The Nineteenth Byte

4:50 AM

0

Q: Self-growing code codee codeee codeeee

Write a program (or function) (let's call it P1), that when run, outputs another program P2 of the same language and exactly 1 byte longer than P1. Program P2 when run, should output a 3rd program P3 that's 1 byte longer than P2. P3 must output a program P4 that's one byte longer than P3, etc. T...

user202729

8:01 AM

@xfix You need something that take a file to be valid. If you really want, make it start the IDE and simulate keypresses.

ASCII-only

@user202729 but REPL can take files?

flawr

9:13 AM

@Riker those complexities give me headache! (thanks for the link!)

@Riker I don't like fastest-code challenges/

betseg

10:03 AM

in most chromium based browsers source code viewer doesnt color element attribute symbols or /> etc if they arent on the same line as the starting <, is this a bug?

betseg

10:27 AM

also @Riker and @flawr have you seen this

3

flawr

@betseg I did, this guy makes awesome stuff:)

betseg

10:49 AM

oh

well the video is nice and i got a star :P

flawr

@betseg do you know his other videos? :)

betseg

yep, all of his work is too well done for youtube

Dennis

12:33 PM

Why is this considered a valid quine? I don't get the distinction between reading your full program's and reading your function's source code.

betseg

12:48 PM

@Dennis i asked the same thing, some answers: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/240?m=42842834#42842834

Dennis

I understand why a function that's being called from the program would be allowed to read its source code (I said so myself on meta), but a function submission shouldn't be imo.

ATaco

Function submissions should be invalid, full programs only imo

betseg

how about tio.run/##qyrO@P8/TUFDU6Gai7M8IzM5QyGNizM1OSMfSNdypXH9/w8A

ATaco

that’s clearly a full program and I am not doing this discussion again with the same code snippets :p

Dennis

@betseg Seems fine. Nothing reads the program's source code.

In contrast to tio.run/##qyrO@P8/TUFDU6Gai7M8IzM5QyGNq5brf9p/AA, where is function is the program.

ATaco

1:01 PM

I just think it should be invalid as it requires things that are not defaultly part of the code to be added for it to run, and it won’t include that code in the result

Erik the Outgolfer

in less than an hour there will be maintenance...:/

Dennis

They chose the perfect time for it. There has only been one answer and one edit in the last hour anyway.

Erik the Outgolfer

the issue is that I'll be awake :P

user202729

@EriktheOutgolfer For what? SE?

Erik the Outgolfer

yeah

Mr. Xcoder

1:15 PM

Oh SE'll be read-only again?

Dennis

For up to an hour, yeah. Just stash all your answers and post them in bulk when it comes back.

Mr. Xcoder

Lol :) I don't think I'll have any, though.

Dennis

Perfect, then maintenance won't affect you at all. ;)

Erik the Outgolfer

@Dennis please, please, please no if many people do that it could cause a DDoS

flawr

@Dennis I read: "I just stash all your answers and post them in bulk when it comes back."

maybe your huge amout of rep comes from the fact that you watch what people do on TIO and post them before they can post it </conspiracy theory>

New Sandboxed Posts

1:26 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Fundamental Solution of the Pell Equation code-golfmathnumber-theoryabstract-algebrainteger Given some positive integer n that is not a square, find the fundamental solution (x,y) of the associated Pell equation x^2 - n*y^2 = 1 Details The fundamental (x,y) is a pair of integers x,y satisf...

user202729

@flawr That will take forever. Especially to figure out

if it relates to PPCG and if it does which challenge.

Mr. Xcoder

Biggest fail in my life... (-8)/(-4)=1/2 according to the last line in my math test :/

flawr

@Mr.Xcoder it is actually -1/2

user202729

@flawr WHAT???

Mr. Xcoder

You sure mean -1/12 :P

flawr

1:33 PM

@user202729 I think it might be doable if you know the two most recent challenges:)

user202729

@flawr it is actually 2

flawr

@Mr.Xcoder but -1/12 = -1*1/12 = -1/2 because the ones cancel

Mr. Xcoder

@user202729 No shit Sherlock

flawr

CMC: Make a program where -1/2 seems to be equal to 2

Mr. Xcoder

underhanded yay \o/

Erik the Outgolfer

1:36 PM

@Mr.Xcoder -1 redirect

Mr. Xcoder

It’s urban dictionary, that always happens afaik

betseg

@flawr tio.run/##XYxBCoMwEEX3OcVfFKYupNS60opnkTJ2BM0EE/X4KRootn/5/…

Mr. Xcoder

Maintenance break just started

user202729

Let's see what will happen on SO (either the questions won't get any answer or they will get multiple answers at once)

No longer FGITW.

