The Nineteenth Byte

1:00 PM

The example Y contains dabda

@LeakyNun I'm intrigued by your CMC. Can you repost it without mathjax?

@Adám CMC: write a function that when given two natural numbers x and y, return whether x<=y, where <= is an ordering on the natural numbers such that the order type of the natural numbers become ω^ω

Adám

@Lembik I The two will look different anyway, because the code is in monospace font, while the description has to use proportional to avoid different background color (and therefore confusing the separation between code and comment).

@LeakyNun You'll have to explain more for this bear to understand. why is it significant that the ordering type is ⍵^⍵? Doesn't that just mean that it is order-preserving since there is an order-preserving bijective mapping between ⍵ and ⍵^⍵ when ⍵≥0?

Leaky Nun

@Adám omega is the smallest countable ordinal...

Adám

@LeakyNun I probably know too little math for this CMC.

Leaky Nun

@Adám treat it as the set of polynomials with natural number coefficients

I mean, treat ω^ω as that

Adám

1:12 PM

@LeakyNun Sorry, still not enough. Input is two positive integers. How do I get polynomials from that?

Leaky Nun

@Adám such that there is an order-preserving bijection between the natural numbers and the polynomials with natural number coefficients

Lembik

@Adám got you. Thanks

@Adám But I don't ask for the first in the question

"A substring of the second string which is an isomorph with the first string, if such a thing exist. "

here is a puzzle .. if Alice and Bob has bit strings of length n, how much data (in bits) does Alice have to send Bob so that Bob can compute the Hamming distance between the two strings mod 4 ?

Anonymous

@Lembik Naive attempt: min(popcount(A), n-popcount(A))

Anonymous

But I'm not sure that works

Anonymous

No... Because the order matters

Lembik

1:23 PM

right

to be clear, Bob is outputting one of the values 0,1,2 or 3

If I could think how to turn it into a challenge, I would

if it is mod 2 then Alice need only send 1 bit

popcount(A) mod 2

HyperNeutrino

making language interpreters on TIO is great

Anonymous

1:41 PM

@Lembik Maybe have the modulo's second arg be the parameter?

Adám

@Lembik Oh. I must somehow have read the word first. In any case, if any matching substring is OK, then your example should say that any of these are valid outputs.

Lembik

@Mego I think if the protocol is deterministic then Alice can't do any better than send the whole string

@Mego this is because whatever she sends Bob, can toggle his bits until he computes the whole of Alice's string

Adám

Is there anything I need to do to cause PPCG to show a new version of a community ad (other than editing the post of course)?

Leaky Nun

1:59 PM

@Adám do you understand the CMC?

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Looking for some help to make this code golf/question better. Proposal: Now that twitter has increased it's character limit from 140 to 280, there's a joke of almost enough to write Hello World! in Java. But what actual programs could you write in 280 characters, fizz buzz? Sure you could wr...

HyperNeutrino

I saw the CMC; looks interesting, though I don't understand it.

muddyfish

Does anyone have experience with removing .pyd files that are loaded? I'm getting a weird error from it

(python)

HyperNeutrino

like you want to rm *.pyd? :P

muddyfish

I want to remove them from within the script

HyperNeutrino

2:01 PM

ah ok

muddyfish

print "Unloading SSL Module"
ssl_filename = ssl._ssl.__file__
dll = ctypes.CDLL(ssl_filename)
if ssl_filename.endswith("pyd"):
    _ctypes.FreeLibrary(dll._handle)
    _ctypes.FreeLibrary(dll._handle)
else:
    _ctypes.dlclose(dll._handle)
    _ctypes.dlclose(dll._handle)
print "Deleting current version..."
with open(os.path.join(renpy.config.gamedir, "modloader", "modtools_files.json")) as json_f:
    modtools_files = json.load(json_f)
for rel_path in modtools_files:
    fullpath = os.path.join(renpy.config.gamedir, rel_path)

^ what I have so far

Adám

@LeakyNun No. Maybe you can give an example?

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino That's how I made 2Deorstv, before deleting it due to the number of bugs :P

muddyfish

And I get Process finished with exit code -1073741819 (0xC0000005)

Adám

Also, I'm frantically trying to come up with two more code golf challenges for the APL tournament.

muddyfish

2:03 PM

No exception raised at all

Adám

Luckily, Lembik's old challenge has inspired me to one.

HyperNeutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing ah ok :P yeah once I get home I'm moving it onto my laptop to continue development but I need to move it back to TIO to work on it during my free period at school :P

which is why I can't have multiple files rip

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám How about the first (and only) challenge here? 'Twas fun to try :P

HyperNeutrino

I wonder: could someone make a language interpreter (for something not brainf**k like) in a golflang? (I guess I should ask "has anyone" because it's definitely possible)

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino ;# isn't technically "brainfuck-like", so a lot of users here have :P

HyperNeutrino

2:06 PM

ಠ_ಠ

Leaky Nun

@Adám the set of polynomials with natural coefficients come with an order P,<=

HyperNeutrino

I meant brainf**k-like as in really easy to implement

Leaky Nun

The natural numbers also come with an order N,<=

the challenge is to disregard the order of the natural numbers

and come up with a new order $

such that (N,$) and (P,<=) have an order-preserving bijection

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino Jelly could be an interesting language to implement a basic stack based language in, given the function-like usage of links

HyperNeutrino

mhm

Leaky Nun

2:07 PM

@Adám is it clearer now?

HyperNeutrino

For the CG "Hackathon" I had ÆmƤ>Ẹ¬ in Jelly which ties yours :P

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino Ẹ hadn't been implemented then, so non-competing

HyperNeutrino

wait really ._.

it's that new of an atom?

but whatever, not any is the same as all not

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, Ẹ is irritatingly new

HyperNeutrino

(except maybe empty lists... hmmmm)

@cairdcoinheringaahing I'm surprised at how long it took for someone to implement that ._.

also why does 05ab1e not have arithmetic mean builtin

caird coinheringaahing

2:12 PM

@HyperNeutrino Also does it work for empty lists?

HyperNeutrino

good question

Adám

@LeakyNun Yes. Now I understand. You want us to write the bijection function. Got it. Isn't your first of this class of challenges.

HyperNeutrino

too lazy to go check :P

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino On a phone, can't check :P

HyperNeutrino

:P

caird coinheringaahing

2:14 PM

adds one to the tally of :P messages by Hyper

Leaky Nun

@Adám no, I want you to write the order!

I'm surprised we haven't had a question on cyclotomic polynomials

I'd ask it later

HyperNeutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing ಠ_ಠ are you still counting

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino Please, I have a life (kinda)

HyperNeutrino

says while on TNB /s

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino Yeah, I'm trying to cut back my PPCG/TNB usage to a couple of hours max per day :P

HyperNeutrino

2:28 PM

ah ok :P

> couple of hours

2 days ago, by caird coinheringaahing

Notice: In ~40 minutes, I'm leaving PPCG and never coming back. (Well for a week) preemptive o/

so...

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino Yeah, that failed. I'm not actually losing any productivity though, which is why I'm still allowing myself to chat :P:

HyperNeutrino

ah ok :P

> not losing any productivity

said everyone ever while losing all productivity

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino Just shows how little work I was doing before :DD

HyperNeutrino

:P

(+1 :Ps)

omg google translate is so useless I tried to translate "I ran" into French (J'ai couru) and it translated it as "Iran" (the country)

like if I wanted the country I would type the country...

And also "bride du rou" is translated from chinese as "bai2 ri4 de du2 rou4" (daytime poisonous meat) but really it's just parking boot in french

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino My french may not be very good, but it's "rou" king?

HyperNeutrino

2:33 PM

(then again, we did spell it incorrectly; it's meant to be "bride de roue", but still...)

@cairdcoinheringaahing roi

caird coinheringaahing

ಠ_ಠ Keep in mind I'm doing a GCSE in french. I'm going to do great :P

HyperNeutrino

GCSE?

