The Nineteenth Byte

For that reason

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

But, shouldn't there just be a way to actually delete messages. Instead of a dubious workaround?

People could actually trash talk in that room

Mods can delete messages but

El'endia Starman

@RohanJhunjhunwala There is. It's just preferable in most cases to move them to Trash.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

12:29 AM

@El'endiaStarman oh ok.

It's just a misleading when your message was mixed in with some trash messages and you get "invited to talk in trash"

El'endia Starman

@RohanJhunjhunwala Yeah, it's an unfortunate necessity when removing the primary offenders would just leave a bunch of messages that make no sense.

@mınxomaτ And hypnotic.

@TùxCräftîñg ;_; y u haet smaltlak and C

@quartata that box builtin in jolf finally came in handy :D

@RohanJhunjhunwala it also removes the messages, and removing their vertical height

@ConorO'Brien :O :O :O you outgolfed Jelly by more than half!!

@Downgoat ik :D

tfw when the grace period just ends and you realized you made a typo

12:41 AM

@ConorO'Brien blame-claws? :P

> Thanks to lastresort and TuukkaX for reminding me that golfers should be sneaky and saving 3 bytes!

@Downgoat haha probably

Could we please get an official response on this? Is there a protocol to directly reach out to a community dev and get this either approved or rejected? — Rohan Jhunjhunwala Sep 14 at 22:38

don't mods have a special CM-hotline?

idk

pls halp, my super-complicated wordpress fixing script isn't working:

$ cat ./fixwordpress
#!/usr/bin/env sh
sudo systemctl restart mariadb.service

maybe I need to add a reboot...

;_; didn't work pls halp

why are you using wordpress?

1:02 AM

because its good

it's really the database that is borked

ah

@mınxomaτ you have used OVH's VPSes before, right?

mınxomaτ

Yes.

2/7s of that sentence was abbreviation

@mınxomaτ have you used mariadb database them?

mınxomaτ

1:07 AM

No.

oh, oh D: I don't want to attempt to switch and have database crashing on OVH too

could just be OS though... maybe I should try Debain

mınxomaτ

And by the way, if you are renting a VPS just to host Worpress, you're wasting resources left and right. Worpress is not good for blogging. Wordpress has mutated into a complex enterprisey CMS and a security blackhole. Setup a Ghost blog (or heck, even Jekyll) and live happily ever after.

Q: On using multiple languages for a singular code golf submission

@mınxomaτ wordpress is one of the things i use vps for but i run servers/projects from it all the time.

New Meta Posts

0

I was wondering if it were possible to use multiple languages in the same submission. Not a polyglot, but using each of the languages. I have two thoughts on this. One language invokes the other. Let's say we have a Ruby + JavaScript solution. Then, you could have, say, puts %x(node a) in run.r...

discussion

@mınxomaτ mainly plugins is why i wordpress. Most other ones look like a pain to add plugins or they use HTML markup

1:31 AM

@Downgoat > y u haet smalltalk and C

I thought you hated both as well as ObjC

@NewMetaPosts This is already done frequently with a combination of bash and another language (usually Perl or aed)

Helka Homba

Why does Youtube not show the path to the file uploading so you can double check it's the right one? -.-

That's why I usually upload as unlisted or private first

Regarding "multiple languages in one submission" it's more of an issue of finding a "fair handicap" for such answers. For example, normal multi-file submissions cost an extra 1 byte per file after the first.

@quartata please post the OP when talking about his P, as said OP would like to be notified :P

@PhiNotPi yeah, I thought that might be the case

@quartata how is it down there?

Although, a second issue might be multi-language answers out-competing single-language answers.

1:45 AM

which would be fine, as I propose it be considered it's own language group, such as "JavaScript + jQuery"

I think I did

@quartata waaatt no????

Háskólakórinn - Heyr, himnasmiður

2:31 AM

►

2:51 AM

I know PulseAudio supports remote audio servera meaning that audio can be played over X11 forwarding but do any other Linux sound things do this?

If there was a way to do it with CoreAudio too that would be great

@Doorknob Oh hey what do you use for sound?

