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2:00 PM
Since the SE team seems opposed to not going through with that design, I would prefer either it be opt-in or that it's only for SO/M.SO
@JanDvorak I'm failing to parse that sentence
"They know they shouldn't do it, but they still do" is what I understand from it
Sounds too much like the Joel's stand thing
@Fatalize How clever does one need to be to see this?
2:11 PM
Stack Overflow is stackoverflow.com? mind = blown
I came into the room expecting to see exactly these types of negative comments and I was not disappointed. Give it a few weeks and you'll like it.
@Rainbolt More clever than the people who think PPCG is SO
@Rainbolt You think people who post completely offtopic things on PPCG all the time look at this?
They search something on Google and end up here, they certainly didn't read where they were
That's not the right question. The question is: Do I think they look at it any more than they look at the other banners? No.
@Rainbolt I don't know that I'll like it, but I'll probably be used to it enough to tolerate it
2:13 PM
Also why the hell does the search bar expands when you click in it
and more importantly why does it expend TO THE LEFT when we use a left to right language
uhhh what?
19 mins ago, by Fatalize
I have "Software Engineer to help fighting terrorism" in my featured list in Jobs
You've been ninja'd
2:15 PM
"Both previous tests showed great results: users shown the new top nav clicked navigation links 143% more than those shown the current design"
Laughable; that's because they misclick all the time
I do wonder how many of those clicks were because the top nav bar is sticky
I clicked all of the navigation buttons trying to figure out which one is for the review queues
You only have to read the hover text, obviously
so ergonomic
And mobile users can just suffer, apparently
They already do
2:18 PM
Yeah, the mobile app is pretty not-great
Can't even do reviews on it
You can't see deleted submissions, can't see vote counts, can't arrange answers in any way other than by votes, ...
Use the app
I'm talking about the app :P
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

MarioMathematical Creativity At our workplace we are so creative that sometimes we decide that today the number 2=9, 0=231 or 67=2... just for the sake of it. So for that day everyone in the workplace must consider that fact. Your task is to write a full program or function that takes as input today...

2:26 PM
@KritixiLithos Yeah it still has a lot of work needed before it's comparable to the actual site
@Riker /r/shittyaskscience is really my new favourite=)
"Did NASA invent thunderstorms to cover up the sound of space battles?"
Is it ok to have programs give invalid output if terminated before completion (assuming it is meant to finish)?
I don't think so, I think we have a consensus somewhere
@muddyfish You mean like if someone does a ctrl-c on it?
@AdmBorkBork yeah
2:38 PM
If you don't allow a program to run to completion, I don't know why you would expect to get correct output
That doesn't seem like the kind of thing we need a meta discussion on - that should be common sense
Most of mine say foo/bar.rb:42 in `block in <main>': Interrupt
cool. I just added a feature to pyke so it doesn't end up with no output if terminated early (like when the auto-timeout occurs)
> On two occasions I have been asked, "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. — Charles Babbage
2:51 PM
@flawr yeah it's epic
I still like dndgreentext though
3:12 PM
Just lied on a test for a point
I said that I love econ and personal finance
Wrote it up top
I <3 $
Does that count?
@AdmBorkBork I♥$ is 1 byte less
tfw stackoverflow gets a new design before codegolf
I<3$ is 2 bytes less
Can't send images in Mobile
3:19 PM
Have we had a challenge based on finding the largest number of n digits in a grid that is x by x digits?
My search-fu is failing me.
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

ErikMilking the cows When I was a kid, we used to play a card game called "Milking the cows". I have no idea why it was called that, as it had nothing to do with said activity, but whatever. For months we would play furiously, seeing who was best at this game. It wasn't until years later that I rea...

@AdmBorkBork Dangit, this one by Helka is pretty close to what I was thinking. His only goes in cardinal directions and in a straight line. I was thinking of allowing full 8-way movement on the search so long as you didn't repeat a digit.
Would that be different enough to not be a dupe?
Q: Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release

Luis MendoMany sound synthesizers define the envolope of the sound (the way loudness changes with time) by means of four parameters, as represented in the following figure from Wikipedia: Attack time (A): time taken for the envelope to reach its maximum level, starting from zero, when the key is first pr...

3:36 PM
Any of you read SO's blog post on their new design? Some of the statistics they have in here seem unreal stackoverflow.blog/2017/02/…
@flawr ELI5 taylor series?
Anyone know of a ceaser cypher challenge?
Q: Caesar Shifting

muddyfishA Caesar shift is probably something we're all familiar with. (You might be even doing it as a homework task. If so, please don't copy these answers, your teacher almost certainly doesn't want anything like the answers here.) Just in case you aren't, a Caesar shift is a very simple form of cip...

