Only if the "active" tab si in view or clicked I presume.

@Dennis Could you please pull Brachylog?

I'm having trouble with typological: programs are WAY too long. I mean, longer than I'd want them to be

gonna need to do something about that

hmmm, I'm considering removing integer i/o

How come?

shortening stuff

but that wouldn't help actually

I would just put them at the end of the command table

Typological is going to have no conditionals, the closest thing will be the greater than command

which just pushes one or zero

hi @Linus

@DestructibleWatermelon hello

Which phrase best describes most of your passwords? - strawpoll.me/11114046

^ nice try NSA

> short but not predictable ("g0phER$")

Er... counts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

I know 7 is not short to code golfers, but..

@Sp3000 not the train

Well I was thinking more the fact that it's somewhat within brute forceable range :P

@Sp3000 updated

Ah, nice

@Sp3000 thanks

hai

Monring

@ReleasingHeliumNuclei hlelo

@LeakyNun hwo yuo diogn

@ReleasingHeliumNuclei ma fnie thnak yuo

@HelkaHomba correcthorsebatterystaple is not very predictable

Pet peeve: Company names that make looking for the real thing a hassle

ಠ_ಠ

WarGamer is a bastard

@TùxCräftîñg I wouldn't bet on that

it have more entropy than l01wùt$&

"correcthorsebatterystaple" itself would be predictable - anything using the same scheme? Well that depends...

1.  1179.159789426135   ShutUpAndTakeMyMoney
2.  1177.720785578452   python_starter
3.  823.982771127313    DumbBot
4.  819.1366394288739   WarGamer

ಠ_ಠ

@Sp3000 I just noticed you're looking more Italian recently

@HelkaHomba fixed

(hopefully someone understands what I just said...)

@HelkaHomba oic

@TùxCräftîñg what?

my stupid 'i buy everything :D' bot is first

@HelkaHomba Nope, I'm inclined to say I cant tell what angle you're taking with that bold statement

@Sp3000 Look a little to the left of your icon

Why are password hashes that can be cracked by brute force considered a big deal?

Assuming you don't recycle the same passwords.

Is it somehow much easier to steal the list of password hashes than the other data at a site?

@TùxCräftîñg really?

yes

I think you must be reading the scoring wrong

it have the most score

either that or the controller is wrong

You're supposed to golf your dollars.

the other bots are not really clever, so...

I think they must have written the scoring code wrong...

seriously though, when a dumbot is winning, that's usually not a good sign

@feersum No... the hash is what's stored, not the password. The hash can be stolen. If it can be cracked, then the password can be stolen... so to speak.

WarGamer is a suicidal entry, DumbBot is really stupid, python_starter idk and ShutUpAndTakeMyMoney buy everything

@Linus Yes I know all that; it doesn't answer my question.

Unless we're considering a case where a company gets hacked but never bothers to issue password resets or even notify the users.

I think it's more the case where a company gets hacked but doesn't find out about it/finds out 3 years later, and in the meanwhile hashes are being traded around

If they never find out that they are compromised, what's to stop the perpetrators' continued access?

@feersum Okay... assuming users play along.

@HelkaHomba wow "3*14ISninE"

@feersum A good password...? Or do you mean continued access into the website's database rather than a user account? I'm not quite sure what the question is, sorry

@ReleasingHeliumNuclei ... mod 11

In the site's database.

Then nothing, but it depends how valuable the data they were able to obtain was in this scenario of ours...?

@Sp3000 Huh? Why does that matter?

@feersum Why are password hashes that can be cracked by brute force considered a big deal? ... because passwords that can be cracked are a big deal. If you can crack it you might as store plain-text password files. Is that what you're asking?

As in, it could be that the hashes are easier to steal - I'd imagine it'd depend on a site-by-site basis?

@Linus That's a good idea; I could look for information on why storing passwords in plain text is bad (for reasons other than password reuse).

@Someone how I run java chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/44660/stock-exchange?

@feersum what do you mean by reuse... two people with the same password, or one person not changing their password as directed, or one person using the same password on another site?

One person using the same password on multiple sites.

@feersum If you use salts it should be harder to crack passwords

@feersum That too, in theory but I don't know how practical that is... are we targeting someone?

I'm not considering the case of hashed but not salted passwords.

@muddyfish oh god ... salts. lets not right now.

@feersum Easier to guess I'd say? I'm not talking stolen hashes. If someone can brute force into your account it's bad news, even if the company can undo any damage.

@Linus what about peppers then?