Dennis

@EriktheOutgolfer I figure takes a lot more than to bring down PPCG. ;) Now, if SO's user were to do that...

user202729

1:42 PM

Completely offline now.

dont kill chat plz

Great ^_^

@betseg whaat??

PHP ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@betseg ELIhaveNoIdeaWhatTheFuckPHPDoesHere?

betseg

i dont know either ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

user202729

1:44 PM

Has the recent question (codeee) got any Jelly?

Erik the Outgolfer

no

flawr

@betseg how did you get to that solution then?

user202729

And... if I read it correctly, is it "output something 1 byte longer than your program and is a valid solution"?

betseg

@flawr saw it on a reddit post that was bashing on php

user202729

11 bytes tio.run/##AR8A4P9qZWxsef//4oCc4oG@O@KBtjvDmFbigJ0g4bmYVv/

(for codeee challenge, Jelly)

Dennis

1:50 PM

@flawr It becomes obvious once you remember that PHP is insane.

For example, it makes up nonsensical precedence rules and parses @betseg's code like this.

betseg

wtf

flawr

@Dennis ah, common nonsense

thanks for the explanation :)

Mr. Xcoder

@flawr Python solution

Erik the Outgolfer

@Dennis four halves is 2

Dennis

But we're comparing with $a = -1/2.

flawr

1:52 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer he just emphasized the precedence rules with the parenthesis!

Mr. Xcoder

No longer read-only ...?

user202729

Alt 11 bytes

Mr. Xcoder

A Python 2 solution to flawr's challenge :P

Erik the Outgolfer

how could we all forget this

New Meta Posts

0

Q: How to keep check on number of data user is entering?

What I mean is, Suppose there comes a situation in a code when user can give me from 3 integers, say 5 6 7, up-to 6 integers, like 5 6 7 8 9 10, and he gives me 5 6 7 8, now how will I check he has entered 4 numbers. I dont want user to give a special character or anything to tell the program...

feature-request

betseg

2:00 PM

@flawr C++ solution

Erik the Outgolfer

@NewMetaPosts off-topic

ETHproductions

This is why there's normally a 5-rep limit on meta sites

It's such a rare problem here though that it doesn't really matter

user202729

@NewMetaPosts I wonder how the OP found out about PPCG meta...

Mr. Xcoder

Reticular solution to the codeee main challenge :P "'34'coo1o;

user202729

Need some downvote to delete.

Mr. Xcoder

2:07 PM

I think you meant downvote :P

user202729

(mistake

)

(but delete vote can be DV too. only VTD is unambiguous)

Feb 22 at 6:17, by Pavel

Vote to Down :P

Zgarb

@flawr Husk "solution"; I don't know how much it seems like -1/2 equals 2.

user202729

... CMP: Design a language that need to read its own source code to be TC. (attack current quine definition)

Erik the Outgolfer

@ETHproductions there are various reasons the limit on our meta is 1 rep instead of 5, mainly the ability to sandbox challenges (which can't be done over main) but, since PPCG is not just a Q&A site like most of SE, and the consensuses are scattered over multiple (often not easily searchable) places, it makes sense to let 1-rep users post...however, unregistered users still can't post over meta, which isn't something I personally like

Dennis

@user202729 Still working on the last design a language CMC. :P

Erik the Outgolfer

2:15 PM

@Zgarb nice, but very visible that you're using K, and no, it doesn't seem like that at all to me

KK-½=2 -> K½=2 -> ½2 -> 1

New Main Posts

0

Q: Swap program halves to test divisors

Four integer sequences In this challenge, you will test four different properties of a positive integer, given by the following sequences. A positive integer N is perfect (OEIS A000396), if the sum of proper divisors of N equals N. The sequence begins with 6, 28, 496, 8128, 33550336, 858986905...

code-golf decision-problem number-theory source-layout multiple-holes

user202729

@NewMainPosts Why so slow...

