyard
Every time I've read something in Portuguese, I've thought it was Spanish for several paragraphs, and thought "huh, some of this grammar is super weird"
Well, if you're reading Spanish and don't find an ñ in any word, it's probably Portuguese >.>
5:20 PM
Yeah, pretty much lol
@J.Sallé Would Giulia and Djulia be pronounced differently? Giulia looks like Jee-ooh-lee-ah to me, or maybe slightly more like Jyoo-lee-ah
@DJMcMayhem I think that depends a lot on accent, but I pronounce both as Julia with the american J
Brazilian names are very wild though. A common name in the 70's and 80's was Waldisney (the W sounds like a V). And yes, it's a reference to Walt Disney.
That's amazing
@J.Sallé Or if you see a ç
Ç is pretty much a dead giveaway, yes
@J.Sallé Darnedest thing, went to Disney World and everyone was speaking Portuguese
@J.Sallé How does Portuguese Portuguese sound to you?
5:27 PM
@J.Sallé I guess ã is also a giveaway, right? :P
@flawr This song popped up in my YT recommendations, and it reminded me of your post-rock
@Adám very, very fast.
Other than that, the difference makes almost no impact
@EriktheOutgolfer yes, it is
and õ as well, I think
Not many languages have those
@J.Sallé Interesting. I can certainly hear a difference between American and European Spanish.
^ Same, it's a pretty marked difference
th is the dead giveaway there :P
Maybe Portuguese hasn't diverged as much. Certainly, Portugal is much closer to Brazil than Spain is to the rest of Latin America.
5:37 PM
@Adám that's mostly because of the nature of the Spanish language
Most latin americans who speak Spanish don't actually like calling it Spanish; rather, they call it Castellano
Q: Inscriptio Labyrinthica

guifaIn the burial place of King Silo of Asturias there is an inscription that reads SILO PRINCEPS FECIT (King Silo made this). The first letter is found in the very middle, and from there one reads by going in any non-diagonal direction radiating outward. The final letter is found on all four cor...

@J.Sallé I.e. Spanish.
Though I wouldn't call Castellano a dialect, it's a variation of traditional spanish which was spoken in Castella
@J.Sallé I.e. Spain.
@J.Sallé I believe I learned that Castilian is "official" Spanish as promulgated by the Royal Academy
5:40 PM
@Giuseppe yes, it would be the equivalent of traditional German (Hochdeutsch)
6:19 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Rin's Fourier transformBrute-force the switchboard The other day, our team went to an escape room. One of the puzzles involved a board of six mechanical switches where you had to find the correct combination of on and off in order to unlock a box, somewhat like this: -v-v-v- -v-v-v- Being developers, we decided it ...

6:50 PM
@J.Sallé What does dialect mean to you? This is not meant to be a pointed question I am just wondering.
@SriotchilismO'Zaic I'd say a dialect is a variation of a language that's distinct enough, but still depending on, the subject language
So I'd consider Westphalian a dialect of standard German, but not Quebecois and French (although I'm not much familiar with either French or Quebecois, so I can't really say that with any propriety)
So what is the difference in your mind between a variation and a dialect?
Oh wait I think I understand
Would you call Galician a dialect of Spanish?
@SriotchilismO'Zaic No, because Galician is rooted in Galician-Portuguese rather than a Castilian language. I consider them separate languages
The same happens with basque
Wait, so you consider French and Quebecois distinct languages?
Basque is way way different though
German is more similar to Castillian than basque.
7:03 PM
A language is a dialect with an army and navy
I suppose you would count Catalan as a different language as well.
@Adám not at all (although, as I said, I don't have much experience with either), I consider quebecois a variation of french from the little I know
@SriotchilismO'Zaic definitely
@J.Sallé Ah, ok, so you have variations within a language, and dialects which are further from the main language, and then separate languages which have a defence force are furthest away.
Yes, basically that.
I assume I see things that way because Brazil is a very big country, and we have many variations of Portuguese being spoken in virtually every state
So in the southern region there's a lot of german and italian influences while in the northeastern region it's more of a dutch influence
So I guess ability to hear which area of England a person comes from is due to variations, while Scottish and American are dialects, but Frisian is an entirely separate language.
