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00:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

12:13 AM
javascript what
 
12:24 AM
...what?
 
That looks fine
 
@Pavel they're supposed to be equal, are they not
@Downgoat you probably redefined it somewhere
 
I thought the const was supposed to stop that?
 
it is
 
12:45 AM
@Lynn your writeup looks wonderful!
 
oh yeah. anyone know how to turn Wang Tiles into a programming language?
well, mostly the ability to represent arbitrary numbers
 
1:34 AM
If you hadn't noticed, KSab just golfed 4 more bytes off their brainfuck Hello, World!
11
 
The brainfuck answer that beat primo's has beaten itself.
ninja'd
 
hehe
 
1:49 AM
@JoKing O_o.
 
I wonder, is it allowed to impose an arbitrary restriction on yourself while golfing? e.g. "this answer is in <language X> but doesn't <repeat any characters> or <use alphabetic characters>"
 
@ConorO'Brien I'd say no
 
neato I'll post on meta about because I think that should totally be a thing
 
because it's "not a serious competitor"
@ConorO'Brien What you could do is post it as an aside
@ConorO'Brien plus IMO it's a bad idea here. on Axtell though, it's a very good idea
 
@ASCII-only why not? I could just as easily define a language X such that source code must abide by <arbitrary rule> and golf in that
(in fact, I have done that)
 
1:52 AM
@ConorO'Brien same goes with Symbolic Python and JSFuck
Symbolic Python is on TIO
Oh, and Mini-flak too
 
I don't see in the problem with a self-restriction then, esp on a trivial problem
 
@ConorO'Brien IDK. I guess a validator would count as an implementation then?
 
but even for non-human observable requirements IMO
like, "this <restricted-source> challenge is trivial with comments in <language>, but without them, it's much more interesting"
 
@ConorO'Brien I guess. (This is done pretty often in anagol) But the other problem is it'd be below many other posts in the same language
and others would think it's not a serious competitor
 
2:08 AM
14
Q: Can serious contenders do more than the challenge asks for?

DennisAs our help center likes to put it: All solutions to challenges should: Correctly implement the required specification. Be a serious contender for the winning criteria in use. For example, an entry to a code golf contest needs to be golfed, and an entry to a speed contest should mak...

Currently inconclusive about your particular case; adding difficulty to the challenge is allowed is at +10/-10.
 
How many people have answered in HQ9+ for the Hello, World! challenge
 
@Dennis is it worth opening up a new meta?
 
@ConorO'Brien :| why would it be different from current meta
 
10 mins ago, by Dennis
Currently inconclusive about your particular case; adding difficulty to the challenge is allowed is at +10/-10.
 
@ConorO'Brien yeah but creating a new meta question isn't really a solution to the inconclusiveness (or is it)
 
2:20 AM
@ASCII-only yeah. it's asking to resolve ambiguity in the current meta
 
hmm. fair enough
:O I finally figured out what happened to so many users
they all realized what a waste of time PPCG was, so they stopped and got 10 hours of their day back :P
 
2:46 AM
@ConorO'Brien You could add an answer regarding your particular case.
 
hm, true
 
 
1 hour later…
3:59 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

blehReverse Code Golf- Print out two by using variables a and b that both equal one and adding them without any extraneous lines. Your task is very simple, display that 1+1=2, except you need as many commands and non extraneous lines as possible. What counts as non-extraneous? If one cannot remove...

 
 
2 hours later…
5:53 AM
@Poke a miracle has occurred
 
 
1 hour later…
7:10 AM
0
Q: The Time Anagram

Kevin CruijssenOriginally posted (and deleted) by @Tlink, which was most likely inspired from this StackoverFlow question. Since it was a shame it got deleted, because it seemed like a good challenge in general, I figured I'd repost it with proper formatting and rules. (I've tried contacting @Tlink and gave per...

 
7:52 AM
Oh yes, Android P update is here.
 
8:20 AM
@Poke Yes. I feel inspired:
 
0
Q: Take CR and LF literaliy

AdámA Notepad Celebration Given a string consisting of printable ASCII plus line feeds (␊; LF; esc \n; hex 0A; dec 10) and carriage returns (␍; CR; esc \r; hex 0D; dec 13), display (by any means) how the printable characters would be positioned if printed on a printer which takes those two control c...