(can we make a custom feed?)

Mr. Xcoder

NMP is a custom feed...

Erik the Outgolfer

let me remind you that NMP just did average, not slow

user202729

@EriktheOutgolfer ... NMP's speed is subjective.

dzaima

2:26 PM

@flawr SOGL

Zgarb

@EriktheOutgolfer Here's a maybe better one. It's still not that hard to see what's going on though.

@flawr ^

Erik the Outgolfer

well, Husk is one of the languages that are tough to source-layout with, let alone underhanded

your efforts are pretty good, actually

ETHproductions

@EriktheOutgolfer Yeah, I remember that discussion

Erik the Outgolfer

@Dennis which one? I can't remember

Mr. Xcoder

Mar 8 at 3:03, by Conor O'Brien

CMC: Design a language such that the language is decidable under the halting problem. Make it as generally usable as possible. (I might bounty an impressive answer!)

I think

Dennis

2:29 PM

2 days ago, by Dennis

@ConorO'Brien I have no idea what you were even talking about, but your chat message inspired me to create Dodos.

Zgarb

Husk is very rigid for a language where any sequence of built-ins is syntactically valid.

Erik the Outgolfer

oh was it that one? I thought Dennis was done with it since he made Dodos

dzaima

@flawr I don't even know what's happening here

Dennis

@EriktheOutgolfer The language itself seems finished, but I have to work on the compiler. It makes brainfuck look efficient in comparison.

And the docs still need work as well.

Erik the Outgolfer

ah, but now you're working on the language, not the CMC anymore :P

Cows quack

2:35 PM

@flawr APL

Dennis

Fair enough.

Erik the Outgolfer

the implementation is there, you're just making adjustments

dzaima

@Cowsquack minus one half

Cows quack

oh whoops

Erik the Outgolfer

just add a ¯ before the 1 :P

dzaima

2:37 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer ¯1 is not truthy in APL though

Erik the Outgolfer

not -, ¯

then ¯1 will be a single...oh I see

Mr. Xcoder

05AB1E solution (Q is really just ==)

dzaima

@Mr.Xcoder that works in SOGL too, but it does feel pretty cheaty mixing "infix" & postfix dyads

Mr. Xcoder

Yeah :P

Btw it should feel cheaty.

Erik the Outgolfer

unless the language has built-in rationals

dzaima

2:44 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer this looks more legit then :p

Mr. Xcoder

Nobody'll understand this because... it's Triangularity but...

Erik the Outgolfer

@dzaima wait, it does have built-in rationals?

dzaima

@EriktheOutgolfer no, ⁄ just makes numbers super&subscripted: 123⁄456 :p

in reality it's the length of POP command

betseg

from MI6's website :P

New Main Posts

3

Q: Cross-Alphabetic Characters

Background I saw this very interesting Venn Diagram on wikipedia: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabet#/media/File:Venn_diagram_gr_la_ru.svg It shows the letters (physical shapes) in different alphabets that are common between Russian, Greek and Latin alphabets. The Challenge Given an i...

code-golf statistics

Soaku

2:53 PM

What's the best name for a key-value array class, like Python's dict?

user202729

TIO timing is so inconsistent...

Dennis

Different droplets give different speeds.

Even if they're identical on paper.

flawr

@Soaku Map?

Erik the Outgolfer

@Soaku they are also referred to as "hashes" IIRC, but that's a terrible name

Soaku

@Mr.Xcoder ಠ_ಠ What is the argument order in Tringularity? Arguments or function first?

flawr

2:59 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer or hash maps

Soaku

Well, key array isn't so bad, but too long

Dennis

What's wrong with dictionary or hashmap?

Soaku

@Dennis I'm just asking for opinion

Mr. Xcoder

@Soaku Triangularity is stack-based and postfix

Though ) is not a function, so it is somewhat special

Dennis

Stack-based doesn't imply postfix. There even are stack-based 2D languages.

Soaku

3:04 PM

So, arguments are given before function?