7:09 PM
And there is the whole tu você thing.
@Adám that's a good way to put it
@SriotchilismO'Zaic yes. As an example, here in Rio we use the third person (você) when speaking to basically anyone. Except that, most of the time, we use it with the second person pronoun tu instead.
@J.Sallé Interestingly, languages can be closer to each other than their respective dialects. E.g. South-western Danish (clearly a dialect) is way further away from "official" Danish than old-fashioned Norwegian is. But Norwegian dialect is way far away from standard Norwegian.
As in you conjugate third person but use a second person pronoun? I know that that is very common in some areas of brasil.
@SriotchilismO'Zaic exactly.
I have to say that that confuses me. I am just not used to it.
7:13 PM
We're much more prone to say tu vai instead of either você vai or tu vais
Clearly, there are as many Spanishs as there are militaries, even if some of those languages are almost indistinguishable.
Heh, is it possible for two countries to share a single (official) language?
@Adám I believe Guarani is an official language in a bunch of south american countries
@Adám uh... why not?
@EriktheOutgolfer Because they have separate military forces.
Yeah, Guarani is an official language in Paraguay, Argentina and Bolivia
And I'd risk saying it's been virtually unchanged for centuries
7:16 PM
is it a dead language?
How can a language go centuries without changing while being in use
@J.Sallé But it isn't the main language of any of those. It is one of those languages that are being touchy-feely preserved for cultural reasons.
@Adám oh lol you're referring to your approach of special forces of a language
@EriktheOutgolfer Yup, it seems the most accurate.
eh... still, not sure why it wouldn't be possible
@SriotchilismO'Zaic Again, I'm not an expert here, but it's the language of the indigenous south americans
7:19 PM
It looks like it does have native speakers
@J.Sallé It is actually a language continuum, so it isn't really a single language either.
I would think it has changed, especially with the proximity to Spanish
@SriotchilismO'Zaic Sure, but as soon as a government begins to take action to preserve a language, it is a good indication that it isn't the language anymore.
@Adám Not really. ~95% of paraguayans speak Guarani
@Adám Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question, but why not? USA, UK, and Australia all have English as their single official language (I believe)
7:20 PM
@DJMcMayhem Nope. USA speaks American, UK speaks British, Australia Australian.
I disagree that those are different languages
Each one of those is being maintained completely independently of the others.
@SriotchilismO'Zaic from the little I know, I see no spanish influence in Guarani, although I don't know anyone who actually speaks both
@Adám well... actually, an official language might result from different factors
You obviously know more than I but I remain skeptical.
Oh wow the spanish word for coriander is cilantro
7:24 PM
@DJMcMayhem There are distinct dictionaries targeting each one of those. Each has extensive unique vocabulary and idiom.
Yup, and it's called coentro in portuguese
@J.Sallé That's like in between coriander and cilantro :-)
Yeah, I just noticed that too
Funny business, linguistics
Oh cilantro and coriander come from the same plant
That's why
I learned it the North American way: Cilantro plants have coriander seeds.
7:26 PM
> two varieties are said to be dialects of the same language if being a speaker of one variety confers sufficient knowledge to understand and be understood by a speaker of the other; otherwise, they are said to be different languages -- source
The following is a list of dialects of English. Dialects are linguistic varieties which may differ in pronunciation, vocabulary, spelling and grammar. For the classification of varieties of English in terms of pronunciation only, see Regional accents of English. Dialects can be defined as "sub-forms of languages which are, in general, mutually comprehensible." English speakers from different countries and regions use a variety of different accents (systems of pronunciation), as well as various localized words and grammatical constructions; many different dialects can be identified based on these...
@DJMcMayhem Then many officially distinct languages are dialects of each other.
@DJMcMayhem But:
> Below is an incomplete list of fully and partially mutually intelligible varieties sometimes considered languages. source
A dialect is a creole with a soldier and a sailor.