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino Exams at the end of secondary school

HyperNeutrino

ok

caird coinheringaahing

I really want to flag something, just to see the number of users I can bring in :P (Not actually going to do it, I know the rules)

HyperNeutrino

2:38 PM

ಠ_ಠ

don't even mention that because if someone flagged something random right now everyone would suspect it was you (at least, I would)

Downgoat

> with CSS and jQuery (no JavaScript)

yes jQuery is not JS

New Main Posts

0

Q: Output an arbitrarily large cell in brainf***

Similar to Zero an arbitrarily large cell in Brainf***, your task is to output an arbitrarily large non-negative number in BF. The program with the lowest space complexity wins. For example, if your program requires a constant amount of zero cells, the space complexity would be O(1). If your pro...

caird coinheringaahing

CMC: Given a string, double each character in the string. Example: test => tteesstt

Leaky Nun

@cairdcoinheringaahing Jelly, 1 byte: Ḥ

caird coinheringaahing

@LeakyNun How about without abusing undefined behaviour? I have 1 byte

Leaky Nun

2:43 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing ż

Adám

2:58 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing APL, 3 bytes: 2∘/

CMC: Given a string and a number, replicate each character to as many as specified by the number. Example: test 3 → ttteeesssttt

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám Just a guess, but APL, 2 bytes: ∘/?

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám jelly, 1 byte: x

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing Nope. Just / (it is called replicate). The ∘ composes the left argument with the dyad to form a new monad.

@cairdcoinheringaahing APL primitives are always only one character.

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám What's a primitive?

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing A built-in which isn't a utility (they have English names prefixed with ⎕) or a service (they have integer names postfixed by ⌶).

@cairdcoinheringaahing Atoms and Quicks in Jelly lingo. Verbs and Adverbs in J lingo. Functions and Operators in APL lingo.

Neil

3:14 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Charcoal, 5 bytes: ＦＳ⁺ιι

DJMcMayhem

@cairdcoinheringaahing V, 5 bytes: Ó./&&

Or òälll

Erik the Outgolfer

wait can't you do òä3l?

DJMcMayhem

@EriktheOutgolfer The first l is an argument to the ä command. I could do òäl2l but that doesn't end up saving bytes.

Erik the Outgolfer

oh

Neil

@Adám Charcoal, 6 bytes: ＦθＦＩηι

DJMcMayhem

3:20 PM

òä3l will never terminate

Neil

CMC: Given a string, repeat each character by its index (both 0 and 1 indexing are acceptable, please state which in your answer) in the string

caird coinheringaahing

@Neil Jelly, 2 bytes: xJ (1-indexing)

Leaky Nun

@cairdcoinheringaahing damn, I was about to do it

caird coinheringaahing

@LeakyNun Hehe, I leaky'ed Leaky :DDDD

Leaky Nun

@Neil Pyth, 4 bytes: s*VU (0-indexing)

@cairdcoinheringaahing I thought "to leaky" means to do a challenge in 10 languages

HyperNeutrino

3:30 PM

how do you leaky

caird coinheringaahing

@LeakyNun Meh, still happy at FGITW'ing you :P

Neil

7 bytes in Charcoal I think

Adám

@Neil APL, 8 bytes: {⍵/⍨⍳≢⍵} (both)

Beta Decay

@HyperNeutrino Punch a hole in the nearest water pipe

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám How can you have both?

HyperNeutrino

3:32 PM

@BetaDecay ಠ_ಠ

caird coinheringaahing

@BetaDecay ಠ_ಠ

ninja'd :P

HyperNeutrino

ninja'd

:P ninja'd

Beta Decay

ninja'd

HyperNeutrino

>9000 ninjas later

caird coinheringaahing

ninja'd. Can we stop this now? :P

Just continuing the story :D

HyperNeutrino

3:33 PM

anyway gtg now o/

Beta Decay

o7

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing Because APL lets you choose index origin. My function works with whichever is currently in effect. Try it! (⋄ is the statement separator. Statements are evaluated from left to right.)

caird coinheringaahing

@LeakyNun How short can you get x <= y in Jelly?

Leaky Nun

@cairdcoinheringaahing two bytes?

caird coinheringaahing

@LeakyNun ಠ_ಠ I remember having made one in 2 bytes, but never wrote it down, and the shortest I have now is 3 bytes (<o=). Does yours use decrement/increment?

Leaky Nun

3:46 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing well, !(x>y)?

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing meaning smaller-than-or-equal to or precedes-or-equal-to?

Leaky Nun

@Adám right

caird coinheringaahing

@LeakyNun ಠ_ಠ Why did I not think of that? Thanks

@Adám The former

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing APL, 1 byte: ≤

Leaky Nun

CMC: precedes-or-equal-to

caird coinheringaahing

3:48 PM

@LeakyNun Example?