I'm actually considering ditching PulseAudio when Iswitch to Arch, was curious what you used

@Downgoat Oh huh I thought you didn't like objective c

Most people don't :P

@quartata For something called "objective" it sure conjures a lot of opinions.

ha

@Mego Found another bug. = doesn't play well with O's map objects and r's range objects

I have to # everything to get comparisons to work

3:10 AM

@quartata i mean i dont like it but i dont hate it, it has cool parts

4:06 AM

O_o TNB is aufully quiet today

@Downgoat noise Noise nOIse NOISE NOIse NoiSe

4:18 AM

1

The Esolangs IDE is coming along nicely.

@PhiNotPi Esolangs IDE?

We're coding an IDE "from scratch" chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/45321/esolangs-ide-room

will it integrate with... that website that does interpretation and code sharing for esolangs?

@PhiNotPi did you see cnfrnc.net ?

@Sparr no, but thanks, that sounds really cool!

Unfortunately I live 2,300 miles away from San Francisco (Eastern US).

Sp3000

Conference sounds interesting but I'll probably be too far away :/

4:29 AM

Would there be any way for me to participate?

Videoconferencing?

Yeah, that could be an option. I'm sure that there's a bunch of PPCG members in the same boat as me.

Yeah. We're happy to spend time on code golf, but balk at spending money.

@Sparr We're planning on adding a feature that generates TIO permalinks.

Also, what's the process for setting up a conference?

We would very likely video stream the presentations

and multiple people have already said they want to host such an event in Europe. I expect that's more likely if mine is successful.

@PhiNotPi convince a hundred people with something in common to show up in the same place at the same time.

I've been to "unconference" model conferences where that really was the bulk of the effort. The actual presentations were planned by attendees, not officially

for cnfrnc I'd plan to do a bit more than that.

4:46 AM

I assume with video presentations there'll have to be some kind of coordination and a decent amount of planning, right?

not really. just realtime streams over twitch or vimeo or youtube or facebook or whatever

that works even if the presentations are entirely unplanned

The roguelike conference I was at last weekend, which inspired me, had 200 people paying about $25 each to attend. On a $5k budget it's possible we'd fly in a couple of presenters from europe

On a scale of 1 to "I want to present something," I really want to present something. This is cool.

@Sparr Anybody you have in mind, at all?

I don't really know what "big names" we can expect to attend.

Actually, I wonder how big the target audience is.

Anonymous

5:04 AM

@Sherlock9 I'll fix it. Do you want to make an issue on GitHub so you can be credited?

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

What "level/complexity" do you think a typical presentation will be? Sorry for all the questions (almost none of which you have answers for), I'm just curious.

Anonymous

I could possibly do a presentation at that conference (over video chat, since flying to SF (again) isn't going to be possible for me anytime soon) :P

New Sandboxed Posts

0

Periodic Pillbox Problem code-golf Pill-popping Patty is prescribed to take a particular pharmaceutical every P days. Presently, Phil has punked Patty's pill-box, punching holes in particular weekday's plastic pockets. Patty proceeds to plan pills P days apart whenever possible, but places pills...

Anonymous

Oh wait, I might actually be in the SF area for a few weeks in the next month or so

If I were to present something, it would have to be the Quest-For-Tetris stuff or something of similar size/complexity.

5:14 AM

@PhiNotPi @MartinEnder comes to mind as someone I'd try to fly over, if he's up for it and wants to talk at people

also, having people do their presentations from remote locations could work, but that's really unusual.

at a 200 person roguelike conference I talked to about 40 people. 7 of them were interested in esolangs.

I suspect 100-200 people would show up for this conference.

level of complexity would be entirely varied. some deep stuff, some simple, some in between.

Anonymous

I'd probably present stuff on Seriously/Actually and DataBot, and language design in general.

Hmm... I wonder how difficult it would be to have remote presentations.

I'd be looking for some presentations on specific languages. Maybe a panel on design in general. Definitely some contests.

A real-time language-design contest would be epic.

3

@PhiNotPi not difficult, technically. just requires contingency plans; people far away are less reliable for a lot of reasons.