^

@muddyfish sure... I'm hungry

Can we assume in our scenario that the hashing scheme is perfectly secure but it's the password that's not? :P

(I'm assuming that's what the original question was about)

Same

@Sp3000 then they can get into your account unless secondary authentication

(I think I might wait until I figure out what feersum's question actually means, because I think I'm misunderstanding it...)

My question is, why are users often advised to create passwords which are difficult to brute force?

The expected utility gain from this seems fairly low to me.

So you're less likely to get brute forced?

Of course if you have some sufficiently valuable data somewhere, it could be worthwhile.

Computers are quick. People use the same passwords for simple sites (catvideoshere.com) as yourbank.com

In this scenario, how much do you care about the account? (and how much does the attacker care about the account?)

@muddyfish I see you haven't read the preceding discussion.

Um... I dunno.

@feersum I have. I probably haven't understood it if thats what your saying though

@muddyfish I've mentioned password reuse at least 3 times already.

@feersum I did and didn't really understand it. I think muddy had a decent point

Well I give up. Apparently I don't know how to English.

Hello

I'm back

@feersum I still reckon the value of the account is important here, so here's some food for thought: 1) It could be that the account is valuable to the site's eyes - e.g. a hacked bank account costs the bank to detect fraud/help you recover your account 2) If the account is not valuable to you then you could argue any password is okay since you don't care, but then the question is whether the account is valuable to an attacker (e.g. account impersonation could lead to a reputational cost)

@Maltysen u changed your avatar too

...-2 :P

Oh well

At least it's not worse than my -12

Haha what did you get that for?

u -12?

Oh jeez

@muddyfish There's probably better, but at the least you can do s_B"ATCG" (haven't checked .", etc.)

@Sp3000 The scoring doesn't mention code golf at all

what flavor is ruby regex?

Ummm

I probs should post my logicode interpreter

@muddyfish BTW which characters does your program support? I need to answer a question in the comments and I don't want to break your answer

Also

@muddyfish Hmm I thought the decoder/encoder length had to be counted

^

@βετѧΛєҫαγ it should support the entirety of unicode but I'm not certain

gist.github.com/DerpfacePython/6addb696533aab6aab93cced191434b1 Here is the link to my interpreter

@muddyfish Ah okay, that's fine

@βετѧΛєҫαγ should I modify the score to include encoder+decoder length?

@muddyfish Yes, please

@muddyfish never mind I was blind

@LeakyNun - sounds like we do need to format the binomial tree output

@JonathanAllan then I would rather delete my answer

@LeakyNun any hints on how I can align the `%f'%... strings in my addendum?

@JonathanAllan %9f?

hi

@LeakyNun no effect :(

@JonathanAllan %10f?

@LeakyNun nope. and `%9.f% removes all the decimal places

@JonathanAllan I have no idea then

@DestructibleWatermelon HaI

@LeakyNun OK thanks anyway

OK... has anyone looked at the interpreter yet?

@DerpfacePython I'm taking a look now

I don't really think I get it though

not that it's hard to read, it's just me

Ah

I need to find a way to reduce the length of commands in my language...

What do you mean?

Which language?

My "typological" language

Where is it?

haven't implemented yet

Ah

You mean Eseljik?

no, I kinda just gave up on that one

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

LOL

typological is the name

I gave up on my one (Pyramid) as well

Wait... oh

Post a gist on GH

I was thinking of calling it eloquently, because adverbs are best names for languages

I'll show you a language that infinitely asks for ascii input

(does nothing with it, though)

Well, I think Logicode is going pretty smoothly

| \
|| \
||| \
|||| \
||||| \
|||||| \
||||||| \

But I just feel like 50-odd lines for an interpreter is pretty short

Ah

oh wait, it got rid of trailing spaces

each line has one space at the end, anyway

fixed it so it has the spaces now

@DerpfacePython that just means you have a minimalist language

True

counter=0
instructions=input().split()
instruction_counter=0
Running=True
while len(instructions)>instruction_counter:
    current_instruction=instructions[instruction_counter]
    instruction_counter+=1
    if current_instruction=='+':
        counter+=1
    elif current_instruction[0]=='-':
        if counter:
            counter-=1
        else:
            instruction_counter=int(current_instruction[1:])
    elif current_instruction[0]=='*':
        counter*=int(current_instruction[1:])
    elif current_instruction[0]=='/':

All my language has support for are logic gates and extra circuits

that's a minsky machine thing

Kule

very short

(one register variant)

just trying to illlustrate that short interpreters are ok

Well, my interpreter seems to run pretty smoothly, with no problems

(None that I can see, anyway)

Good!