Imagine if we got the bottom one
3:46 PM
Code-Golf 3 confirmed.
hi all.. I have a programming question! :)
I would like to test the speed of this small C loop using different compiler flags and compilers bpaste.net/show/58d6d91f1827 . What's a good way to do it or could anyone give me a hand kindly?
@flawr just watched cat + toasters: 10/10 there should be an entire subreddit for that
@Riker /r/catsvstechnology might be close
4:04 PM
@wat That edit was grossly unnecessary
I wish I could delete that question
which one?
The stupid avocado challenge.
@quartata is there another one?
Add that to the list of feature-request of the site
I mean, it's an OK challenge if you take the context out.
4:06 PM
I rembemer at least 2 that have been deleted
@muddyfish this one
Because of stupid memes.
Lingering self-vote?
It's really pissing me off at this point.
@JanDvorak No, the user was deleted long before that vote showed up.
4:08 PM
More importantly why does it have 14 stars
Besides they couldn't have voted to undelete it
I stared it so I can get a quick link to it
for conversations such as these
I have never favorited anything
Don't undelete votes expire?
maybe my question was too boring :(
@Lembik No it's just that people in this room are too consumed by memes to entertain programming conversation. You might want to check this out
I like this library for microbenchmarks, but I'm not aware of any good tools for testing across different compilers: github.com/google/benchmark
That you'll have to do by hand.
@quartata Yep
@quartata is there a more strict set of rules that are expected there?
@quartata Or the people currently here don't know the answer
@quartata I don't mind juts recompiling by hand.
@muddyfish No. We're currently relying on people not knowing about it and naturally discovering it, which is why I now kind of regret mentioning it and it inevitably ending up on the starboard.
4:14 PM
@quartata that link took me to a chat but I am not sure which part is relevant?
@quartata (I didn't star for precisely that reason)
@muddyfish That's possible, although my current grumpy mood is leaning towards the other conclusion more strongly
@quartata oh that's all C++. Hmm...
@Lembik Yeah, but it's not a huge deal. You can pretty much copy-paste the C++ boilerplate and use your regular C function for the actual operation
@quartata gulp :)
C++ scares me
4:15 PM
@Lembik I suppose the obvious way to start then is with -O1, -O2, -O3 and -Os.
I can remove it from the star board
@quartata yes.. I want to compare clang and gcc too
(I stared it)
you can only unstar stuff for a certain period of time
I just unstar it
4:16 PM
@Lembik I think the most obvious optimization that will happen here is that the loop will be unrolled. That'll happen on -O2 even so
@quartata It's a little odder than that. godbolt.org/g/HRv4TD
Trying to figure how to parse Fluff
@quartata I want to see which is really faster
@ChristopherPeart you actually called it that?
4:19 PM
@muddyfish I mean why not?
@ChristopherPeart no reason. There wasn't really a reason to call it that either apart from me telling you to
I liked the name
@quartata it feels like this shouldn't be so hard!
@Lembik huh
"huh" has too many possible interpretations :)
4:22 PM
@Lembik Huh?
@Lembik generally implies confusion
@muddyfish More curiosity in this case
aha.. what is the main point of curiosity?
maybe there is a ppcg challenge hiding in here somewhere :)
Trying to figure out how to parse Fluff
4:24 PM
Both appear to unroll the loop but GCC is doing weird jumps. It's tough to read the assembly so I'm not sure why.
@quartata I think gcc is trying to align stuff
which I suspect is not worth the cost
@ChristopherPeart write a spec and some example's of how it should unwind if it's particularly complex
@quartata basically I want to report a bug :)
@muddyfish Unwind?
@ChristopherPeart if it's like most golf langs, each character is a token?
and they have arguments to each other
so creating a call tree I guess
Pyke for example has a very simple parser in that regard
the code is literally parsed like a tree and the next character decides if a branch should be terminated or created
for example some simple code in tree form:
    "hello world"Fp)q