Adám

@LeakyNun APL, 3 bytes: ⍸ (if we are allowed any two distinct values for true and false)

DJMcMayhem

@Neil V, 6 bytes: $òÝälh

Leaky Nun

@cairdcoinheringaahing 4,5 -> true; 5,5 -> true; 3,5 -> false; 6,5 -> false

caird coinheringaahing

Nope, didn't see the second testcase

Adám

@Lembik May I borrow from your isomorph challenges for the APL codegolf tournament?

Lembik

3:56 PM

@Adám of course

what is the codegolf tournament?

Adám

9

A: Community Promotion Ads - 2017

Lembik

@Adám you seem to have posted a 5 character answer??

Neil

@LeakyNun JavaScript (ES6), 17 bytes: (a,b)=>[1,1][b-a]

caird coinheringaahing

@LeakyNun Jelly, 5 bytes: Iµ_ỊỊ

Alex K Chen

@flawr Thanks. So, can you give verbal comments on how class improves functionality/chunking in this, or say this ?

John Dvorak

4:15 PM

TIL this tag exists: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/bioinformatics

Adám

@Lembik Yes, why is that so strange?

Lembik

@Adám well.. that's not very long

Erik the Outgolfer

@LeakyNun jelly, 2 bytes: >Ṇ

Leaky Nun

@EriktheOutgolfer fails the third testcase

Erik the Outgolfer

hmm...

hey why was that starred

Adám

4:21 PM

@Lembik Oh, I'm not using that challenge for the tournament. I just wanted to borrow some of your explaining text. The challenge will be to check whether X is isomorph with any sub-array of Y in nD.

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer Because starring custom is weird

Lembik

@Adám got you

nD == n dimensions?

Adám

@Lembik Yup. It's gotta be APLy.

Lembik

if only people had the same love for SIMD code :)

I really want to ask a SIMD challenge

Adám

@Lembik SIMD?

Lembik

4:23 PM

SIMD

Single instruction, multiple data (SIMD), is a class of parallel computers in Flynn's taxonomy. It describes computers with multiple processing elements that perform the same operation on multiple data points simultaneously. Thus, such machines exploit data level parallelism, but not concurrency: there are simultaneous (parallel) computations, but only a single process (instruction) at a given moment. SIMD is particularly applicable to common tasks like adjusting the contrast in a digital image or adjusting the volume of digital audio. Most modern CPU designs include SIMD instructions in order...

Adám

SIMD=Scottish Index of Multiple Deprivation?

Lembik

almost

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Output the Yggdrasil graph code-golf kolmogorov-complexity In Norse mythology, Yggdrasil, or the world tree, is a giant tree that spans the entire universe and connects all nine worlds of the Norse mythology together. Here, we shall take a rather liberal reinterpretation of the term "world tree...

Adám

@Lembik Luckily I don't have to worry about that. Our C guys make sure that APL uses whatever processor instructions are available to the fullest.

caird coinheringaahing

Wait, which is older, C or APL?

Adám

4:29 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing APL predates C which predates Dyalog APL.

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám So was the original APL written in Assembly?

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing Either that or in machine code.

Fun history trivia: The IBM/360 was specced in APL\360. APL\360 could only run on IBM/360. Kurt Gödel would have been upset if he had known.

@cairdcoinheringaahing It was probably written in BAL:

IBM Basic assembly language and successors

Basic Assembly Language (BAL) is the commonly used term for a low-level programming language used on IBM System/360 and successor mainframes. Originally "Basic Assembly Language" applied only to an extremely restricted dialect designed to run under control of IBM Basic Programming Support (BPS/360) on systems with only 8 KB of main memory, and only a card reader, a card punch, and a printer for input/output — thus the word "Basic". However, the full name and the initialism "BAL" almost immediately attached themselves in popular use to all assembly-language dialects on the System/360 and its...

@cairdcoinheringaahing Silly me. I forgot that I have the source code on my computer. Hang on, let me check…

@cairdcoinheringaahing Yes. It looks like BAL. 37567 lines of it.

