12:03 AM
i live again
and waiting 3 seconds seems like a good warning to slow down in the queues

@Neil oops >_> will try to fix asap
oh also. 17 byte j quine on code-golf.io, wonder how they did it

@ASCII-only ta

12:19 AM
@Neil oh crap, found another bug, escape character isn't needed :/

12:41 AM
wait @Neil mind posting the verbose for that? quick testing shows the escape character normally doesn't show up

12:56 AM
@Neil ok the reflection should be fixed when Dennis pulls

@ASCII-only Try it online!

wait crap
:| damnit
oh yeah i was just using the wrong flags >_>

@Zacharý california fire map
so much smoke in the air here in the bay... it's crazy

Ah, okay

1:18 AM
@ASCII-only thanks you're now tieing with Canvas again on codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/175619

1:52 AM
@Zacharý being on fire is more or less a perpetual state of being here

@Neil well. it works without the escape char, but dennis hasn't pulled the deverbosifier fix yet :P

2:25 AM
@Neil ok now we're beating Canvas :P
oh also anyone know how the 25-byte source-reading js quine on code-golf.io works?
oh nvm got it

3:03 AM
ok, now for the perl 6 quine :/

3:28 AM
(finished that, now for... perl 6 fibonacci i guess? although i have absolutely no idea how it's under 20 bytes O_o)

@Zacharý That's more interesting.

if anyone that knows perl 6 well is online, anyone know if there's a shorter way to print lists delimited by newlines than .say for <list expression here>?
seems possible since i'm far behind on the sequence challenges

3:49 AM
@JoKing ?

Sup?

(You know Perl right? I think you can answer ASCII's question above)

Oh right. @ASCII-only Perhaps (list)>>.say

oh :|

Though it doesn't work for multi dimensional arrays

3:51 AM
damnit
only saved one byte :(

Oh, you're doing code-golf.io?

@JoKing By the way what are those * and . called? Lambda?

yeah

* is a Whatever lambda. Basically, * are the arguments. e.g *+* is basically {$^a+$^b}

*closure?

3:54 AM
I dunno what that is, sorry

pretty sure that's what perl calls them. like lambdas but without explicitly stating arguments or something like that, idk
anyway. 17 bytes how O_o

. is a operator (sort of). It's used to call methods

yeah .say is just short for $_.say @user202729 A tip, Perl 6 can use non-ascii numeric literals @JoKing ofc, that's how i did some other ones especially the quine. not possible without that tip 3:57 AM Ah. Okay then. As the 1st person to get 17 chars on fibonacci, I can't really tell you the answer But my submission is just a sequence, no (...)>>.say or .say for ... Just in the format a,b...c wait wat hmm so it seems like possibly the conventional *+*...* isn't the golfiest here @user202729 finally :P 4:01 AM Isn't that a weird name for a star/asterisk? ... nope??? whatever is the concept, not the symbol "*" literally stands for whatever "whatever + whatever" wait a sec people had 18 bytes in 2017 wat I have seen a shorter implementation for fibonacci than *+*, but it has to start from 1,1, so it doesn't work here @ASCII-only Yeah, the first (mine) was on the 23rd of June. I'm not sure what the 18 byte solution looks like, since I skipped straight from 20 to 17 4:39 AM @JoKing this format exactly? :P or the normal a,b,c...d Oh oops, yeah I meant that > just a sequence makes it sound like you're printing in the loop but that's harder than it sounds >_> Yeah, the say is in one of the last two sections, not the outside also. the core sequence is already 14 bytes for me :/ 11 + 3 for condition 11, really? OH @ASCII-only Bwahaha, you're still using ... aren't you? 4:44 AM yes >_> why i'm bad at perl so idk any other way Have a look at Unicode vs ASCII and see if you can spot it wait :| :|||||||||||||| oh … can be used I guess? yes goddamnit XD it was so obvious down to 20 now. one last step so you have to somehow print and return it i guess. in 5 extra bytes turns out 19 uses ».say btw 5:10 AM @Pavel you could do this using memoization :P 5:20 AM @JoKing if it's sufficiently non-spoiler-y: do you use put/say/print to output? or some weird hack that's mainly symbols Yes, I use say in the code 1 hour later… 6:29 AM Lol, Perl 6 is too cowardly to permutate more than 20 elements 1 hour later… 7:49 AM anyone have experience with the graphics stack on linux? should i be using opengl for drawing simple geometric shapes and text? 8:27 AM 2 Note: This is an attempt at recycling guest271314's permutation question(s) There's an interesting pattern that forms when you find the differences between lexographically sorted permutations of base 10 numbers with ascending unique digits. For example, 123 has permutations: 123 132 213 231 312... 8:52 AM @JoKing if you're still here: how to divide A217626 by 9???? 1 For the purposes of the current challenge to "outline" a word means to surround it successively with its own letters, starting with the last one, and finally to replace the original word in the center with spaces: oooooo onnnno on -> on no onnnno oooooo Task: ... 9:10 AM @ASCII-only I meant divide each element of A217626 by 9 are they not already divided by 9 tho Oh oops, lol fixed 9:23 AM hmm it's not perfectly palindromic 1 hour later… 10:32 AM @ASCII-only Oh, where does it diverge? 11:14 AM @ASCII-only oh if were involving fixing bugs 11:27 AM really I should also add a 1-char thing for ：⤢ｎ for another -2 bytes, but meh 3 hours later… 2:01 PM @JoKing ? @user202729 Diverge as in not be palindromic anymore 2:26 PM 0 Challenge Take an input string \$s\$, and split it into words \$w_1, w_2, ..., w_n\$. If the amount of words is odd, then return \$s\$. Otherwise, for each word: Take the second last letter, and swap it with the first letter keeping capitalization positions. So GolF becomes LogF. Now check if t... 2 hours later… 4:40 PM 0 Given a positive integer, write it as the sum of items, where each item is in \$\{kt|k\in{1,9,81},t\in{1,2,3,...,64}\}\\$. How many items at least are used? Shortest code win. Samples: Input Output Method 1 1 1 2 1 2 64 1 64 65 2 64+1 72 1 72 343 ...