Anonymous

5:18 AM

I have lots of ideas for various languages I want to make bouncing around in my head at any given moment

On the other hand, I never have any ideas

Anonymous

For example, my next language I plan on starting (and probably never finishing) will be a LISPier LISP

Anonymous

Taking the idea of list-based programming entirely too far

@ASCII-only Whaddya call this? ;P

@DLosc Wasn't my idea

Anonymous

5:21 AM

Idea for cnfrnc: language design contest where various design paradigms are chosen at random

@ASCII-only Okay, you never have the original seeds of ideas, then. But you have been contributing plenty of ideas.

@Mego LISPier LISP sounds fun, what makes it LISPier?

Anonymous

@DLosc More lists. Nothing but lists. It's lists all the way down.

So, e.g., integers are implemented as lists too?

Anonymous

Yep, single-element lists

Anonymous

There is no 1, only [1]

5:24 AM

Hm, but then you still have an actual integer type.

Anonymous

Yeah that's why it's still an idea - I haven't worked out all the kinks :P

Why not have 0 be (), 1 be (()), 2 be ((())), etc?

Anonymous

That's horrifying and brilliant

:D

Then you have a command that takes two lists and nests one inside the other, so (()) and ((())) becomes ((((()))))

and there you go, addition

5:27 AM

Hm, I think someone already beat you to it, though: esolangs.org/wiki/Parenthesis_Hell

Anonymous

In regards to my randomized language paradigm design choices idea:

Anonymous

memory model, layout, type system, extra feature

Anonymous

@DLosc That's a bit too far. I don't want the code to be solely made of empty lists, but I want all the data to be lists.

@Mego So, LISPier but not LISPiest? ^_^

Anonymous

@DLosc LISPier but not unusable :P

5:35 AM

Unusable is a matter of opinion, though I suppose having "hell" in the name indicates something.

On the other hand, since all characters except parens are ignored, you could probably add whitespace and copious comments to make it fairly legible.

Anonymous

@DLosc It's not called "Parenthesis Hell" because of user-friendliness

3

@DLosc that's been done

@Mego If you gaze long enough into the LISP, the LISP will gaze back into you. O_O

@DLosc That's in Brain-Flak

@Mego The randomized paradigms thing could be interesting, provided the random choices pick something interesting. I can't recall seeing any object-oriented esolangs around here, for example. (Probably because they wouldn't be sufficiently golfy.)

Another entry for "extra feature": 2-dimensional

5:44 AM

do it as improv

put 3 great language designers on stage

have the audience write down language paradigms / restrictions / etc

pull 2-3 of those out of a hat, and then the panel describes how such a language would look

@Sparr Yes, I like audience participation better than random.

bonus points any time the answer is "that exactly describes [specific esolang that already exists]"

"2d language"
"stack based"
"pixels as source code"

yep, that's piet

Anonymous

That would be neat

hello

@Sparr the conference is sometime next year, right?

6:02 AM

halp anyone good at bison?

also halp i need something to do

Hey, I need your opinions, would this post be closed as a dupe of this question?

@BetaDecay Don't think so

Hm alright

It's related that's for sure.

Yeah, definitely, but people might employ different, shorter tactics for this

6:14 AM

@BetaDecay It's closely related, but there are a lot of little differences that add up: the *1.5 for capitals, including non-alphabetic characters, having to subtract 64 (or 96).

@Mego Sure. Let me write one up

@BetaDecay You posted it 9 hours ago, maybe others will give some feedback today and tomorrow.

@BetaDecay For the record: Pip, 19 bytes: ["even""odd"]@$+A*a

Actually, 18 bytes: "even""odd"(O#Σ1&I

Neat

6:27 AM

@BetaDecay hey, I have an idea. Why don't you make your challenge case insensitive, since in the other one the sum can be a float: 7.5 for example so it would be tiny bit harder to get a modulo 2.

@Mego O and Σ don't play well either :D

@Sherlock9 @DLosc How would case insensitivity affect your code?

Let me just add comment to that issue

Not at all, I think

@BetaDecay It wouldn't. The ASCII values for uc/lc are offset by an even amount, which makes no difference mod 2.

My point is to make the solutions from that other challenge require more than the %2 step.