 
8:54 AM
1
Q: What's the shortest way to define an anonymous function in Octave?

SanchisesI love functional programming in Octave, but it's rather unwieldy in practice. I'm wondering about the shortest way to define an anonymous recursive function. I have some ideas, but I'm wondering if there is a way to combine these ideas to make them even shorter (or equally short but more versat...

 
9:34 AM
@xnor thank you~!! I will tidy it up a bit more and post an answer to the question that has a link to the pdf in it.
 
9:57 AM
TIO now hosts exactly 500 programming languages. https://tio.run
 
@Adám huh?
 
So which language was 500th ?
 
@MuhammadSalman Q#
 
Congrats to that person
and more to @Dennis
 
@MuhammadSalman Which person?
 
10:03 AM
Pavel? he helped greatly in the process
or the creator of Q#?
 
@Adám : creator of Q#
 
@MuhammadSalman That's Microsoft.
 
I take my congrats back. Now just reduced to congrats to Dennis
 
uh, that sounds kind of rude, are you referring to "Micro$oft"?
 
Now I just have to figure out how to do (simulated) quantum computing from inside Dyalog APL.
 
10:09 AM
@Adám C# interop :P
 
@ASCII-only Why would I need to go through C#? Shouldn't it be possible to compile Q# as a dll and just use that? Or somehow using .NET directly? using Microsoft.Quantum.Simulation.Simulators
 
@Adám .NET, yeah
 
 
1 hour later…
11:17 AM
Why use Q# though
Just implement all the stuff
 
@FrownyFrog it's not that easy to implement...
 
it’s not?
 
@FrownyFrog what makes it sound easy to implement...
 
@FrownyFrog if it is that easy then implement this
 
11:50 AM
0
Q: How to reverse engineer RGB to wave lengths?

Bob van LuijtI'm working with the following function (it turns a wavelength into RGB values, based on this Fortran script): const gamma = 0.8 var R, G, B; if (wavelength >= 380 && wavelength <= 440){ attenuation = 0.3 + 0.7 * (wavelength - 380) / (440 - 380); R = ((-(wavelength - 440) / (440 - 380))...

 
@KevinCruijssen FYI, leap seconds don't affect minutes or hours
@EriktheOutgolfer No, 60 for minutes and seconds is not valid. Ranges are [00-23], [00-59], and [00-59]. Will clarify this in the challenge. — Kevin Cruijssen 4 mins ago
 
12:30 PM
CMC: Print - -- ---.
 
@Adám is this "APL" in morse?
bah
 
@EriktheOutgolfer No, it would be TMO.
 
@Adám the "." after the dashes is kind of hard to separate...
 
Heh, TIO in Morse is – ∙ ∙ – – –
@EriktheOutgolfer Can you do it in 6 bytes?
 
@Adám sure, I knew something sinister is behind a so simple output
 
12:41 PM
1⌽8⍴'-- '
that’s what
9 bytes
 
@FrownyFrog Yes.
 
ngn
12:57 PM
@Adám are you hoping for a train solution :)
 
@ngn Yes
 
ngn
@Adám ok, now you know that I know it
 
@ngn Neat though, right?
 
ngn
@Adám yeah, a wysiwyg solution, so to speak :)
 
@ngn Well, you don't really see until you get the result, do you? More like wyhiwyg (what you have…)
 
1:02 PM
@Adám SOGL, 4 bytes
 
ngn
@Adám I will say no more and let others try to solve the mystery :)
 
@dzaima Impressive. Please do explain!
 
@Adám Compression.
 
@dzaima Doh, I always forget. Such cheat, much shortness.
 
how?
a train takes 2 bytes just for the ()
 
1:05 PM
@FrownyFrog We don't count the outer parens
 
the () doesn't define a train
ninja
 
25k; I'm not worrying about graduation any more.
 
so it takes an input and ignores it or what?
 
@Adám what could you have lost, site analytics? it's not really that interesting anyway :)
 
can you have a train with no input?
 