3 hours later…
7:55 PM
0

Matlab has a useful command for visualizing data: plot. It draws data points using "markers" in 2-D space, connecting them with lines; however, for this challenge, let's ignore the lines and use only markers. In fact, only one marker. Input: one of Matlab's marker symbols: . o x + * s d v ^ < > ...

0

Given a non-empty rectangular array of integers from 0 to 9, output the amount of cells that equal 8 and do not have a neighbour cell equal to 8. Neighbouring is here understood in the Moore sense, that is, including diagonals. So each cell has 8 neighbours, except for cells on the edges of the a...

hi all

hi

I am still hoping someone will claim my bounty! codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/175470/…

8:19 PM
@LuisMendo huh? is that inspired by the "IF YA WANTED A GRADE, YA SHOULDA PUT YA NAME ON IT" meme?
If you like it then you should have put a vote on itLuis Mendo 26 mins ago

No it's all the single ladies
Which is what the title is also a reference to

ah, looks like it :P

Is there a term for 1-cos(x) or 1-sin(x)?

I believe so but it would probably not be a good idea to use it
versine and coversine
or vercosine, I don't know the second one

Awesome

8:26 PM
after a bit of googling, it looks like "coversine" and "vercosine" are entirely different things...

8:43 PM
@EriktheOutgolfer @PostLeftGhostHunter Yup, Beyoncé’s song

@EriktheOutgolfer I have been summoned

partially expected that...

lol
I've never heard of the two terms

yeah, it looks like "ver" is some property, "cover" is some other property

covercosine :thinking:

8:48 PM
yeah, that exists too

What does it mean though
I can't find what cover means

I think I still don't get it
There's probably a giant paper on the etymology of trigonometric functions out there somewhere
That explains where all the cos come from and such

sine is from the latin sinus meaning bendy
Or something like that. Its been a while since I took latin.
Its also a part of a tunic? IIRC

Does sinus as in nose come from the same thing, I wonder

8:58 PM
could be. Don't know
Yeah according to wiktionary yes

@Pavel I think so. The word means arch. In the anatomy, it is the arched hollows behind the face.

It also appears to just mean cavity

9:34 PM

Is that Czech I see at the bottom?!

I think that's Polish...

I reckon its Czech

@JonathanAllan Thank you!

I took it from reddit

9:42 PM
The inverted hats are used more in Czech, not Polish, IIRC
Verb: přeložit pf (imperfective překládat)
1. to translate (from one language to another)
2. to fold

@cairdcoinheringaahing Those are logical OR symbols.