Danish and Norwegian are (as far as I know) mutually intelligible but distinct languages
@J.Sallé Depends completely on which dialects of Danish and Norwegian.
Yeah, I meant the standard languages I guess
7:30 PM
There are Danish dialects I can only understand with great effort, and then only partially.
@J.Sallé Norway has a few.
The only exposure to Danish and Norwegian I have is from a couple songs
And the ones in Norwegian are not all that intelligible anyway >.>
@Adám A few Standard Norwegians? O.o
Calling something an entirely different language because of some vocabulary and spelling differences is ridiculous
@J.Sallé Yeah:
There are two languages in southern europe (the balkans?) which are considered different since one uses cyrillic and one uses latin
> the two official forms of written Norwegian are Bokmål (literally "book tongue") and Nynorsk ("new Norwegian"). The official Norwegian Language Council (Språkrådet) is responsible for regulating the two forms, and recommends the terms "Norwegian Bokmål" and "Norwegian Nynorsk" in English.[citation needed] Two other written forms without official status also exist, one, called Riksmål ("national language"), is today to a large extent the same language as Bokmål though somewhat closer to the Danish language. It is regulated by the unofficial Norwegian Academy, which translates the name as "
7:35 PM
@SriotchilismO'Zaic serbo-croatian?
@Adám oh, that's cool. I didn't know that.
I think so but I don't remember this very well
Also, for some reason, I love the letter å. It just looks so goofy
@J.Sallé So Riksmål is very easy for me to understand, sometimes easier than (normal) Danish due to Norwegian pronunciation being clearer and closer to the writ. Bokmål is usually fairly easy too. Nynorsk is very hard for me, and I loose a lot. Høgnorsk is hopeless for me.
@Adám that's very interesting
7:37 PM
@SriotchilismO'Zaic serbian uses both latin and cyrillic, but cyrillic is considered more traditional. croatian uses almost always latin, afaik.
@J.Sallé It is a long a (used to be written aa in Danish) which has morphed into an o, hence the o on top of the a. It usually sounds almost like a standard English o, but without diphthong.
Yeah, I knew that. I think I just like how the glyph looks
Amazingly that seems to be how most diacritics get introduced.
ë was ee, ñ was nn ...
ô was os
Ah didn't know that
7:40 PM
But Danish "diacritics" are coolest: æøå ÆØÅ.
@SriotchilismO'Zaic hotel = hôtel = hostel
That reminds me of a comic I saw once of countries talking to each other about their "hats", which would be the countries directly north of them. So England had a hat with a hat, Brazil had many tiny hats, and Germany had a hat that "thinks it can speak German"
@J.Sallé A hat with a hat? Scotland and… ?
Although Irish did it backwards their dots became h
@Adám I think it represented Ireland as a hat too, I'm not sure
@J.Sallé Ouch.
7:43 PM
Maybe it was Wales? I don't recall
Irish has the fada (spelling?)
Which is just an accute
@Adám those are considered different letters though, right?
Ok I finally figured out how to type an overdot. In Irish ḋ became dh.
@J.Sallé Well, they are interesting. Æ and Ø are sometimes used as umlauts for A and O, and sometimes as completely (meaning-bearingly) separate letters. Å is always distinct, I think.
Yeah Portuguese doesn't have any "special" letters in its alphabet, but we do have a bunch of diacritics
7:47 PM
I really like the cedilla.
I just think it is neat
> Romanian: Moldovan – the standard forms are structurally the same language, and hence mutually intelligible. They are considered separate languages only for political reasons.
What is the nasalising diacritic called in Portuguese?
@SriotchilismO'Zaic Til
so ã and õ are called a-til and o-til
Acentuação (which would be the adding of diacritics to words) is actually a very challenging subject when you're learning portuguese because there's a lot of exceptions
7:52 PM
@J.Sallé I like Ǿ. It is uniquely Danish (no other language I know of can use it, not even Norwegian). While it isn't really official, it is sometimes needed to disambiguate text.
The circumflex I find very confusing.
@Adám what sound does it represent?