1:07 PM
no
 
@EriktheOutgolfer Actually, you can, but they are literally useless.
 
@EriktheOutgolfer half broken too
 
I don’t get it.
 
@Adám a train? how?
 
so a train means an input, which you presumably count as bytes, unless it’s ignored
but not the ()?
 
1:10 PM
@EriktheOutgolfer 1+2∘×∘3 is a niladic fork (a 3-train).
 
@Adám but it's still not evaluated without giving it an input
well, niladic functions aren't exactly the same as arrays; the value they refer to can update over time
 
@EriktheOutgolfer Of course, it is really a train, but any attempt at giving it an argument will fail because it doesn't take any.
 
@Adám Canvas, 7 bytes, can't seem to find a better way :/
 
@FrownyFrog Btw, we are ignoring your questions in order not to give away any spoilers.
@dzaima Let me see if I can understand that code: ⊃,/{' ',⍨⍵⍴'-'}¨⍳3. Right?
 
@Adám pretty much, yes :)
 
1:18 PM
@dzaima Or: loop over (1 through) 3, push -, multiply by the iterator, push space, sum the strings.
 
@Adám wow, how did you end up with a very good approximation of the code in a language that doesn't even clue as to how it works?
 
it’s wrong but at least it look like a badass revolver
 
@EriktheOutgolfer I looked at The Basics and saw that the curly brace begins a loop. Guessed the rest.
 
there's also this thing
 
@FrownyFrog Good idea. 2↓∊,\' ---' fixes it for 11 bytes, but I want 6.
 
ngn
1:36 PM
@Lynn are you interested in nitpicky feedback?
 
1:50 PM
but it’s going to be 8
because parentheses
 
@ngn sure!
(but I might not implement it, if being technically correct means making things a lot harder to understand)
 
ngn
@Lynn "The units are the Eisenstein integers with multiplicative inverses: {±1,±ω,±‾ω}" - aren't those additive inverses?
 
oh, that should say "the Eisenstein integers that have a multiplicative inverse" for clarity
 
ngn
@Lynn the "units" are {1,ω,‾ω}, right?
1 is an multiplicative inverse of itself and the other two are multiplicative inverses of each other
 
@FrownyFrog What 8 bytes?
 
1:55 PM
"unit" means something very particular in ring theory en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_(ring_theory)
−ω is a unit because it has a multiplicative inverse, namely −‾ω. −1 is a unit because it has a multiplicative inverse, namely itself
 
I hear unit
 
ngn
@Lynn I think I get it now, sorry for the disturbance
 
> Welcome to vim Fight Club. The first rule of vim Fight Club is you can't quit.
4
 
Keep calm and ^Z killall vim.
 
2:19 PM
@Dennis Keep calm and sudo apt-get purge vim
 
Hm, no, that would remove xxd. I kinda depend on that.
 
vim isn't so bad once you get over the totally-unintuitive-at-first hurdle of quitting for the first time.
 
@J.Sallé What does purge do?
 
> Purge is identical to remove except that packages are removed and purged. Purge meaning that any configuration files are deleted too.
From man apt-get
 
0
A: Triangular Lattice Points close to the Origin

LynnHaskell, 48 bytes f n=1+6*sum[(mod(i+1)3-1)*div(n^2)i|i<-[1..n^2]] Try it online! Uses xnor's "black magic" formula:              A proof of its correctness, and an explanation of how xnor managed to express it in 43 bytes of Python, can be found here. Long story short: we count Eise...

@xnor I posted this ^ answer, which contains a link to the proof I wrote
 
2:28 PM
upvote despite not reading
@Poke Fortunately Wordpad doesn't have that problem.
 
Thank you for reminding me that Wordpad exists. >_>
 
I kinda wonder if I can golf down (mod(i+1)3-1) ...
 
I mean, there's hundreds of text editors out there and you choose wordpad?
 
@J.Sallé It's built-in to Windows. If you choose Windows then...
 
@user202729 then you can install atom, or notepad++, or sublime or something other than wordpad >.>
 
2:40 PM
Do any of those support RTF?
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

maxbFind the minimum set of letters to buy Imagine that you own a board like this: which lets you write any message that you want, given that you have the letters for the message. Given that you have a list of messages that you want to switch between, find the minimum number of each letter that y...