Mr. Xcoder

Arguments are pushed to the stack, then the function pops N items from the stack and operates on them. Yes, before

Soaku

Ah, ok then

Mr. Xcoder

I don’t think postfix is the right word to use, my bad

Soaku

Then... well... ಠ_ಠ How can = return 1 if stack ends with 0 and 2?

Mr. Xcoder

The stack doesn’t end with 0 and 2. Here’s the catch :P

Soaku

3:08 PM

hmm

all these digits aren't pushed then?

Mr. Xcoder

Oops here’s the correct program. The former works anyway, I just needed a _ to negate the 1

@Soaku All the digits are pushed to the stack

Soaku

They're pushed to the beginning? :P

Mr. Xcoder

No.

Soaku

ಠ_ಠ Functions pop from the beginning?!

Mr. Xcoder

No.

Soaku

3:12 PM

uh <- this is a link

are you sure they're pushed?

Mr. Xcoder

Yes, they are pushed to the stack

Triangularity integer literals don’t work like that

Soaku

@Mr.Xcoder Why 2 results in an index error, saying the stack is empty?

wait

Mr. Xcoder

Because 2 is a monadic (one-argument) function

Soaku

I get it

Mr. Xcoder

Great

user202729

3:17 PM

Why is the last option so slow...
https://tio.run/##pZRRT9swEMff/SksQG2y0FBQEVXj5G175QOwqUodp7GW2lVsi2zQz17Ojht1gQ4EkWr5zufL/3536SpX1X4v0uupexCiucaE4O/3P3CG10zEdLtF51zQ2hSMlEo3LN9kiAuNNzkXQfiEMDxKF4uF9Me4DM64OAsTd1TKJrDhPJ0mnFyIJIp4WBLCCRnjsY@B/U8xTsqY1lKxAK7uEGhA6yjCk/ubgxI8kXaL4iu7/itWmU3Ja3ZCcO/h8r818DdrcAut8gavTPkwbR2uX1573BTgDcJJtjUrxbQ14Hep@F8mS3vjOIt9a5vUUqyxW0A2gDlNqtPmjrOsTXoL7kWpt3deSA@vL4dKowmBWA/YY@25HkGzbL2JGK0kzkY33ca6nKX5huH46hD1ij/lg3l5D7ZUi4X6I@jyketqCT4ugzKvFQuTTj4k1JwFwtT1Vje@ss8jPCR9h@RH0fl6PTmwBuDAM@BmPQQKQOgcBlnbkVoaUUv6mxWDb48ax/IUTNgVANMNJU0cEqi5gJemw8QwEY8VNCygZDZ/f…

Soaku

@Mr.Xcoder The stack is [0 2 2 2] at the end?

uh, it's -1 2 2 2

Mr. Xcoder

When the execution finishes, the stack is [-1, 2, 1]

Soaku

0 2 2 2 was my guess, because I misunderstood one function. TIO says -1 2 2 2

Mr. Xcoder

@Soaku TIO says -1 2 2 2 – That's because you exclude the =. It depends on what you mean by the end

Soaku

Well, I meant the end before = as it gives the result.

So, yay, I understood the ~~language~~ code!

Mr. Xcoder

3:24 PM

Then -1 2 2 2 is correct

Cheaty (and unneeded, but it's there for obfuscation) use of D, huh? :P

Soaku

D didn't trick me here, 1 and 2 did :P

Mr. Xcoder

CMC: Check if a positive integer is prime in Triangularity

(without using the built-in)

Soaku

I was just figuring out the way how to get the input as int and then you add the no-built-in req? :P

Mr. Xcoder

E and f casts to an integer

Soaku

You meant f

Mr. Xcoder

3:32 PM

Ninja'd my edit :(

Perhaps we should move to the Triangularity room?

alright

(here‌)

why? works for me

Yeah nvm it is possible :P

I forgot I fixed that bug

Dennis

@user202729 Because TIO disables buffering.

tio.run/…

Soaku

3:38 PM

TFW somebody upvotes your old post which was just a random command in a random language...

well. I didn't expect anyone to revive my attention to that post...

Just a random language and the first character from keyboard.