@ngn Danish does not maintain a mapping between letters and sounds.
that would be too simple... :)
@Adám ah, that's cool
8:05 PM
@ngn The "standard" sound of a Danish letter usually corresponds with the lowercase glyph's meaning in IPA, for historical reasons.
@SriotchilismO'Zaic why? The purpose is basically the same, just the sounds are different.
E.g. lykke and løkke are pronounced exactly the same.
^ danish vowels
@J.Sallé To me they sound the same most the time.
@ngn Yup, and the letter u can represent any of them, depending on context.
8:08 PM
I think my ear is not very well trained for the sound of portuguese.
It will hopefully get better over time.
I guess some words sound the same, yeah
And some of the circumflexes only exist in Brazilian Portuguese
So lightbulb in PTBR is Lâmpada while in PTPT it's Lámpada, and they do sound the same in this case
Oh interesting.
Reading all this as a US-ian, and I'm like "We don't have dialects here" and then realized we have AAVE, Creole like Gullah, etc.
@ngn Simplified, I think. This site lists 32 vowels for Danish!
In PTBR, á is usually an 'open a' vs â being a 'closed a'
@Adám holy heck
8:13 PM
@Adám i doubt you can find minimal pairs between all of them
@AdmBorkBork You're telling me that people from Minnesota have the same accent as people from Texas, Boston, Brooklyn, and Florida? :P
I wonder what they consider a vowel
@DJMcMayhem Oh, I wasn't talking about accents, I was just talking about dialects.
I know we have different accents.
Isn't that part of it though?
@ngn Right, lots of vowels are just slightly modified in specific contexts. It is perfectly understandable if you use the wrong variation, but it'll sounds funny to a native.
8:14 PM
@ngn "minimal pairs" - two words with different meanings whose pronunciation differs only by the vowel
@ngn There certainly are some where a very slight vowel change is meaning bearing.
@ngn Like envelope and envelope?
@AdmBorkBork Yes, but those have huge difference in their initial vowel.
@AdmBorkBork that's just stress
Uh those are different vowels
8:18 PM
due to vowel reduction, unstressed vowels are pronounced differently
@AdmBorkBork Have you seen this? businessinsider.com/…
@SriotchilismO'Zaic enn-velope and awn-velope.
i thought he meant noun Envelope vs verb envElope (uppercase vowel stressed)
I think we are talking about differnt words
I forgot about the verb envelope
Whait envelope (mailer) and envelope (surround) do have different vowel sounds
8:28 PM
@Adám nice :) what about Ǿ vs Ø?
@Adám hm... what does the third one mean...
@DJMcMayhem Yeah, it's nifty.
@ngn Yes, that's what I was intending, noun vs verb.
Apparently, based on where I live, it's unusual for me to say "soda"
@DJMcMayhem travel 100km in europe and the way they say potato will change completely
@EriktheOutgolfer Depends on how it is pronounced. If the "i" has stød, it means "shit" (both noun and verb) and if it doesn't, then it means "[in] trouble".
8:31 PM
@Adám just asking because GT might have done goofed... :D
@Adám i said "different meanings" :P
@DJMcMayhem Just call everything a carbonated beverage
then you're safe
@ngn Most famous is hunden gǿr = the dog barks vs hunden gør = the dog is pooing.
What about the ones that aren't carbonated?
@ngn Sure, but those are all with the same vowel, just with and without stød. The ones with different vowels all have unrelated meanings.
8:32 PM
@DJMcMayhem Call them carbonated too
@Adám is stød a glottal stop?
close enough
@Adám stød should probably be considered a consonant, i don't know...
I know someone that who calls soda "clown water"
"Soft drink" works pretty well
8:34 PM
That is silly
@J.Sallé It is supposed to be a laryngealization (think being temporarily choked while trying to speak), but some make it into a glottal stop (which sounds wrong to me).
I believe it is a dialectal quirk concentrated locally to that single person.
@SriotchilismO'Zaic tbf soda does have an infamous clownish effect...