 
@J.Sallé What if you are a developer in a large corporation which prohibits installing un-approved 3rd party applications?
 
@AdmBorkBork Rich Text Format? No.
@J.Sallé That's for programming...
(that's why they have auto indentation)
 
@Adám then you'll be a very, very sad developer :c
 
ngn
@Adám then you should change the corporation first
 
2:42 PM
Then get them approved.
 
@user202729 yeah, perhaps I just took this to the programming field because, well, that's what I do >.>
 
What are Notepad's uses other than for programming?
 
ngn
@Adám jokes
 
Notepad's only usage is to make txt files associated.
 
Actually, it does have one use: Change the font in Explorer's preview pane.
 
2:45 PM
@Adám I use it exclusively to write reminders to myself because post-its are too much of a hassle
 
Even Explorer's preview pane can handle other newline format when Notepad can't. (IIRC)
 
@Adám Very handy on servers to look at log files or config files where installing third-party apps is against policy.
 
@AdmBorkBork Doesn't that count as programming?
 
I suppose in a loose sense?
 
@J.Sallé ^^^
 
2:46 PM
Calendar
F5 prints the date
no day of the week
unfortunately
 
@Adám that works too, although I'm used to Linux servers, which usually come with nano
 
@FrownyFrog I just look in the bottom right corner of my screen.
 
Random thought: I don't like Sublime indent after a line looks like this for(int i=5;i-->0;)std::cout<<a[i]<<' ';
 
@FrownyFrog TIL, not that I think I'll ever use that, but anyways :p
 
@FrownyFrog TFW the application does a bit more than you need. Also, using Microsoft Word as Lorem ipsum generator: =lorem()[Enter]
 
2:56 PM
@Adám That's super cool.
 
@El'endiaStarman It can also generate sample English text with =rand(NumberOfParagraphs,SentencesPerParagraph)[Enter] (defaults are 3 sentences and 5 paragraphs of 3 sentences).
 
Looks like it's the same kind of thing as Lorem Ipsum, just with English. That's pretty neat.
 
Charcoal, 6 bytes: ¹ ² ³.
 
@Neil the period isn't in the codeblock of the required output. (aka your answer is 5 bytes)
 
@dzaima oh, in that case, I can even do Charcoal, 5 bytes: F⁴«ι→
 
3:05 PM
@Neil you points out that...
 
@EriktheOutgolfer No, I did.
 
sorry, I thought I was pasting in a different reply
 
@Adám well, he said something along the lines of "Adám, Adám points out..."
 
@ASCII-only @Adám points out that it's now a bit noisy, maybe you should output to STDERR instead?
 
@EriktheOutgolfer He meant to address ASCII-only. ^
 
3:07 PM
@Adám ah, he removed it now
 
spoil the solution please
 
ngn
3:28 PM
@FrownyFrog everyone given up? I can give a strong hint
 
@FrownyFrog To the - -- --- problem?
 
@ngn it looks like FrownyFrog is the only one here really attempting this and I can't create trains for the life of me
 
ngn
@dzaima ok, here's the hint: the (APL) solution is the problem itself
 
found it, haha
wow I did not expect that
nice challenge @Adám
 
@Cowsquack Thanks.
 
3:45 PM
Anybody else go back a year and a half to read their golfed code to try and re-use it because you know that it did X task and you need that task, but then you can't understand your golfed code, or just me?
 
@AdmBorkBork I explain all my code.
 
I do, too, but apparently not well enough, haha
 
@AdmBorkBork haha same here, still doesn't mean I still understand it XD
 
<s>i’m not actually trying</s>
I do, but I don’t have any hope
 
Three hyphens --- on both sides
 
3:57 PM
horrible syntax
 
Can we have a TIO link with the solution for those 100% disinclined to have a go at it themselves (like me)?
 
⍪⍨¨ does something weird
 
monadic or dyadic?
 
i don’t know
 
like, does it take a left argument when it does that "something"?
 