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám Only 37567? I can write a language that uses twice that in Python :P

mınxomaτ

Yahoo basically open-sourced a critical part of their search engine: vespa.ai

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing They guys at IBM were very clever. APL\360 is a relatively small, and very consistent language. So one they defined the basic structure, each primitive probably doesn't take too much to implement.

@cairdcoinheringaahing The comments are quite humoristically written.

caird coinheringaahing

4:43 PM

@Adám Would you mind sharing a few? :P

Adám

THIS NONSENSE KEEPS USERS OF TRUE A N D SS COUNTS HAPPY

MEXIT BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám That comment could equally apply to Brexit :P

Alex K Chen

MEXIT vs BREXIT

Ninja'd

Darn

Adám

FLAG -- WE SWALLOWED SOME SYMBOLS IN THIS DIAGRAM, AND CAN'T GET OUT WITHOUT VIOLATING THE NO-BACKUP RULE BIT 0 ( A GLITCH) -- CONTROL IS NOW IN TYPEIN, NOT SYNT.  (USED BY ERR)

Alex K Chen

Ya @Dennis so why is the question on topic ?

Adám

4:47 PM

CODESTRING (NOT REALLY A TERMINAL)

@cairdcoinheringaahing Btw, IBM graciously made APL\360 open source.

Dennis

@AlexKChen It's not really different from atomic code golf, which is also on topic.

Alex K Chen

Okay, but how it is "language you define" ?

I mean, If I ask a question that starting from the difnation of naturals, prove Quadratic Reciprocity, would that be on topic ?

(An extremely hypothetical example, but still)

Adám

THIS IS GLITCH TO SUSPEND

J. Salle

@Adám those are comments from the APL implementation?

Alex K Chen

And BTW are you the owner of tio @Dennis ?

Adám

4:51 PM

@J.Salle From APL\360, yes.

Dennis

@AlexKChen I am.

Alex K Chen

Oh how coo !Thanks for creating such an useful site :thumbpu:

Adám

What does agoranomic mean?

J. Salle

Hilarious

caird coinheringaahing

I totally agree with Alex Chen. Without TIO, I'd have to actually open the Python IDLE window to code Python :P

Adám

4:53 PM

@J.Salle It means hilarious?

Dennis

@AlexKChen I didn't say it was atomic code golf, just that it's similar. I also don't think that it should be disallowed: it's an interesting, objective, well-received competition.

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám Google isn't showing any results

Adám

The code contains a collection of subroutines called "The Agoranomic Routines".

J. Salle

No, I meant the comments are hilarious. agora means now in Portuguese or something like open spaces in Latin

Potato44

@Adám Agora Nomic is an online game of Nomic, well at least that is what I know it as

Adám

4:55 PM

 CR    6,7                 DID WE COLLECT ANY GARBAGE AT ALL -- 85600000
 BNE   GC18                YES. QUIT WITH SATISFACTION.         86000000

J. Salle

Yeah Nomic is that game that you can change rules during gameplay isn't it?

Erik the Outgolfer

@Dennis plus, it's about optimizing ;p

Potato44

yes that game

Adám

TITLE 'A P L M O T H E R - INITIATION OF APL.'

Erik the Outgolfer

@LeakyNun how about this

jelly, 4 bytes: I=Ḃ$

(full program)

Leaky Nun

4:56 PM

nice

Erik the Outgolfer

or, function with reversed arguments: _⁼Ḃ$

Adám

DC V(APLXREF) THIS IS EASIER ON THE EYEBALLS C045

Alex K Chen

niche

*nice

J. Salle

@Adám I wonder what the "harder on the eyeballs" code looked like

Adám

SEE IF DAUGHTER TERMINATED.…GIVE UP IF SO.…MOVE LIST TO MOTHER.

7

KEEP DISPATCHING PRIORITY OF DAUGHTER SLIGHTLY LOWER THAN MOTHER SO THAT MOTHER WILL ALWAYS BE RUN IN PREFERENCE.

caird coinheringaahing

4:58 PM

@Adám Ok, that one is star-worthy, if just to confuse people who have just popped into the room :P

Adám

L 1,APLSGENE APLSUP GENEOLOGY.

L 11,ACURRENT XENOPHOBIC SVC ROUTINE.

J. Salle

rofl when was this written?

Adám

@J.Salle COPYRIGHT IBM CORP. 1969, 1970

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