Anonymous

6:35 AM

@Sherlock9 I'll take care of it shortly - right now, I'm experiencing the joy of programming in Java for the first time in ages

Oh I see, because the others have to account for uppercas eletters differently

exactly

Anonymous

The lack of default parameter values in Java disturbs me greatly

@Mego Godspeed, good buddy

Anonymous

@Sherlock9 Unfortunately I max out at penguinspeed

6:39 AM

@seshoumara Thanks, I've updated the post

@Mego joy?

Fair enough

Hello

yo

o

have you ever felt quite proud of an answer, maybe solved it cleverly or pushed the boundary of what you can do with that language, but then end up with a non-positive non-negative total votes?

6:52 AM

?

You got zero in a code golf?

oh, the post score!

Yeah, that always happens

edited, votes*

unless its bf

please post the post that made you feel sad because noone liked

@seshoumara Yep.

6:54 AM

I was thinking of making a square number calculator in turtlèd

Shouldn't tricho be doing all of the programming in turtlèd?

is that the third time someone made that joke now?

Also no because I don't have docs

A common ailment among esolang authors.

Anonymous

@Sherlock9 Bug nuked

You need a dog secretary to write up your esolang documentation. Get a docshund

7

@Mego Excellent! Shall we ask Dennis to pull Actually now?

Or shall I look for other bugs first?

7:03 AM

Also TBH I'm not entirely finished with the language spec

I've seen people ask Dennis to add a language to TIO. Is he the one that made that site?

Anonymous

@Sherlock9 Either or.

Anonymous

@seshoumara Yep.

Anonymous

@Dennis Pull Actually please? :)

Cool. Do you think sed could be added to that list?

7:04 AM

0

A: Implement a Truth-Machine

Turtlèd, 7 bytes Turtlèd cannot output without halting, so the truth machine writes down infinite ones, like a turing machine's implementation might, onto the grid if input is 1. !.{1r.} Explanation: ! input into string variable . write current char of stri...

I like it when turtlèd beats not stupid languages

Anonymous

Maybe. I don't know enough about sed to know if it's a "safe" (meaning no I/O other than STDIN/STDOUT/STDERR) language, and thus if it can go on TIO safely before Dennis finishes sandboxing.

@Mego Fair enough. And perhaps I should finish up your docs and debug at the same time

Anonymous

@Sherlock9 Not a bad idea :P

Has commands.txt changed since I last merged the master and docs branches?

Anonymous

I have no clue

7:07 AM

Magnificent. Is master safe to merge? Are you still in the middle of the library overhaul?

Anonymous

Master is safe

Anonymous

I haven't gotten the library feature to a satisfactory state yet, so it's not being added to master anytime soon

Duly noted. Speaking of open issues, why is TanMath's Lucas numbers issue still open?

And whatever happened to that guy?

Anonymous

@Sherlock9 It's open because I'm going to add it to a math-oriented library. It won't be closed until library support gets merged into main and the math library is created.

Anonymous

Essentially right now it's status-deferred

7:11 AM

Hi

@Mego sed can read and write a file which could be unsafe. But a small change in it's source code could be made to only allow the parrameters /dev/stdin and /dev/stdout + /dev/stderr respectively. The rest is safe.

@Mego Fair enough. I'll get back to writing docs in the middle of class :D

is there a challenge to calculate square number?

Actually, 1 byte: ²

Aug 17 at 23:23, by Leaky Nun

CMC: square a number

7:18 AM

new guy here: what is CMC?

Chat minichallenge

Chat Mini Challenge

dammit ascii only

ninja'd

ok

7:19 AM

@Sparr I'd definitely be up for it. Not 100% sure what I'd talk about but most likely using regex as a programming language.