@AdmBorkBork but then you could argue that you don't use water softeners in your water
@Adám oh, it's way more complex than I thought
8:34 PM
so it's hard water
Stød (Danish pronunciation: [støð], also occasionally spelled stod) is a suprasegmental unit of Danish phonology (represented in IPA as ⟨◌ˀ⟩ or as ⟨◌̰⟩), which in its most common form is a kind of creaky voice (laryngealization), but it may also be realized as a glottal stop, especially in emphatic pronunciation. Some dialects of Southern Danish realize stød in a way that is more similar to the tonal word accents of Norwegian and Swedish. In much of Zealand it is regularly realized as something reminiscent of a glottal stop. A probably-unrelated glottal stop, with quite different distribution rules...
@AdmBorkBork Soft drink is better than "coke" or "pop"
Just below that, it says:
> Because Dania, the phonetic alphabet based on IPA that is designed specifically for Danish, uses the IPA character ⟨ʔ⟩ (intended as a glottal stop) broadly to transcribe stød, it may be mistaken for a consonant, rather than a suprasegmental phonation.
I don't think a soft drink is required to be carbonated by definition
so the math checks out
everything is now a soft drink
except hard water
oh hard water is a surprisingly rejuvenating drink
8:40 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Geza KerecsenyiReverse OEIS polyglot cops-and-robbers sequence Cops This is the Cop's thread. Click here to go to the Robber's thread. In this challenge, your job will be to create a program that: When run in the specified language and given input \$n\$, outputs the \$n\$th term of any OEIS sequence with I...

Fun fact, the translation of the original word for cachaça is burning water.
Ugh, even Danish consonants can be problematic. The official Danish "correctness dictionary" lists angstskrig (anxiety scream) which is pretty much impossible for me to say.
@Adám "suprasegmental phonation". i suspect the number of vowels in danish may be overrated.
@ngn No, stød is orthogonal to vowels, and the vowels count disregards it.
@Adám isn't it just the (English) word "angst" plus an appended "skrig"?
8:49 PM
@EriktheOutgolfer cognate of angst and scream, yes.
@Adám I meant how you pronounce it
@EriktheOutgolfer Ah, but the t is very hard, not like in English "angsd", and a has stød too.
Also "...st" is easy to say, and "ts..." is not too hard to say, but "...sts..." is super hard to say.
@Adám ouch yeah the "stod" sounds like gargling to me
"...gstsk..." is just a mess
8:54 PM
"sts": "st" + "s"; pretty sure the issue is that the second "s" can't connect to the T as it's consumed by "st"
I can't even say angst to begin with
@DJMcMayhem english has a word like "fifths" and people are still complaining about consonant clusters in czech and polish :)
@DJMcMayhem Heh, Danish (like German) allows (and sometimes requires) stringing words together. If one's mother is from Irkutsk and ones father is Swiss, one could consider himself as Irkutsk-Swiss, or in Danish: irkutskskschweitzisk
@ngn sixths is even wors
how about "phthalates"?
because I have no problem with that
8:55 PM
@SriotchilismO'Zaic thumbs up
@Adám Honestly, just the English Irkutsk-Swiss is almost impossible for me to say :P
@EriktheOutgolfer That's just orthography: ftalates.
"dreamt" is pretty weird too. one of the only words in English that ends in "mt"
CMC: English word with the most consecutive consonants
@DJMcMayhem catchphrase?
8:56 PM
CMC: English word (other than he) which both begins and ends with he
Uh is this a round of quartata's regex game
@Poke For a moment, I thought the other was "unkempt"
I thought it was, but that goal can't be defined as a "match this regex"
@Adám headache
@Poke right.
8:57 PM
@Adám Have you ever played "Strupremum"?


For playing the game Strupremum, where players compete to get ...
Strupremum is very fun
@Adám Does hehe count? :P
^^ yeah, I'm having a hard time to believe the accepted answer
the russian letter "щ" is usually rendered in german as "schtsch"
8:59 PM
@DJMcMayhem hehe, no.
@ngn yeah, I was about to say that Russian has a lot of these kinds of phonemes that are transliterated as a cluster of consonants
@J.Sallé not really a cluster
it's actually pronounced [ɕː] in russian, like a long soft "sh"
I know it's not an actual cluster, it's just transliterated as one because reasons?