@Adám I know you're joking, but I do mean the accents :P

@cairdcoinheringaahing

10:00 PM
CMC: Given a positive integer, output it in base -1+i. Examples: 2 -> 1100, 5 -> 111010001, 27 -> 1110100011100
The examples are found using the solutions to this question, if any errors are found

This base makes me scared and confused

10:14 PM
I think 1110100011100 is -18 = (-64-0j)+(32+32j)+(0-32j)+(16+0j)+(-4-0j)+(2+2j)+(0-2j)

if ḅ-ı worked, we'd know by now...

@JonathanAllan I get -18

also, what Adám said

Yeah -18

10:16 PM
@EriktheOutgolfer b-ı, shrug

how hard would it be and what would it entail to create a language with custom glyphs a la APL? eg, to design a lang like Jelly which instead of unicode glyphs had its own special set, each one designed to be mnemonic and suggestive

@JoKing check oeis -> graph. the next small peak to a new large peak will be higher than the other 5? small peaks (if that's understandable)
@Jonah not hard

@Jonah Instead of Unicode glyphs? You mean custom icons not in Unicode?

well

Anonymous
@Jonah Making the font would be the hardest part. Everything else would be easy - you'd just make a custom code page, assign the glyphs to unused Unicode values, and you're 99% of the way there.

10:20 PM
@Mego nah making fonts is easy

@Adám yes, that's what i mean

@Mego Or rather assign to bytes.

@Jonah pick characters from Unicode and make the implementation convert from bytes to these characters (or vice versa, whatever you want)

Anonymous
@ASCII-only I didn't say it would be hard - I said it would be the hardest part

nah. just assign the glyphs from 0 to 255 directly
@Mego oh. that's true

10:21 PM
@Jonah I'd claim that most APL symbols are mnemonic and suggestive. (But that's me of course.)

Anonymous
@Adám That's what I meant by "make a custom code page" - Unicode ordinal assignment would be helpful too in some cases

@Mego But Unicode doesn't enter the picture here.

yeah, just plain single bytes
well

@Adám I agree. But most of the other golfing languages seem to use arbitrary-ish symbols. I'm curious why custom glyphs aren't done more often, as I really like them when they're done well. I'm guessing it's just a pain / time consuming to think up and create each one?

putting the glyphs in unused codepoint space means you can just have a userscript that loads your font as fallback, and both normal code and your code will display correctly

10:23 PM
well, tbh, custom glyphs are hardly ever useful

Anonymous
@ASCII-only Exactly what I was thinking

@Jonah nope, it requires userscripts mainly
i try to use mnemonic symbols for Charcoal

@EriktheOutgolfer, why is that? i'd think it significantly reduces the burden of memorization and makes the learning curve less steep, no?

>_> not that it works very well at all. especially if half the builtins are still letters

@Jonah There are a lot of Unicode glyphs. I think it is mostly a matter of finding appropriate ones and then of course the reader's device has to render them right too. Already an issue with APL, where ≢ renders wrong on Blink for Windows.
@ASCII-only At least APL only uses a handful of (Greek) letters.

10:25 PM
yes it does :/
maybe you should submit a bug report

@ASCII-only I did so thrice.

he has done so twice already...

oh
well. rip
time to (attempt to) dig around in chromium's source after my exams

First was closed for "being a font issue" despite proof to the contrary. Second was recognised and reproduced, sent for triage, and then closed for inactivity. Third was through a different channel (not bug report on tracker, but GUI feedback) — maybe a charm?

@Jonah well, custom fonts will not be rendered correctly in other websites without special extensions or userscripts, as long as there's proper documentation there shouldn't be a problem without custom glyphs

10:27 PM
@Jonah Can you give an example of a not-in-Unicode symbol you'd think would fit well for a particular function?

@EriktheOutgolfer, would it be possible to make your custom glyph set a custo font?

Btw, Iverson used symbols that Unicode didn't include, so papers have to resort to inline images…

@Jonah there are ways to create custom fonts, but why go through the hassle? just use existing chars, you want to make your language easier to use after all

@Adám I don't have anything in mind at the moment. But say I have a custom verb that does "whatever", and I think of the perfect picture that captures it. I suppose it's possible that picture exists in unicode somewhere, but it's not likely, if it's just some picture I thought of. @EriktheOutgolfer ^^ would be the motivation. Keep in mind I haven't done any of this yet, just thinking it through and thought I'd get feedback from experienced lang creators...

damnit Charcoal doesn't have a permutations builtin yet :P

wait, somebody actually tried that ^^

@EriktheOutgolfer What?