4:04 PM
no, there’s a commute
 
Can you work out what it's doing using the Scientific Method?
Or, at a stretch, the Socratic Method?
 
oh so (⍪⍨¨)Y?
 
I’m not in the mood
 
(or even ⍪⍨¨Y)
 
I’ll have a tantrum instead
 
4:11 PM
@FrownyFrog You can have a tantrum in the sandbox.
Does anyone else type URLs because it's quicker than finding the page and copying / pasting?
 
Rarely, but sometimes yes if the url is simple enough.
 
copying/pasting?
 
@wizzwizz4 not really, unless it has something to do with Path of Exile. Most URLs for resources sites for the game are just poe.<something>
 
you mean if you ever come across one that isn't in a hyperlink?
 
No, I mean...
If I were to provide a link to TNB, I'd just type chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/240/the-ninetieth-byte instead of copying and pasting it.
 
4:16 PM
@wizzwizz4 that page links to The Ninetieth Byte though >.>
Also that would involve remembering TNB's room number is 240
 
I would just type "24" in the address bar and copy-paste :P
 
And if you're really going to type it, at least leave /the-nineteenth-byte out.
 
@EriktheOutgolfer Huh, interesting. When I type 24 my browser suggests 9 different pages, most of them related to APL. TNB is nowhere to be seen
 
ch, 24, and ni add do the trick for me.
 
@Dennis ni works for me. ch gives me 4 links to the sandbox and one to the APL Orchard
 
4:37 PM
Does it count as Pure Python if you're using sys.settrace() and dis?
 
4:53 PM
24 works for me
Although so does tn, since I use tnb.a-ta.co.
ta and ch both go to talk.tryitonline.net, t goes to tio.run/#zsh
 
Does anyone know how to get sys.settrace to stop on every opcode?
 
5:11 PM
I keep trying to understand category theory. I'm getting a lot of stuff about graphs and function composition, but I still have no idea what a category is.
 
@Pavel that's really the wrong way to think about categories
 
I don't have a way to think about categories yet. Nothing I've read about CG makes any sense.
I feel like it's an extension of group theory but IDK tbh.
 
Are we talking categories in the mathematical sense?
 
Category Theory, yes.
 
I haven't delved deeply into it, but the gist I get is that there are things (categories) and other things/actions (functions) that turn things into other things.
 
5:21 PM
No, see, the category contains objects that get turned into other objects.
 
Oh, yeah, true.
 
I just can't figure out the difference between that and Group Theory.
For the record, I highly reccommend Wolfram Mathworld over Wikipedia on this. The wikipedia article makes no sense at all.
 
Methinks category theory is a generalization of group theory, in a sense.
Doesn't group theory have additional axioms that category theory doesn't?
 
@El'endiaStarman Would that make GT or CT more powerful?
Methinks CT.
 
ngn
@El'endiaStarman s/functions/functors/
 
5:28 PM
@ngn What's the difference?
 
ngn
@Pavel I don't claim to understand it :)
@Pavel functions map from a set to a set, functors map from a category to a category
a category could be larger than a set
for instance there's no set of all sets, but there's a category of all sets
and even a category of all categories
 
TIL -- control + arrow to jump words .... How did I ever get by without this? Manually scrolling through each letter like a common pleb...
 
@AdmBorkBork precisely my reaction when I found that out
 
I use that all the time, and have been for a few years now. I think I accidentally discovered it a while ago.
 
I don't think viewing it as an extension of group theory is the right way to think about CT
 
5:43 PM
So naturally, when you can't use it in a terminal, it's pretty annoying.
 
ngn
@AdmBorkBork those are w and b to vim users
I've been recommended these lectures on category theory but never "had time" to watch them
 
I recently just learned that ctrl + delete works the same way that ctrl + backspace does
Although windows 7's inconsistent handling of ctrl + backspace annoys me to no end
 
That Mac keyboards don't have Delete makes me real sad.
 
The mini ones without the numpad? Or the full-size ones? I thought the full-size ones had Delete right in the PgUp/PgDn/Home/End block.
 
On a MacBook Pro to be specific.
 
5:58 PM
I think the imac keyboard has the delete key, but I might be mistaken
Well, the old one, not that newer, slim kb.
 
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