     hello world"
    "            F  q
where each line represents a seperate branch and the central one is the main branch
4:31 PM
That's how pyke does it for example
more complex languages use grammars instead of trees but I don't know of a golf lang that uses one
they tend to be more verbose I've found
then the main program runs all the nodes on the main branch, which in turn do stuff with their branches
the F is a for loop and executes the stuff in it's branch as code
Whereas the " just adds it's branch to the stack
I think this is how most stack based golf languages work
Pyth is a little different in that there's more implicit ending of branches, given that it's code is an actual tree and the commands have a certain arity
Python however uses a full tokeniser with grammar, splitting each piece of code into tokens and then the grammar looks at the tokens and works out how to create a valid tree from them using preset rules
@Lembik doing a benchmark with GCC right now for you
here is the grammar for python 3 for example
4:47 PM
@quartata thanks!!
@muddyfish That's actually a lot smaller than I expected it to be. I wonder what C's looks like.
@muddyfish now find their security model :)
i.e. what is allowed to segfault
clue... there isn't one
@Lembik it's not hard to segfault python
@muddyfish right.. but it's harder to work out which segfaults should be called a bug and which not
this should be specified
4:53 PM
How do I put a tag in a meta answer? (Sandbox)
@ChristopherPeart use [tag:name]
Or [meta-tag:name] if you're in main and need a meta tag.
@quartata I have to go for a few hours but I will check back in then.
@Lembik I don't think SO Chat supports that command.
5:03 PM
@AdmBorkBork which command? Checking in?
oh it's gone!
What was it supposed to do?
it was supposed to call quartata
i.e. it was a typo
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Christopher PeartThere is an XKCD for that If you ever are on this website much. You will see a comment with a XKCD link. The challenge is when given the title of an XKCD (check the archive), XKCD comic number, or a mouse over text return the URL and mouse over text of the comic. Rules Standard loopholes Inp...

5:06 PM
@Lembik Oh, I thought you were going for Vim
How do I see deleted questions?
Every time I try I get a 404
Get moar rep
Have enough rep.
5:07 PM
Define "enough"
Go to your account and click the 'priveleges' thing
> privelages
I'm trying to fix it but I can't get the red line to appear
Why is "trusted user" above "moderator tools"
5:08 PM
I think that's better? I'm not sure.
Shouldn't it be the other way around?
Yes it should.
@Lembik Yeah, I suddenly like this library a lot less now that it's giving me a super cryptic error
@wat Most of the "moderator tools" stuff isn't things-to-do, it's informational.
@AdmBorkBork OK, I see
5:13 PM
Here's the three most-commented questions
Java question: will foo(i++) evaluate foo with the current value of i and then increment, or first increment then evaluate foo?
Q: Challenge about advacado

quartataInspired by this. No avocados were harmed in the making of this challenge. Hello I have challenge I need help juic an avocado so I need program to tell me how long to juic avocad for Observe this ASCII art avocado: ###### # # # #### # # # p# # ## #### # # # ###...

@wat You shouldn't have to ask that question.
@quartata yes, ok, it was a joke edit, but it fits with the spirit of the question
It also fits the style of one of the answers
5:17 PM
Joke edits fit with no question.
> Edits are expected to be substantial and to leave the post better than you found it. Common reasons for edits include:
•To fix grammar and spelling mistakes
•To clarify the meaning of the post (without changing that meaning)
•To include additional information only found in comments, so all of the information relevant to the post is contained in one place
• To correct minor mistakes or add updates as the post ages
•To add related resources or hyperlinks
That edit did none of those, and actively went against several of them.
What's a popular SO chat room where I can give simple java help?
Clearly all the correctly spelled avocados were mistakes so he was just fixing them.
wait, avocado is spelt with an o? You guys are so evil that I learned the spelling wrong
5:18 PM
@muddyfish how did you learn it?
I though it was avacado
so did i
and that's how I pronounce it
5:19 PM
@Pavel Have you tried out a simple test?
I don't have JDK on this computer.
okay, so the local county's office decided our street needed more trees. so they sent us a letter saying "We want to place a camphor tree in our front yard. Please respond with a good reason if you don't want us too."
we have 5 camphor trees in this yard
@Pavel TIO has Java, both 8 and 9
2 of them are less than 20 feet away from the proposed location of the new tree
I just got 8192 in 2048!
5:20 PM
Yeah, but boilerplates are long...
I'll do that
@MistahFiggins I got 4 in 1!
@Riker obviously 5 isn't enough
so we asked for a different tree (chinese pistache)
and they said sure
so I wake up this morning, go out to turn on the sprinklers (turned off bc it rained)
@Riker that makes me feel happy
@Riker and they planted a camphor tree?
5:21 PM
they planted a really scraggly looking camphor tree in the same spot.
this is about 10 feet from another one. right next to the curb too
@Pavel According to this, which matches my expectation, foo is evaluated with a and then a is incremented.
this will absolutely destroy the street with it's roots, never mind that it can't grow in that shade
people are freaking stupid
@Lembik I feel like I'm doing something wrong because the benchmark is sitting at a consistent 2 nanoseconds
5:22 PM
@AdmBorkBork Why is everyone's google-fu better than mine ;-;
wait @Riker so you mean something like this?
@Riker well they solved the first problem by introducing the second
the ironic part: they planted the other tree also
@wat is that?
and it will still destroy the street
just much later
5:23 PM
@MistahFiggins nm
@Pavel Knowing that a++ is "post-increment" and ++a is "pre-increment" helps.
@wat oh I get it now...
i.e., knowing the terms to search for
@AdmBorkBork ty
@Lembik Do you want me to try increasing the input size perhaps?
I just did two 64-element arrays of random floats from 0 to 100
I compiled with -Ofast -Wno-int-to-pointer-cast -fpermissive -std=c++11 if you're curious
5:27 PM
Apparently avacado means someone who is homosexual
I'm not sure urban dictionary is a credible source of information
@BusinessCat not really but it was the first result on google
@Riker Approximation of a (differentiable) function(at a given point) with a polynomial of a given degree. If you allow an "infinite" degree, you get the taylor series, and if you cut the series off after (n+1) summands, you get the taylor polynomial of degree n.
For example a tangent of a function through a poitn is a taylor polynomial of degree 1. (I.e. the value at that point and the derivatives at that point are equal no matter if you take the approximation or the original function.)
Oh whoa Google Spanner is in beta.
@mınxomaτ Wait, what's Google Spanner?
> Web Page Blocked