@seshoumara Except sometimes people say CMC but it's not that trivial. In those cases I translate as Chat Mega Challenge.

well, in this CMC dc would finally win with 1 byte: v

Anonymous

CMC: create an Actually compiler or interpreter and shell for entering and running Actually code on the SNES (not serious)

no

ok, I'm going to make a square number calculator later

oops, it was square, not square root, v is wrong then

7:26 AM

my square calculator shall begin by making a square of symbols, then it will slowly take one symbol off at a time, and add one to a counter

@Sparr This sounds great. The streaming bit is great because I live in Southeast Asia and have no travel money :D

Fractran, 37 bytes, 2**n -> 7**(n**2): 15/2 1309/65 13/17 1/13 5/11 13/3 1/5

@Sparr Also as much as I'm honoured by this, if you could get someone like Chris Pressey to show up and give a talk that should definitely be your priority for using a travel budget. :)

I think probably the most complex part of the square number thing might be the decimal number part...

Golfed my Fractran square program: Fractran, 32 bytes, 17**n -> 13**(n**2): 55/17 78/35 7/2 1/7 5/3 7/11 1/5

cool!

7:40 AM

I'm sure sed can square a number in 400 bytes or so :)

:)

#define f(n)n*n

^ won't work for f(n+m) but who cares

dc: ?d*

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

15 bytes in Retina: retina.tryitonline.net/#code=LisKJCoKMQokYCRgMQox&input=NQ (8 of which are decimal -> unary -> decimal)

wait, I should stop trying to be clever. 12 bytes: retina.tryitonline.net/#code=LisKJCoKMQokYCRgMQox&input=NQ

(still 8 bytes for conversion)

Stewie Griffin

I've bumped this question a few times, have mentioned it in chat etc., but it still has 0 votes. In your opinion (anyone?), is this a boring/bad challenge? Maybe it's too hard for anyone to try, compared to the "interestingness" of it? I mean, there have been some really good, really hard challenges, but this might just be "a bit too time consuming, compared to the fun of it?

0

Build an "aesthetically pleasing" prime tree A prime tree is a tree structure that shows the prime factors of a number. In this challenge the smallest possible number must be to the left, going down from the top. As an example, the number 24 will look like this. 24 / \ % Is it OK ...

7:46 AM

successor function: l!-[*+.r_]' l[ (0'1d)(1'2d)(2'3d)(3'4d)(4'5d)(5'6d)(6'7d)(7'8d)(8'9d)(9'0l( '0))]

in turtlèd

Looks too hard

But

It always seems impossible until it's done - Nelson Mandela — Adnan Sep 11 at 16:10

@StewieGriffin it looks like it's on the upper end of what would be enjoyable to golf, but I'm pretty sure you'd get some answers

also, for your 63 example, the children of the 21 seem off? (in terms of horizontal positioning)

as for the 720 example, wouldn't you split 24 into 4 and 6 because currently the 2 on the third row is smaller than the 3 and 4 on the fourth

I think it needs some better rules for how to do the splitting

I'd suggest something like "closest divisor pair to the square root"

code-golf number primes permutations integer

well, I already know how i will make the square number thing, so that's all fine

New Main Posts

0

Q: Prime factors buddies

Given an integer N > 1, output all other numbers which prime decompositions have the same digits as the prime decomposition of N. For example, if N = 117, then the output must be [279, 939, 993, 3313, 3331], because 117 = 3 × 3 × 13 therefore, the available digits are 1, 3, 3 and 3 and we hav...

Stewie Griffin

8:05 AM

@MartinEnder Made quite a lot of changes (not changed rules, but the examples and specified the "closest divisor pair to the square root" you suggested) =) You were right, the example was a bit off.

Luis Mendo

@Maltysen Oh, that's a good point, yes

@Dennis Thanks. I see

63 should result in
  63    NOT   63
 /  \        /  \
7    9      3   21
    / \        /  \
   3   3        7    3

@StewieGriffin Something like that. The two 63 examples should be in the same box somehow

@El'endiaStarman To simplify things let's talk about real n-manifolds, let M be such a manifold: M is a subsets (for the sake of simplicity) of R^m where m>=n such that every point has a neighbour hood (in M) that "looks like a piece of R^n"

Same with the 42 examples

Basically we want something that can locally be approximated by a piece of paper.

8:17 AM

@StewieGriffin It still says "Because 3 is smaller than 7"

A soapbubble (the soapy part) is a 2-manifold in R^3 because if you zoom in enough, it looks flat.

But then there are different versions, some require differentiability etc.