@Adám yeah, not sure if anybody else has been trying to solve that CMC...

@cairdcoinheringaahing APL (Dyalog Unicode), 28 bytes {⍺=¯1J1⊥b←2⊥⍣¯1⊢⍵:b⋄⍺∇1+⍵}∘0 and this one actually computes even for "large" magnitude numbers

@cairdcoinheringaahing Jelly 16 bytes ‘ŻŒP-ı*§⁼ʋƇ⁸‘ṬḢṚ 18 takes 1m20s though, not efficient :p

10:47 PM
@JonathanAllan My last solution takes 500 μs for 18 on my machine.

yeah but the golfy version I did gets the power-set of [0,n+1] and evaluates all of them.
(as sums of (-1+1j)**n)

@JonathanAllan My first one did that too. My second one just begins with 0 and counts up until it finds a match.

Dunno how to golf that in Jelly

@ASCII-only The graph only shows the first 200 elements. The first 120-1 elements (right before the spike) are palindromic, and the first 720-1 elements are palindromic

:( i thought 9erilous 9ermutations would show a pattern in balanced nonary, idk why >_>
https://tio.run/##7Vrbbts4EH2uv4IPXtipZUNDDikLXhf5jyINnNRttZvEht1uEQR56OVL@yPpcHwJx02TiIIX2DUDROaQPBrycDhDUpxPFxfu7u7y@ngy7kJWZpr@ISuG9IAyM9mQcoqCHkMSYFu2qehsEUjAZbrMMCuounOUD0OSwL/GFeFLHTohFiESCkfPgiTNWkQDPDIUC6lFIOGR1j67k9YYF4MDqU9zoSkzmzlqn7WUr4ckge@ydSEB1thQCTA9Wyi9mEkiUftiK4n24KBNwAwFmiQY5LhYdJEjarW2sVChtA5R4Jipe@JcCNWFpacjyfBACtuw2kranNDjSQ6wII3QmljztRpsLFQqrWkVOpYo5jgkzkk9Aqrl1Imeq2xNkVCptKb9m0ZWEUsU/Mu@6SAcN0IONrHzu/AUaztaKjRciCWbNpk4tTEzQ5LAexa0oZ9BjaESzfxsoWCRCnRBovZ8ofT8Hhy0STNFgSYJBhko0NjIEIM
@JoKing that's true. but i guess it's interesting how sometimes it's almost palindromic? idk

10:58 PM
@JonathanAllan hm, not sure if # is going to make things shorter...

11:13 PM
hmm. i wonder if we'll find anything from comparing values of new peaks

11:27 PM
@JoKing :/
https://tio.run/##bVLblpMwFH1uv@I8RJMUQsm0XhCZNfoJjm8spotScFKhsKCjspAHR7/UH6knSVutykPYOWfvzbnQ5G35/HCo@qdFNLBYJFClDQxkHsV3QZCEr6Qfm8jXrilVlgOZu2TlytGN37kJeE1d9lW9YdLzghc8GTHpSDz4PBin3cMasrRte2Czm436oPYdqA6yuuk5DFPAp6zrBljVA1EQgR/q92s4kvXNcTR18vlelfkpHhOVIEssYbgIOREE4R8RRyZChDD@T34NS/hLLv6VO46W60Lt2WC1p04uPCHdbWBX78/ymZBJaDSnZqbjFPt8gh1/fGgiKpY0uqY/H39Ql4qFxd81vrL4UWNp8TfEvoY@AhOTCAzxCoFRLxAYyyUNzeQ7YETh8I5fHOwmiPLWaZezgHtZXa29Nv@Ut10@etta7byiVA3uLUXeygU6oS50rGC4Tw5F3cKd9K15kWZ7tD@vc6h6so1kaIeCiYFsZxFReoUikiO@t9aY3qSxUSuOI8Ja9fLfv3l7Gz0LLWE3Mfkd5qkpAr5YhpB4Ldg5y2l4WautasUN0eiYEYKA