I'll be learning Russian in the near future (as soon as I finish German)
@J.Sallé because german doesn't have long "sh"-s i guess :)
9:04 PM
in bulgarian we have the same letter. we pronounce it щ=[ʃt]. it's redundant as we already have ш=[ʃ] and т=[t], but hey... historical reasons indeed
@ngn that moment when you realize щ is a 1 byte golf of шт
@J.Sallé In which encoding?
@Adám Bulgarian? >.>
@Adám cp1251
9:06 PM
@J.Sallé also я=й+а=[ja] and ю=й+у=[ju]
@ngn I knew these ones, they're the same in Russian aren't they?
@J.Sallé yes, same in russian
я is the only letter bulgaria adopted from russia
I struggle with the difference between pronouncing й, и and ы
@J.Sallé probably ь too
@ngn I thought that wasn't pronounced at all, like a glottal stop
9:12 PM
@J.Sallé that's the "soft sing" ("мягкий знак"), it softens (palatizes) the preceding consonant
it's like a "y" in english but very short. not a glottal stop.
Ah, I see
btw, they say portuguese sounds very much like russian, though obviously they aren't closely related
(spoiler: stress-timing, vowel reduction, consonant clusters, many hissing consonants, palatization)
only European Portuguese though
@LeakyNun i'm too far to tell the difference, maybe @J.Sallé can comment if that has a ring of truth
@ngn (i forgot: word-final consonant reduction too, d->t, g->k, zh->sh, etc, e.g. like in german too)
9:31 PM
I thought Portuguese words often end in vowels
@LeakyNun it does, but whenever a word ends in a voiced consonant, it reduces it to voiceless. it also does that before another voiceless consonant. see here
I see
@ngn I don't really see much similarity with brazilian Portuguese. European, maybe
The way european Portuguese is spoken is very different compared to PTBR, mainly the speed at which they speak and there's not nearly as many accents
@J.Sallé fair enough. maybe it sounds like that only to some of those who don't speak either language, as it said in the video.
Maybe that's a factor, yeah
9:45 PM
btw, i find the reconstrcution of proto-indo-european words so fascinating
yes it is
I'm particularly interested in Old Norse rather than PIE
for example, i would never have thought of this, but when i read it, it makes so much sense: bulgarian "bread" = "хляб" ("hlyab"). the "ya" vowel was originally yat, rendered as "e" in western dialects and as "e" or "ya" (depending on stress and softness of the following syllable in eastern). in germanic "hleb" -> "hlep" (vowel reduction). further west: "hlep" -> "hlef" (grimm's law). in english "hl" -> "l"
and after some vowel shifts "lef" -> "loaf"
Meanwhile, Portuguese "bread" is "pão" >.>
@J.Sallé like French pain
9:55 PM
Yeah, exactly.
> Usage Notes: (attractive boy): It is now considered outdated slang in Brazil, though perfectly understandable.
I'd totally forgotten that people used to say this.
Also "broto" (sprout) for attractive women.
@ngn is hl unvoiced l?
@lirtosiast see here
10:24 PM
@DJMcMayhem I like what I hear so far, thanks for sharing.
@ngn hmm, I can't even pronounce that
@lirtosiast in bulgarian there's no meaningful difference between kh (like the scottish word "loch" or german "Bach") and the usual english aspirated "h", so you could use either, and right after that a "l" :)
the x does feel much easier
10:40 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

guifaCastilian Numerals A little known (but actually real) number system are the Castilian numerals. They were an odd mix of a digital and positional counting system used in Spain in the late middle ages. There are certain qualities about them, however, that make them not entirely straight forward ...

10:58 PM
most people wouldn't pronounce the th, i guess
I more likely to drop the f than the th, personally
11:33 PM
also, just in case you haven't seen the WIP: ng.code-golf.io/recent
the new scoreboard is also a lot faster
I have seen it. I'm glad that it has been added
recent needs a language filter, though
and also solution rank

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