Access to the web page you were trying to visit has been blocked in accordance with company policy. Please contact your system administrator if you believe this is in error.
... fak
Ugh, stupid Clang. Who cares if I'm casting a pointer to an int, I know just enough to severely injure myself
How do I make this go away usually GCC shuts up with the right options but I can't find them for Clang
Don't cast a pointer to an int.
@flawr ah, makes more sense
#pragma clang diagnostic push
#pragma clang diagnostic ignored "all"
Which is probably wrong because as mentioned earlier, google hates me.
5:44 PM
@mınxomaτ I know I know
@quartata No repro for me
What's the code?
@quartata Why are you using Clang in the first place?
@Pavel Maybe Mac?
@wat Mac is POSIX though, so it should have GCC, right?
5:46 PM
@Lembik if you're using eval from untrusted input say a string retrieved from input(), eval('eval((lambda x: 1).__code__.__class__(0,0,1,2, 67,b\'d\\x01\\x00d\\x00\\x00l\\x00\\x00}\\x00\\x00|\\x00\\x00j\\x01\\x00d\\x01\\x00\\x83\\x01\\x0‌​0\\x01d\\x00\\x00S\',(None, -1, 0),("ctypes", "string_at"),("ctypes",), "EVAL","EVIL",1, b"\\\\x00\\\\x01\\\\x0c\\\\x00"))') will segfault python 3
Mac is not an OS. macOS is. macOS uses clang.
 ~ $ gcc
clang: error: no input files
 ✘ | ~ $ gcc -v
Configured with: --prefix=/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/usr --with-gxx-include-dir=/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.12.sdk/usr/include/c++/4.2.1
Apple LLVM version 8.0.0 (clang-800.0.42.1)
Target: x86_64-apple-darwin15.6.0
Thread model: posix
InstalledDir: /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin
Using the simplest example of casting a pointer to an int, I get no warnings or errors from clang
@Mego Yep.
clang 3.8 for reference
Hey, SO got a new UI
5:50 PM
@Downgoat does Cheddar have a way of getting every character but the last one from a string? Head() doesn't seem to support negatives in a convenient way.
@mınxomaτ Same-ish, 3.8.1 here
@Pavel Because that was the whole point of what Lembik was wondering about
That is why is GCC doing weird stuff and Clang not
@Mego I'm using 3.6 so it must be that.'
@quartata What GCC version are you using?
What's your code? What's the specific warning clang is printing?
Code is too long to post here. It's just a simple cast.
2 messages moved to Trash
5:52 PM
If it's "just a simple" cast make a small example then.
For GCC I just turned on -fpermissive
@quartata Any reason for this ancient version?
@wat You've been told not to do purposeful mistyping because it's annoying and it obscures your messages. I see the lesson didn't stick.
int main(void) {
  float* x = new float[64];

  int p = (int) x;
@mınxomaτ Ubuntu. 'Nuff said.
One of the downsides of LTS is that I have to put up with ancient repos.
Soon that's 3 versions behind.
5:54 PM
GCC 4.8.5 is only a year and half old though.
That's a century in software years.
@quartata No warning in clang or GCC (5).
@wat Doesn't matter.
@mınxomaτ I consider that to be a bad thing, actually.
5:56 PM
If you use any casts in C++, you are doing a bad thing.
Anyways so what's the equivalent of -fpermissive in Clang so I can get my clearly decrepit compiler to stop complaining
@MistahFiggins yeah and it's awful
@mınxomaτ except it really doesn't matter in this case
@quartata What's the warning?
cast from pointer to smaller type 'int' loses information
5:57 PM
@mınxomaτ std::dynamic_cast would like to have a word
@quartata Use the intptr types.
@quartata Well there's the issue. Use size_t
Or the intptr types
I get it I get it
I don't have a choice in this case
int considered harmful

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