But basically we are just "bending" pieces of R^n in another space.

(the real definition is omewhat more technical and involves topological stuff which is just cumbersome, but you get the idea)

@StewieGriffin oh and one thing that (I think) is missing from the spec is how numbers should be placed under a / or \ (especially when they have multiple digits)

"compact" is in the sense of topological compactness, and in R^n this just means that it is closed and bounded.

(a 2-sphere and a catenoid are both 2-manifolds, but only the 2-sphere is bounded and closed, and therefore compact)

          720
         /   \
        /     \
       /       \
      /         \
     24         30
    /  \       /  \
   /    \     /    \
  4      6   5      6
 / \    / \        / \
2   2  2   3      2   3

@StewieGriffin

It seems to me that you want a minimum of two spaces between nodes at every level

Stewie Griffin

@MartinEnder, and @Sherlock9 I'll have a look at your comments and suggestions as soon as I can, but I have to do some paid work now :) Thanks! =)

8:35 AM

@StewieGriffin Bah, who needs money anyway.

Hello

Aww what

No one's on

I'm working on Stewie's trees. I made one for 362880 just to see how messy it might be.

Answer is: quite messy

On 24, two of the 2 branches are two spaces away. Between two nodes with the same parent, yes, you would need three spaces minimum. Between two nodes with ancestors that are higher up, it looks like you have a minimum of two spaces.

muddyfish

9:02 AM

@Fatalize any idea why you're the third suggestion for 'codegolf'?

What

muddyfish

It's a bit weird isn't it?

Yeah, true

Why is fatalize there

Just why?

@muddyfish idk

Also, wat y u use IE ;_;

OK I need help with regex magics

muddyfish

9:12 AM

@zyabin101 you mean why my college uses IE?

@El'endiaStarman Thanks. BURNS INVITATION

It's annoying that invitations exist.

Halp with regex pls

@zyabin101 Then file a feature request with Stack Exchange

wiueygeys golfers

wiueygeys part of golfers

9:16 AM

@Downgoat no, just C + Smalltalk is weird

otherwise Objective-C is good

@TùxCräftîñg wat is wiueygeys?

idk

@muddyfish why your college uses IE? :3

and i was talking about Objective-C++

@muddyfish huuuh no idea

Doesn't show my nickname on my side

9:30 AM

the first part of my square number gen is working

o_O

currently doesn't work for 0 ._.

This can only mean that I am very important in codegolf, obviously

hooray fixed

and the first result is effectively your PPCG account

9:34 AM

wat

ಠ_ಠ

Conspiracy I say

It does it with codegolf but not code golf?

no

it dont with code golf

That's even stranger

vimgolf.com

^ cool

9:42 AM

Too bad I can't have a twitter to play...

play wat?

Play on vimgolf.com

halp school start tomorrow

My only try failed with the account blocked for automated actions.

@TùxCräftîñg which year?

9:44 AM

When I did nothing, just cleared my followed list.

wat

Tuxcrafting confirmed to be a kid

no

(4ème starting on the 21st??? That seems awfully late)

ah i have school by the CNED

New Main Posts

0

Q: Comic Equation for C0FFEE

Many of us have probably seen the mug with 0xC0FFEE printed on it or something like it. A friend of mine had a mug that made an equation out of it: 8476 * 175 = C0FFEE Which is clever because the two hex numbers look like decimal, and it takes a moment to figure out what it's getting at. Howev...

arithmetic hexadecimal

National Centre for Distance Education

9:46 AM

The National Centre for Distance Education (Centre national d'enseignement à distance or Cned in French) is a French public institution under the oversight of the Department of Education dedicated to providing distance learning material. It was created in 1939 and has been providing on-line material since the mid-1990s. The 3000 programs it offers range from kindergarten to university level. In 2006, about 350,000 students were registered, 30,000 living outside France. Of these, approximately 120,000 are higher education students ranging from polytechnic through to masters level. CNED offer the...

hmm ok

we have received the courses only today ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's not even real school then

@NewMainPosts Please make that go away.

@NewMainPosts 1) no winning criteria, 2) how a computer program can make something comic...........