Riker

5:35 PM

@flawr np

@betseg what in the everloving heck is that video

10/10 tho

betseg

now go binge watch every single video of him

Riker

maybe later I do'nt have time rn

but I probably will

the silver half mask / gloves / etc. kinda weird me out tho

betseg

what? that's a flesh colored mask on his upper face he wears so you don't feel like he's different than humans

flawr

@Riker what could possibly be more important than watchin his videos? O_O

Riker

@betseg ah

@betseg he reminds me of lore from tng

@flawr hydraulic press videos >.>

and then getting ready IRL

@flawr youtu.be/hHFuZVGpBC0?t=29s

the thing about views, I must do my part

betseg

5:47 PM

oh wow, they still do videos

flawr

6:24 PM

@Riker this guy also has bingeable stuff: youtube.com/user/alectheblacksmith

(I didn't know I was interested in blacksmithing before discovering this channel.)

Riker

already subbed :D

@flawr youtube.com/channel/UCt14YOvYhd5FCGCwcjhrOdA same here

some are great, some aren't, but most are still interesting

flawr

@Riker already subbed :D

betseg

7:56 PM

i.stack.imgur.com/Jx67s.png i was just clicking on random planes, what is that one doing

Erik the Outgolfer

I guess it was just circling around the airport until given permission to land (and it just landed on Turkey again)

PhiNotPi

Regarding the "cipher challenge" I made, I wonder if I should just end the challenge because I really doubt anyone here is going to put in the time to solve it (+ the fact that I haven't given PPCG nearly as many hints as my IRL friends).

betseg

8:13 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer also i love how it tries to avoid the bulgarian airspace as long as possible (purple bit of the line), like how photons travel through different mediums, to avoid paying them fees :D

flawr

@betseg I love your photon metaphor :D

betseg

google.com.tr/search?q=tk1029 hmm google says it landed on sofia

Erik the Outgolfer

hey, this challenge is not as hard as it looks at first

ngn

8:35 PM

@betseg It says "delayed" for me. Most likely it was denied landing due to weather conditions. News sites mention strong winds in Sofia today, code "orange", fallen trees and rooftops. Aeroplanes usually follow one "corridor" when approaching an airport and another when leaving - look at the other planes near the lighter blue line, they all face the same direction.

betseg

@ngn oh right, i forgot about the storm. also, the plane could've turned at a different time, but it turned just after it passed above the border so it's suspicious 🤔

ngn

@betseg hm, are we looking at the same screenshot? i.stack.imgur.com/Jx67s.png It circles over Koprivshtitsa and Panagyurishte, well within Bulgarian airspace, not too far from Sofia.

betseg

i.stack.imgur.com/wn9LN.png oh, i meant this

ngn

@betseg one of the two big yellow ones?

betseg

i.stack.imgur.com/quHBi.png .

ngn

8:50 PM

@betseg Are you sure other planes don't follow similar corridors? There are a few US military bases in southern Bulgaria, which civilian aeroplanes might be required to avoid. It may be worth mentioning that Turkey, Bulgaria, and the US are NATO allies :)

betseg

i.stack.imgur.com/TJAon.png ~~3 of those are turkish airlines planes, going/went through southern bulgaria~~ they didnt go southern bulgaria but they (and the first one) didnt have to

ngn

@betseg It's not like all of southern Bulgaria is a no-flight zone. This is where the bases are located: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

New Main Posts

10:22 PM

-1

Q: iam relatively new to java and iam trying to making a game menu for a game using swing as practice so a similar assignment i have

iam relatively new to java and iam trying to making a game menu for a game using swing as practice to a similar assignment i have,i created a cardlayout to switch in bettwen panels but everytime i click on the new game button that takes me to the GamePanel i get a NullPointerException ive tried e...

java

Dennis

2

A: Golf you a quine for great good!

Cubically, 191143 bytes bzip2 base64: QlpoOTFBWSZTWZU/tOUAHNVenAgAIepvANQAAgAACgAIAAgQAFAE3e80y02ywGbAAoNGjQZAaFBo 0aDIDQSeqpNI0AAAmpVQ0aMRhACkoqFPCmGBR69kKq9wBsjr380iVN3qKB/elQPX6/XmVA9Ln06r YLLa2mVgItbVjZTVVRAlMNNYlqyyk1KlrVtU2WkthWFsG1tShSbVRtrRqm2mYCZTWYSWDYWs0pSm opYkzVbEGmssSasazWKjaotZVR...