I should probs change my name to something better

DerpfacePython doesn't cut it anymore

anyway, at this point, a truth machine is waaaay too long, so I need to make a way to shorten the commands

@DerpfacePython is it going to be something chicken related?

@DestructibleWatermelon I'm open to ideas

I'm probably going to change it to the name I use often: Asphexan

"laughingicken surprised"?

@DestructibleWatermelon What is that. Just what.

LOL

I made a SROMG with that phrase in it

(made with a markov text generator)

I can't find it on my computer

Ah

I can get it from an email though

I'll be back with it

oh, and I just found the original right after getting a new copy...

my favourite part is 'I call it "chicken surprised!'

Screw it, my name is now Qwerp-derp.

how about "Rota derp" (predator backwards)

because it has derp in it

Nah m8

ok then

I should probably change the push command or something...

that might free up some space for other commands

Question. What exactly do I have to do to make a custom char set for a language?

hey, it's quiet. I have an idea. How do you think gif is pronounced; its obviously hard g.

soft g

@muddyfish NO

why?

cause god said so?

@muddyfish Is Pyke made in 2016?

Fun fact: P ⊆ NP

@Adnan I started making it in 2016

thanks :)

I wish that search engines accepted symbols

instead of interpreting "⊆ symbol" as "symbol"

nopfunge is pretty cool

I stay well away from anything with funge in its name

No love for brain-flak ;_;

downvotes for rep whoring ;)

@βετѧΛєҫαγ TBH I thought it was a poor choice of name, but it is a pretty good concept

So how exactly do you do anything with it?

well, it's not a usuable language, it's like a turing machine

it doesn't have i/o, but it is turing complete, despite only having the instruction of changing the direction ip pointer, and repeating infinitely

Hm, cool

it's more minimal than a minsky machine

also that alliteration

yay

the parser of my golfing language works

which one?

@miles oo, I'll have to try that

a new golfing language i am making

i named it Ru

link pls

@TùxCräftîñg you don't have to golf the name

;_;

I like how people use the word ruthless, but hardly ever ruth

example code: {α+β}

anonymous function returning the sum of it's arguments

also, weirdest thing about english: suspicious can describe someone being conspicuous, or someone who thinks someone else is conspicuous. ಠ_ಠ

@TùxCräftîñg cool!

do you have a github for it yet?

No linky, no likey

not yet

i am finishing the interpreter

now I wish I had java

Tour is a 2 player game. The board is a toroidal 14x14 grid.

Intial board:

PPP........PPP
PTP........PTP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPP
..............
..............
..............
..............
..............
..............
..............
..............
PPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PTP........PTP
PPP........PPP

why did you display it like that, when you could have had the main part in the middle ಠ_ಠ

^

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

also, I'm confused about whether they move towards each other, or away from each other

actually, I guess that display was reasonable actually

seems like a cool game

there is a thing in html/css/js to play it

@TùxCräftîñg When you see others' screenshots and remember that all of Europe is on the internet...

I should really get JS and java so I can get these things

ಠ_ಠ

you have a web browswer, right?

so you can run it

it use in-browser js

when a post with a caret get's on the star board, that seems pretty weird

@TùxCräftîñg no i use curl

._.

no, browser JS != good

but anyway

!= =

!= is evil

Noo

how do i run this thing again

=== and !== are evil

ಠ_ಠ

how do I run js console

...

@βετѧΛєҫαγ so "1" == 1 is normal?

how do i do it in my browser now

somewhere in your menu there should be 'developer tools' to access the console

@TùxCräftîñg No, "1" == "1" is normal. "1" === 1 is unnatural sorcery

=== is strict ==

== coerce, === is pure equality

which damn dev tools

ok, I found it i think

ok, how do i make it run, then?

run what?

the JS thing

f62tgyhuwgtfyhuaw

how do i run js things in browser

it doesn't do anything...

clone the repo, open a file explorer, go to <your clone dir>/Tour.js, and open index.html

the js file will be included

ok then

@DJMcMayhem Brain-flak is a language in which 1 is longer than 0 and x4 is longer than x3 ...

@TùxCräftîñg it's only evil in evil javascript-crazy-type-language

ik

javascript type system is really weird

does 2+2===4?

yes

2+2==="4" // false, but 2+2=="4" // true

becuz js is weird

I think I found the worst esolang on the site

ಠ_ಠ

you know you've got a crappy esolang when the only thing it has going for it is the first char of the name

well, at least it's not a bf derivative

i would star ^this and vthis but i'm on mobile

Why isn't there a close vote button on esolangs.org??

esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:%E2%84%92ight

@TùxCräftîñg svp

why do this has stars???

I like how its like

@TùxCräftîñg It's all about context...